Shrubfelty – 80 Ele
Angus the Black – 80 War
Adrich – 80 Thief
Angus the Black – 80 War
Adrich – 80 Thief
Signet of Shadows
This game has he slowest movement speed ive ever seen, that happens to me in triple w as well, i use that signet, and still cant break distance with it, i need the shortbow… i move faster in gw1 when cripled than in this game without it…
Adapt or die. I never die.
I’m trying to figure this out. To my knowledge, no other class has a pass run speed bonus. Most get swiftness, obviously, but not a passive/constant.
Why am I consistently unable to ‘catch’ people running away in sPVP while running this signet? Im running the signet AND swiftness on evade and I still can’t catch up?
I feel like greased lightning out of combat…the second someone offers me their back and I go for it its like they’re always JUST out of reach and I have to HS just to close the gap…what gives?
Signet and swiftness does not stack, the bigest movespeed bonus is applied, meaning if you got swiftness+signet its same as just swiftness. So necro with swiftness=you with swiftness+ signet. All that is to it
Former Devils Inside Thief R43
its just the problem of A-net false advertising the class as being the most mobile then they are not…. GS+Swiftness warrior can move across the map in wvwvw faster, Ele with only a few points in air can whoop thief in mobility as well
I would prefer Signet of Shadows speed bonus removed and instead we get Infiltrator’s Arrow to travel a bit more distance, cost 5 initiative (remove the AoE blind) and travel a bit faster. Also some more swiftness boons from traits would be nice.
Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)
I would prefer Signet of Shadows speed bonus removed and instead we get Infiltrator’s Arrow to travel a bit more distance, cost 5 initiative (remove the AoE blind) and travel a bit faster. Also some more swiftness boons from traits would be nice.
lol we need the speed bonus to keep up with classes that are NOT supposed to be the most mobile and we are, why would they remove it.
If anything IA should cost like 1 initiative but have no blind, and we should get traits like ele has in air (15% movement speed when wielding X weapon) and have it stack with Signet of Shadows
Knyx, man, if you don’t think the thief is mobile you’re doing something wrong.
It is as Stin says, they don’t stack.
And in-combat movement speed with swiftness up seems to be about the same as out of combat movement without it.
My suggestion would be to use shadowstep skills to close immediately required amounts of distance. As you’ve stated you do. If you don’t need the distance right now, then your signet is enough in combat to give you an advantage against targets that do not have swiftness up.
The reason swiftness and signets don’t stack is because a thief doesn’t need to take trait points into being faster, whilst an elementalist actually requires certain traits into their air attunement for the stacking speed, and only while they’re in air attunment. A GS warrior has a lot of gap closer abilities which they can use to cover some ground, but a thief can typically do the same with HS and still be faster than a warrior. In fact, a thief has the most gap closer skills in the game with the least amount of cost since all our skills have no cooldowns apart from our utility skills. You can argue that an elementalist is faster in mobility, but no elementalist stays in air attunement to fight and a thief has no problem catching an elementalist with their gap closers. Signet of shadows is just an added bonus to travel around faster
Rangers have a similar signet (always-on passive speed boost), but it’s not nearly as fast (10% IIRC?) Either way I know it made a big difference on my Ranger – faster travel = faster clearing of maps, faster close to MOBs, faster retreats, etc. etc. etc.
Rangers have a similar signet (always-on passive speed boost), but it’s not nearly as fast (10% IIRC?) Either way I know it made a big difference on my Ranger – faster travel = faster clearing of maps, faster close to MOBs, faster retreats, etc. etc. etc.
99% sure that the ranger one did stack with swiftness too unlike the thief SoS. Still think the ranger’s should have been higher than 10% too.
Correct me if I’m wrong but if you use the active blind on that signet the 25% movement buff dissapears until the cooldown is up.
A. I never said thief was not mobile, I said we are not the most mobile. It is a proven fact. Learn to read.
B. Just because we have a weapon ability we can spam to keep up or use to pass a bunch of classes in mobility does not mean it is right. In terms of having weapon abilities that give you movement, cooldowns ones are FAR more viable and useful then the initiative costing ones we have. We need that initiative to initiate the attack once we reach any sort of battle situation, but since we had to waste it on our movement abilities we have to wait for it to recharge unlike a class that just uses 1-2 weapon cooldowns with the same or more mobility and has all the others they can use to instantly engage in the combat situation whereever it may be.
C. Who ever said anything about an ele staying in air to fight, They should be switching attunements so theyd still be using air but not staying in it. Reading comprehension yet again. They would however be staying in it out of combat. Those few points in air make them faster then thief, especially if they are using X/Dagger. and that is not even counting utility slot. You are 100% incorrect if you think a thief built entirely for mobility is going to catch an ele built a little for mobility, unless you only face afks and bots.
D. Reading comprehension fail #3. I never said they DID stack, I said they SHOULD stack if we were to get a movement increasing trait so we can in fact be what A-net said we were, most mobile class.
Signet of Shadows doesn’t work in combat, it’s only use is to travel faster.
Signet of Shadows doesn’t work in combat, it’s only use is to travel faster.
Yes it does work in combat, unless they broke it with the last patch.
If you normally run at 100% out of combat without it it, and 65% in combat.
The 25% bonus in combat is going to be less noticeable. These are just examples
So much misinformation:
Warrior is very mobile, can have perma swiftness which requires a specific (but very usable) setup to attain it. If they want to go nuts with mobility, sword+warhorn and GS is amazing with basically 3 charge abilities and a snare/immob removal
Ele is very mobile, can have perma swiftness with moderate trait/skill investment. But even dagger/dagger (2 charge abilities) is not as mobile as warrior mentioned above. Scepter/dagger has 1 charge and Staff is just not very mobile. Also has a snare/immob removal skill
Thief is very mobile. +25% movement and several teleports. Saying that they can’t use initiative to move around because it keeps you from starting combat at full init is just misleading. Wait until init is full, and use a move skill to travel 900 units every ~5-6 seconds (or a short heartseeker leap every 3 sec if SB is not for you). They also have the best in-combat mobility with several shadowstep abilities and charge abilities, plus flashback.
On initiative vs cooldown:
Neither is always better, but it depends on the cooldown vs init cost. An ele using a 30s cooldown for swiftness means there’s a good chance he’ll miss out on using it for freedom (snare/immob removal) later on. It’s even worse when when using Static Field (40s cooldown) for swiftness blasts, because that ability is often used to initiate combat.
Now, using warrior sword (8s)/GS (~10s and 20s) or ele using Ride the Lightning (15s) has less risk, because the ability is more likely to be up because you can usually se combat coming.
Initiative recharges at 1 pt/sec, so using SB to travel will put you 6s away from full init. Not bad, but init affects all abilities. So if you’re jumped right after porting, it’s a lot rougher than being jumped and having 1 movement skill on cooldown. In general, thieves have it better as long as they have situational awareness.
So does the signets passive bonus just not work in-combat? The boon is displayed, but I always appear to be running at normal speed until I leave combat.
So much misinformation:
Warrior is very mobile, can have perma swiftness which requires a specific (but very usable) setup to attain it. If they want to go nuts with mobility, sword+warhorn and GS is amazing with basically 3 charge abilities and a snare/immob removal
Ele is very mobile, can have perma swiftness with moderate trait/skill investment. But even dagger/dagger (2 charge abilities) is not as mobile as warrior mentioned above. Scepter/dagger has 1 charge and Staff is just not very mobile. Also has a snare/immob removal skill
Thief is very mobile. +25% movement and several teleports. Saying that they can’t use initiative to move around because it keeps you from starting combat at full init is just misleading. Wait until init is full, and use a move skill to travel 900 units every ~5-6 seconds (or a short heartseeker leap every 3 sec if SB is not for you). They also have the best in-combat mobility with several shadowstep abilities and charge abilities, plus flashback.
On initiative vs cooldown:
Neither is always better, but it depends on the cooldown vs init cost. An ele using a 30s cooldown for swiftness means there’s a good chance he’ll miss out on using it for freedom (snare/immob removal) later on. It’s even worse when when using Static Field (40s cooldown) for swiftness blasts, because that ability is often used to initiate combat.
Now, using warrior sword (8s)/GS (~10s and 20s) or ele using Ride the Lightning (15s) has less risk, because the ability is more likely to be up because you can usually se combat coming.
Initiative recharges at 1 pt/sec, so using SB to travel will put you 6s away from full init. Not bad, but init affects all abilities. So if you’re jumped right after porting, it’s a lot rougher than being jumped and having 1 movement skill on cooldown. In general, thieves have it better as long as they have situational awareness.
lol???
Very wrong. an Ele with small spec for mobility will out run ANY warrior even if they have perma swiftness. That is only with Sceptor/dagger too
Noone said they CAN’T use initiative to move, please what is up with people not reading today. I said it is ineffecient and a horrible way to justify any balancing/or considering the class one of the most mobile.
Sure thief is ONE of the most mobile IN combat, but still not THE most. wth is Flashback? People posting like they know what they are talking about but make up skill names…
Here is also a common misconception. Dodging (in GW2) =/= (does not equal) mobility. Dodging = defense. Dodging is a form of defense, not mobility. Stealth is also a form of defense, NOT mobility
A lot of classes have teleports and movement abilities that can be used in AND out of combat. This is yet another reason why cooldowns are better for mobility then initiative. Unless the only thing you do in this game is use utility and elite skills when fighting?…. You are going to be using the initiative for your weapon abilities whilst in combat. To have equal or close to equal mobility as some of the classes mentioned above you will need to use HS/IA, Infiltrators strike/shadowreturn, Shadowstep/shadowreturn. Most of those are requiring initiative.
Again, so a warrior spins and charges in and out of combat much easier as an example (we are talking mobility not defense, so not stealth or dodging), because they are part of the weapon abilities and cooldowns, so while in combat they can use their heavy hitting attacks and their movement ones to get out to repeat the process. Warriors also have far easier access to perma swiftness and swiftness is greater then the 25% from the signet.
A. I never said thief was not mobile, I said we are not the most mobile. It is a proven fact. Learn to read.
B. Just because we have a weapon ability we can spam to keep up or use to pass a bunch of classes in mobility does not mean it is right. In terms of having weapon abilities that give you movement, cooldowns ones are FAR more viable and useful then the initiative costing ones we have. We need that initiative to initiate the attack once we reach any sort of battle situation, but since we had to waste it on our movement abilities we have to wait for it to recharge unlike a class that just uses 1-2 weapon cooldowns with the same or more mobility and has all the others they can use to instantly engage in the combat situation whereever it may be.
C. Who ever said anything about an ele staying in air to fight, They should be switching attunements so theyd still be using air but not staying in it. Reading comprehension yet again. They would however be staying in it out of combat. Those few points in air make them faster then thief, especially if they are using X/Dagger. and that is not even counting utility slot. You are 100% incorrect if you think a thief built entirely for mobility is going to catch an ele built a little for mobility, unless you only face afks and bots.
D. Reading comprehension fail #3. I never said they DID stack, I said they SHOULD stack if we were to get a movement increasing trait so we can in fact be what A-net said we were, most mobile class.
A. We are the most mobile in terms of burst mobility, and we’re competitively the most mobile out of combat as well. Overall, a thief is technically the most mobile class, even more mobile than an elementalist. Frankly, there is no excuse for you to fail in catching up to someone.
B. Using initiative skills as gap closers is a preference, not something that is required to chase your opponents. Our utility skills and steal can close most of the distance between us and the opponent. What you are basically implying here is some classes have better skill mechanics in terms of covering more ground, which is probably true but only for a short period. A thief should have no problem in keeping up with another class, whether he uses his initiatives to chase somebody or not. Also, other classes are required to have distance-covering skills in order to chase/kite.
C. A thief doesn’t have to built entirely for mobility, nor does a thief have to focus their traits on mobility at all. A thief is inherently fast with just its weapon kits and its utility skills. If you’re having trouble chasing an elementalist out of combat, then that means there are already some distance between you and the elementalist that you can’t even force the elementalist into combat. During such situations, you not only have to match your speed to the elementalist, but you also have to close the distance gap between you and the elementalist in order to kill him/her. Given that elementalists are quite fast on air attunement, it’s no surprise that you would think you’re having a hard time chasing an elementalist. However, catching an elementalist is not impossible as long as the distance between you and the elementalist isnt extremely far apart.
D. Stacking mobility on a thief will literally mean a thief can never be caught, nor can you shake a thief off. As much as what you desire a thief to be the fastest class in the game, ArenaNet isn’t about to buff a class that will make it overpowered. Frankly, I don’t think you realize what you’re asking for here.
(edited by Lan.1968)
lol wait but based off what you said, you still get there. meaning with HS you caught up to the player ,therefore you are MORE mobile. you cant just negate HS.
thieves are def the most mobile solo profession. signet, shortbow, shadowstep
in wvw everyone is up to speed if there in a zerg, but again solo the thief is the best roamer
lol wait but based off what you said, you still get there. meaning with HS you caught up to the player ,therefore you are MORE mobile. you cant just negate HS.
thieves are def the most mobile solo profession. signet, shortbow, shadowstep
in wvw everyone is up to speed if there in a zerg, but again solo the thief is the best roamer
Wow no point in even posting full responses anymore when people dont read in this thread. They just imagine what people say and respond to their liking.
Simple facts, I implore you to find a friend and test it both from a “rolling start” and from a stop. Ele will beat the thief, and the thief will be out of initiative. Thief vs Warrior, The thief will burst ahead but warrior will catch up and will be on equal ground with the thief, and the thief will be out of initiative. All in a short time too.
It has nothing to do with what I can or Can’t do, those are the limitations set forth in the game, unless you are admitting to speed hacking?
I have tested out the different in mobility between each classes, and thief has the most speed overall. An elementalist cannot keep up with the continuous speed bursts and gap closers as a thief, and that’s not including steal. Air attunement (with stacking speed) and teleport may seem fast, but only for a short while. A thief can keep up with an elementalist in terms of how much distance both classes have to cover, and more.
As for a thief against a warrior, the warrior actually has the initial advantage in terms of mobility, with their buff and their skills. However, a thief can close that gap just as fast with HS alone. Forget using utilities, a thief doesn’t even need to consider using shadowstep, roll, or even haste to catch a warrior.
I don’t know what kind of thief you’ve been playing, but I think you should reroll if you seriously think a thief needs some kind of mobility buff. What a joke.
I have tested out the different in mobility between each classes, and thief has the most speed overall. An elementalist cannot keep up with the continuous speed bursts and gap closers as a thief, and that’s not including steal. Air attunement (with stacking speed) and teleport may seem fast, but only for a short while. A thief can keep up with an elementalist in terms of how much distance both classes have to cover, and more.
As for a thief against a warrior, the warrior actually has the initial advantage in terms of mobility, with their buff and their skills. However, a thief can close that gap just as fast with HS alone. Forget using utilities, a thief doesn’t even need to consider using shadowstep, roll, or even haste to catch a warrior.
I don’t know what kind of thief you’ve been playing, but I think you should reroll if you seriously think a thief needs some kind of mobility buff. What a joke.
Clearly you need to reroll to a forum for your own class much less a diff game because you did not do that testing. This was done in a BWE and last weekend in the mists. Without a target, the Ele will beat the thief, This is with 30 in acro on the thief, and swiftness built, With the ele S/D and 20 points in air. Actually testing it before you claim, will show different results then what you again, claim. I never said anything about a buff. Illiteracy must be a more common thing these days, perhaps failure in the Public school system?
I was just noting the differences and advertising(or falsified ones).
So does the signets passive bonus just not work in-combat? The boon is displayed, but I always appear to be running at normal speed until I leave combat.
Typically any passive signet bonuses go away while the signet is active and in cool-down. There are actually some Traits (in Ranger I know of for sure, maybe other classes too) that specifically grant the passive bonus AS WELL AS the active at the same time, but that’s not the default behavior (AFAIK).
Note, Signet of Shadows DOES have an active effect (according to the wiki), specifically Area Blind when invoked. I’d assume the speed bonus drops while the signet is active and in cooldown – can someone confirm?
So does the signets passive bonus just not work in-combat? The boon is displayed, but I always appear to be running at normal speed until I leave combat.
Typically any passive signet bonuses go away while the signet is active and in cool-down. There are actually some Traits (in Ranger I know of for sure, maybe other classes too) that specifically grant the passive bonus AS WELL AS the active at the same time, but that’s not the default behavior (AFAIK).
Note, Signet of Shadows DOES have an active effect (according to the wiki), specifically Area Blind when invoked. I’d assume the speed bonus drops while the signet is active and in cooldown – can someone confirm?
It does drop when you activate it. As long as the signet is off cooldown, the speed bonus is applied in AND out of combat just like swiftness
So tell me why you would test mobility in a non-practical situation, despite having actually done the test or not? To tell me an elementalist is fast than a thief without a target literally means a thief loses one, if not two with Sword, abilities to cover more ground. If you want to compare class mobility against one another, you should take into all accounts on what makes them faster and not set limitations. Not to mention an elementalist don’t start off with 25 stacks of passive speed increase as well, so to tell me a thief cannot exceed in terms of speed against an elementalist would mean an elementalist would have no problems running away from a thief. If you’re getting worked up because I’m telling you your statement is invalid, then I’d suggest not posting at all.
@Knyx comes with some good points and “another point of view” though TL;DR
To say that they are not mobile would be wrong.. the most mobile? well can be discussed.. in my experience no other than other thieves can catch me.. not even engineers with perma swiftness or warriors with leap and swiftness.. and since I can shadow step out of immobilization well no problemos there.
Both thieves and elementalists can run permaswiftness, but thieves can shadowstep forward far more often between utility SS and IA, neither of which require a target. If targets are available, it obviously becomes no-contest due to the extra cheap closers offered by steal and IF. So, no, there isn’t really any profession that can match thieves in flat-out straight line speed or in agility within a confined space.
That said, your average thief has to do nearly nothing to get mobility competitive with the mobility offered by other professions actually pushing for it heavily.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)
It does work in combat. And if you are running after someone you are doing it wrong…SB 5, Steal, or gods forbid HS…among others.
So tell me why you would test mobility in a non-practical situation, despite having actually done the test or not? To tell me an elementalist is fast than a thief without a target literally means a thief loses one, if not two with Sword, abilities to cover more ground. If you want to compare class mobility against one another, you should take into all accounts on what makes them faster and not set limitations. Not to mention an elementalist don’t start off with 25 stacks of passive speed increase as well, so to tell me a thief cannot exceed in terms of speed against an elementalist would mean an elementalist would have no problems running away from a thief. If you’re getting worked up because I’m telling you your statement is invalid, then I’d suggest not posting at all.
That is the point I was making. Without a target. I can’t believe I am the only one who sees it as an issue that the class is not the most mobile WITHOUT having to spend initiative. I was also showing how initiative is actually a curse in terms of mobility compared to a cooldown because since naturally all our weapon abilities require it, Lets say if a thief and an ele were racing to get to the enemy group. The ele will win and have most of his attunement abilities off cooldown even in air. Where as the thief, trying to keep up with the ele will have wasted all of his initiative an will have to wait before being able to engage with anything other then a utility skill/auto attack or elite.
So this thread (in true forum fashion!) got derailed. Want to try and bring it back. So glossing over the replies the one that caught my eye was “It was working till they broke it last patch” so are you saying that, in combat, my +25% is no longer applying? Which would make perfect sense why I seem to be on level run-speed with my targets now.
Additionally, does anyone know specifically what the % addition to runspeed Swiftness applies? 5? 10? 15%?
In my black and white world…a thief running signet of shadows should always (due to the size of the bonus – 25%) be faster than any other class. Im not talking about heartseekers, shadowstep, etc…just flat run speed. If thats the case, and if Swiftness is ~25%, i should always be able to catch my target so I’m trying to figure out why I cant and/or if the Signet is even worth using anymore.
Shrubfelty – 80 Ele
Angus the Black – 80 War
Adrich – 80 Thief
Angus the Black – 80 War
Adrich – 80 Thief
swiftness is 33% AND on ele works better i think 40% or sth.
Former Devils Inside Thief R43
So this thread (in true forum fashion!) got derailed. Want to try and bring it back. So glossing over the replies the one that caught my eye was “It was working till they broke it last patch” so are you saying that, in combat, my +25% is no longer applying? Which would make perfect sense why I seem to be on level run-speed with my targets now.
Additionally, does anyone know specifically what the % addition to runspeed Swiftness applies? 5? 10? 15%?
In my black and white world…a thief running signet of shadows should always (due to the size of the bonus – 25%) be faster than any other class. Im not talking about heartseekers, shadowstep, etc…just flat run speed. If thats the case, and if Swiftness is ~25%, i should always be able to catch my target so I’m trying to figure out why I cant and/or if the Signet is even worth using anymore.
Nope because the signet as you said is 25%, swiftness is 33% and does not stack, many classes also have an easier time getting perma swiftness then thief.
Is auto-running really a measure of speed in the game? You might as well say that guardians have worse defense than anyone but ele or thief…assuming you’re using no abilities or traits and just standing there getting hit!
Flashback abilities are where you can port to a preset location. Thief sword #2 and some mesmer abilities. ie, you teleport to and then flashback. They can be very handy in combat…or just running around town.
Assuming other classes just instantly get perma swiftness is not conducive to discussion, just like assuming all thieves have +25% move speed. It costs the thief 1 util slot, just like swiftness costs other classes cooldowns and/or traits.
For example, to blast out swiftness on an ele, they have to use a 40s cooldown lightning field…not to AE stun, but just to run faster for 10 seconds. Then a 30s cooldown for another 10s of swiftness, then use a glyph or signet and attunement swap to fill in the rest of the time, depending on +% boon duration. It’s not hard, but it does have to be done…and it limits your combat options.
To get perma swiftness on a warrior, they need to use Signet of Rage and warhorn (a utility weapon with no attacks)
Other classes have similar tradeoffs
Swiftness is 33%, up to 40% if you use 6 Superior Runes of Speed.
It’s the thief active abilities that make them faster than anyone else, especially in combat.
Is auto-running really a measure of speed in the game? You might as well say that guardians have worse defense than anyone but ele or thief…assuming you’re using no abilities or traits and just standing there getting hit!
Flashback abilities are where you can port to a preset location. Thief sword #2 and some mesmer abilities. ie, you teleport to and then flashback. They can be very handy in combat…or just running around town.
Assuming other classes just instantly get perma swiftness is not conducive to discussion, just like assuming all thieves have +25% move speed. It costs the thief 1 util slot, just like swiftness costs other classes cooldowns and/or traits.
For example, to blast out swiftness on an ele, they have to use a 40s cooldown lightning field…not to AE stun, but just to run faster for 10 seconds. Then a 30s cooldown for another 10s of swiftness, then use a glyph or signet and attunement swap to fill in the rest of the time, depending on +% boon duration. It’s not hard, but it does have to be done…and it limits your combat options.
To get perma swiftness on a warrior, they need to use Signet of Rage and warhorn (a utility weapon with no attacks)
Other classes have similar tradeoffs
Swiftness is 33%, up to 40% if you use 6 Superior Runes of Speed.
It’s the thief active abilities that make them faster than anyone else, especially in combat.
It is not called Flashback… it is called Shadow Return
So tell me why you would test mobility in a non-practical situation, despite having actually done the test or not? To tell me an elementalist is fast than a thief without a target literally means a thief loses one, if not two with Sword, abilities to cover more ground. If you want to compare class mobility against one another, you should take into all accounts on what makes them faster and not set limitations. Not to mention an elementalist don’t start off with 25 stacks of passive speed increase as well, so to tell me a thief cannot exceed in terms of speed against an elementalist would mean an elementalist would have no problems running away from a thief. If you’re getting worked up because I’m telling you your statement is invalid, then I’d suggest not posting at all.
That is the point I was making. Without a target. I can’t believe I am the only one who sees it as an issue that the class is not the most mobile WITHOUT having to spend initiative. I was also showing how initiative is actually a curse in terms of mobility compared to a cooldown because since naturally all our weapon abilities require it, Lets say if a thief and an ele were racing to get to the enemy group. The ele will win and have most of his attunement abilities off cooldown even in air. Where as the thief, trying to keep up with the ele will have wasted all of his initiative an will have to wait before being able to engage with anything other then a utility skill/auto attack or elite.
Frankly, I’d have no problem with the mobility/initiative cost trade-off. Lets just say a thief becomes the fastest in and out of combat, while still being able to perform their main skills without any problems; so how do you propose to ever outrun a thief in spvp or pvp in general? If we’re so fast to the point where other classes have no choice but to actually fight us, even when they know they have a high probability of losing, then I don’t see how a thief can be kited or chased.
So tell me why you would test mobility in a non-practical situation, despite having actually done the test or not? To tell me an elementalist is fast than a thief without a target literally means a thief loses one, if not two with Sword, abilities to cover more ground. If you want to compare class mobility against one another, you should take into all accounts on what makes them faster and not set limitations. Not to mention an elementalist don’t start off with 25 stacks of passive speed increase as well, so to tell me a thief cannot exceed in terms of speed against an elementalist would mean an elementalist would have no problems running away from a thief. If you’re getting worked up because I’m telling you your statement is invalid, then I’d suggest not posting at all.
That is the point I was making. Without a target. I can’t believe I am the only one who sees it as an issue that the class is not the most mobile WITHOUT having to spend initiative. I was also showing how initiative is actually a curse in terms of mobility compared to a cooldown because since naturally all our weapon abilities require it, Lets say if a thief and an ele were racing to get to the enemy group. The ele will win and have most of his attunement abilities off cooldown even in air. Where as the thief, trying to keep up with the ele will have wasted all of his initiative an will have to wait before being able to engage with anything other then a utility skill/auto attack or elite.
Frankly, I’d have no problem with the mobility/initiative cost trade-off. Lets just say a thief becomes the fastest in and out of combat, while still being able to perform their main skills without any problems; so how do you propose to ever outrun a thief in spvp or pvp in general? If we’re so fast to the point where other classes have no choice but to actually fight us, even when they know they have a high probability of losing, then I don’t see how a thief can be kited or chased.
Immobilizes, Fears, Stuns, Cripples, Knockdowns, and general condition spamming.
I suggested in a VERY long thread how to rework Thief into closer comparison to a Necro then a Warrior in terms of their main forms of damage, but the responses were all against it without giving any supporting evidence why so I let the thread die.
As an example from that thread (remember this is taken out of a huge context):
Changes to D/D
Backstab:
Front now does a plethora of conditions
Back now has the ability to reach same damage potential as current but its damage is now based off a bonus: 10% damage per condition on the target. Base damage altered
Each hit in #1 chain does a condition. 1st does 5s duration poison, 2nd does 5s Vulnerability, 3rd does 8s duration burning
Heartseeker now works like Backstabs back attack, Except it is greyed out till target reaches 40% hp. (Damage is increased based on how many conditions target has, and base damage altered to reflect that) with its potential damage the same as live
With weapons setup more like that, It requires the thief be in combat just a small amount more, because there is actual player based skill setup (not cooldown based), which would balance out the fact if we were given our maximum mobility withoutrequiring initiative