Guild Wars 2

Before you read – this is from a PvP perspective, and isn’t intended to knock any of the classes mentioned.

You’ve consistently nerfed thieves across the board.

You removed their instant burst because it was “too strong”, then eventually gave similar capabilities to ele’s.

You removed their sustain/burst by nerfing S/D, but had no issue giving rangers the equivalent of a ranged Backstab that can sustain pressure with their auto attack.

You’ve consistently nerfed access to our only defensive abilities (Stealth, blind, evade), with no practically useful buffs to take their place.

When the game was released, it was fine that thieves had awful sustain, no protection/stability/blocks/immune skills, the lowest HP pool, and a design which made any spec other than burst a losing gambit both in playstyle and mathematically.

That is no longer the case – you’ve nerfed thieves to the point where something needs to change. We can’t reliably use our skills for damage (lol, FS is so telegraphed anyone could dodge/block it) or for defense (literally any spec can no just stand in BP and still maul a thief now). Damage that was considered “Too good” for thieves to have (despite their lack of sustain skills) now exists on other classes (who have the option to go immune, block, and better healing options). Stealth is a joke (for defensive purposes) in SPvP and TPvP by your design, making 1 of our entire traitlines borderline useless in that game mode.

It’s time to sit down and figure out what you want thieves to do – it clearly isn’t burst damage. Why bring a D/P glass thief to an AoE fest point fight, who has to care about positioning and what to do after his BS lands when a ranger can safely deliver that damage from half a battlefield away? Why run D/D (A notably UP set which has a Condi based skill right in the middle of what is a clearly a power/crit set) for that instant burst when an Ele can do it with better options for sustain afterwards?

What is it you want thieves to do, besides generate misinformed forum QQ?

evilapprentice.6379:

Before you read – this is from a PvP perspective, and isn’t intended to knock any of the classes mentioned.

You’ve consistently nerfed thieves across the board.

You removed their instant burst because it was “too strong”, then eventually gave similar capabilities to ele’s.

You removed their sustain/burst by nerfing S/D, but had no issue giving rangers the equivalent of a ranged Backstab that can sustain pressure with their auto attack.

You’ve consistently nerfed access to our only defensive abilities (Stealth, blind, evade), with no practically useful buffs to take their place.

When the game was released, it was fine that thieves had awful sustain, no protection/stability/blocks/immune skills, the lowest HP pool, and a design which made any spec other than burst a losing gambit both in playstyle and mathematically.

That is no longer the case – you’ve nerfed thieves to the point where something needs to change. We can’t reliably use our skills for damage (lol, FS is so telegraphed anyone could dodge/block it) or for defense (literally any spec can no just stand in BP and still maul a thief now). Damage that was considered “Too good” for thieves to have (despite their lack of sustain skills) now exists on other classes (who have the option to go immune, block, and better healing options). Stealth is a joke (for defensive purposes) in SPvP and TPvP by your design, making 1 of our entire traitlines borderline useless in that game mode.

It’s time to sit down and figure out what you want thieves to do – it clearly isn’t burst damage. Why bring a D/P glass thief to an AoE fest point fight, who has to care about positioning and what to do after his BS lands when a ranger can safely deliver that damage from half a battlefield away? Why run D/D (A notably UP set which has a Condi based skill right in the middle of what is a clearly a power/crit set) for that instant burst when an Ele can do it with better options for sustain afterwards?

What is it you want thieves to do, besides generate misinformed forum QQ?

Buff or change dancing dagger
make revealed duration the same as WvW
speed up sword auto-chain by 10% or 10% damage.
Fix the ungodly amount of teleport bugs.

Thief fixed

Cam Ron.4170:

evilapprentice.6379:

Before you read – this is from a PvP perspective, and isn’t intended to knock any of the classes mentioned.

You’ve consistently nerfed thieves across the board.

You removed their instant burst because it was “too strong”, then eventually gave similar capabilities to ele’s.

You removed their sustain/burst by nerfing S/D, but had no issue giving rangers the equivalent of a ranged Backstab that can sustain pressure with their auto attack.

You’ve consistently nerfed access to our only defensive abilities (Stealth, blind, evade), with no practically useful buffs to take their place.

When the game was released, it was fine that thieves had awful sustain, no protection/stability/blocks/immune skills, the lowest HP pool, and a design which made any spec other than burst a losing gambit both in playstyle and mathematically.

That is no longer the case – you’ve nerfed thieves to the point where something needs to change. We can’t reliably use our skills for damage (lol, FS is so telegraphed anyone could dodge/block it) or for defense (literally any spec can no just stand in BP and still maul a thief now). Damage that was considered “Too good” for thieves to have (despite their lack of sustain skills) now exists on other classes (who have the option to go immune, block, and better healing options). Stealth is a joke (for defensive purposes) in SPvP and TPvP by your design, making 1 of our entire traitlines borderline useless in that game mode.

It’s time to sit down and figure out what you want thieves to do – it clearly isn’t burst damage. Why bring a D/P glass thief to an AoE fest point fight, who has to care about positioning and what to do after his BS lands when a ranger can safely deliver that damage from half a battlefield away? Why run D/D (A notably UP set which has a Condi based skill right in the middle of what is a clearly a power/crit set) for that instant burst when an Ele can do it with better options for sustain afterwards?

What is it you want thieves to do, besides generate misinformed forum QQ?

Buff or change dancing dagger
make revealed duration the same as WvW
speed up sword auto-chain by 10% or 10% damage.
Fix the ungodly amount of teleport bugs.

Thief fixed

Not to be rude, but none of these changes address the underlying issue with thief design. We don’t need minor buffs to specific skills, we need Anet to decide what exactly it is they want thief to do, then make changes to support that role.

evilapprentice.6379:

Cam Ron.4170:

evilapprentice.6379:

Before you read – this is from a PvP perspective, and isn’t intended to knock any of the classes mentioned.

You’ve consistently nerfed thieves across the board.

You removed their instant burst because it was “too strong”, then eventually gave similar capabilities to ele’s.

You removed their sustain/burst by nerfing S/D, but had no issue giving rangers the equivalent of a ranged Backstab that can sustain pressure with their auto attack.

You’ve consistently nerfed access to our only defensive abilities (Stealth, blind, evade), with no practically useful buffs to take their place.

When the game was released, it was fine that thieves had awful sustain, no protection/stability/blocks/immune skills, the lowest HP pool, and a design which made any spec other than burst a losing gambit both in playstyle and mathematically.

That is no longer the case – you’ve nerfed thieves to the point where something needs to change. We can’t reliably use our skills for damage (lol, FS is so telegraphed anyone could dodge/block it) or for defense (literally any spec can no just stand in BP and still maul a thief now). Damage that was considered “Too good” for thieves to have (despite their lack of sustain skills) now exists on other classes (who have the option to go immune, block, and better healing options). Stealth is a joke (for defensive purposes) in SPvP and TPvP by your design, making 1 of our entire traitlines borderline useless in that game mode.

It’s time to sit down and figure out what you want thieves to do – it clearly isn’t burst damage. Why bring a D/P glass thief to an AoE fest point fight, who has to care about positioning and what to do after his BS lands when a ranger can safely deliver that damage from half a battlefield away? Why run D/D (A notably UP set which has a Condi based skill right in the middle of what is a clearly a power/crit set) for that instant burst when an Ele can do it with better options for sustain afterwards?

What is it you want thieves to do, besides generate misinformed forum QQ?

Buff or change dancing dagger
make revealed duration the same as WvW
speed up sword auto-chain by 10% or 10% damage.
Fix the ungodly amount of teleport bugs.

Thief fixed

Not to be rude, but none of these changes address the underlying issue with thief design. We don’t need minor buffs to specific skills, we need Anet to decide what exactly it is they want thief to do, then make changes to support that role.

that wasn’t rude, its a good discussion. I think we’re supposed to be high-single target damage dealers using dodges/teleports for defense. Our biggest advantages over other classes in PvP is our mobility. Perhaps they see us as the backcapping roamers that zip around the map and help when needed, and that is how I try to play it. I feel that in solo q, decision making is more important for a thief than any other class (we can act on it and get to where we think we need to be the quickest).

I think we need to wait a little longer before we call the thief underpowered (and im the guy that made a thread titles “thief is now worst class in pvp”, but that was before the steal bug fix ad before I played a lot on it)

as far as the new classes we’re seeing? zerk LB rangers are sooo easy for my thief to kill (teleports op), but they give my necro nightmares. More medi guards sucks tho. I only play theif and necro, and while necro is really strong, my thief feels in a better spot for the simple fact that there are like 3 zerker rangers per team every game. Thief got nerfed but the soloQ meta got buffed nicely for them.

My biggest complaint about the Thief class is and always has been that Stealth is not well implemented. In some situations it’s overpowered to the point that it makes Thieves seem like an overpowered class, but most of the time its defensive utility is very poor and completely fails to justify why Thieves have such horrible attrition.

more defensive options outside of stealth -> thieves won’t rely on stealth -> less stealth spam that everyone complains about

more dmg options besides backstab -> thieves will rely less on stealth -> less QQ about stealth

thieves played non stealth build relying on evades (because franky there is NOTHING ELSE besides stealth or evade for defensives) -> people complained about not being able to hit thieves

anet decided to go lazy way and simply nerfed everything thieves had w/o bothering to adress any bugs and issues that been plaguing the class since launch (this patch is particually the worst due to still not fixed steal bug) and even think about giving thieves any alternatives

creativity is definitely not strengh of the balancing team

Einlanzer.1627:

My biggest complaint about the Thief class is and always has been that Stealth is not well implemented. In some situations it’s overpowered to the point that it makes Thieves seem like an overpowered class, but most of the time its defensive utility is very poor and completely fails to justify why Thieves have such horrible attrition.

good point and this might be the crux of it. stealth is great i WvW, but in CONQUEST it’s obviously weaker…. which is why its strange revealed is longer in pvp than WvW….. should be the other way around if different at all. if there really are new game modes coming that will definitely help stealth in pvp

I have always understood the thief situation as, thieves in a good player’s hand are medium to strong but that same player in any other class is very strong.

I cannot back up this statement as I have only played thief with the exception of level up other toons to 80 and leaving them on the shelf.

Einlanzer.1627:

My biggest complaint about the Thief class is and always has been that Stealth is not well implemented. In some situations it’s overpowered to the point that it makes Thieves seem like an overpowered class, but most of the time its defensive utility is very poor and completely fails to justify why Thieves have such horrible attrition.

The problem is with stealth is the WvW and PvP split.

Going 30 points into SA and just sitting in stealth in WvW can be very powerful. There’s no capture point you have to sit on to win, and 30 sa stealth can do so much for you that the game’s design gives you overwhelming incentive to sit in stealth until you’ve reaped all the benefits. This would never fly in PvP due to the capture point format.

I had assumed that Anet had taken all of this into account when they designed the game, but clearly they have not. For some mindboggling reason Revealed was increased to 4s in PvP, but left at 3s in WvW. None of the “Sit in stealth for more benefits” SA traits have been changed, even though fantastic options for doing so have been offered from the community multiple times.

When the finally fixed S/D (after about a year of the game existing, iirc), thieves rejoiced! A way to stay alive outside of stealth, how wonderful! Then anet spent the next 3-4 patches nerfing that kitten into oblivion, because timing skills is hard. It’s funny, I’ve never had a problem with an S/D thief, on any class I’ve played thanks to my experience as an S/D thief, but I guess you can’t expect your playerbase to try.

Regardless of my tangents, it all points to the fact that Anet does not have a clear vision of what they want thief to do. They might have had one when the game was first released, but forum QQ fueled nerf’s combined with the few needed changes (HS % scaling) they’ve made to thief has ruined it, and they don’t seem eager to figure out how to fix it.

Edit: When they proposed the changes to IS/IR, they ignored the input of every top player. When they redesigned Hard to catch, they ignored literally every thief telling them how awful that trait was going to be. Their AR changes proudly toted “35% more contribution from healing power” – sounds big, right? It worked out to 1 additional Health per init spent per 100 healing power. Anyone with a functioning brainstem can see how that claim was disingenuous. 35% sounds huge! 1% more contribution from healing power is a joke – this (combined with the init changes) is why AR was bumped up to GM tier, and it clearly wasnt worth it.

Cam Ron.4170:

evilapprentice.6379:

Cam Ron.4170:

evilapprentice.6379:

Before you read – this is from a PvP perspective, and isn’t intended to knock any of the classes mentioned.

You’ve consistently nerfed thieves across the board.

You removed their instant burst because it was “too strong”, then eventually gave similar capabilities to ele’s.

You removed their sustain/burst by nerfing S/D, but had no issue giving rangers the equivalent of a ranged Backstab that can sustain pressure with their auto attack.

You’ve consistently nerfed access to our only defensive abilities (Stealth, blind, evade), with no practically useful buffs to take their place.

When the game was released, it was fine that thieves had awful sustain, no protection/stability/blocks/immune skills, the lowest HP pool, and a design which made any spec other than burst a losing gambit both in playstyle and mathematically.

That is no longer the case – you’ve nerfed thieves to the point where something needs to change. We can’t reliably use our skills for damage (lol, FS is so telegraphed anyone could dodge/block it) or for defense (literally any spec can no just stand in BP and still maul a thief now). Damage that was considered “Too good” for thieves to have (despite their lack of sustain skills) now exists on other classes (who have the option to go immune, block, and better healing options). Stealth is a joke (for defensive purposes) in SPvP and TPvP by your design, making 1 of our entire traitlines borderline useless in that game mode.

It’s time to sit down and figure out what you want thieves to do – it clearly isn’t burst damage. Why bring a D/P glass thief to an AoE fest point fight, who has to care about positioning and what to do after his BS lands when a ranger can safely deliver that damage from half a battlefield away? Why run D/D (A notably UP set which has a Condi based skill right in the middle of what is a clearly a power/crit set) for that instant burst when an Ele can do it with better options for sustain afterwards?

What is it you want thieves to do, besides generate misinformed forum QQ?

Buff or change dancing dagger
make revealed duration the same as WvW
speed up sword auto-chain by 10% or 10% damage.
Fix the ungodly amount of teleport bugs.

Thief fixed

Not to be rude, but none of these changes address the underlying issue with thief design. We don’t need minor buffs to specific skills, we need Anet to decide what exactly it is they want thief to do, then make changes to support that role.

that wasn’t rude, its a good discussion. I think we’re supposed to be high-single target damage dealers using dodges/teleports for defense. Our biggest advantages over other classes in PvP is our mobility. Perhaps they see us as the backcapping roamers that zip around the map and help when needed, and that is how I try to play it. I feel that in solo q, decision making is more important for a thief than any other class (we can act on it and get to where we think we need to be the quickest).

I think we need to wait a little longer before we call the thief underpowered (and im the guy that made a thread titles “thief is now worst class in pvp”, but that was before the steal bug fix ad before I played a lot on it)

as far as the new classes we’re seeing? zerk LB rangers are sooo easy for my thief to kill (teleports op), but they give my necro nightmares. More medi guards sucks tho. I only play theif and necro, and while necro is really strong, my thief feels in a better spot for the simple fact that there are like 3 zerker rangers per team every game. Thief got nerfed but the soloQ meta got buffed nicely for them.

It’s not as if thief is unplayable, it’s just obviously the inferior choice at the moment.

The absolute only thing thief does better than other classes at the moment is mobility. While they’re still the best, other classes can come close, and considering the current plethora of weaknesses in thief setups, the slightly better mobility isn’t that important anymore.

How useful is a class that can get to a fight quick and then struggle to contribute? How useful is a class that can teleport into combat quickly, but then can’t defend themselves in said combat? Here’s a hint Anet, not very much.

Everyone would rather have 2 necros or 2 warriors or 2 engis or 2 of anything expect for 2 thieves in Spvp.

Azawrath.7304:

Everyone would rather have 2 necros or 2 warriors or 2 engis or 2 of anything expect for 2 thieves in Spvp.

as a thief/necro player I always hope for guards engis on my team. and I agree thiefs may be my least faorite to see in 2’s, but I love 1 good thief on the team

Cam Ron.4170:

Azawrath.7304:

Everyone would rather have 2 necros or 2 warriors or 2 engis or 2 of anything expect for 2 thieves in Spvp.

as a thief/necro player I always hope for guards engis on my team. and I agree thiefs may be my least faorite to see in 2’s, but I love 1 good thief on the team

IMO it just shows you how effective the thief is. You only need 1 good thief and that’s it, after that the effectiveness of the thief starts to drop.

Nice post!!!

YEA I AGREE WITH IT!!

Anet, sit and think!

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s not as if thief is unplayable, it’s just obviously the inferior choice at the moment.

The absolute only thing thief does better than other classes at the moment is mobility. While they’re still the best, other classes can come close, and considering the current plethora of weaknesses in thief setups, the slightly better mobility isn’t that important anymore.

How useful is a class that can get to a fight quick and then struggle to contribute? How useful is a class that can teleport into combat quickly, but then can’t defend themselves in said combat? Here’s a hint Anet, not very much.

Pretty much this.

I’ve been on my D/F (and staff) ele for the past couple of days, and I have to say, the only thing that thief really feels ok at now is bursting me down if I was already at half health, fighting someone else. Even then, it was only really dangerous if I was locked out of earth for invulnerability and condi-cleansing.

The condi uptime and burst is really high right now. Ranger and mesmer burst is also pretty high right now. I worry about about a stream of arrows coming in for 4-7 k now much more than the thief desperately trying to stay in close combat with me with all the gap creators/walls on my staff.

I don’t even think ranger is OP at this point, I think everything around thief got buffed, leaving it behind.

Since anet doesn’t want thieves to be high-damage assassins, why not focus on another point many RPG thieves have: Agility. We have high mobility, mediocre burst but little to none sustain outside of stealth (which is either used to run away or land backstabs).
Simply give thieves more dodges and evades. replace d/d 3 or d 4 by some dodge, give pistol a roll backwards while shooting or something. i’d love something in this direction. I’m okay with all classes having same access of damage, just give us something that allows us to deliver that damage as long as other classes.

(maybe irrelevent for this topic, but a dual pistol 3 skill change would be cool too. like it would be a skill that allows you to fire as long as you pressed the button, consuming X initiative per second, for the sake of continous damage nuking. y’know, for the sake of build diversity)

Here’s hoping they see this thread, I really like some of these ideas.

The pattern has been established for some time now: Every 3 or 4 months I see my build mysteriously nerfed in some way. When I research to find out why my build is worse off than it was the day before, the answer is usually this: A minority of PvP players are running a new meta that somebody considers too powerful. In response, Anet nerfs a skill or trait in my decidedly non-meta build (I never play meta).

My question is, “Why do a handful of meta players in PvP get to dictate ‘balance’ patches for the every player in the game, be they WvW, PvE, or non-meta PvP?”

With respect S/D thieves especially, what made FS/LS so OP even with the meta? FS has a huge tell and good players will know when to dodge. Don’t get me wrong, I still like my S/D thief, but it’s not like I running around owning everybody in PvP with this build to begin with.

In summary yeah, I agree with the OP that Anet seems to have no vision for the thief except ’We must react when non-thief PvP-ers complain about the thief."

Uhh, I hate to be negative but it really is frustrating to see them chip away at a class that was so specialized to begin with.

Peace to all players and Anet, thanks for reading.

I can say that thief S/D in 1v1 can kill every class, but if it Engi or Celestial Ele you can win ONLY IF enemy will makes mistake, on other hand it just looks like super long fight where thief is surviving.

I played vs celestial elementalist and after 15 min fighting nobody down!!!
Thief lost burst!

Most of all thief’s traits, skills, a few weapon skills just ILLUSION OF CHOICE (this is rubbish ).

Now if you won somebody enemy starts cry how lame you played because evaded all attacks, but we have only evades. Thief class could removed and it will not be a problem for WvW, PvP and PvE.

Why play thief take experiance , training, practice if ( ofc thx Anet pvp servers lagging) 1 skill lagg or little delay and your perfect gameplay, (right dodge and rotations skill etc) ownd.
After 1 mistake ofc if stay alive:D thief runs away or Shadow Refuge and must wait CD and initiative regenerations it takes a lot of time. Enemy already heal and recharged all skills , and thief open combat from hide with hopefulness to win ( if play amazingly perfect) IS IT NORMAL???

One mistake , one wrong dodge and you are deadman!

Who is thief?

Maybe delet this class and create a normal standart Assassin , Ninja, Rogue class.
Burst dmg this is so sweet !!!

One more sad thing this is our OP short bow ! Yeahh

Good skill only Disabling Shot.

Cluster bomb range pfff… well you know, but cluster bomb speed this is fantastic LoL.
In range only autoattak the best way deal dmg. Evade cluster on range more that 100 can every new play or just run away from it. The main dmg you deal this is Cluster but in close range:D SB not mele.

After patch Choiking Gas . It was special to nerf us, but why?
Ofc now you can use Basilisk Venom + Choiking Gas while enemy block but it is horrible.

Traits.
Thief has 2 offensive/ dmg trait line DA and SA.
DA has MUG on minor.
SA has nothing interesting!!!
Executioner? really ? Without it one HS will be enough to finished enemy!
Hiddent Killer ??? For WvW yea not for sPvP!

I can say and say and say about things which are confused me but I stopped.
I dont fell that Anet interested in this topic

I think ANET is trying to remove thief players slowly. They don’t like their own class that they created.

i think it was a masterpiece

there was a few good nerfs but they went way over board
it is a low hp class . small changes make big differences

they nerfed the class with out compensation ….and let things grow around it with out much control

what could be a easy problem to fix will only grow and be tougher to fix if they keep this up

in spvp thief become to useless class, so weak, no survivability , not enough damage. The same time necro, rangers, warriors, engi, guards faceroll on keyboard without any problems…

I think the problem with thieves after patch is now every other class can do what thief can do, but better. Elementalists have high mobility, and can spike just as fast as a thief can (faster most of the time) and have access to more defensive skills. Rangers, Engineers, Necros, DPS Guard and good Warriors hard counter us on any build we decide to play. Especially with the shift towards AI builds from Anet (buffing spirit weapons, leaving turrets (almost) and minion master as is, mesmer PU) excelling as a thief in pvp will only get harder from here on out. But aside from the qq, give it a month or so and someone will find a strong build again. (Personally, I am starting to use the old EU panic strike meta, 60206, which now seems to be coming back into play on NA)

Also: If Anet could realize that useless traits are useless and buffing them slightly won’t cause thieves to run them, that would be great.

CobOfCorn.6352:

I think the problem with thieves after patch is now every other class can do what thief can do, but better. Elementalists have high mobility, and can spike just as fast as a thief can (faster most of the time) and have access to more defensive skills. Rangers, Engineers, Necros, DPS Guard and good Warriors hard counter us on any build we decide to play. Especially with the shift towards AI builds from Anet (buffing spirit weapons, leaving turrets (almost) and minion master as is, mesmer PU) excelling as a thief in pvp will only get harder from here on out. But aside from the qq, give it a month or so and someone will find a strong build again. (Personally, I am starting to use the old EU panic strike meta, 60206, which now seems to be coming back into play on NA)

Also: If Anet could realize that useless traits are useless and buffing them slightly won’t cause thieves to run them, that would be great.

I’ve tried 60206. I probably need some time to acclimate to it and get some experience, but I feel like even if the spec becomes second nature to me, a stiff breeze from anyone who isn’t full out bunker spec’d is enough to put me in serious danger, and I’m just not hitting hard enough in return.

Any advice?

CobOfCorn.6352:

I think the problem with thieves after patch is now every other class can do what thief can do, but better. Elementalists have high mobility, and can spike just as fast as a thief can (faster most of the time) and have access to more defensive skills. Rangers, Engineers, Necros, DPS Guard and good Warriors hard counter us on any build we decide to play. Especially with the shift towards AI builds from Anet (buffing spirit weapons, leaving turrets (almost) and minion master as is, mesmer PU) excelling as a thief in pvp will only get harder from here on out. But aside from the qq, give it a month or so and someone will find a strong build again. (Personally, I am starting to use the old EU panic strike meta, 60206, which now seems to be coming back into play on NA)

Also: If Anet could realize that useless traits are useless and buffing them slightly won’t cause thieves to run them, that would be great.

This happen not first with the last patch, but since release.

Further things:
Landspeed=Warrior
Control= Warrior, Nekro, Engi
Booncounter=Mesmer, Nekro
Support=Every class
Use of stealth=Mesmer

I hate to say this but I’m thinking the problem with thieves isn’t anet but the player. I main a necro and people say things like this about the necro all the time, “Oh necros can’t sustain”, “Oh necros are useless in dungeons” “Omg I cannot kill warriors therefore necro is useless, BUFF PLEASE!” don’t let me get started on the ridiculous complaints about the new balances for the class. I found these problems to be non existent when i used certain builds that are very different from the meta.

This leads me to my point, dump the thief meta. FS on the S/D might cost more initiative so it isn’t spammable, big deal, I think its fair if you want to use initiative to spam evades then you should be using stuff to gain initiative, like roll for initiative. Ofcourse no one uses initiative gain builds. If one weapon set was all that made the class, then the class wasn’t very good to begin with.

Ive been messing with the thief class and one thing i noticed was I need to be gaining initiative much faster than the default recharge rate to deal with multiple targets effectively without using stealth or waiting for a recharge after a skills burst

If you want to avoid crowd control skills, instead of waiting for the circles to disappear, isn’t it better to drag your target to you with scorpion wire? at 1200 range you can isolate targets and try dealing with em 1 by 1. The pull causes like a 2 second delay to your targets skills and movement as well which is enough time to do some serious damage.

How about sigil of energy? Honest question, do thieves even use those? I see a lot of sigil of fire, air and accuracy. I asked someone why thieves hardly use the energy and he said you can use it if you want to be dodging unnecessarily and I’m like o_O

If you aren’t using the 2/0/0/6/6 meta are you gaining vigor up time some other way? if not then that might be a problem.

This is a build example of what I’m talking about. I accounted for the stat increase to crit chance and vitality in game (so 50% crit chance instead of 49% and hp should get to about 17k)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoa8Yl0Mp2plOx3J8PNBNB5dY+SZ0MAzuzocEA-TFCBAB1ofYLlHBt/AAPEgsUixoSQdU/ZjzAAA-w

evilapprentice.6379:

…
we need Anet to decide what exactly it is they want thief to do, then make changes to support that role.

o.o
Don’t they want us to be venom-sharing trappers?

I mean, I always felt those kind of hints coming from them.

CobOfCorn.6352:

I think the problem with thieves after patch is now every other class can do what thief can do, but better. Elementalists have high mobility, and can spike just as fast as a thief can (faster most of the time) and have access to more defensive skills. Rangers, Engineers, Necros, DPS Guard and good Warriors hard counter us on any build we decide to play. Especially with the shift towards AI builds from Anet (buffing spirit weapons, leaving turrets (almost) and minion master as is, mesmer PU) excelling as a thief in pvp will only get harder from here on out. But aside from the qq, give it a month or so and someone will find a strong build again. (Personally, I am starting to use the old EU panic strike meta, 60206, which now seems to be coming back into play on NA)

Also: If Anet could realize that useless traits are useless and buffing them slightly won’t cause thieves to run them, that would be great.

I dont think this arguement has much hold to it though. Every class can do a little bit of any class. Yes ele may have mobility but it’s not even close to ours.

Some weapon sets like S/D needs tweaking, and many utlities/traits should be redone, but at the moment thief is the pure skill class where you really need to read and know what your opponent is doing and going to do.
Just because we arnt good enough at X atm doesnt mean we should have more or same strenghts like an ele for instance, diversity is what one should aim for. But what we should excell at should be unique, and mobility alone isnt going to cut it.

Yesterday I decided to get back to D/D thief for a while (WvW) and just wow… At first everything seemed right.. then i met a warrior who landed a stun on me, I ss away and i got rubberbanded right back. Then I was immobilized and tryed a cnd+steal while immob to get to stealth up and steal just went on cd without doing anything. Then I took an eviscerate to the face for 9k+ (running with 2,6k armor) and that was it.

It really feels like D/D is not getting you anywere. I haven’t played it for months and CnD feels so telegraphed and slow it’s quite sad really. I think that it would be enough to half it’s cast time to make it viable tbh

Delta Blues.8507:

Yesterday I decided to get back to D/D thief for a while (WvW) and just wow… At first everything seemed right.. then i met a warrior who landed a stun on me, I ss away and i got rubberbanded right back. Then I was immobilized and tryed a cnd+steal while immob to get to stealth up and steal just went on cd without doing anything. Then I took an eviscerate to the face for 9k+ (running with 2,6k armor) and that was it.

It really feels like D/D is not getting you anywere. I haven’t played it for months and CnD feels so telegraphed and slow it’s quite sad really. I think that it would be enough to half it’s cast time to make it viable tbh

The class would be in a lot better spot if the bugs were fixed. No amount of buffs can compensate for skills that fail that often.

Steal, kittened up teleports, stealth bugs (tho rare in comparison to the previous 2), weird FS pathing – I though I’d just learn to use skill 3 after the patch only to find that FS either ignores a target or when it visually hits, it doesn’t register the hit to turn into LS (no blocks/invul etc).

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Delta Blues.8507:

Yesterday I decided to get back to D/D thief for a while (WvW) and just wow… At first everything seemed right.. then i met a warrior who landed a stun on me, I ss away and i got rubberbanded right back. Then I was immobilized and tryed a cnd+steal while immob to get to stealth up and steal just went on cd without doing anything. Then I took an eviscerate to the face for 9k+ (running with 2,6k armor) and that was it.

It really feels like D/D is not getting you anywere. I haven’t played it for months and CnD feels so telegraphed and slow it’s quite sad really. I think that it would be enough to half it’s cast time to make it viable tbh

The class would be in a lot better spot if the bugs were fixed. No amount of buffs can compensate for skills that fail that often.

Steal, kittened up teleports, stealth bugs (tho rare in comparison to the previous 2), weird FS pathing – I though I’d just learn to use skill 3 after the patch only to find that FS either ignores a target or when it visually hits, it doesn’t register the hit to turn into LS (no blocks/invul etc).

At least there’s this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Steal-Bug-Making-thief-unplayable/page/3#post4425479

No time line on a fix, but at least there’s recognition that the original fix didn’t fix it.

….so we got that going for us which is nice.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Delta Blues.8507:

Yesterday I decided to get back to D/D thief for a while (WvW) and just wow… At first everything seemed right.. then i met a warrior who landed a stun on me, I ss away and i got rubberbanded right back. Then I was immobilized and tryed a cnd+steal while immob to get to stealth up and steal just went on cd without doing anything. Then I took an eviscerate to the face for 9k+ (running with 2,6k armor) and that was it.

It really feels like D/D is not getting you anywere. I haven’t played it for months and CnD feels so telegraphed and slow it’s quite sad really. I think that it would be enough to half it’s cast time to make it viable tbh

The class would be in a lot better spot if the bugs were fixed. No amount of buffs can compensate for skills that fail that often.

Steal, kittened up teleports, stealth bugs (tho rare in comparison to the previous 2), weird FS pathing – I though I’d just learn to use skill 3 after the patch only to find that FS either ignores a target or when it visually hits, it doesn’t register the hit to turn into LS (no blocks/invul etc).

At least there’s this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Steal-Bug-Making-thief-unplayable/page/3#post4425479

No time line on a fix, but at least there’s recognition that the original fix didn’t fix it.

….so we got that going for is which is nice.

Yup… it’s “nice” of them for fixing a mistake that they made on a skill that used to work better. This is one way to look at it. Don’t mind it that it’s taking them a couple of days… It’s just nice that they’re fixing it after breaking it more.

Maybe the place I used to work at was too strict or maybe I was just being too h.a.r.d. (censored? really?) on my self… If I accidentally ruined a functionality after deploying my code, I would fix it within 5-20 minutes of discovery that I broke it. I guess I was “nice” that way – No, actually I didn’t want to seem like a kitten up – and it was embarrassing as it is to ruin something working, but every passing minute knowing that it was still broken because of me was agonizing.

But yeah, it’s nice of them.

Zero Day.2594:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Delta Blues.8507:

Yesterday I decided to get back to D/D thief for a while (WvW) and just wow… At first everything seemed right.. then i met a warrior who landed a stun on me, I ss away and i got rubberbanded right back. Then I was immobilized and tryed a cnd+steal while immob to get to stealth up and steal just went on cd without doing anything. Then I took an eviscerate to the face for 9k+ (running with 2,6k armor) and that was it.

It really feels like D/D is not getting you anywere. I haven’t played it for months and CnD feels so telegraphed and slow it’s quite sad really. I think that it would be enough to half it’s cast time to make it viable tbh

The class would be in a lot better spot if the bugs were fixed. No amount of buffs can compensate for skills that fail that often.

Steal, kittened up teleports, stealth bugs (tho rare in comparison to the previous 2), weird FS pathing – I though I’d just learn to use skill 3 after the patch only to find that FS either ignores a target or when it visually hits, it doesn’t register the hit to turn into LS (no blocks/invul etc).

At least there’s this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Steal-Bug-Making-thief-unplayable/page/3#post4425479

No time line on a fix, but at least there’s recognition that the original fix didn’t fix it.

….so we got that going for is which is nice.

Yup… it’s “nice” of them for fixing a mistake that they made on a skill that used to work better. This is one way to look at it. Don’t mind it that it’s taking them a couple of days… It’s just nice that they’re fixing it after breaking it more.

Maybe the place I used to work at was too strict or maybe I was just being too h.a.r.d. (censored? really?) on my self… If I accidentally ruined a functionality after deploying my code, I would fix it within 5-20 minutes of discovery that I broke it. I guess I was “nice” that way – No, actually I didn’t want to seem like a kitten up – and it was embarrassing as it is to ruin something working, but every passing minute knowing that it was still broken because of me was agonizing.

But yeah, it’s nice of them.

I will be more explicit with my jokes in the future.

Maugetarr.6823:

I will be more explicit with my jokes in the future.

:| Man, I lost touch with these forums…

Zero Day.2594:

Maugetarr.6823:

I will be more explicit with my jokes in the future.

:| Man, I lost touch with these forums…

Nah, it’s my bad. The meme is “<insert multiple bad things going wrong>, but <insert minor thing which doesn’t offset first things>, so at least I got that goin for me.” It’s a sarcastic “look on the bright side.” My sense of humor does not carry well into typed format apparently.