Guild Wars 2

With the changes to Scrapper, the gyro should keep up with the player, be harder to kill, and have 90% stealth uptime (kitten cooldown aka 45 seconds, grants 40 seconds stealth total). I’m not too bothered by it since it’s killable and an elite, but…our stealth utilities have terrible uptime, and SR is just as easily countered as the gyro. I’d like to at least see a little boost to meld with shadows.

Edit: I stand corrected. The gyro provides 44s of stealth max, or ~98% uptime.

The gyro is terrible compared to SR for all the reasons you specified.

1. It’s an elite skill compared to a utility skill, meaning the Engineer loses AOE moa form or Mortar Kit or Supply Drop.
2. Stealth pulse takes longer to build up thanks to no MiS.
3. It’s like having a minipet you cannot put away while in stealth that can also be killed.

I honestly think the Thief’s stealth utilities are fine. The only thing I’d like to see changed is to have Meld in Shadows work with stealth-providing finishers (ie. blasts/leaps). That is all that’s needed here.

For a skill like SR where it can be completely nullified with a fear or knockback and makes you an immobile AoE target, the cd is high. Sneak gyro can have insane stealth uptime because it has counterplay, but SR has easier counterplay that has much worse consequences for the user. I don’t think a 45 second cooldown would hurt. Otherwise it shouldn’t reveal if you leave the field. I agree on MwS applying to combos.

It doesn’t reveal you when you step out of it. c.c

Yes it does. If you walk out of the field or get feared, knocked back or pulled out of it you get 3s reveal. It’s a huge pain in dungeons when people don’t know how it works and rather than stealthing through a section they get revealed and die.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Refuge

Read the anomalies section.

Zodryn.4216:

Yes it does. If you walk out of the field or get feared, knocked back or pulled out of it you get 3s reveal. It’s a huge pain in dungeons when people don’t know how it works and rather than stealthing through a section they get revealed and die.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Refuge

Read the anomalies section.

I’m talking about Sneak Gyro.

sneak gyro pulses every 3 seconds and only has 30s duration. so at best it’s 66% uptime, and even then, it’s 4s of stealth every 3 seconds, so unlike SR, you can’t get a super long stealth without putting the red flag over your head. meanwhile SR asks for 4 seconds of your time to get you 12s of untampered stealth, all while pulsing about 2k health per second (which also heals downed allies).

BrunoBRS.5178:

sneak gyro pulses every 3 seconds and only has 30s duration. so at best it’s 66% uptime, and even then, it’s 4s of stealth every 3 seconds, so unlike SR, you can’t get a super long stealth without putting the red flag over your head. meanwhile SR asks for 4 seconds of your time to get you 12s of untampered stealth, all while pulsing about 2k health per second (which also heals downed allies).

4s stealth every 3s means that by the 30s mark you’ve received 40s stealth (you have 10s left after it dies). The cd is 45 seconds, so that’s about 90% uptime. Unless it gives a pulse right at the start, in which case it’s 44s, and 99% uptime.

@Doggie, sorry I misinterpreted your post.

To be honest, Sneak Gyro is not worth the loss of DPS from Mortar Kit and support from Supply Crate where both Elite does more than one thing.

Although, if the Engineer chooses to be less of a support and pure DPS using hammer, this Elite is stupidly broken. Getting Thunderclapped from Stealth is worst than Backstab. I wish Backstab stuns in addition to dealing damage.

Sneak Gyro and use turrets. Hey damage from hiding!!! Need salt!

Why not make shadow refuge an elite? I wouldn´t have any problem with that actually :P
Saying sneak gyro is terrible because of being an elite and the other ones on engi are better isn´t really valid. They have better or great options? Thats fine. I would take a lot of utilities as elite on thief. Basilisk venom is ok, but I could live without it and take refuge instead. Thief guild wasn´t used in competitive pvp for long time (was it ever?), dagger storm sometimes, but not really that much to be a valid option. The new elite is interesting bu very situational and fails easily. ^^

Coronit.9432:

Why not make shadow refuge an elite? I wouldn´t have any problem with that actually :P
Saying sneak gyro is terrible because of being an elite and the other ones on engi are better isn´t really valid. They have better or great options? Thats fine. I would take a lot of utilities as elite on thief. Basilisk venom is ok, but I could live without it and take refuge instead. Thief guild wasn´t used in competitive pvp for long time (was it ever?), dagger storm sometimes, but not really that much to be a valid option. The new elite is interesting bu very situational and fails easily. ^^

I would actually love SR to be made an elite. Or even just the ability to take a normal util in the elite slot.

babazhook.6805:

Sneak Gyro and use turrets. Hey damage from hiding!!! Need salt!

Turrets cant be stealthed

BrunoBRS.5178:

meanwhile SR asks for 4 seconds of your time to get you 12s of untampered stealth, all while pulsing about 2k health per second (which also heals downed allies).

How do you squeeze the ~7000 healing power in your build to do this?

Zodryn.4216:

With the changes to Scrapper, the gyro should keep up with the player, be harder to kill, and have 90% stealth uptime (kitten cooldown aka 45 seconds, grants 40 seconds stealth total). I’m not too bothered by it since it’s killable and an elite, but…our stealth utilities have terrible uptime, and SR is just as easily countered as the gyro. I’d like to at least see a little boost to meld with shadows.

Its even better then you think. When gyro die after 30s you already have 14s of stealth (tested) so its just 1s gap.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

To be honest, Sneak Gyro is not worth the loss of DPS from Mortar Kit and support from Supply Crate where both Elite does more than one thing.

Although, if the Engineer chooses to be less of a support and pure DPS using hammer, this Elite is stupidly broken. Getting Thunderclapped from Stealth is worst than Backstab. I wish Backstab stuns in addition to dealing damage.

FYI gyro after summonig have another overcharge skill there you can summon it and if you are out of combat you can swap to some other elite and dont get cd on it. Supply crate works now the same you plonk down turrets and swap to mortar.

Rozbuska.5263:

Zodryn.4216:

With the changes to Scrapper, the gyro should keep up with the player, be harder to kill, and have 90% stealth uptime (kitten cooldown aka 45 seconds, grants 40 seconds stealth total). I’m not too bothered by it since it’s killable and an elite, but…our stealth utilities have terrible uptime, and SR is just as easily countered as the gyro. I’d like to at least see a little boost to meld with shadows.

Its even better then you think. When gyro die after 30s you already have 14s of stealth (tested) so its just 1s gap.

This gap can be closed with Elixir S which will be off cooldown when you need it the next time, leaving you with perfect Perma Stealth (except for the visible Gyro)

I thought it was strange that while we can permastealth as thief, it takes so much effort compared to chrono and scrapper. We need to trait for it, spend all of our initiative doing four tricky leaps every 10 seconds while trying to avoid hitting anything, and take stealth utilities because we don’t have the init regen to keep it up otherwise. It’d definitely help if MwS affected combos and maybe gave more than 1 extra second.

Zodryn.4216:

I thought it was strange that while we can permastealth as thief, it takes so much effort compared to chrono and scrapper. We need to trait for it, spend all of our initiative doing four tricky leaps every 10 seconds while trying to avoid hitting anything, and take stealth utilities because we don’t have the init regen to keep it up otherwise. It’d definitely help if MwS affected combos and maybe gave more than 1 extra second.

Yeah coz Chronomancer just presses 1 button and ends up in permastealth. Nevermind the devotion of 3 trait lines and the requirement of 3 major traits alongside your elite, all utility slots and an offhand that bursts big purple smoke every 4.5 seconds. Putting aside the obvious lack of knowledge by the poster above and returning to the topic.

I was afraid they were going to tweak the gyro to make it follow closely, we’ll have to see just how it is but it is essentially perma stealth for 5 people. The gyro doesn’t aggro mobs so thief will definitely be getting replaced by engineers in raids/dungeons as they provide much better DPS (assuming condi and moderate length fight) and can provide all the stealth for skipping.

For PvP/WvW I think the thief has the edge on stealth application as it doesn’t have that gyro announcing to everyone where you are. Having said that I can see myself running into 5 man roaming parties with their 1337 ganking skills killing solo roamers.

Gonna be a hard time for stealth roaming in HoT as stealth disruptor traps are going to be everywhere!

Rozbuska.5263:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

To be honest, Sneak Gyro is not worth the loss of DPS from Mortar Kit and support from Supply Crate where both Elite does more than one thing.

Although, if the Engineer chooses to be less of a support and pure DPS using hammer, this Elite is stupidly broken. Getting Thunderclapped from Stealth is worst than Backstab. I wish Backstab stuns in addition to dealing damage.

FYI gyro after summonig have another overcharge skill there you can summon it and if you are out of combat you can swap to some other elite and dont get cd on it. Supply crate works now the same you plonk down turrets and swap to mortar.

Well yeah, out of combat of course. Maybe useful when defending an area, but not when you choose to be mobile.

A beefed up Shadow Refuge as an elite would actually be kinda awesome, and offer more build options. Right now, it’s pretty much Basilisk or bust

Amante.8109:

A beefed up Shadow Refuge as an elite would actually be kinda awesome, and offer more build options. Right now, it’s pretty much Basilisk or bust

Nope. Trapper Runes + P/P + Ambush + Thieves Guild. Call in your posse and /whisper “You came to the wrong turf , bro!” Now you’re thinking with gang crime.

So, if there are two engies running sneak gyros… Do the gyros stealth one another?

If so, you can sit in a keep/tower in WvW for days.

The gyro can’t be stealthed it’s always under the effect of revealed, at least it was like that during the Beta.

Cherubino XV.2384:

The gyro can’t be stealthed it’s always under the effect of revealed, at least it was like that during the Beta.

Good. I was just watching some WP videos… he said that there was a way to do it with 2 engies – I wasn’t sure if that info was dated or not.

MarauderShields.6830:

Amante.8109:

A beefed up Shadow Refuge as an elite would actually be kinda awesome, and offer more build options. Right now, it’s pretty much Basilisk or bust

Nope. Trapper Runes + P/P + Ambush + Thieves Guild. Call in your posse and /whisper “You came to the wrong turf , bro!” Now you’re thinking with gang crime.

Lol, I do love TG, but the cooldown is so insanely high that you pretty much have to run improv. Can still be really fun in the right build, but meta sPvP is pretty much exclusively BV.

Also keep in mind that when the gyro is destroyed it will deal damage to enemies in the area, this reveals the engineer. So killing the gyro while next to it negates the impact of the elite.

This was particularly annoying during the beta where it would kamikaze anyone dealing damage to it (broken AI thinking it has a weapon when it does not).

miriforst.1290:

Also keep in mind that when the gyro is destroyed it will deal damage to enemies in the area, this reveals the engineer. So killing the gyro while next to it negates the impact of the elite.

This was particularly annoying during the beta where it would kamikaze anyone dealing damage to it (broken AI thinking it has a weapon when it does not).

Hmm…you tested it and it reveals you? Most damage not dealt directly by the player (i.e. clones, minions, turrets) won’t reveal you, so that’s interesting. If it stays that way, that’s at least kind of helpful sometimes in PvP.

Still doesnt change the fact that thief is more skippable in PvE content thanks to it’s one semi unique function being performed better by a class that doesn’t have “master of stealth” in it’s description. Want to skip some stuff in CoE or TA? Would you rather have 15s of stealth that pugs will always fail using because they walk outside of refuge revealing themselves, or 44s with no such issues?

Zodryn.4216:

miriforst.1290:

Also keep in mind that when the gyro is destroyed it will deal damage to enemies in the area, this reveals the engineer. So killing the gyro while next to it negates the impact of the elite.

This was particularly annoying during the beta where it would kamikaze anyone dealing damage to it (broken AI thinking it has a weapon when it does not).

Hmm…you tested it and it reveals you? Most damage not dealt directly by the player (i.e. clones, minions, turrets) won’t reveal you, so that’s interesting. If it stays that way, that’s at least kind of helpful sometimes in PvP.

Still doesnt change the fact that thief is more skippable in PvE content thanks to it’s one semi unique function being performed better by a class that doesn’t have “master of stealth” in it’s description. Want to skip some stuff in CoE or TA? Would you rather have 15s of stealth that pugs will always fail using because they walk outside of refuge revealing themselves, or 44s with no such issues?

Actually i went along with my thief partner in crime and made a duo attempt at arah as a scrapper to get the feel of the abilities, and for the longer skips a combination of refuge and gyro was very useful, the gyro forces you to progress much slower (about walking speed) while its up if you want to maintain the stealth or risk missing out a pulse(shadow refuge has an initial wait followed by all the shadowstepping or leaping that you want) and when its duration is up (30 sec) or if destroyed by something it will explode in a large area, revealing you if anything is nearby. The kind of players that walk out of shadow refuge will also walk out of this, drop from stealth and risk harm to the stealth gyro if they try catching the next pulse (every 3rd sec). I can agree that its odd that most enemies have a tendency not to attack it, but i will have to see the next iteration to able to say if it would be usable in a scenarios where everything focus it down.

I was very pleased to use it in 1vs1 skirmishing, using the stealth mainly to disorient for a second every now and then helps you to keep them from focusing it down to much, ideally you need to defend it as much as it defends you. Now the engineer does not have a separate set of stealth skills, but key abilities that benefit from usage in stealth include (on top of my head) magnet (we all love stealth pulls don’t we?), blowtorch (requires good positioning or it have a tendency to “dud”, thus stealth gives you a chance to position youself correctly) and blast gyro (activate this directly after your marker hit and your gyro have enough stealth to stealth bomb).

I can also say that it is very fun duoing up with a thief with this. this allows us to pump out stealth benefits to builds that do not incorporate frequent restealthing (for example allowing staff DD to get off hook strikes much more frequently in a melee brawl).

On a final note, the reveal skill have a good tell, its similar to the mesmer mass invisibility both in animation and in fx so it can be dodged if you are looking out for it.

Thats at least my experience from the sneak gyro during the one (/salt) beta weekend we have had to test it.

That’s good the toolbelt reveal can be dodged. Gyros are getting a speed buff though, so it should keep up with people. If that works out, SR is not desirable as long as enemies still don’t attack the gyro.