What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
Curo Lunesque – “Concerned Citizen and Community Builder”
NSP – northernshiverpeaks.org
I only see this feasible with a full zerker Thief with maybe full stacks of Bloodlust (if you got hit by 12k with 2.8k+ armor). In which case, that sucks for you. But these thieves are usually as glass cannon as anyone can possibly be and usually go down pretty fast so they don’t really pose any big threat.
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
He’s using a glass canon build. Dodge his canon ball and hit his canon with a toothpick.
2,089 armour (I’m a light class). Full PVT clothing with mostly zerker trinkets.
I am fully aware that there are 100’s of posts/threads raging about thieves being op. Well guess what, there is a basis for those threads! Something being said multiple times does not warrant it being ignored, it warrants extra attention. HELLO ANET!
Personally, if I know a thief is coming, it’s no problem for me. But when they pop out of stealth and immobilize me while I am running through a field alone, I have no chance. The point is: it doesn’t matter how much damage the thief takes, if the thief is able to kill me before I even notice him there.
Curo Lunesque – “Concerned Citizen and Community Builder”
NSP – northernshiverpeaks.org
Only thing I can suggest is to roll a thief to understand their mechanics more. I had to do the same with mesmer because they were giving me problems. 12k dmg… my main is my Guard.. however when I mess around on my thief in full zerks everything glass cannon build I still cant get 12k dmg. ESPECIALLY after the whole mug nerf etc.
Only possibility could be the new shadow trap helping the thief to somehow grab a stack of 25 might + added bloodlust(even then math dont add up).. did you have vulnerability on you as well?
On my thief I usually see around 3-9k. The only time I see 9s is if they are a FULL glass light build. (and now even then thats not a problem. Elementalist have so much sustain.. new necro is ridiculous.) Remember Im also full glass. Thiefs are NOT hard to kill. Spending time on my thief made them much more trivial on my Guard.(I run my guard Zerker wpn/armor and valk trink.
prepare to be ablazed for pointing out the obvious imbalance in such a class that stealth isnt a risk/reward thing but rather a win-win situation since there is literally no penalty for it, you get mov speed (easy to get), make the enemy lose sight of you, you lose bleeds burns and chills, get health regend, make your opponent waste abilities, use it to escape, explore, one-hit people (such as you), get away from batttle if things get awry, finish people up before they even know you were there, and the only window of counterplay is a 2 second penalty where most skills have a second winding up, and unless you CC him hard, he will get away, and even if you do you would need a LOT of firepower to make him retreat, just to come back fro stealth and finish you off after the first backstab HS HS didnt do the job.
Yep, stealth is totally balanced
[GoM] Gate of Madness Server Elementalist|Guardian
Legendary SoloQ
Curo, I’m really disappointed in you coming to the forums to whine. Seriously, show NSP some respect. Also, proof of the 12k. If it truly was 12k (and you knew it), you’d have a screenshot of the damage in your chat.
I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth.
That’s what thieves are made for.
Thieves, or the rogue archetype in MMOs, is the ganker – the character who finds an unsuspecting target, attacks it from stealth, and who runs away through teleportation and stealth if they don’t get a kill in the first few attacks.
That’s what thieves were made to do, and that’s all they are good for. In sPvP, open world PvE or dungeon PvE, those abilities are next to useless. They only become useful exactly in the context you described.
So what’s the point of having thieves like that? It’s the entire point of having thieves. Otherwise, they may as well be removed from the game (which tbh wouldn’t be a huge loss).
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
You gotta keep mobile and get your stun breakers ready. Can’t just sit there. 2k armour isn’t tanky, that’s still glass cannon, you can get much higher (I think my mesmer at some point was at 2.6k).
I’d guess you’re an elementalist, in which case you really have to be wary of your health pool and can’t just go that deep into berserker gear unless you’re going to be zerging.
They are balanced in their own right. Every class is supposed to have it’s niche. Thieves just happen to be some of the best roamers in the game. Look at warrior 40k 100 blades. Theyre kings of pve, why cant thieves be kings of small scale combat in wvw.
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
He’s using a glass canon build. Dodge his canon ball and hit his canon with a toothpick.
Yes, dodge the attack from the enemy who can remain completely undetectable until after he attacks. Genius.
prepare to be ablazed for pointing out the obvious imbalance in such a class that stealth isnt a risk/reward thing but rather a win-win situation since there is literally no penalty for it, you get mov speed (easy to get), make the enemy lose sight of you, you lose bleeds burns and chills, get health regend, make your opponent waste abilities, use it to escape, explore, one-hit people (such as you), get away from batttle if things get awry, finish people up before they even know you were there, and the only window of counterplay is a 2 second penalty where most skills have a second winding up, and unless you CC him hard, he will get away, and even if you do you would need a LOT of firepower to make him retreat, just to come back fro stealth and finish you off after the first backstab HS HS didnt do the job.
Yep, stealth is totally balanced
Congratulations, you just described the entire Thief mechanic.
Working as intended……
Balance where? look here a comparation of my stats and damage compared to a i dont know wth thief.
Hey but dont worry next patch they will give Thief a new boots, now they can Backstab from 1200 range and other will be nerfed to compensate the balance
Attachments:
We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that.
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
He’s using a glass canon build. Dodge his canon ball and hit his canon with a toothpick.
Yes, dodge the attack from the enemy who can remain completely undetectable until after he attacks. Genius.
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
He’s using a glass canon build. Dodge his canon ball and hit his canon with a toothpick.
Yes, dodge the attack from the enemy who can remain completely undetectable until after he attacks. Genius.
It’s not like he’s gonna one hit you.
As if starting a fight at half HP (or less) against the class with both the highest damage and highest damage mitigation in the game isn’t exactly the same thing.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. They only have to last four seconds, unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), or they are completely incompetent, they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again.
It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
He’s using a glass canon build. Dodge his canon ball and hit his canon with a toothpick.
made me laugh harder than anything else today. Thank you good sir
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
He’s using a glass canon build. Dodge his canon ball and hit his canon with a toothpick.
made me laugh harder than anything else today. Thank you good sir
Haha you’re welcome! I was hoping someone might appreciate the humor
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
then stop running around alone. or just standing around. Thieves, Warriors, and Elementalists have the highest mobility. Maybe a DD ele has the highest, then the thief, and lastly the warrior, but you can still move away fast enough. You must be doing something that puts yourself at a distinct disadvantage. I’ve never found this to be a problem, but then again, I may just be playing a different build than you. I only have 13k health.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
I run 2.8k defense in WvW and a thief shadowstep CnDed me for 6k , i reaaaallllyy wanted to know what his backstab would hit for but once i seen the blind animation i put up my gearshield …
I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
Dude there are so many countless ways to kill a theif. If you get one good hit on him to knock him over, stun him, etc., he’s pretty much done. And I prefer to be called a cool cat, rather than a bad kitten. lol
Despite what some people might say, each profession fills niche roles in wvw. Since GW2 isn’t going to drop the use of professions, get used to never overextending the roles your choice of profession has restricted you too.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
Oh gawd! The class that’s suppose to have the highest burst bursted me! Wtf anet?!
Wait, wait wait. A high burst character busted you? Dude. I don’t even wanna play this game anymore. C’mon man, let’s just quit. This is just madness….(lol)
Hey it works either way. What I was referring to is that some people may claim that any profession can play any role in wvw if built for it. Which isn’t true and never has been true in a profession based game.
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
So your complaint isn’t really even that thieves are killing ya, it’s that you have ta be extra special careful when you know a thief is stalking the battlefield – Oh me oh my how horrible! That dancing on your toes feeling? That’s what those thieves feel like most of the time when they aren’t on the prowl. (when even a strong gust of wind can knock you over)
I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
Dude there are so many countless ways to kill a theif. If you get one good hit on him to knock him over, stun him, etc., he’s pretty much done. And I prefer to be called a cool cat, rather than a bad kitten. lol
And you do that through the largest amount of evasion in the game… how exactly? What magical ability do you have to hit evading targets that isn’t available to the rest of us? A thief with just daggers has multiple dodges, can restore full initiative with many different easily accessible traits and utility skills, and then restealth having evaded through almost the entire duration of reveal. Maybe you just only play sucky thieves, or maybe you’re just trying to talk yourself up.
2,089 armour (I’m a light class). Full PVT clothing with mostly zerker trinkets.
I am fully aware that there are 100’s of posts/threads raging about thieves being op. Well guess what, there is a basis for those threads! Something being said multiple times does not warrant it being ignored, it warrants extra attention. HELLO ANET!
Personally, if I know a thief is coming, it’s no problem for me. But when they pop out of stealth and immobilize me while I am running through a field alone, I have no chance. The point is: it doesn’t matter how much damage the thief takes, if the thief is able to kill me before I even notice him there.
Here’s your problem. In this situation you definitely deserved to get your kitten pushed in.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
Dude there are so many countless ways to kill a theif. If you get one good hit on him to knock him over, stun him, etc., he’s pretty much done. And I prefer to be called a cool cat, rather than a bad kitten. lol
And you do that through the largest amount of evasion in the game… how exactly? What magical ability do you have to hit evading targets that isn’t available to the rest of us? A thief with just daggers has multiple dodges, can restore full initiative with many different easily accessible traits and utility skills, and then restealth having evaded through almost the entire duration of reveal. Maybe you just only play sucky thieves, or maybe you’re just trying to talk yourself up.
Or maybe you’re making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Thieves aren’t over powered. Plenty of people kill them with ease despite their dodge and stealth. That’s all I’m gonna say on the matter. Feel free to take the last word if you so desire.
Nah it’s mostly l2p. Any Thief that can kill you really easily can also go down really easily as most Thieves in WvW run full zerker with the game’s lowest health and bad defense. Just learn how to counter them, which isn’t that hard.
I don’t understand how people can say this when thieves can have 2 evasion skills and 2 dodges whenever they come out of stealth. Unless you’ve loaded up on undodgeable skills (laughable, there are barely any to speak of), they are always going to evade enough damage to get back in to stealth relatively unharmed. And there is nothing you can do from there except wait to do the exact same thing again, and watch them stealth away again. It’s a vicious cycle which completely destroys all counterplay, not to mention fun.
It’s funny because a lot of people (myself included) are apparently able to kill thieves. I’ve never even played a theif before and I’m not sure I ever will. However, I watched a few YouTube videos, learned their technique, and wa-la! I can kill thieves now relatively easily. Why is it that you can’t?
Learn to read, I never said I lose, but the majority of the time it goes exactly as I said above. I manage to avoid the burst and deal enough to push the thief back in to stealth, I go do my thing until he tries again, then I avoid his damage and push him back in to stealth again; and that cycle continues until some third variable enters the equation. And it goes the same for you too no matter how much you want to pretend you’re a BA.
Dude there are so many countless ways to kill a theif. If you get one good hit on him to knock him over, stun him, etc., he’s pretty much done. And I prefer to be called a cool cat, rather than a bad kitten. lol
And you do that through the largest amount of evasion in the game… how exactly? What magical ability do you have to hit evading targets that isn’t available to the rest of us? A thief with just daggers has multiple dodges, can restore full initiative with many different easily accessible traits and utility skills, and then restealth having evaded through almost the entire duration of reveal. Maybe you just only play sucky thieves, or maybe you’re just trying to talk yourself up.
Or maybe you’re making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Thieves aren’t over powered. Plenty of people kill them with ease despite their dodge and stealth. That’s all I’m gonna say on the matter. Feel free to take the last word if you so desire.
I’m not saying thieves can’t die or that they are an auto-win, I honestly don’t even care that they can hit for 12k, what I care about is that they can do so with zero counterplay and no consequences. If a thief just doesn’t want to lose, they have the ability to reset the fight or just leave. That’s not a good game mechanic and encourages being petty and a poor sportsman, not to mention destroying any tourney play potential. What would any sport be like if one team just had the ability to call the game a draw at any moment and walk off the field?
Conncept, what profession are you playing and what role in wvw do you want to fill?
Engi and Ele, I just run dolyaks and keep the NPC camps on our side, usually end up fighting in groups at the camps and dolys and wandering 1v1s between runs. Scout sometimes too. Or I did back before I got fed up with all the pig-tailed little girls that can’t finish a fight, haven’t been in WvW in weeks.
I’ve never been hit by more than about 7.2k from a BS and most of my classes are either full or near full glass cannon builds. Id be interested to know how people who are saying they are getting 12k+ BS crits running 2-3k toughness builds are getting this high a number. I can only assume upscaled or low level gear or a combination of the two.
What is the logic behind this balance? I’ve been repeatedly killed by thieves in 2, yes count them TWO hits in WvW tonight. What is the logic behind giving a class the ability to immobilize me, then 2-shot me, all in the span of less than one second, from stealth. I’m running full level 80 exotic soldier (PVT) gear, 21k hp.
lol balance updates are never really balance updates. “playing the class i like” doesnt exist.
Conncept, what profession are you playing and what role in wvw do you want to fill?
Engi and Ele, I just run dolyaks and keep the NPC camps on our side, or sometimes I scout. Or I did back before I got fed up with it all, haven’t been in WvW in weeks.
I haven’t played in a long time either. But I played ele and engi in WvW too.
I know what you mean cuz I’ve gotten clobbered by thieves so many times in wvw, even when I’m in a group and the thief singles me out.
If I was traveling on my own I’d aways bomb kit/rocket boots for my engi. Gave me a good stealth/escape. And if I was ele I’d be staff in air attunement.
Keep defense and group support is what those professions excel at. Engi can flamethrower through the door (don’t know if they nerfed that) and they can stack retaliation/might real well on a group. Ele of couse has the range, aoe and group healing advantage. Just play to their strengths is all.
edit: If you want to defend supply camps as ele/engi stick to the high ground. Most supply camps except for maybe 3? have bridges/cliffs/etc you can use.
