Guild Wars 2

I dont know about others S/D thieves. Im having trouble getting enough dmg on my sword it is ridicoulous.Before patch I had great burst with sword,could have use steal+c&d+skill #1 and down a thief easly with basic auto attack,now I barly get them to 50% health,while one backstab does 10k dmg on me with 2.649 armor…my build is http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g;4Vw-_07-R-Fd0;9;4MIJ;0237148246;4IN0;3m9fgm9fgi-FvF676;2VhVlWqXv214752kVL-2ie

I dont complain about backstab or how I die/lose or such a thing,just wanted to make sure this is not just me here.And if it does,what am I doing wrong,cause I got my fair share of playing thief and S/D is my most beloved spec.

Things I see that need to be improve:
1.bring back the quickness-on-crit trait.
2.scale sword dmg up by at least 10-15%.

-I dont complain about Acrobatics,since before patch I didnt even used that line.

oh, yea! scale sword damage up! my pistol whip thief will be soooo happy.

You can use that haste proc from Trickery now. Its mich more reliable since you know when you Hit the enemys back or side.
But i feel with you…S/d is also my Favorit weaponset. Play it After patch from time to time but Its just inferior to d/p

ah yeah, So…S/D thieves took a dammmmn hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
can barely one shot heavies anymore.

I feel the same audio and visual instant when I hit someone (do we call that “impact”?) as I did before and I’m using the Acro line instead of Critical. With DA and Crit working together you have both halves of the fight covered with Critical traits walking you into Executioner unless you get spanked unexpectedly. It’s becoming more apparent that Flanking Strikes is just good all around to roll up some damage discrepancy in a short amount of time while also serving at least two other functions effortlessly. I think Flanking Strikes will work well with your Critical choices.

I haven’t really had any damage issues since patch; is it possible you have been hitting opponents running more toughness than normal or?

Nah SD is fine, get gud

Murmaider.1805:

Nah SD is fine, get gud

hard to get gud when you got scrubs that only know the 1 & 2 buttons.
Guess what scrubby doo’s, theres 3..4.5.6

Vieux P.1238:

Murmaider.1805:

Nah SD is fine, get gud

hard to get gud when you got scrubs that only know the 1 & 2 buttons.
Guess what scrubby doo’s, theres 3..4.5.6

Scrubby doo LOL

I’ve been seeing 5K larcenous strikes….

s/d damage was actually buffed
its just that everyone else was buffed more….

I’ve been able to land 5k cloak and daggers and 6k larcenous strikes, and I run shadow arts instead of Critical Strikes. U need more critical chance, 30% is not really enough (50% with fury). I have a base crit chance of 54% after all the item stat buffs, and with food I get about 58%, so I get 78% with fury and with pack runes, i have a high fury uptime. I am able to down a squishy mes/ele/thief with my initial opening + 1 auto attack chain, so damage is really still there if not better.

from a pure pvp point of view, not wvw or anything…. after playing s/d for several days pretty intensely… I actually like it… a lot. More than d/p.

I still think d/p is better…. however, S/D still has a place. It is far superior to d/p in terms of mobility…. FAR superior. A lot more than before the patch. +1 a fight is easier doing than d/p MORE than it was before.

So, while mose teams will run d/p, i still think s/d has a place right now. I actually think it needs no change whatsoever.

That being said, other classes need to be toned down with their damage and/or cc/survivability… mesmer and ele especially. Warrior rampage on 120 sec is stupid.. it should be 180 at least, if not 240 sec. Engineer nades need fixing….

Necro minon master needs looking at, but it has some hard counters…

Burning damage needs fixing….

Vieux P.1238:

ah yeah, So…S/D thieves took a dammmmn hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
can barely one shot heavies anymore.

Not sure if sarcasm but,I didnt say that I dont kill ppl and didnt said that it is gamebreaking,I can see from your footage and I doubt you dont agree that your dmg got lowered.
and pre patch I did 7k lac strike…

I personally enjoy S/D still and will continue to use it, the mobility helps a lot for my play style lol.

It’s not a sword problem, it’s the over the top dmg everyone can do now that makes S/D look underwhelming but the weaponset is still in good place.

I use same traits are you, zerker gear and with food/buffs on (wvw), I’ve seen 11k 3rd sword aa’s ^ ^ While most follow the usual rotation and use sword 3 even when they don’t have to, you can actually mow through people just using aa’s. Sword doesn’t need more dmg.

Michael.9517:

from a pure pvp point of view, not wvw or anything…. after playing s/d for several days pretty intensely… I actually like it… a lot. More than d/p.

I still think d/p is better…. however, S/D still has a place. It is far superior to d/p in terms of mobility…. FAR superior. A lot more than before the patch. +1 a fight is easier doing than d/p MORE than it was before.

So, while mose teams will run d/p, i still think s/d has a place right now. I actually think it needs no change whatsoever.

That being said, other classes need to be toned down with their damage and/or cc/survivability… mesmer and ele especially. Warrior rampage on 120 sec is stupid.. it should be 180 at least, if not 240 sec. Engineer nades need fixing….

Necro minon master needs looking at, but it has some hard counters…

Burning damage needs fixing….

Thank you. S/D is viable, but in a different sense than D/P! People are tunnel visioning D/P because they don’t want to try things out of their comfort zone.

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

There’s one major problem with that build there tho

T raw.4658:

There’s one major problem with that build there tho

Eh i see a lot of little things wrong with that build imo, but nothing so severe that it wouldn’t play well.

Asudementio.8526:

T raw.4658:

There’s one major problem with that build there tho

Eh i see a lot of little things wrong with that builds imo, but nothing so severe that it wouldn’t play well.

Currently in the game now yes there is a glaring problem.

yes the dmg was buffed but with vigor nerfed it became a death sentence, every one prefers to play with blinds now since it is safer than dodges.

Volrath.1473:

yes the dmg was buffed but with vigor nerfed it became a death sentence, every one prefers to play with blinds now since it is safer than dodges.

You can’t blind aoe damage, and energy signet works fine to make up for the vigor loss in my opinion. Plus Dagger ability 5 works fine for stealth, just need to practice utilizing it

T raw.4658:

Asudementio.8526:

T raw.4658:

There’s one major problem with that build there tho

Eh i see a lot of little things wrong with that builds imo, but nothing so severe that it wouldn’t play well.

Currently in the game now yes there is a glaring problem.

Bug you’d like to mention or?

I was playing around with s/d for a while last night. It so very hard to tell just how much swindlers equilibrium and upper hand help the build. It hard to measure. I wish there was something in the log like “you gain one ini from upperhand”.

Hard to catch works very nice though ( The endurance refill is so very good in the build) and I was testing with maxxed endurance via SOA , energy sigils the food in wvw that increases endurance regen and the Adventurer Runes. You can get a whole lot of dodges.

I was trying it without trickery and still tinkering. It seems EVERY build goes trickery . It not that it OP in any way it just that it has so much utility for each build type.

Really The claim all weaponsets ruined and only D/p works are a bit over the top. These are just people who think all weaponsets should operate like D/p. Certainly some tweak to traits are in order to bring various sets more in line for utility and damage but they all should have a different feel to them and those that do not like a particular feel or style of a set they try should not just dismiss it as “garbage”.

Part of the problem , as others have mentioned , is all other classes seem out of kilter as well and people finding one weaponset that works best against the types of damage and scale of the same being dished out assume it a problem with the other weaponsets when it in fact due to bugs and or some traits that are just OP.

I think it going to be quite some time yet before we can make some real accurate assessments of given weapons and than start developing builds that do in fact work.

I am not trying to get d/p the master spec here,I hate that spec,I played S/D most of my time playing thief.It jsut feels I have to use CS instead of Acrobatics for better dmg. I dont think we can match the dmg backstabs do on sword but at least make sword base dmg stronger. And again I dont say s/d is not viable,I still having fun with it and still kill alot with it,it just bothers me the occasion guy that have skills killing me cause imo overall dmg got nerfed.

Urejt.5648:

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals

Michael.9517:

Urejt.5648:

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals

Wasn’t the part where he said acro was stronger than before a dead giveaway that he wasn’t legit?

Lettuce.2945:

Michael.9517:

Urejt.5648:

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals

Wasn’t the part where he said acro was stronger than before a dead giveaway that he wasn’t legit?

tho what he posted is sizer build atm.

Sandrox.9524:

Vieux P.1238:

ah yeah, So…S/D thieves took a dammmmn hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
can barely one shot heavies anymore.

Not sure if sarcasm but,I didnt say that I dont kill ppl and didnt said that it is gamebreaking,I can see from your footage and I doubt you dont agree that your dmg got lowered.
and pre patch I did 7k lac strike…

His vid looked pretty strong, but more important it looked like he was having a blast.

Sandrox.9524:

Lettuce.2945:

Michael.9517:

Urejt.5648:

Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q

1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals

Wasn’t the part where he said acro was stronger than before a dead giveaway that he wasn’t legit?

tho what he posted is sizer build atm.

But the video clearly says…Crit strikes s/d thief. I’m talking about the fact that acro definitely isn’t stronger than before. It got nerfed to oblivion.

aspirine.6852:

Sandrox.9524:

Vieux P.1238:

ah yeah, So…S/D thieves took a dammmmn hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
can barely one shot heavies anymore.

Not sure if sarcasm but,I didnt say that I dont kill ppl and didnt said that it is gamebreaking,I can see from your footage and I doubt you dont agree that your dmg got lowered.
and pre patch I did 7k lac strike…

His vid looked pretty strong, but more important it looked like he was having a blast.

It is,but it would have been stronger prepatch.I dont know what “looked like he was having a blast” related to anything I said.Im having a blast with sword too.

I’m not really sure if acro is worth it anymore. I duell a lot since the patch and I have sometimes with CS a better chance, because you bring clearly more pressure to your enemy.
While the new hard to catch looks really great, it sometimes triggers too early.
Against necro and ele it triggers when you steal them, a mesmer can just trigger it.
Pain Responce is also nice, but I don’t feel that I need it.
Same for don’t stop. With sword I have rarely immobilize issues.
On the other hand, my duelling partners are all playing power and cele builds.
Time will tell if acro has a place now or if S/D is forced into a burst spec.

The nerf to Acro wasn’t just a nerf to S/D, it was a nerf to stealthless builds in general.
Sure you can still make it work, but it’s clearly not suited for competitive play which really is a kitten shame considering the goal of this patch was to create build diversity.

Rant below.

No words in the English dictionary can describe how kittened off I am with these changes in regards to S/D thief build.

It is now basically underwhelming and all the decent traits are splattered everywhere like a dog’s breakfast or simply got butchered.

S/D was pretty much my favorite alongside condi thief.

I even tried to get more crits out of it by removing strength runes BECAUSE WHERE THE kitten DID “MIGHT ON DODGE” GO WITH THESE TRAITS WOW ANET… and replacing it with Pack runes (to get more precision) but it’s still stupidly underwhelming.

Guess I’ll stick to my cheesy condi thief. I have yet to try out D/P thief because I really liked running a less stealth build.. gonna seriously miss you S/D.

End of rant.

I actually started running adventure rune on my 2nd thief because I didn’t have money for much else and I wanted to try it out. It’s actually really nice for acro. Just on the first day it saved my kitten so many times. It allowed me to kite around 2v1/3v1 for like, 3-4 minutes to safety.

The problem with it is now with acro you have to invest in a lot more defensive things just to get anything out of it. I have to run signet of agility and adventurer runes now to make myself feel comfortable running it. I still think they need to do these things:

Make feline grace restore 15 endurance on successful dodge

Make upper hand remove a condition as well as gain one initiative (raise ICD slightly)

Increase assassins reward healing

Make guarded initiation not crap

Just those things would make acro so much better and give some more choices as to what majors you want to run. Anet, I hope you take these ideas.

I like new sd. Here i have some short clips clips for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKoWSdxrBlc&list=PLGZ2G4-q7C-1YSgBTIEuLwKmj1M1jTGSg

I’ll just take everyone’s word for it as far as spvp goes and I’ll just assume I’m in a bad WvW matchup but I feel Acrobatics is pretty reliable right now and I haven’t been feeling the loss of dodging but it might be the way I conserved them before for positioning and all that. I almost don’t want to disagree with the disapproval of it because I don’t want to take away from others arguments for any possible fixes if most people feel it’s needed but I can’t lie either, Acrobatics has been pretty clutch for me lately. I’m just an average thief though and I’m sure I’m missing the big picture.

I’ve been having fun with S/D. Traiting acro with it isn’t really worth it now, but taking signet of agility with signets of power is pretty good.

FG+ES need some help. The decent traits in acro now are really just there to mitigate some of the effects of getting hit. This is a real contrast to before the patch where the traits helped you avoid getting hit.

Hit with a stun? → HtC
Condi Bombed? → Pain Response
Immobilize, crippled, chilled? → Don’t stop

I don’t enjoy auto procs making up for my inability to dodge a hit.

Maugetarr.6823:

I’ve been having fun with S/D. Traiting acro with it isn’t really worth it now, but taking signet of agility with signets of power is pretty good.

FG+ES need some help. The decent traits in acro now are really just there to mitigate some of the effects of getting hit. This is a real contrast to before the patch where the traits helped you avoid getting hit.

Hit with a stun? -> HtC
Condi Bombed? -> Pain Response
Immobilize, crippled, chilled? -> Don’t stop

I don’t enjoy auto procs making up for my inability to dodge a hit.

Well I main an S/D thief but it isn’t viable anymore . I agree with the rest tho: They totally missed the point with acro, these passive traits are pretty useless since they all incentivize taking the stuns/immobs/condis and have totally random effects like when u get stunned u gain 100% endurance when u might have it on full already and pain response can activate when u have no condis and just grant a weak regen….
you didnt have too much problem with immob anyway becaue u can still use sword2 to return or flanking strike/disabling shot in place to evade attacks or simply withdraw,shadowstep of cleanse with signet of agility.(or counter-steal)

So the result is CS being way better than Acro but you are too glassy that way

If they added sensible stats to rune of the adventurer that would help S/Ds a lot. (175 condi dmg ATM makes it pretty weak). I don’t get why dont arenanet makes at least 2 rune types with this effect 1 with condi dmg 1 with power or something. or just remove stats from runes and let us choose effects and stats separately

Kicker.8203:

Maugetarr.6823:

I’ve been having fun with S/D. Traiting acro with it isn’t really worth it now, but taking signet of agility with signets of power is pretty good.

FG+ES need some help. The decent traits in acro now are really just there to mitigate some of the effects of getting hit. This is a real contrast to before the patch where the traits helped you avoid getting hit.

Hit with a stun? -> HtC
Condi Bombed? -> Pain Response
Immobilize, crippled, chilled? -> Don’t stop

I don’t enjoy auto procs making up for my inability to dodge a hit.

Well I main an S/D thief but it isn’t viable anymore . I agree with the rest tho: They totally missed the point with acro, these passive traits are pretty useless since they all incentivize taking the stuns/immobs/condis and have totally random effects like when u get stunned u gain 100% endurance when u might have it on full already and pain response can activate when u have no condis and just grant a weak regen….
you didnt have too much problem with immob anyway becaue u can still use sword2 to return or flanking strike/disabling shot in place to evade attacks or simply withdraw,shadowstep of cleanse with signet of agility.(or counter-steal)

So the result is CS being way better than Acro but you are too glassy that way

Well, tbh, the thief in general has been a little lackluster since the patch. I was not maining S/D before the patch, but I switched back to it after the patch to get some of the evasiveness back. You can get off some great bursts in general as a thief, but I feel like there’s a lot of utility lacking outside of that. I’m not quitting my thief, but I’ve been playing a lot more of my staff ele because it just contributes way more to a fight. Been taking my mesmers out for a spin also. Comparable spike damage, better utility.

So while I said S/D was fun, I usually end up switching after a few games to help support the team more. I think I mentioned it in a different thread too, my ele ended up having way more dodges than my thief after the patch because of Renewing Stamina combined with Sigil of Energy and the fact that ele promotes constant weapon swapping, proccing the sigil. I haven’t tried it myself, but I’ve also been hit by a 5k lightning flash + 9k burning speed combo (while on my mesmer), so if you want it the burst damage is available there also. I’m not saying to quit your thief, but if you enjoyed how the old acro line played, you might try an ele out.

Kicker.8203:

If they added sensible stats to rune of the adventurer that would help S/Ds a lot. (175 condi dmg ATM makes it pretty weak). I don’t get why dont arenanet makes at least 2 rune types with this effect 1 with condi dmg 1 with power or something. or just remove stats from runes and let us choose effects and stats separately

Agreed. They should add precision/ferocity or even maybe vitality to it, anything but condition damage lol. I still run it though, it’s worth it imo.

Kicker.8203:

If they added sensible stats to rune of the adventurer that would help S/Ds a lot. (175 condi dmg ATM makes it pretty weak). I don’t get why dont arenanet makes at least 2 rune types with this effect 1 with condi dmg 1 with power or something. or just remove stats from runes and let us choose effects and stats separately

Posted this in another thread…and i agree
__________________________________________________________________
So with the recent nerf to Vigor in general would it not be nice to have some new rune options that pertain to endurance / vigor?

Superior Rune of Combat……i couldnt think of a better name haha
+25 Precision
+35 Vitality
When Hit 25% chance to gain 3 Sec of Vigor. (cooldown 10s)
+65 Precision
+100 Vitality
When you use an Elite skill you gain 50% endurance (cooldown 60s)

I know a similar rune exists -Adventurer- (but not everyone needs/wants/has access to conditions or needs power with other builds). With the increase in everyone’s damage output(WvW/PvP more particularly)…some classes could really benefit from an occasional extra dodge once in a while. Plus a rune like Combat could blend well with both power and condition builds while not forcing hybrid damage. Just a thought. Anyone with me or like/dislike the idea!?!