Guild Wars 2

since daredevil spec basically tops this in terms of dodges

It doesn’t have one. At all. Daredevil dodge uptime both burst and sustained is objectively better, the damge is better, cleanses are better… there’s really no reason at all to play Acrobatics except for a condition D/D build spamming evades.

Such is life when the specialization is poorly-designed, implemented, and built on a concept and style of play already included in a trait line, particularly one which was already weak.

I can stack 4 more sec for swiftness and go mining like a baws

The Thief trait list would look out of balance if there were only five options.

Works very nicely with an s/d build. DD might have more dodges than using acro but acro/dd has more dodges than any build you can name.

Yes, but at a certain point, “more dodges” is not worth what you’d lose by not picking one of the other lines. If we were back using the original system where you could mix and match from four or more lines then it’d be worth dabbling in, but taking both Acro and DD can get pretty redundant.

none

/15 charrs

I found it to be a pretty useful ‘bunch of good stuff all in one line’ spec when I was levelling, and then for the learning to get gud phase at max level while I was still playing around with different builds and gear to find what was best for me. Heals, condi-cleanse, stun-break, vigor, and sprint when I really needed it.

Sure, it’s not much use (or more precisely: is a luxury that you just can’t afford, given the must haves in other trait lines) when you get through to the other side; but I’ve no problem with something existing that can help newer Thief players get there.

If it gave an always on speed buff (with no weapon requirement), I’d probably slot it… though it would cause me a lot of angst deciding which must have line to ditch for it. It’d be worth it to get my Rune choice back. I often feel that the Traveler Rune’s ‘buffs’ are mocking me: ‘Boy, your class just sucks across the board *doesn’kitten [Trollface.]’

*This censoring system’s out of control: the word I wanted was ‘it’, not the ‘kitten’ that it was rendered as… much as I love kittens….

the auto stun break and extra endurance is great for getting the most mobility possible

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, but at a certain point, “more dodges” is not worth what you’d lose by not picking one of the other lines. If we were back using the original system where you could mix and match from four or more lines then it’d be worth dabbling in, but taking both Acro and DD can get pretty redundant.

It depends on your build.

I am using runes of the daredevil as example. I have a low Crit rate but still get 200+ percent damage from ferocity. More dodges means more guaranteed crits this while in armor of 3k and decent vitality.

Neither CS or DA have condition cleanses. Neither have endurance regen. The boons are limited to Fury and might out of the CS line.

With the SD build I use I can rely on pain response and Infiltrators along with all of those dodges to keep most conditions off me. This means I can free up PI in the DD line. Rather then use impairing daggers I use distracting for interrupts to get PI. This means my SOH also generates a PI which as far as I am concerned is more potent then Mug. It also makes my Impact strike elite deadlier.

I also get a nice stun break in hard to catch which in turn gives me three more guaranteed crits.

Now I can ignore the Acro line to be sure but just the loss of pain response means I have to get some condition removal from elsewhere meaning Tricksters (no boon theft) a sigil (no absorption) or EA (no PI) and the number of Crits on dodge drops meaning I need more precision.

More dodges also means more uptime on the 10 percent damage bonus off Bounding, the 10 percent condition bonus off impaling , and the 10 percent damage mitigation off dash.

Runes of evasion also work great in such a build. Every dodge gets 7 seconds of swiftness plus fury as well as inflicting a cripple strike on the enemy. Ok so I dodge (evade) and get fury , seven seconds swiftness , cripple an enemy and get the potential to heal , get vigor cleanse a condition and inflict the damge off bounding , there a lot of damge potential there. (yes there is an ICD ) A dodge can be used as an offensive weapon.

The line is niche and needs a lot of work but it not useless. There some good stuff in there.

Can someone please get that question laminated and posted on the wall of Anet’s cofee room because I would really like to know. What studio destroys half a class and leaves it that way for months only to give back an improved copy just because they ran out of ideas.

They just posted acknowledging that Acrobatics needs help and it’s going to be improved. We’ll see what they come up with.

currently is only useful for DD lotus condition dodge spam build

Acrobatics feeds fuel to DD and should only really be used when picking Bound or Lotus Training. Since the Thief doesn’t have anti-CC when using Bound/LT, Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop are must have. If the Thief picked Dash instead, then there’s no need for Acrobatics.

I use it on my S/D thief for the auto-cleanse, initiative recovery and vigor/H2C. But I sacrificed Shadow Arts for it and still take trickery. AND I don’t have HoT.

In any event, Anet just announced that they are reworking the Acrobatics trait line. Vanilla teefs rejoice \0/

It will have a known use… tomorrow when they tell us what they are doing with all the changes. This is why we love Grouch, he is good at communicating with us when something important is coming.

Yes. Instead of a bit of rework to Acro they must do a lot of rework and try to differentiate it from daredevil.

To talk seriously, though, about it…

Look at the current PvP Elementalist meta. Earth and Water are basically mandatory trait lines for them to take, for the defensive applications. It’s how they go into battle and sustain. Thieves don’t really have a trait line like that, currently. Acrobatics is as close as it gets, but it’s just not very good. My expectation is that they’ll change Acrobatics to be a stronger, entirely defensive line to improve Thief survivability.

Will people want to use it? It will have to be pretty strong to get people to look away from Deadly Arts, Trickery or Daredevil. But the potential for them to make it pretty strong is there. Elementalists pass up damage boosting traits from Fire and Air right now to take their defensive/survivable Earth and Water traits. Some thieves won’t want to take a defensive trait line, but if it’s good enough, it’ll be chosen. There’s some Elementalists out there too who’d love nothing more than to be able to play a glass staff Ele in PvP, too.

Who knows, maybe we’ll be able to come out of this with some kind of weird Cele sustain Thief build. That would be… something, right?

Since Daredevil is basically Acro+, it’d be interesting to replace Acro with something else. I thing some sort of lifesteal build would be interesting, as it would be a non-tanky defensive measure that still fits in with the general thief playstyle.

It’s good for increasing the amount of deep inner sadness within your heart.

I use it with the dodges from Daredevil for perma-swiftness when ore/lumber farming, but that’s about it. I used to take it for better survivability (“moar evadez”), but I’ve gotten a lot more sustain out of Invigorating Precision than I ever did from Acro.

Since Daredevil is basically Acro+, it’d be interesting to replace Acro with something else. I thing some sort of lifesteal build would be interesting, as it would be a non-tanky defensive measure that still fits in with the general thief playstyle.

Always keep in mind that DD is an Elite spec, and you can only have one elite spec at a time, so anything DD provides will be locked out of future specs. The class needs Acro to be returned to its former state so that other specs can continue to use those benefits.

Acro returned to its former state would push DD into being overpowered. Acro and S/D got nerfed entirely because it was so strong in the right hands. DD’s forgiving gameplay and lack of consistent tempo paired with high damage modifiers to stack with Acro’s former massive might gain potential would make Tr/Acro/DD S/D or condi D/D almost instantly the objectively best builds the thief could possibly have.

Shoddy design is what lead us to Daredevil occupying the same space as Acrobatics, and what is inhibiting the growth and fair buffs to core Acrobatics. Since ANet is definitely not going to be willing to scrap their glorious elite specialization brainchild, I suggest they delete Acrobatics and associated abilities entirely and replace it with a teleport-happy build called the Escape Artist.

Acro returned to its former state would push DD into being overpowered.

Maybe so, if so, DD would need to be rebalanced as well. It’s their fault for screwing the whole thing up in the first place. Nerf the parts of the DD spec that would become overpowered so that they remain at the same relative level, and then buff it up again in other ways that are not treading on Acro’s back. Regardless, Acro needs to return to what it originally was.

I suggest they delete Acrobatics and associated abilities entirely and replace it with a teleport-happy build called the Escape Artist.

No.

They physically can’t return Acrobatics to what it previously was, however. The trait line itself had the entire identity and concept of the Daredevil solidified and operational. Extra power from the Daredevil would just push the build into being senselessly overpowered when combined or always individually weaker than possible when not. As long as the design intent truly overlaps in such a way, and other trait options do not and are not balanced in this light, there will be no happy medium without drastic conceptual overhauls, which frankly, ANet clearly shows they are unwilling to do at any cost to the game’s integrity.

acrobatic line is probably worst line in game lol. that all i can honestly say on the topic.

Froptimus.6741:

… but I’ve gotten a lot more sustain out of Invigorating Precision than I ever did from Acro.

Yeah, it’s a shame that the awesome IP is in CS, where it clashes with the awesome No Quarter, rather than in Acro where it wouldn’t clash with much of anything important.

I did like the heals from Acro, but Pain Response wasn’t enough when I was really in trouble (long CD), and Assassin’s Reward could be very good except that it fails precisely when you need it the very most; out of Ini, blown RFI and it’s on CD, and getting dogpiled [me running vanilla P/P].

That’s when I resort to my ‘Oh kitten!’ button (Daggerstorm): with IP this usually fills my health bar back up in no time flat and keeps it at max for the duration of Daggerstorm. With no IP but both of those Acro heals put together, I’d drop dead part way through the Daggerstorm cast (PR on CD, AR not doing anything since I’m not spending any Ini).

If the reworked Acro has a meaningful always-on speed buff, for all Thieves regardless of weapon choice; and AR heals upon causing damage, rather than spending Ini, then that’ll look pretty good to me. Ideally, just replace AR with IP, and IP with something rubbish – so that we can use NQ without angst.

EDIT: This is why I use SoM rather than the Withdraw I’d prefer, since I use NQ rather than IP… but it’s nowhere near as good as IP is.