Guild Wars 2

Ok so I really want to make this polite and formal; but I don’t know where to start so I’m just going to be direct with questions and comments.

-What is the thief good for?
~Base stats are pretty bad, and every class seems to beat the Thief in what it’s supposed to do. For example; You can make a top condition build, but it will never beat a Mesmer condition build. (which is also combined with cloaking, basically a Mesmer can play thief.) You make a top toughness build, nearly every class can make a better toughness build.(Rangers being the exception because you seem to hate them). Make a Crit build and a warrior will just laugh at you.(Clearly in love with them since I see more buffs than nerfs in every patch) and ect. The description of the thief if I remember correctly(by Anets def.), is one who excels at stealth and brings opponents down using venom’s and traps. I find this hard to believe since other classes are better at doing this if they choose too.(using skills that do the same as venom’s, traps, and stealth skills. I’m not saying other classes have traps and venom’s in case that wasn’t clear)
~The recent patch(I think sky pirates) was actually pretty nice for the thief. Adding torment was a good, and made a good difference. My disappoint with that patch is that only one skill does torment and the massive buff Necro and Mesmer got.(Warrior of course got buffed also, but not as much the old patches so I do appreciate the effort. also I don’t disagree with the buff those two classes got, it was ok. Just a tad overboard. Just a tad.) Thief was always squishy which is fine, but it’s a little too squishy now. All I’m asking for is a small buff to make thieves the best at what they’re supposed to be best at. (maybe add a cure conditions to other classes heals, but again don’t make it so that it makes the buff completely pointless

-Did you have a bad experience with a ranger?(Maybe an Ex played that class?)
~So the ranger is just bad. Just plain bad. I avoid fighting them because I feel so bad for them. Every patch seems to nerf them in some way. Which makes what ever small buff put completely pointless. I truly think they should get a buff. I should never be able to dance in the middle of combat and still kill someone.(warriors seem to do this often also just saying) I recommend a decent buff in damage and a high one in toughness. And a big buff on both the bows. (especially on range). (why can’t they use rifles either? Take out great sword and add rifle so maybe it could make sense?)

-About the Warrior……
~debuff……a reaalllll nice one.
~mind explaining why a warrior does more damage with a bow than a ranger???
~why they do more conditions than a Necro ??
~Can heal better than a guardian???
~Can burst better than a thief?
~Honestly I’ve seen warriors take on three people and win. I don’t think that’s supposed to happen….

-Mesmer
~ they’re cool. But stealth and conditions really shouldn’t be so powerful(for a thief yes). I once took 16 stacks of confusion with a few stacks of bleed, and some other stuff. I used two skills and took around 7k damage(just from the confusion I mean)
~maybe just a small nerf on that

I haven’t investigated much of the other classes but from what I see guardians and elementalist seem pretty good. Engie’s can maybe get a nerf a small in the toughness, but it’s not to bad since the damage output seems to make up for the high toughness. If they’re something I’m missing please say so and if you disagree please tell me. I’m really open minded. Sorry for posting this on the thief forum also. I got a bit carried away. Well I would like some input, and tbh idk how this forum stuff works but I would love for the devs to see this. So give it some attention please???

Thanks.

@OP A lot of your “points” are either really weak or simply misleading.

NightRaven.6201:

-What is the thief good for?

The Thief’s role and purpose is defined by good players playing Thief.

The fact that it is not clearly defined is what frustrates other players and rationalizes all the nerfs we’ve received.

A lot of good players playing Thief that they are so good that they can surprise you that some kitten y build actually works it’s because it compliments their play style really well.

Unlike other profession, if you choose a Guardian for example, you are expected to do a specific role because the profession is good at it — that’s very boring.

Thieves are good for trolling in WvW, blast finishers and mass stealthing.

SMH

ISHYGDDT

Bacon Please.8407:

SMH

ISHYGDDT

whut?

You feel bad for the ranger for being nerfed? Every class but the thief seems to be nerfed one way or another. The mesmer only got 1 torment skill on the scepter and shatter builds took a hit since as the signet of life got nerfed. The real class that needs nerfing is the thief. However this won’t happen as most the nerf decisions seem to be based on PvP (mainly a thieves view of PvP) and not PvE or WvW where they actually ruin builds and make people’s hard earned armour, weapons and trinkets worthless. I think it’s time stealth (for all classes) had a consequence as thieves especially can stack it far to high.

Where have you seen those Warriors?
Plz tell me their names asap!

@ Coy Thieves that stack cloak are usually pretty weak honestly I love fighting C/D build thieves. I think that balances the cloak, and aren’t thieves supposed to stack cloak???? That’s pretty normal isn’t it? Also please enlighten me as to how every class is Nerfed compared to the thief. I mean that honestly, not in a rude way. Also yes I feel bad for rangers. The other classes not so much; I do, but just not as much. Thanks for the Mesmer thing btw I didn’t know that, though my opinion still stands in which I shouldn’t see a Mesmer playing thief. Same way I shouldn’t see a warrior playing ranger. I think Mesmer are fine tho. Though I did feel bad about the rune of life thing, heard it was annoying.(My best friend is a Mesmer)

@Cyhann I promise you I will come back to this post and give you a name lol So just keep checking. I’ll admit those kind of warriors are rare, but not that rare I’m sure I’ll have something for you tomorrow.

@Zachary I completely agree, and that’s my issue. What if I’m a serious player, and don’t want to troll? shouldn’t thieves(rouge/assassin) be masters of 1v1’s? With high burst/dps on a focused target? Thieves are ok I just feel like they aren’t thieves. idk I feel like to be good at this game you only have two options. Tank or glass cannon.(unless you’re a warrior cause then you’re both w/o the glass part lol) And for thieves we aren’t the best Tanks nor the best Glass Cannons. We’re not bad, far from it lol but we’re not good either. So in my personal opinion I think every class should excel at something, isn’t that the point of picking a profession anyways? Meh I feel like I’m not expressing myself correctly. Thieves are good, just not at what they’re supposed to be good at. That’s just my personal opinion. Meh sorry Zacchary most of this isn’t directed at you it’s kinda just a comment on my post lol you just sorta spawned the idea for me, and I got carried away.

@bacon please- I have no idea what that means lol sorry.

How do I put this lightly Warrior is a heavy arms and armor class the are supposed to be laughing at you.

@dusanyu lol very true and I can deal with that. And the recent patch was actually a really nice one tbh not perfect but ok. Really my issue with warriors is that they seem to be able to do everything. It’s as if they’re every class in one(by that I mean they can do any build and it works fine). They’re not that bad tbh, really I’m prob biased against warriors just cause I’m jealous of their flexibility in terms of builds. Really my best way of proper expressing the way I feel about the warrior is the Bow example. Why does a warrior do more damage with a bow than a ranger??(Though tbh the rangers downed ability to throw dirt does more damage than a ranger with a bow lol cause in the world of tyria, dirt is more dangerous than an arrow). If I get wrecked as thief or most other classes against a warrior idm really as long as it’s melee or something. When I see a warrior start flipping around doing conditions and high dps…I get a tad confused lol Though truly idm warriors i just feel like they should be….warriors lol (again my personal opinion which is like bleh, thanks for being polite btw and sorry if this didn’t come off as polite i meant it in a joking tone for the most part)

I don’t feel bad for rangers. Why? because I have an 80 and they really didn’t get hit that hard, and actually got buffed in a lot of ways. Sure, 1 build (beastmaster) that was really good got brought down to par with the rest, and maybe it was in the wrong way, but it’s still a viable build. They got weapon buffs for off-hand axe, which was decent already, and now actually pretty good. They’re bow that was already terrible (shortbow) got nerfed more, when really it needed a buff to the other 3 abilities it has (it doesn’t just have an auto attack and occasional evade you know) and a nerf to the auto attack. Really, rangers came out ok. But this is the thief forum, so let’s talk about mesmers (I know, totally makes sense right?).
Mesmers are the perfect class imo. They can specialize in anything they want. They can go bunker, glass cannon, condi, whatever they want, and be good at it. It has one of the best condi builds in the game (confusion), one of the best glass cannon builds in the game (shatter), a really good sustained damage build (phantasm), an amazing bunker build (the immortal mesmer build by pyroatheist), and a great healing/support build (mantra heals). Compare this to the thief:
One of the best glass canon builds in the game (d/p perma-stealth), decent condi build (d/d or p/d caltrops bleed build) that suffers due to only having 1 condition that is easily removed, a decent tank build (s/d evade build), an ok/bad support build (venom share) that is only good in small groups, and absolutely no zerg build.
Obviously, mesmer has the better deal here. Rangers suffer from the same fate: they have very few viable builds. Sure, you’ll always have the variations, but the baseline build is the same. That is why rangers and thieves need buffs.
I would go through every class, but that would take too long, so I’ll make two categories and put classes into those categories: balanced and unbalanced. Unbalanced means very few viable builds, leading to people who play the class being pigeonholed. Balanced means many viable builds that allow the players to pick and choose the playstyle they like. So,
Unbalanced:
Thief, Ranger, necro (debatable), ele (debatable)
Balanced:
warrior, mesmer, guardian, engi (debatable, class I know least about).
The debatables: necro has power and condi, but not much in between. However, they have many ways to play each, so they are pigeonholed into types of builds, but not how they play those types. This leaves it to be debatable which one they should be in. Ele has two builds: Bunker and support. They have no way of being glass cannon. Sure, they can spec for it, but it won’t be as effective as they can be. They also have the same as necro where for bunker, there are many ways to do it, and many variations. I could see this go either way. Engi has the HgH build, turret build (that is much more viable now), ‘nades build, bomb kit/teldo build, and flamethrower build. However, many of these builds are condition, so it’s debatable that they’re pigeonholed into conditions, however, there are so many forms of it you can pretty much play however you like. I have also seen the occasional zerker rifle build, but not sure how viable it is.

So, this post turned really long, but it is the views of 1 person who has played every class somewhat extensively (except engi, who is only 29 and hasn’t gone into pvp yet) on the balance of classes in the game based on Arena Net’s stated intentions to make every class able to play every type of build.

NightRaven.6201:

@Zachary I completely agree, and that’s my issue. What if I’m a serious player, and don’t want to troll? shouldn’t thieves(rouge/assassin) be masters of 1v1’s? With high burst/dps on a focused target? Thieves are ok I just feel like they aren’t thieves. idk I feel like to be good at this game you only have two options. Tank or glass cannon.(unless you’re a warrior cause then you’re both w/o the glass part lol) And for thieves we aren’t the best Tanks nor the best Glass Cannons. We’re not bad, far from it lol but we’re not good either. So in my personal opinion I think every class should excel at something, isn’t that the point of picking a profession anyways? Meh I feel like I’m not expressing myself correctly. Thieves are good, just not at what they’re supposed to be good at. That’s just my personal opinion. Meh sorry Zacchary most of this isn’t directed at you it’s kinda just a comment on my post lol you just sorta spawned the idea for me, and I got carried away.

This is my build that I normally use nowadays.

It has worked well for me in both WvW and PvE. Raw DPS sucks but it uses plenty of evades and has some access to might and initiative regen. It definitely can hold up its own against 95% of Orr.

Thieves are fine, especially in WvW. In PvE, they’re good, but hard to play right. In PvP they’re extremely difficult to play well (because you can’t cap a point while stealthed). It really comes down to knowing what is going on around you, and using that information to avoid damage and react when you need to react (not 2 seconds later). This basic skill is necessary for all classes, but more for thieves because the margin for error is so much lower.

Also, some of the things you are citing are really L2P issues. Warriors, for example give me no trouble as a mesmer, and relatively little trouble as a thief. The general consensus on warriors is that they are great in PvE, solid in WvW and nearly useless in PvP. The reason is that although they do damage, their moves are incredibly obvious. By knowing their moves and paying attention, you can avoid ever taking any major damage. They are also much more vulnerable to snares and kiting than most classes. Also most warrior builds have mediocre condition removal.

Regarding things thieves do well/better than other classes, it is really all about stealth/evasions. Their dps is good, their burst is great, but their ability to avoid damage, escape combat and reset fights is unsurpassed (eles and mesmers come closest)…since those things only help a bit in PvP…thieves have a harder time there. In WvW those things are very useful, and thieves do great.

@Coy (sorry don’t know how to directly reply) Thank you! lol You truly read my mind that’s exactly what I’m trying to say! i’m not to great at saying it. lol I completely agree with everything. It’s that unbalanced part that I’m trying to bring to light. It’s something a lot of people know but not spoken of. I don’t see it often in the forums so I thought I should make a post with it. Though I really wish your response right now was the thing at the top(is there a way I can make it more viewable?) but thank you for your input and clarifying things.

@bobross Very very true I also agree, especially with that last part. really I’m just being a kid tbh and I know it. I’m asking for a perfect balance and ect. (If anything look at Coy’s reply for a better idea)which I know is incredibly hard to make. In the end I’m really just asking for balanced classes, with proper stats to follow. Conceptually speaking that is mehhh sorry I’m really bad at explaining lol

@ AAHHH MY BAD I MEANT CRAIG NOT COY SORRY FLIP THAT IN MY LAST TWO RESPONSES

NightRaven.6201:

I once took 16 stacks of confusion with a few stacks of bleed, and some other stuff. I used two skills and took around 7k damage(just from the confusion I mean)

Are you freaking kidding me?! 16 stacks of confusion and you keep using skills like a moron. Confusion got nerfed because of face rollers like you. Thanks alot.

On synthesis, you want a class unbeatable on 1v1 situations and able to disengage 95% of the time if you are half brained,

Agreed, please Anet give this guy a class to kill anyone at anytime and be able to escape when thing goes bad, this will be utter fun for the rest !!!

Oh wait.. this was always like this…

@Craig.2403

Shatter does not hit that hard as most people think, and it’s extremly easy to avoid, way more easy than a backstab,

Confusion has been nerfed to the ground, mesmers are not good at conditions, engineers and necros are much better,

The inmortal mesmer has been nerfed to the ground, 50% to be more precise,

Phantasm mesmer is a duelist, designed to win any 1v1 encounter, it lose a lot of efectiveness the more players are involved in the fight, in fact it’s a awful build,

Hard to believe you played a mesmer,

This part of the forum is always the same, isn’t?

We tell the rest “l2p” but the only class we played is a thief, we tell the rest “stop crying” but we are the first ones crying,

NightRaven.6201:

I once took 16 stacks of confusion with a few stacks of bleed, and some other stuff. I used two skills and took around 7k damage(just from the confusion I mean)

…

you should have died for using skills with 16 stacks confusion. Just for the laughs.

clearly a l2p issue.

@Mere Image. Ok just so you know the confusion damage I got was from a friend in a PvP map a friendly 1v1. I complemented her build and she wanted to show me how much damage the confusion did. Why would I ever do that? I was just stating something. Please don’t assume things it just makes an kitten out of the both of us.

@Engles Have you ever played any other MMORPGS??? Seen the assassin classes on those? that’s what I’m talking about. I’m talking about classes playing the role they were supposedly designed for, and being good at them. And from what I’ve seen Mesmer are excellent at conditions, I have no clue what your talking about. I made condition build with one w/o even trying so maybe you should l2p yourself?? Hell If I can stack bleed,torment,cripple,daze,and confusion; I think….I think that’s a good condition build. Buuuuttt idk you tell me oh great one(also realize that this build stops you from running or attacking unless you want to kill yourself in the process) OHHH and lets not forget that with that build you can cloak and get awaayyy!!! hmmm why does this ring a bell…. OH and I quote “a class unbeatable on 1v1 situations and able to disengage 95% of the time if you are half brained,
Agreed, please Anet give this guy a class to kill anyone at anytime and be able to escape when thing goes bad”.Please stop flattering yourself, it’s ridiculous.

@blutsein I did die lol as stated earlier a friend was just showing me something. I’m addressing the issue that a class supposedly meant for conditions, is inferior to other condition builds by classes that aren’t meant for them.

For the record with my thief I destroy most I come across. Issue I see is the thief is as what craig mentioned earlier. Pigeon holed. Not many options are given. Tbh I haven’t seen a single thief build to beat mine.(Yes it’s completely my build, no I didn’t take something off the internet(nor Have I ever seen it posted) and no I’m not posting it cause i’m selfish that way. Cry about it.) Thing is I hate playing my build. I can’t change it though if I want to keeping killing as much as I do. I’m saying if you’re going to let other classes play other classes(Thief going tanky, or warrior becoming a ranger) then make sure it’s on fair grounds ooorrrrrr keep it normal and let classes be what they’re meant to be. Also please take note I’m saying this for the other classes as well. Everyone has nerfs, and I never said the thief has the most nerfs. I believe a good amount of classes could use buffs in some areas, and a nerf in a few others.(Thief def. included in case that’s not clear). Bottom line define the classes and make them balanced. That is my point in this. A balanced game. Yup crazy idea isn’t it?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

@OP A lot of your “points” are either really weak or simply misleading.

NightRaven.6201:

-What is the thief good for?

The Thief’s role and purpose is defined by good players playing Thief.

The fact that it is not clearly defined is what frustrates other players and rationalizes all the nerfs we’ve received.

A lot of good players playing Thief that they are so good that they can surprise you that some kitten y build actually works it’s because it compliments their play style really well.

Unlike other profession, if you choose a Guardian for example, you are expected to do a specific role because the profession is good at it — that’s very boring.

Uh-huh, yeah, no.

Thief is a mobile roamer in PvP and a combo-field spammer in PvE, plus he can cleans adds fairly effectively with Dagger Storm.

That’s all, it’s very simple and clear once you play a bit more.

Seeing many bunker Thieves in PvP?

YuiRS.8129:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

@OP A lot of your “points” are either really weak or simply misleading.

NightRaven.6201:

-What is the thief good for?

The Thief’s role and purpose is defined by good players playing Thief.

The fact that it is not clearly defined is what frustrates other players and rationalizes all the nerfs we’ve received.

A lot of good players playing Thief that they are so good that they can surprise you that some kitten y build actually works it’s because it compliments their play style really well.

Unlike other profession, if you choose a Guardian for example, you are expected to do a specific role because the profession is good at it — that’s very boring.

Uh-huh, yeah, no.

Thief is a mobile roamer in PvP and a combo-field spammer in PvE, plus he can cleans adds fairly effectively with Dagger Storm.

That’s all, it’s very simple and clear once you play a bit more.

Seeing many bunker Thieves in PvP?

Learn 2 Read.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

A lot of good players playing Thief that they are so good that they can surprise you that some kitten y build actually works it’s because it compliments their play style really well.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The Thief’s role and purpose is defined by good players playing Thief.

@Sir Vincent III

Thank you I’ll take that into consideration, and thank you for being so courteous. It is something I’ve taken note of, so it does ring a bell. I suppose I get that feeling just because I choose not play the thief as expected. Sadly I have only recently began to experiment with the guardian, so I would prefer not too comment on things I don’t know about. However; I can very easily picture what you’re saying to be true. Thank you for your insight.

a condition build for the mesmer?that is stronger than a bleeding thief?u kidding right?mesmer has after overnerf of confusion nothing left!torment is only triggered if u block with a scepter and get hit. confusion is hard to stack with the bb nerf and last not very long and is way less triggered with the bb nerf. toughness build for mesmers are also not that strong.
2 skills with 16 stacks 7 is a lie even before the overnerf! i wouldnt even get u 7k with 25 stacks! i got maybe once someting high as 5000. most of the time the ticks with 16 + stacks are around 1.4 – 2.2k. engineers could stack confusion way quicker than us and deal maybe such high numbers, not mesmers!
also to get 16 stacks a mesmer has to use multipe glam fields and hit u with scepter 3 for the full attack.all of that can be dodged. u are a thief, so stealth and back off for 3 sec and u are back to 6 stacks not 16.

u might wanna get to know the other classes first before whining about thief being up.once you are level 80 full exotic gear go to wvw(not spvp) and check out what dmg u can do. there is a reason why people qq about thieves all the time.

pve though u guys could use a buff.

@ selan First learn how to read so that will explain the confusion, second the fact that I can accomplish that build (while using it effectively) and you find it impossible where as mesmer isn’t even my main class leads me to believe you need to learn more about the game mechs. Also I run full carrion top level armor with 5 legendary weaps (D/D P/P and SB) with a Major rank. (And I’m a casual WvW player cause I like having a life)I never complained about the damage of the thief, and I sympathize with your kitten feelings about the nerf for the mesmer, honest. Also for the record bleed thief is a joke. I don’t even consider it a condition build. Honestly impo Anyone who gets killed by a bleed theif/ One shot thief/ or cloak and dagger thief needs to get a better understanding of the game; with the exception of course of certain classes and being caught off guard. (Although that doesn’t apply for the one-shot build(honestly shouldn’t even be called a build) because if they catch off guard it’s a simply as evading and healing) annnnddd I’m bored so I’m prob. not coming back to the thread lol

Idk why they censored it but I put buthurt (spelled bad on purpose in case that’s not clear)

NightRaven.6201:

@ selan First learn how to read so that will explain the confusion, second the fact that I can accomplish that build (while using it effectively) and you find it impossible where as mesmer isn’t even my main class leads me to believe you need to learn more about the game mechs. Also I run full carrion top level armor with 5 legendary weaps (D/D P/P and SB) with a Major rank. (And I’m a casual WvW player cause I like having a life)I never complained about the damage of the thief, and I sympathize with your kitten feelings about the nerf for the mesmer, honest. Also for the record bleed thief is a joke. I don’t even consider it a condition build. Honestly impo Anyone who gets killed by a bleed theif/ One shot thief/ or cloak and dagger thief needs to get a better understanding of the game; with the exception of course of certain classes and being caught off guard. (Although that doesn’t apply for the one-shot build(honestly shouldn’t even be called a build) because if they catch off guard it’s a simply as evading and healing) annnnddd I’m bored so I’m prob. not coming back to the thread lol

uh never aid i find it impossible,did i? no i don’t thinks so.and im not talking spvp here or pve. im talking wvw which u don’t play often so thats why we misunderstand each other. and bleeding wvw is quite effective with food buffs and all that. i don’t get killed by bleeding thief in spvp, but in wvw when your cleansing is on cd bleeding can be a problem.
and yes u get hit with 8k backstabs by class cannon permastealth thieves, doesn’t one shot me as my rabid gear makes me a little tougher, but the burst dmg in wvw by thieves gets really high.
i agree that if thief was given more cond dmg there would be more viable builds out there. same with mesmers though as confusion is our only condition we can spec into. bleeding is very little and torment..oh well only in a 1v1 situation.