Guild Wars 2

Are you using Venoms now?
*laughs hysterically*

I must confess…
I used them once… long ago…
In Arah… for immobilizing that slime.

QQ-disclaimer: If you don’t play WvW, the following post is not for your eyes.

Welp, you play venom or bring another class to a zerg.
Ofc you can still blobb around with this class in zerker gear, and I guess, unless you bump into a ranger or engi, roaming is fine for thief as well.

The only useful thing a thief provides (and to justify its presence in a organized zerg) is venoms, blindspam and poison spam. For all of this dire gear works perfectly fine. It does not matter how low the number on thiefs’ screens get, as long as they provide a nice condi-umpf for the warris/guardians around them and disrupt the enemies zergs’ dps and healing. For doing so, they don’t really need stealth and can stay somewhere close to the melee-train, orbiting it, but not staying inside it.

Sure, you now can start to argue “I do high burst damage, and can stealth, so I shall jump onto merely downed melee’s and finish them.” / “I can attack their backline” / “I can go into daggerstorm and throw a bunch of animations which 90% of does not do any damage, while reflecting projectiles and dying in aoe’s”, but on the long run all this banter does not matter since a) you’re squishy as kitten and only have so much cd’s (initiative) before you serve opponents as rally-bot and b) a warrior / guardian / ele or necro would have filled your spot way more effective.

The only thing that offers thieves a place – for exactly 1 thief – are thief’s unique buffs (venoms). If it were not for them this class would have become insignificant 2 nerfs ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate this class, but you should consider that the buff you got there for venoms’ cd is one of the few things left that saves you from a insta-kick from each zerg-comp you can think of.

as much as i agree that venoms can contribute much more
still i dont hear/see ppl calling for venom thieves (ele/guard/warrior/necro/mesmer – yes!)

group that realize that venom can buff their melee train with 2k condi dmg and cc
and thief that knows how to use venom can basicaly put constant cc on the enemy along side the poison field and ganking some low hpwhile venom on cd (as the zerk thief can do)

but you must to be in the melee group or you wont be able to controle with whom your venoms share

Venom share is an incredibly fun trait to play in a group in WvW.

Dat cd reduction YES! Now venoms are fixed, forget the trait investment and the overlapping venom functions lets just lower the cd for those condi builds >.>

Wouldn’t even call this a Band-Aid anymore, they need to either solve venoms from all angles or move to something else because it’s just been a big waste atm. They could of lowered the cooldown over a year ago and observed it to make sure nothing became blatantly op but I guess number changes are an obstacle course from hell.

Even in dire, thief survivability in zerg sucks since he has to give up utilities for venoms to buff 4 others. Considering how fast condis are cleansed in zerg, I don’t see how venom share thief is any good in comparison to the usual zerg classes. Maybe my view is affected by my dislike of venom share gameplay. It’s passive as kitten, the only engaging part is when you try to not die without your utilities.

Anet should rename Venom Share to Walking Venom Dispenser.

:/ I feel like this was just made so we could kitten about saying every patch is a nerf and we never get buffs…
Also to hint at what they want us to play.

Arantheal.7396:

Ofc you can still blobb around with this class in zerker gear, and I guess, unless you bump into a ranger or engi, roaming is fine for thief as well.

The only useful thing a thief provides (and to justify its presence in a organized zerg) is venoms, blindspam and poison spam.

Rangers are the easiest class to kill for me, in general.
Zerg thieves: Shortbow 2 – Blastfinisher. Can blast an ele waterfield twice or thrice, a ranger’s waterfield 5 times, healing for ~2k each time. and it’s not just waterfields, also fire: stacking might, static: stacking swiftness and so on. Rather useful stuff for a zerg.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Even in dire, thief survivability in zerg sucks since he has to give up utilities for venoms to buff 4 others. Considering how fast condis are cleansed in zerg, I don’t see how venom share thief is any good in comparison to the usual zerg classes. Maybe my view is affected by my dislike of venom share gameplay. It’s passive as kitten, the only engaging part is when you try to not die without your utilities.

Anet should rename Venom Share to Walking Venom Dispenser.

you forget this

use immobilizer venom on 4 other members
than catch some melee and attack him
the group cant cleanse 3*4=12 times in 2 sec so you probably will catch him and kill him
so make it now with chill also and you probably catch 3-5 enemies which give your group the advantag

Jana.6831:

Arantheal.7396:

Ofc you can still blobb around with this class in zerker gear, and I guess, unless you bump into a ranger or engi, roaming is fine for thief as well.

The only useful thing a thief provides (and to justify its presence in a organized zerg) is venoms, blindspam and poison spam.

Rangers are the easiest class to kill for me, in general.
Zerg thieves: Shortbow 2 – Blastfinisher. Can blast an ele waterfield twice or thrice, a ranger’s waterfield 5 times, healing for ~2k each time. and it’s not just waterfields, also fire: stacking might, static: stacking swiftness and so on. Rather useful stuff for a zerg.

And what holds a rabid / dire venom sharing thief back from equipping the shortbow, along with P/P or D/P?
Same blasts as the zerker version, but not a rally-bot and useful for their zerg.

Also thieves are not the only medium armor class with loads of blasts.
If I have to decide between a venom-sharing thief in dire or a healing bomb engi with thumper in clerics, then I’d have a tough decision, since both are easy prey to cc, coming from their lack of self-sustaining stability, even tho they both bring great support and utility. But if you ask to decide between cleric engi and zerker thief, the decision is obvious.

Well, I just answered your “Without venoms thieves are useless”.
No other class can spam blast like thieves, no matter whether heavy, light or medium geared.
It’s your choice whether or not YOU want a thief in “your” zerg, but know their potential before you claim anything (especially on the thief forums). And actually thieves don’t have to be zerker, they can wear other gear too.

rogerwilko.6895:

I must confess…
I used them once… long ago…

Traps too, to my great shame.

messiah.1908:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Even in dire, thief survivability in zerg sucks since he has to give up utilities for venoms to buff 4 others. Considering how fast condis are cleansed in zerg, I don’t see how venom share thief is any good in comparison to the usual zerg classes. Maybe my view is affected by my dislike of venom share gameplay. It’s passive as kitten, the only engaging part is when you try to not die without your utilities.

Anet should rename Venom Share to Walking Venom Dispenser.

you forget this

use immobilizer venom on 4 other members
than catch some melee and attack him
the group cant cleanse 3*4=12 times in 2 sec so you probably will catch him and kill him
so make it now with chill also and you probably catch 3-5 enemies which give your group the advantag

Too bad a player can’t control on which hits he uses the venom charges so currently your group uses all immob on the guy in 2s unless they just stand around and time the applications, which obviously doesn’t happen on the scale to effectively utilise all possible applications. Just to remind you, immob is condi and can be cleansed at once.

few people focusing 1 person, they always have the advantage. If you compare group vs group, 1 guard in enemy team completely counters whole venom share build without sacrificing that much while the thief has utilities on cooldown and mediocre dmg output.

I think Anet decided that if they place another thief nerf along with buffs for all other classes inside the same patchnotes, it would be too much. So they just buffed something useles. But next time they will feel free to nerf stealth or dodge again. Cos “YOU ALREADY THAT 5 SEC VENOM BUFF, WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED!!!111??”.

It helps when I use devourer venom :\

I use venom as often as I can on my thief! Yes indeed.

Basilisk Venom is so useful. -nod nod-

The argument I always hear for venom share is that it can hold someone down while your group trains them, but IMO if your group of 5+ trains 1 guy down and your group is reasonably competent, I’m pretty sure he will die regardless of whether that thief shared venoms. In that case, you’re sacrificing all your damage, utility and escapes for something your group could already do, which seems rather silly. Again, that’s just my 2 cents, if it works for you then by all means carry on.

Devourer and Basilisk venoms are the only useful venoms

Maybe we’re looking at it incorrectly. Venoms reminds me of the mantras of mesmers. However, Mantras are majorly PvE – most mantras are only taken in the favor of utility for pvp, over complete optimization in a build. (There are exceptions like optimizing mantras and taking the heal mantra, but it requires plenty of practice to use it to its fullest potential)

What if venoms are meant for PvE? Condition damage PvE? Certainly no use in dungeons, eh. Maybe solo roaming in open world?

/shrug

Arikyali.5804:

What if venoms are meant for PvE? Condition damage PvE? Certainly no use in dungeons, eh. Maybe solo roaming in open world?

/shrug

Out of 5 venoms, one applies a damaging condition (and 3 whole stacks for a 40s utility, lawl). No, Poison is not a damaging condition – it’s a heal debuff that does extremely minor damage.

So I’m not sure what you’re talking about here. That’s not meant as a dig at you, it’s aimed at venom design.

Arikyali.5804:

What if venoms are meant for PvE?
/shrug

I doubt they put that much thought into this ‘skill balancing’
IMO they are meant for niche pvp / wvw setups… immo / etc.

Arikyali.5804:

What if venoms are meant for PvE? Condition damage PvE? Certainly no use in dungeons, eh. Maybe solo roaming in open world?

/shrug

They (anet) already believe venoms to be for a condition build. It’s been said by carl in the ready up videos worded along the lines of “now you can buff your party’s condition damage using your own stats”.

NinjaEd.3946:

Arikyali.5804:

What if venoms are meant for PvE? Condition damage PvE? Certainly no use in dungeons, eh. Maybe solo roaming in open world?

/shrug

They (anet) already believe venoms to be for a condition build. It’s been said by carl in the ready up videos worded along the lines of “now you can buff your party’s condition damage using your own stats”.

I bet he forgot to mention how MAAASSIIVE that buff to your party’s condition damage is.

x.X’

Or Venom are to risky to play until a a good thief starts to use it. Then every one follows like sheep. I smell lots of sheep here.

alot of posts sounds like you think you have to pick 5 venoms… actually venoms is at it’s peak when it comes to GvG or to some degree WvW assist parties that focuses single targets outside the main group and since you in that case use TS communication and is in a party with the others in your assist team you get together, share venom (immob and stun) and then just wreck one guy at a time giving your meleeball less things freecasting them from the side. With those 2 venoms you still got room for SR and shadowstep for much needed escape

Xhean.3452:

alot of posts sounds like you think you have to pick 5 venoms… actually venoms is at it’s peak when it comes to GvG or to some degree WvW assist parties that focuses single targets outside the main group and since you in that case use TS communication and is in a party with the others in your assist team you get together, share venom (immob and stun) and then just wreck one guy at a time giving your meleeball less things freecasting them from the side. With those 2 venoms you still got room for SR and shadowstep for much needed escape

So far every time I see a venom share thief vid, it’s all venoms, yeah there might be vids with less venoms but I just haven’t seen them yet. Maybe that’s cos people who put 6pts in a single trait line want to make full use of venoms?

I actually gave venoms a bit of a run the other day in a condition build I used for the new Silverwastes map since so many enemies have high armor. Condis do seem to melt the mobs in this area, but I’m still not sold on venoms…

Leeching venoms helps dmg as well as healing. I’ve never really considered venoms a condi build.
Healing, poison, chill, immobilize, torment/vulnerability, stun

Honestly for zerging I would run 5 venoms and full pvt or maybe sentinels. Your leeching venom dmg will be ~400 dmg tics.

Skelk, ice drake, devourer, spider, basilisk
So much control, so much healing tics, so much dmg tics.

I’m just now trying thieves again but I remember Xsorus’ ole venom share build and it seemed to do pretty well if you got the jump on folks. The decreased cool down along with Quick Venoms brings venom use to every 32 seconds. It will be interesting to try that build out again.

Build references:
GW2 Skills Net-
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmKN3aS0E95EB3DnC1n6VosaPupNjJA-jACBoOCi0CBikGMTqIasFTFRjV3ATxiIq2roIa1SBso0I-e
Video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBj4pEnMzNA