Guild Wars 2

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yes you said “many” when it should be “some” because by simply checking the Necro forum, you’ll know that you should say “some.”

You say “many Necro” yet “a lot go Rabid.”

Either it sucks for “many” which implies they don’t take Rabid, or it doesn’t sucks for many because “a lot go Rabid.”

Which is it? You’re contradicting yourself here. :/

None of the choices you’ve given me to choose from 1) “it sucks for ‘many’ which implies they don’t take Rabid” or 2) "it doesn’t sucks for many because ‘a lot go Rabid’ " are what I meant.

Sorry if my choice of words were misinterpreted by you to be contradictory. My meaning is not and I’ll reword it more simply:

Many Necros are Rabid Condition Necros. It is a popular choice. And Retaliation is weak for these Necros.

I have not found any compelling reasons on the Necro forum (which I do check out a lot—check my post history) to require me to use “some” over “many.” “Many” does not necessarily imply “majority” (seems this is what you are incorrectly trying to get at. If you’re not, and you’re trying to say I should have used “some” because you could quantify it somehow as less than “many,” then check the grammar link below.) So it’s wrong to try and be pedantic over that.

On the difference between “some” and “many”:

http://www.gingersoftware.com/grammarbook/adjectives/some-vs-many/

Now if you had tried to say I should have used “few” instead of “many,” then your statement would have been coherent. But I would disagree with the statement that few Necros are Rabid Condition. It’s a popular choice.

Now if you inferred from my usage of “many” that I believe it is a popular choice, then you are right in that inference (though it would have made more sense to bring up that inference and object to it rather than tell me to use “some,” as you can still use “many” and not imply “popular”)—I do believe Rabid Condition Necros are popular. And if you object that it’s a popular choice (popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it) and you tell me that it’s not a popular build, then I’ll disagree with you. And simply telling me to check the Necro forum does nothing, as I already do.

Perhaps your bringing up “some” vs. “many” was not out of pedantry (which would not hold), but out of your inference that I suggested it is a popular choice and you disagree. Nothing we can do about that, as apparently we both check the Necro forums.

And if your stance is that Rabid Condition Necros are popular but I still should have used “some,” then I’ll redirect you to the grammar link again.

And I think this should cover all the bases, but if you’re wondering why I would bother bringing up Spiteful Spirit’s not being good general advice, it is because I believe Rabid Condition Necros are numerous enough to warrant speaking out on their behalf.

Also good luck should you try to convince Necros on the Necro forum that, in PvP, Necros “with their Death Shroud mechanic, they really don’t have to worry much about their survivability, thus they can focus more on improving their damage output.”

I am not stating one way or the other on that particular matter. But I am quoting you so I can say that I frequent the Necro forums enough to know that few Necros there would agree with you.

snaplemouton.1294:

How am I supposed to beat CND rogue with a necro?

I fought that CND rogue and what I managed to see from him was that he was wielding dagger offhand, dunno what his main hand was and a shortbow as off weapon.
Every time his health was going low he use his heal that stealth and/or teleport with his shortbow on higher edges or behind LoS so I had no clues where he disapeared most of the time.
When he was comming out of stealth, he basically attacked me once or twice then stealthed right away. My only root being a cast, I don’t even have time to root him and necro CC ain’t nothing to be feared. (See what I did there?)
Especially since thieves can steal us for a fear that last more then 2x longer then our traited fears… (Make sense)

So… how can I win against that? Aside from building full vitality/thoughness with maximum Life Force generation…

Edit: Also, is it still possible to perma stealth like rogue used to do 9 months ago? (CND everytime the stealth finish with a high initiative regen spec)

I assure you its impossible all else equal….

When was the last tournament you saw a necro in the final? Point and case.

Engels.8537:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I disagree. With Necro’s high Health pool, they can invest all their gears and items to improve their Power. Also with their Death Shroud mechanic, they really don’t have to worry much about their survivability, thus they can focus more on improving their damage output.

This phrase is hilarious,

a) Necromancer is by far the class with less survivability in this game,

How so? Care to elaborate?

If not, then have a nice day.

b) A CnD thief would deplete a complete DS pool in matter of seconds, then any decent thief will reset the fight and come back to finish the job against a helpless necromancer,

facepalm

Obviously you did not read the thread.

Haley.2390:

None of the choices you’ve given me to choose from 1) “it sucks for ‘many’ which implies they don’t take Rabid” or 2) "it doesn’t sucks for many because ‘a lot go Rabid’ " are what I meant.

Sorry if my choice of words were misinterpreted by you to be contradictory. My meaning is not and I’ll reword it more simply:

Many Necros are Rabid Condition Necros. It is a popular choice. And Retaliation is weak for these Necros.

Thank you for that. Yes I did understood it wrong, my apologies.

I have not found any compelling reasons on the Necro forum (which I do check out a lot—check my post history) to require me to use “some” over “many.” “Many” does not necessarily imply “majority” (seems this is what you are incorrectly trying to get at. If you’re not, and you’re trying to say I should have used “some” because you could quantify it somehow as less than “many,” then check the grammar link below.) So it’s wrong to try and be pedantic over that.

On the difference between “some” and “many”:

http://www.gingersoftware.com/grammarbook/adjectives/some-vs-many/

The simple fact is, we don’t know how many uses or do not use Rabid, therefore to assume that there are “some” is right, than to assume that there are “many” per your provided link.

Now if you had tried to say I should have used “few” instead of “many,” then your statement would have been coherent. But I would disagree with the statement that few Necros are Rabid Condition. It’s a popular choice.

Regardless, I am simply trying to understand what you’re talking about, because even if you believe that “Rabid Condition Necros are popular”, there are even numerous Minion Master build and combination of Power and Condition build, more so than Rabid Condition — a simple search will show you that fact.

Now if you inferred from my usage of “many” that I believe it is a popular choice, then you are right in that inference (though it would have made more sense to bring up that inference and object to it rather than tell me to use “some,” as you can still use “many” and not imply “popular”)—I do believe Rabid Condition Necros are popular. And if you object that it’s a popular choice (popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it) and you tell me that it’s not a popular build, then I’ll disagree with you. And simply telling me to check the Necro forum does nothing, as I already do.

No, no, “many” doesn’t imply “popular” rather it implies that you know the quantity of all Necro builds and can answer the question “How many?” in reference to Rabid.

Perhaps your bringing up “some” vs. “many” was not out of pedantry (which would not hold), but out of your inference that I suggested it is a popular choice and you disagree. Nothing we can do about that, as apparently we both check the Necro forums.

And if your stance is that Rabid Condition Necros are popular but I still should have used “some,” then I’ll redirect you to the grammar link again.

Rabid Condition Necros are neither popular nor many. As I mentioned above, the combination of Minion and Power/Condi builds make Rabid Condition “few” or “some”.

Even if there’s only one of each build, that fact still remain true.

And I think this should cover all the bases, but if you’re wondering why I would bother bringing up Spiteful Spirit’s not being good general advice, it is because I believe Rabid Condition Necros are numerous enough to warrant speaking out on their behalf.

That’s fine. I had no problem with that, but if the intention is to deal with CnD thief, then that group of Necro might want to reconsider.

Also good luck should you try to convince Necros on the Necro forum that, in PvP, Necros “with their Death Shroud mechanic, they really don’t have to worry much about their survivability, thus they can focus more on improving their damage output.”

I have seen it first hand how a Necro uses Death Shroud effectively as way of survivability. If someone main Necro have not figured that out yet, then there’s really no convincing them.

I am not stating one way or the other on that particular matter. But I am quoting you so I can say that I frequent the Necro forums enough to know that few Necros there would agree with you.

Well, let’s just say that there’s a really good reason why Death Shroud is called “second life bar”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Engels.8537:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I disagree. With Necro’s high Health pool, they can invest all their gears and items to improve their Power. Also with their Death Shroud mechanic, they really don’t have to worry much about their survivability, thus they can focus more on improving their damage output.

This phrase is hilarious,

a) Necromancer is by far the class with less survivability in this game,

How so? Care to elaborate?

If not, then have a nice day.

Yeah sure,

a) Necromancer has no access to vigor,

b) Necromancer has no sustainability mechanism,

c) Necromancers has no blocks, invulnerability, invisibility,

d) Necromancers has no reliable access to stability,

e) Necromancers has te worst mobility in game,

f) Necromancers has close to zero access to boons,

That’s the reason that any competent group will target a necro first, in GvG and Spvp fights,

Have a nice day,

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The simple fact is, we don’t know how many uses or do not use Rabid, therefore to assume that there are “some” is right, than to assume that there are “many” per your provided link.

My provided grammar link says it is fine to use “many” as long as there is a large indefinite number.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

No, no, “many” doesn’t imply “popular” rather it implies that you know the quantity of all Necro builds and can answer the question “How many?” in reference to Rabid.

Nope. It does not mean I know a definite quantity for all builds or this build. “Use many with countable nouns, when you want to refer to a large but indefinite number.” You seem to think “many” necessarily implies a relative comparison to other builds, it only necessarily implies a large indefinite number. To argue otherwise would be a poor attempt at being pedantic.

Now it seems you can disagree with two things for your response to be warranted.

1) There is a large indefinite number of Necros who choose Rabid.

2) Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

You could have been an extremely obtuse pedantic right off the bat and said, “where is the empirical data?” I would have said, no such data exists. But you didn’t, and told me to look at the Necro forum.

And again, you’ve mentioned a quick search of the Necro forum in this response where you could have simply said no empirical data exists.

This sets the tone that you don’t want to go that route of being an obtuse pedantic and are fine with using the Necro forum as reference, so I’ll continue this way.

How about I ask the Necro forum two questions and we can end speculations either way regarding to the Necro forum as evidence?

1) Is there a large number of Necros who choose Rabid in WvW? sPvP? tPvP?

2) Is Rabid a popular choice for Necros in WvW? sPvP? tPvP?

Here is the link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Popular-gear-stats-for-Necros-in-PvP

Already got this response right away:

Full rabid is the only and best option for necromancers in any form of PvP.
Any condition necro you see around is most likely running full Rabid.

As for your comments on Death Shroud, I’ll let other Necros talk to you about that (seems at least one is, so far). Feel free to bring it up in the Necro forum (though it’s been talked about to death there already.) I have not said one way or another on that matter, so no use in trying to convince me specifically on that. I only brought it up to demonstrate that I do visit the Necro forum. I read beyond just subject titles of unorthodox builds whose major impetus of being mentioned is that they are unusual and breaking from the mold.

Haley.2390:

My provided grammar link says it is fine to use “many” as long as there is a large indefinite number.

I am not disagreeing that the number is indefinite, rather how do YOU know that is it ‘large’ and not ‘small’?

You are implying that you know that it is a ’’large" number yet posted no evidence to support that claim.

I am simply disqualifying your premise since to claim that there is a “large” number, indefinite or not, you have to support that claim.

If you have nothing to support it, then the humble way of making that statement is for you to assume “some” , “few”, or “small”.

Now it seems you can disagree with two things for your response to be warranted.

1) There is a large indefinite number of Necros who choose Rabid.

How do you know? The burden of proof is on you.

2) Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Again how do you know that?

You could have been an extremely obtuse pedantic right off the bat and said, “where is the empirical data?” I would have said, no such data exists. But you didn’t, and told me to look at the Necro forum.

Because such data don’t exists and it would be wrong to demand it from you.

Since no such data exists, you are not in a position to make such a bold claim.

Unless you can support it otherwise, but after all your post, I think you’re better off being humble and assume that there are “some”.

How about I ask the Necro forum two questions and we can end speculations either way regarding to the Necro forum as evidence?

1) Is there a large number of Necros who choose Rabid in WvW? sPvP? tPvP?

2) Is Rabid a popular choice for Necros in WvW? sPvP? tPvP?

Here is the link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Popular-gear-stats-for-Necros-in-PvP

Already got this response right away:

Full rabid is the only and best option for necromancers in any form of PvP.
Any condition necro you see around is most likely running full Rabid.

Funny how you only select a response that supports your claim even though one of the respond mention the build I am suggesting from the beginning of this thread.

None runs Spiteful Spirit, pretty much because it is worthy only in DS heavy build and because Reaper’s Might is always a better choice.

But the question is, which build can deal with CnD?

Then you ask some “leading” question by using “CnD combo”, which is a completely different matter because that is not what this thread is all about, so you’ll get the answer you want.

Instead, the respond to that question was;

None runs Spiteful Spirit, pretty much because it is worthy only in DS heavy build and because Reaper’s Might is always a better choice.

Funny how that didn’t turn out as you wanted to.

Then you show your persistence to be right and asked a follow up questions,

So Condition Necros are popular, right? And you said pretty much most Condition Necros are running full Rabid?

DS heavy builds are usually not Condition builds then, right?

How would a Condition Necro reliably generate Life Force against a Thief?

Then the answer was still not in your favor.

Condition necros are popular, of course. There are obviously many nuances of builds and I don’t exclude that someone would run with Spiteful Spirit instead of Reaper’s Might

You see, the Necro build is diverse enough that you cannot possibly know that there is a ‘large’ number of Rabid. The thread you made further reinforce my stand that just because something is popular, doesn’t necessarily mean that it is ‘large’ in quantity because the person replying to you have also posted different builds other than Rabid.

As for your comments on Death Shroud, I’ll let other Necros talk to you about that (seems at least one is, so far). Feel free to bring it up in the Necro forum (though it’s been talked about to death there already.) I have not said one way or another on that matter, so no use in trying to convince me specifically on that. I only brought it up to demonstrate that I do visit the Necro forum. I read beyond just subject titles of unorthodox builds whose major impetus of being mentioned is that they are unusual and breaking from the mold.

It is evident that you have not run with other builds that is different from your own. That is why you have no idea on how a DS build really work.

I think we can leave it at that.

Engels.8537:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Engels.8537:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I disagree. With Necro’s high Health pool, they can invest all their gears and items to improve their Power. Also with their Death Shroud mechanic, they really don’t have to worry much about their survivability, thus they can focus more on improving their damage output.

This phrase is hilarious,

a) Necromancer is by far the class with less survivability in this game,

How so? Care to elaborate?

If not, then have a nice day.

Yeah sure,

a) Necromancer has no access to vigor,

b) Necromancer has no sustainability mechanism,

c) Necromancers has no blocks, invulnerability, invisibility,

d) Necromancers has no reliable access to stability,

e) Necromancers has te worst mobility in game,

f) Necromancers has close to zero access to boons,

That’s the reason that any competent group will target a necro first, in GvG and Spvp fights,

Have a nice day,

That’s enumerating, not elaborating.

Well good day to you too.

What exactly are you trying to get at? You’re repeating things I’ve already gone over.

I already said there are no empirical data for me to know it’s a large indefinite number or that it’s a popular build.

My opposition is that if you wanted to say that first, you should have said it and I’d agree (already said this in my previous post here.)

You should not have told me to simply check the Necro forum. As that route has no way of offering empirical data either way. So why did you tell me to check the Necro forum? What would that accomplish? I went into this in my previous post: If you’re going that route, then I am assuming you are not going to be obtusely pedantic, so it is okay for me to post on the Necro forum to ask (because what other types of evidence are you looking for by telling me to check the Necro forum if not empirical?)

It’s obvious from the Necro forum that there are people who agree that Rabid is popular among Necros.

I did not cherry pick, check the time stamp (quickly within 24 hours—I know you’re there as I posted this right after you posted the response to the other user above—or else hourly gradients will be overridden by gradients of days for the time stamp.) That was one of the very first responses and I edited it in.

If I were to cherry pick, I’d go back and pick more and more. Also, going through this non-empirical way, do you see anyone claiming that Rabid is not popular? I only currently see mention about Carrion being used among high tier tPvP Necros, my thread explicitly asked if Rabid is popular for Necros in PvP. I see people who say it is, people who do not say either way, and a person who says Carrion is what high tier tPvP Necros use (with no mention of PvP Necro population as a whole.)

Why are you being antagonistic and saying I do not run with builds that are not my own? I never said I ran Rabid.

I actually don’t. I often run builds that I come up with on my own and I currently still do. I just frequent the Necro forum enough to gauge that Rabid is a popular choice.

Try not resort to ad hominem arguments. If you had even read that thread in its entirety, you’d see my post saying I use Carrion pieces to take advantage of what I perceive to be benefits of the new Death Shroud. And if you go through my post history, you’ll see some mentions of unorthodox playstyles I use (e.g. Rampager glass WvW roaming, Apothecary/Cleric MM to keep Jagged Horrors up, etc.) My current build uses Scepter+Focus in a DS heavy Condition build with Giver’s weapons. These are unpopular choices, but they fit my playstyle. I do not bother arguing for them here, but don’t take my belief that Rabid is popular to mean I use cookiecutter builds in an attempt to attack my personality. It’s disingenuous.

You need to calm down, read the posts there and read my posts here. Understand my previous post here on my intentions of posting that thread. Clear your head of preconceived stances you believe I have and let the words speak for themselves. See how many Necros there do accept that Rabid is popular without a second question. See why I object to your telling me to check the Necro forum. But I’ve already gone over why I posted that thread in this regard.

Your mention of burden of proof shows you completely misunderstood my previous post and my meaning. How am I to argue with you further if you’re attacking things I’m not even saying (not to mention your attack of characteristics that I do not have—the characteristics of running only builds people talk about and of cherry picking)?

My inference is that you’ve gotten too angry to be able to read what I’m saying and take my intended meaning from it rather than a meaning you’ve decided prematurely that I have. Earlier, you gave me two set of choices you said were contradicting and suggested I meant one or both of them, but it turned out I meant neither. So it shouldn’t be too hard for you to believe you’ve misunderstood me again and are attacking sentiments that I do not hold.

If you want further clarifications, my point of view of what’s happened step-by-step, etc., feel free to ask. Our conversations have gotten messy and it’s understandable if you want me to clean things up. Also, hope you understand that I chose to not respond to all your previous remarks, as many of them are you attacking things I’m not saying.

The problem here is, you made a misleading statement and have not retracted it, nor rephrase it, nor corrected it. Since you admit that you have no way of knowing how large or small the number of players running Rabid Condition since there’s no such data, then why haven’t you corrected yourself. Why are you still insisting on such a ‘large indefinite number’ exist without data to support it?

I refer you to the Necro forum because there is this thread specific for builds and by simply looking into that thread, you will know how diverse the builds are. The viability of the build is irrelevant since I am simply discrediting your statement that Rabid Condition has a ‘large indefinite number.’

Second, the number of people who agreed with you in that thread your created is not significant to support your claim. In fact, there are many who disagree with that person which further prove that your statement that Rabid is popular is misleading.

Third, you were cherry picking, everyone who read the thread will agree. In fact, the thread is still active and people are posting more and more diverse build that diminishes the value of your statement further. As it turned out, Carrion seems to be more popular than Rabid.

Forth, I never said that you run Rabid, what I said is that you don’t run build that is different from your own. That, with your own admission, shows that you really have no idea how a DS, built around Retaliation and Condition, really works.

Fifth, you claim that Rapid Condition build is “popular” therefore there are “many” which means it’s a “large indefinite number.” If you are to make such a ridiculous claim, then yes, the burden of proof in on you. Since you admit that you don’t know this for a fact, then don’t make a statements as if you have evidence to support it.

Sixth, who’s angry? I admit to misunderstanding you because your post was sloppy and hard to understand. You separate a single thought into two sentences without conjunctions. Instead okittennowledging your sloppiness, you are using that misunderstanding against me. Why not simply rephrase your statement so that it is easy to understand instead of going through all these nonsense? The fact that I am still replying to you shows that I am being patient so don’t jump to conclusion that I am angry.

Lastly, I read your post history as you suggested and it seems that someone else is calling out the validity of your reply when you suggested Rampager Hybrid in WvW roamer that can take out 2-3 players solo. So either that person also misunderstood you or you’re simply full of kitten. Even in your created thread disagree with that suggestion since someone have listed a list of diverse build and Rampager Hybrid is but an off-side build for other Hybrids.

Looking at all your posts, it shows that you’re just trying to talk your way out of the tight spot you gotten yourself into.

Looking at all your posts, it shows that you’re just trying to talk your way out of the tight spot you gotten yourself into.

I disagree. You are still misunderstanding me.

It’s hard for me to believe that you are not angry given your accusations, saying I’m “full of kitten,” attacking things out of context, and most importantly, not understanding my posts.

If the misunderstanding is due to your view that my writing is sloppy (perhaps it is given how big my posts are), then I will summarize hopefully more clearly below.

We will ignore fluffs, things taken out of context, and we will refrain from unwarranted character attacks. We can get back to them once you’ve understood me.

I’ll put my succinct point-of-view in a Spoiler tag as to not further bloat this post.

snaplemouton.1294:

Also, I don’t know how he did, but I got him down once without knowing it (He got downed in stealth) and next thing I know he appear about 15 seconds later with 95% of his downed health bar, healing himself up 10 feets from me and he never showed on my screen between the last time he went in stealth and when he came back with 95% of his downed.

That happens to my thief on occasion if I get downed just after I put up shadow refuge. If I don’t take any more damage and can start my downed heal channel I’m close to getting up again when SR ends.

Haley.2390:

I disagree. You are still misunderstanding me.

It’s hard for me to believe that you are not angry given your accusations, saying I’m “full of kitten,” attacking things out of context, and most importantly, not understanding my posts.

lol. talk about “attacking things out of context” when you did just that. lol.

It’s hard to get angry on how ridiculous your posts are. Seriously, this is pure entertainment.

If the misunderstanding is due to your view that my writing is sloppy (perhaps it is given how big my posts are), then I will summarize hopefully more clearly below.

No need, we’re done with that. I know what you’re trying to say and I’m telling you you’re wrong.

I’ll put my succinct point-of-view in a Spoiler tag as to not further bloat this post.

sigh, fine. Let’s see what you can come up with this time.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t be ridiculous. In that same thread, you’ll find others suggesting Carrion over Rabid, or other build other than Rabid.

How does their suggesting Carrion over Rabid imply Rabid is not popular? I prefer Carrion over Rabid, too, but I recognize that the general atmosphere of the Necro forum (which you referred me to) is that Rabid is popular.

I had hope you would calm down, but you are simply too angry to take a step back and see things clearly.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Popular-gear-stats-for-Necros-in-PvP

Bhawb is a frequent poster on the Necro forum, he was one of those who support Carrion over Rabid in that thread. He recognizes that Rabid is popular in this thread.

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t be ridiculous. In that same thread, you’ll find others suggesting Carrion over Rabid, or other build other than Rabid.

How does their suggesting Carrion over Rabid imply Rabid is not popular? I prefer Carrion over Rabid, too, but I recognize that the general atmosphere of the Necro forum (which you referred me to) is that Rabid is popular.

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

I had hope you would calm down, but you are simply too angry to take a step back.

Wow! You’re psychic, not only you can tell that there is a “large” number of Necro who runs Rabid Condition, but you can also tell that I’m angry.

Amazing.

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”? Why are you using this out of the blue to justify yourself?

When I say “A large indefinite number of people from my town go to my favorite restaurant” do you take that to mean that the number I’m referencing to is large compared to everyone else in my town who does not go to the restaurant?

Say my town has a population of 800,000. I go to my favorite restaurant that can house 40 people max. And everyday I go, almost every seat is filled. Hardly anyone would say I cannot say “many (a large indefinite number of) people from my town go to that restaurant.” If you disagree here, you are either being obtuse, stubborn, or simply have no case.

And in that same scenario, hardly anyone would find it wrong for me to say that restaurant is popular.

It doesn’t take a psychic to see you’re not handling this well.

Again, from one of the Carrion supporters, Bhawb. Who I recognize as very active in both the Necro forum and the Necro community (e.g. But of Corpse all Necro guild and his podcast interview with competitive tPvP Necro Gibbly):

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Haley.2390:

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”? Why are you using this out of the blue to justify yourself?

Out of the blue? That’s the reason why I refer you to the Necro forum in the first place. Jeeze!

When I say “A large indefinite number of people from my town go to my favorite restaurant” do you take that to mean that the number I’m referencing to is large compared to everyone else in my town who does not go to the restaurant?

I already made this clear in my post.

Say my town has a population of 800,000. I go to my favorite restaurant that can house 40 people max. And everyday I go, almost every seat is filled. Hardly anyone would say I cannot say “a large number of people from my town go to that restaurant.” If you disagree here, you are either being obtuse, stubborn, or simply have no case.

No one is saying that you cannot say it. You are free to make false statements however you like.

That statement is false because it’s not necessarily true.

Not sure why you’re defending a false statement?

And in that same scenario, hardly anyone would find it wrong for me to say that restaurant is popular.

Here we go again, with the popular.

Just because it is popular, doesn’t necessarily mean that people in your town goes there.

Just because it is popular, doesn’t necessarily mean that a “large” number of Necro runs Rabid Condition.

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

It doesn’t take a psychic to see you’re not handling this well.

Really? So why haven’t you address all the points I made? Running away?

Again, from one of the Carrion supporters, Bhawb. Who I recognize as very active in the Necro forum:

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

What does this prove?

Just because it’s valid doesn’t necessarily mean to be true.

Your statement is valid, unfortunately it is false.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Your statement is valid, unfortunately it is false.

My statement is valid. There is no way to justify it as technically true or false with 100% certainty. I’ve already gone over that many, many, many times.

You’re simply too blinded by rage to bother reading carefully.

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Thank you.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Your statement is valid, unfortunately it is false.

My statement is valid. There is no way to justify it as technically true or false with 100% certainty. I’ve already gone over that many, many, many times.

You’re simply too blinded by rage to bother reading carefully.

It simply boils down to this; your statement is not necessarily true, therefore it is false.

And I look it up, it called “Appeal to the People” fallacy.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Your statement is valid, unfortunately it is false.

My statement is valid. There is no way to justify it as technically true or false with 100% certainty. I’ve already gone over that many, many, many times.

You’re simply too blinded by rage to bother reading carefully.

It simply boils down to this; your statement is not necessarily true, therefore it is false.

And I look it up, it called “Appeal to the People” fallacy.

I’ve already gone over that so many times. I’ve already said such statements cannot be shown to be necessarily true or false so many times. I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

Appeal to the People Fallacy does not hold here as I’ve already said that statement cannot be shown to be true or false. I explicitly mentioned my belief.

Wonder why I keep asking what you are trying to get at?

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Actually no.

Haley uses “popular” to justify “many”.

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

So by your observation, Haley is abusing the word “many” when Haley suppose to be using “most”, but either way, the statement is false.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Actually no.

Haley uses “popular” to justify “many”.

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

So by your observation, Haley is abusing the word “many” when Haley suppose to be using “most”, but either way, the statement is false.

What authority says “popular” necessarily means “most” or “majority”? And why would you think I meant “majority” when I clearly and explicitly said I never meant “most” or “majority” many times?

You have a forgetful/selective memory, didn’t bother understanding my posts where I repeated these sentiments many times, and/or are grasping at straws.

In addition, my restaurant example strongly reflects that I never meant “most” or “majority.” My restaurant example was also used for both “many” and “popular.” Do you really think that when someone says a restaurant is popular in a city they mean most people in the city go there?

Here are 3 definitions for “popular” by Oxford dictionaries:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/popular?q=popular

Definition #1: “liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group”

And here are 4 by Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I would hope you hold Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries in high esteem.

You cannot show me how these authoritative dictionaries necessitate that “popular” means “most” or “majority.”

Remember, dictionaries list multiple meanings for words. Coupled that with my explicitly saying I do not mean “most” or “majority” and my restaurant analogy, and any competent person would not try and say I meant “most” or “majority.”

I would say “McDonald’s is a popular place for people to eat” and hardly anyone would get their panties twisted over that statement. Does that statement necessarily show that I meant most people go there to eat or that most people who go out to eat go there? No.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Actually no.

Haley uses “popular” to justify “many”.

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

So by your observation, Haley is abusing the word “many” when Haley suppose to be using “most”, but either way, the statement is false.

What authority says “popular” necessarily means “most”? And why would you think I meant “most” when I clearly and explicitly said I never meant “most” or “majority” many times?

You either have a forgetful memory or you didn’t bother understanding my posts where I repeated these sentiments many times.

In addition, my restaurant example strongly reflects that I never meant “most” or “majority.”

Don’t cherry pick definitions and recognize this link lists 5 definitions:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/popular

And don’t cherry pick definitions here either, there are 7:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/popular

Here are 4 more definitions from Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Remember, dictionaries list multiple meanings for words. Coupled that with my explicitly saying I do not mean “most” or “majority” and my restaurant analogy, and any competent person would not try and say I meant “most” or “majority.”

Where did you even got this notion from?

My statement is clear;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

And by posting all these definition further shows that “popular = many” is not necessarily true.

I would say “McDonald’s is a popular place for people to eat” and hardly anyone would get their panties twisted over that statement. Does that statement necessarily show that I meant most people go there to eat?

Another false statement.

The “popular” in that context is describing the “place” not the number of people. It means that a lot of people may know of the place, but not necessarily mean they eat there.

But if you say;
“McDonald’s is a popular place where people eat lunch”

Then yes it implies that “most” people who eat lunch go to McDonald’s. It does not imply “many” whatsoever.

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in that part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

“Popular” does not imply “most.” I can say “Rabid is popular for PvP Necros.” And I can say “Many PvP Necros go Rabid.” Neither statements imply “most” or “majority,” as already shown by my dictionary links by Oxford and Merriam-Webster.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

I have acknowledge that you don’t mean “most” or “majority”, but your usage on “popular” doesn’t necessarily mean “many”

That is why I said;

I am not disagreeing that the number is indefinite, rather how do YOU know that is it ‘large’ and not ‘small’?

You are implying that you know that it is a ’’large" number yet posted no evidence to support that claim.

I am simply disqualifying your premise since to claim that there is a “large” number, indefinite or not, you have to support that claim.

If you have nothing to support it, then the humble way of making that statement is for you to assume “some” , “few”, or “small”.

I never said that you’re meaning to say “popular = most”, rather I am saying that your statement;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

..is misleading because I know that you said “many” but your statement means “most”.

Why is it misleading? I explicitly said I do not mean majority or most many times starting early on.

Don’t argue for the sake of arguing. And don’t misrepresent my stance.

I know you either haven’t read the definitions I’ve quoted above or you don’t understand them.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

..is misleading because I know that you said “many” but your statement means “most”.

And how do you justify my use of “popular” means “most” when I’ve said many times and early on it doesn’t?

Are you trying to say “popular” either means “many” or “most” and nothing else? I know you haven’t read or haven’t understood the Oxford or Merriam-Webster dictionaries snippets I put forth yet.

Here, I’ll link the dictionary snippets again:

Here are 3 definitions for “popular” by Oxford dictionaries:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/popular?q=popular

Definition #1: “liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group”

And here are 4 by Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I would hope you hold Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries in high esteem. Also I hope you understand that dictionaries list multiple definitions for words. And these dictionaries separate each definition by numbers. This is what my “Definition #” refers to.

Haley.2390:

Why is it misleading? I explicitly said I do not mean majority or most many times starting early on?

Don’t argue for the sake of arguing. And don’t misrepresent my stance?

Misrepresent? Well, let’s quote it then.

Haley.2390:

I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

…

I explicitly mentioned my belief.

Yet you have not changed that belief even after seeing the content of the Necro Forum.

This is the main problem here.

I know you haven’t read the definitions I listed yet.

So you’re trying to be psychic now? Or is this another faulty assumptions of yours?

And why do you feel you “know” it means “most” when I’ve said many times it doesn’t?

What you said is that it means many, when it is not.

Are you trying to say “popular” either means “many” or “most” and nothing else? I know you haven’t read the Oxford or Merriam-Webster dictionaries snippets I put forth yet.

There you go again, assuming that you know.

As I’ve already posted;

Just because it is popular, doesn’t necessarily mean that a “large” number of Necro runs Rabid Condition.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Actually no.

Haley uses “popular” to justify “many”.

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

So by your observation, Haley is abusing the word “many” when Haley suppose to be using “most”, but either way, the statement is false.

Let’s focus on this bold text here.

You said “popular” means “majority” and I showed you with Oxford/Merriam-Webster that this isn’t necessarily the case. I even chose the definitions for you that I meant by “popular.” I’ve also explicitly said I did not mean “most” or “majority” many times.

Justify that.

It is important since it is your premise on further arguing with me.

You can either try to justify that “popular” necessarily means “majority” (you can’t.) Or you can try to find where I explicitly said I meant “most” or “majority” (you can’t as I’ve said on the contrary many times and have listed examples that illustrated this. I even explicitly said multiple times that I hold no opinion on the matter of what the majority of PvP Necros use.)

Tiptoeing about by claiming supposedly “misleading” statements won’t get you out of having to quote where I explicitly meant “majority” or “most.” You keep quoting my use of “many” and “popular” instead. I can quote many times where I said I am not arguing that “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

From 4 days ago:

Haley.2390:

I do believe Rabid Condition Necros are popular. And if you object that it’s a popular choice (popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it) and you tell me that it’s not a popular build, then I’ll disagree with you. And simply telling me to check the Necro forum does nothing, as I already do.

It’s funny that you accused me of being in a tight spot.

Until you concisely and clearly justify yourself here, then you remain in a tight spot. For your next response, focus on addressing this post only (your saying that “popular” means “majority” and your addressing me with that assumption even though I said 4 days ago my use of “popular” does not necessarily imply “most” or “majority.”) Then once you are able to do it in a reasonable and sound manner, then we’ll move on to other discussions.

Vincent saying that necromancer defense is ok is stupid, and only shows that you are another thief fanboy telling others l2p and having none to zero knowledge of this game,

I will to assume you understand that vitality =/= defense in this game,

Necromancer defense is inversely proportional to the number of people involved in the fight, because necro don’t have any way to mitigate damage except DS which is not enough,

In 1v1 necro has no way to sustain himself, and the necromancer’s mobility is the worst in game therefore the “attrition class” ironicly ends dying by attrition,

Against the king of “restarting fights” (even when D/D thief is not that kittenty as D/P by any means) the necro has little to no chance, it may take more or less time but in the end the thief will kill the necromancer, (at best case the thief will run awayand the necro won’t be able to catch him),

And I’m not talking BS as you, my main is necro and I have a thief to roam in WvW therefore unless you have a lot of hours invested in a necro which obviously is not the case please do me a favor and shut the kitten up and maybe you will learn something,

Have a nice day,

Engels.8537:

Vincent saying that necromancer defense is ok is stupid, and only shows that you are another thief fanboy telling others l2p and having none to zero knowledge of this game,

I will to assume you understand that vitality =/= defense in this game,

Necromancer defense is inversely proportional to the number of people involved in the fight, because necro don’t have any way to mitigate damage except DS which is not enough,

In 1v1 necro has no way to sustain himself, and the necromancer’s mobility is the worst in game therefore the “attrition class” ironicly ends dying by attrition,

Against the king of “restarting fights” (even when D/D thief is not that kittenty as D/P by any means) the necro has little to no chance, it may take more or less time but in the end the thief will kill the necromancer, (at best case the thief will run awayand the necro won’t be able to catch him),

And I’m not talking BS as you, my main is necro and I have a thief to roam in WvW therefore unless you have a lot of hours invested in a necro which obviously is not the case please do me a favor and shut the kitten up and maybe you will learn something,

Have a nice day,

just wondering:
would you still play necro if:

we delete the staff marks , and give necros access to stealth ?

so we would delete the ground denial a necro could do for some stealth.

I kinda think you wouldn’t want to loos that staff for anything.
The ground denial is direct counter to close combat characters, and marks are even spammable on ranged characters.

Would you drop the staff for anything ? like 500 more toughness ? or a 4 sec invulnerable on 40sec cooldown ? anything ?

Engels.8537:

Vincent saying that necromancer defense is ok is stupid, and only shows that you are another thief fanboy telling others l2p and having none to zero knowledge of this game,

Your assumption shows that you are the one who is stupid.

You are responding to this;

With Necro’s high Health pool, they can invest all their gears and items to improve their Power. Also with their Death Shroud mechanic, they really don’t have to worry much about their survivability, thus they can focus more on improving their damage output.

If you think what I said is not true, then by all means invest more in defense and survivability…see how your damage output suffers.

I will to assume you understand that vitality =/= defense in this game,

Well you assumed wrong. There’s already a discussion about this in the Necro forum that you can convert vitality to defense using the Death Shroud mechanic. Of course the vitality vs toughness topic is always a debate because in certain situations, one or the other shines. But that doesn’t negate the fact that coupled with DS vitality is a defense mechanism.

Necromancer defense is inversely proportional to the number of people involved in the fight, because necro don’t have any way to mitigate damage except DS which is not enough,

You are arguing against this then make it an exception? DS is one of the way to mitigate one source of the damage because that’s all what Necro have to deal with it. According to someone in the Necro forum, there are 2 sources of damage: Direct and condition damage. Compare to Thieves, Necro can has no problem with condition damage and they have DS to deal with direct damage.

In 1v1 necro has no way to sustain himself, and the necromancer’s mobility is the worst in game therefore the “attrition class” ironicly ends dying by attrition,

Necro has no way to sustain himself? That’s a load of kitten. Necro has access to heal, condition removal/transfer, health regen, life steal, etc.

Necro doesn’t need mobility because it has access to a lot of fear and movement impairment skills.

Against the king of “restarting fights” (even when D/D thief is not that kittenty as D/P by any means) the necro has little to no chance, it may take more or less time but in the end the thief will kill the necromancer, (at best case the thief will run awayand the necro won’t be able to catch him),

What’s your point? Every profession has to to deal with it, including us Thieves.

And I’m not talking BS as you, my main is necro and I have a thief to roam in WvW therefore unless you have a lot of hours invested in a necro which obviously is not the case

After all that hours, you are here to tell me that;
- necromancer defense is ok is stupid
- vitality =/= defense in this game
- necro don’t have any way to mitigate damage
- In 1v1 necro has no way to sustain himself

For someone who spent that much time should have figured out and solved those problems. Compare to other Necro in the Necro forum, you are one of those who just want to complain instead of finding a way to overcome your problems.

If you have not overcome those problems, then there is a learn-2-play issue here.

please do me a favor and shut the kitten up and maybe you will learn something,

Do you a favor? Who do you think you are?

Have a nice day,

My days are always nice.

Haley.2390:

Let’s focus on this bold text here.

You said “popular” means “majority” and I showed you with Oxford/Merriam-Webster that this isn’t necessarily the case. I even chose the definitions for you that I meant by “popular.” I’ve also explicitly said I did not mean “most” or “majority” many times.

Justify that.

It is important since it is your premise on further arguing with me.

You are mixing meanings to wiggle yourself out of this tight situation.

I have asked you this question;

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

You are insisting that “popular = many” and I told you that is not necessarily true and this was my response;

Just because it is popular, doesn’t necessarily mean that a “large” number of Necro runs Rabid Condition.

The diversity of Necro builds is the proof of that.

In here, in the Thieves forum, S/D is a popular build, but that doesn’t mean that there’s a large number of Thieves who runs it. Since I don’t know that for a fact, I cannot boldly say that there are many Thieves who runs S/D. That would just be a stupid statement. In this form, “popular” is not being used to quantify, it simply means that it is well known.

The problem with your argument is that you are jumping to a conclusion that there are many just because it is popular. There is no connection there, unless you can show data to support it that a build being popular is indeed many.

Since you admit, and I agree, that such data doesn’t exist, then you cannot safely assume that there are many and the humble approach is to use “some.”

You can either try to justify that “popular” necessarily means “majority” (you can’t.)

You’re just going around in circles here. We already established the following;
- I’ve shown that popular in not necessarily means many
- You claim that popular in not necessarily means most or majority

So I asked you, if it means neither, then what else does it mean within the context of your statement “Many Necro…?”

Or you can try to find where I explicitly said I meant “most” or “majority” (you can’t as I’ve said on the contrary many times and have listed examples that illustrated this. I even explicitly said multiple times that I hold no opinion on the matter of what the majority of PvP Necros use.)

Explicitly? We’re talking about implication here.

Tiptoeing about by claiming supposedly “misleading” statements won’t get you out of having to quote where I explicitly meant “majority” or “most.” You keep quoting my use of “many” and “popular” instead. I can quote many times where I said I am not arguing that “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

Your premise that “popular = many” is wrong because we both don’t know that for a fact. Since there is no data to support that, it is misleading.

From 4 days ago:

I do believe Rabid Condition Necros are popular. And if you object that it’s a popular choice (popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it) and you tell me that it’s not a popular build, then I’ll disagree with you. And simply telling me to check the Necro forum does nothing, as I already do.

It’s funny that you accused me of being in a tight spot.

Until you concisely and clearly justify yourself here, then you remain in a tight spot.

Cherry picking again? In that same post you made this statement;

Now if you inferred from my usage of “many” that I believe it is a popular choice, then you are right in that inference (though it would have made more sense to bring up that inference and object to it rather than tell me to use “some,” as you can still use “many” and not imply “popular”)

But in this quote, the implication is unmistakable;

1) There is a large indefinite number of Necros who choose Rabid.
2) Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

For your next response, focus on addressing this post only (your saying that “popular” means “majority” and your addressing me with that assumption even though I said 4 days ago my use of “popular” does not necessarily imply “most” or “majority.”)

My conclusion of “popular means majority” is based on your posts, not my own claim, but based on your own. I’ve shown many times that your usage of “popular” cannot possibly mean “many” and the only other meaning is “most” or “majority.” This is why I told Craig that your are abusing the word “many” when your posts implies “most.”

Then once you are able to do it in a reasonable and sound manner, then we’ll move on to other discussions.

What are you implying now?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

You truly do not bother understanding my posts and gloss over words. You just assume a position I do not hold and argue against it. You have demonstrated with your last response that I have given you too much credit in your willingness (or ability) to understand my words.

Unproductive.

Yes, you can use “many” and not imply “popular.”

You can use “popular” and not imply “majority.”

You can use “many” and “popular” and not imply “majority.” Especially obvious after the person says their use of “popular” has no necessarily implication of “most” or “majority.”

I’ve already linked you Oxford/Merriam-Webster on this.

Restaurant example again: My city has a population of 800,000. My favorite restaurant restaurant can house up to 40 people. Everyday I go, it is almost packed. Hardly anyone would object to my saying, “My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

Your unwillingness to actually understand my words makes this an unproductive conversation.

You said I haven’t answered that until now. I just quoted my answer to that using exclamations of “thank god!” to catch your attention.

There are many other arguments we’ve had, and I’ve addressed them all. We can single them out after you show a willingness (or ability) to understand my words.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

You truly do not bother understanding my posts and gloss over words. You just assume a position I do not hold and argue against it.

Unproductive.

Your posts are understandably misleading.

You’re the one pulling definitions off of dictionaries, not me, even though a simple answer to my question will reveal the truth.

You want productive discussion? Then answer this question.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- I’ve shown that popular in not necessarily means many
- You claim that popular in not necessarily means most or majority

So I asked you, if it means neither, then what else does it mean within the context of your statement “Many Necro…?”

What then are you implying here?

Haley.2390:

“My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

That statement is very different from this statement.

Haley.2390:

“There are many people in my town who go to my favorite restaurant.”

If you can’t see the difference, then it is apparent that I am not the one who has a problem understanding here

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

You truly do not bother understanding my posts and gloss over words. You just assume a position I do not hold and argue against it.

Unproductive.

Your posts are understandably misleading.

You’re the one pulling definitions off of dictionaries, not me, even though a simple answer to my question will reveal the truth.

You want productive discussion? Then answer this question.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- I’ve shown that popular in not necessarily means many
- You claim that popular in not necessarily means most or majority

So I asked you, if it means neither, then what else does it mean within the context of your statement “Many Necro…?”

What then are you implying here?

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?

I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:

From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)

Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”

From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

“My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

That statement is very different from this statement.

Haley.2390:

“There are many people in my town who go to my favorite restaurant.”

If you can’t see the difference, then it is apparent that I am not the one who has a problem understanding here

Oh my god. Look back at my old example. I used both separately in my restaurant example. I should have known you didn’t bother reading my restaurant example. I used it to justify both “many” and “popular.” You truly are not reading my posts.

Haley.2390:

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”? Why are you using this out of the blue to justify yourself?

When I say “A large indefinite number of people from my town go to my favorite restaurant” do you take that to mean that the number I’m referencing to is large compared to everyone else in my town who does not go to the restaurant?

Say my town has a population of 800,000. I go to my favorite restaurant that can house 40 people max. And everyday I go, almost every seat is filled. Hardly anyone would say I cannot say “many (a large indefinite number of) people from my town go to that restaurant.” If you disagree here, you are either being obtuse, stubborn, or simply have no case.

And in that same scenario, hardly anyone would find it wrong for me to say that restaurant is popular.

It doesn’t take a psychic to see you’re not handling this well.

Again, from one of the Carrion supporters, Bhawb. Who I recognize as very active in both the Necro forum and the Necro community (e.g. But of Corpse all Necro guild and his podcast interview with competitive tPvP Necro Gibbly):

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

I am quoting this again. I cannot believe you think I have not been clear on my not meaning “majority” or “most.”

If you continue to believe I am not clear that I do not mean “majority” or “most” after

1) I said 5 days ago:

popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it

2) I said 18 hours ago:

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.
I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?
I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”
I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”
And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”
You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

3) I said just now:

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?
I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:
From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)
Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”
From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)
Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”
I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

Then you are a hopeless cause. There is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to discussing with you as you obviously have problems understanding words.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

You truly do not bother understanding my posts and gloss over words. You just assume a position I do not hold and argue against it.

Unproductive.

Your posts are understandably misleading.

You’re the one pulling definitions off of dictionaries, not me, even though a simple answer to my question will reveal the truth.

You want productive discussion? Then answer this question.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- I’ve shown that popular in not necessarily means many
- You claim that popular in not necessarily means most or majority

So I asked you, if it means neither, then what else does it mean within the context of your statement “Many Necro…?”

What then are you implying here?

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?

I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:

From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)

Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”

From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

You can quote the dictionary meaning all you want, but you already posted what you meant, and it has nothing to do with it being “liked or admired by many people” nor “frequently encountered.” Instead, you justified it by saying;

I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

You didn’t say that it is popular because it is “liked or admired by many people” nor “frequently encountered” by many Necro. No. You didn’t.

So don’t try to use different meanings to change your statement because it doesn’t work.

So you are assuming I meant “majority” or “most” even though you can’t find an explicit quote where I did? And you are all basing this on feeling that I did?

Yet I have quotes explicitly saying I don’t mean “most” or “majority” many times starting 5 days ago? And I continue to repeat that and be redundant on it and have my examples reflect that over and over? And all you are doing is talking about what you feel yet you cannot find explicit quotes? Over and over. You will never find that explicit quote because I have said explicitly many times I have not ever meant “most” or “majority.”

If a Definition of the word ABC has 3 definitions. Definition 1, 2, and 3. And I say when I use the word “ABC” explicitly 5 days ago while introducing that word that I am not implying Definition 3, why are you trying to say I am? If I meant Definition 2 and hadn’t said it in the beginning explicitly, yet I said in the beginning I do not mean Definition 3, why do you feel it is ok to assume I meant Definition 3?

Haley.2390:

If you continue to believe I am not clear that I do not mean “majority” or “most” after

1) I said 5 days ago:

popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it

2) I said 18 hours ago:

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.
I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?
I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”
I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”
And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”
You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

3) I said just now:

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?
I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:
From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)
Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”
From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)
Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”
I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

Then you are a hopeless cause. There is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to discussing with you as you obviously have problems understanding words.

Haley.2390:

So you are assuming I meant “majority” or “most” even though you can’t find an explicit quote where I did? And you are all basing this on feeling that I did?

Yet I have quotes explicitly saying I don’t mean “most” or “majority” many times starting 5 days ago?

If a Definition of the word ABC has 3 definitions. Definition 1, 2, and 3. And I say when I use the word “ABC” explicitly 5 days ago while introducing that word that I am not implying Definition 3, why are you trying to say I am? If I meant Definition 2 and hadn’t said it in the beginning explicitly, yet I said in the beginning I do not mean Definition 3, why do you feel it is ok to assume I meant Definition 3?

Here’s the problem;
Using def#1 and #2 doesn’t make any sense, but using def#3 makes sense but you’re insisting that def#3 is not what you meant. What else is left?

Which brought us to this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2535436

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

So you are assuming I meant “majority” or “most” even though you can’t find an explicit quote where I did? And you are all basing this on feeling that I did?

Yet I have quotes explicitly saying I don’t mean “most” or “majority” many times starting 5 days ago?

If a Definition of the word ABC has 3 definitions. Definition 1, 2, and 3. And I say when I use the word “ABC” explicitly 5 days ago while introducing that word that I am not implying Definition 3, why are you trying to say I am? If I meant Definition 2 and hadn’t said it in the beginning explicitly, yet I said in the beginning I do not mean Definition 3, why do you feel it is ok to assume I meant Definition 3?

Here’s the problem;
Using def#1 and #2 doesn’t make any sense, but using def#3 makes sense but you’re insisting that def#3 is not what you meant. What else is left?

Which brought us to this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2535436

Let’s be clear here. You think my definitions from Oxford/Merriam Webster do not make sense in this case?

Oxford:
“liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Merriam-Webster:
“frequently encountered or widely accepted”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

So you are assuming I meant “majority” or “most” even though you can’t find an explicit quote where I did? And you are all basing this on feeling that I did?

Yet I have quotes explicitly saying I don’t mean “most” or “majority” many times starting 5 days ago?

If a Definition of the word ABC has 3 definitions. Definition 1, 2, and 3. And I say when I use the word “ABC” explicitly 5 days ago while introducing that word that I am not implying Definition 3, why are you trying to say I am? If I meant Definition 2 and hadn’t said it in the beginning explicitly, yet I said in the beginning I do not mean Definition 3, why do you feel it is ok to assume I meant Definition 3?

Here’s the problem;
Using def#1 and #2 doesn’t make any sense, but using def#3 makes sense but you’re insisting that def#3 is not what you meant. What else is left?

Which brought us to this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2535436

Let’s be clear here. You think my definitions from Oxford/Merriam Webster do not make sense in this case?

Oxford:
“liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Merriam-Webster:
“frequently encountered or widely accepted”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

What are you going on about?

The popularity of Rabid doesn’t mean “many PvP Necros go Rabid”.

Your assumption that;

I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

…based on its popularity is wrong.