Guild Wars 2

Mesmers have the right amount of stealth.
Thieves don’t. They have way too much. An enemy thief in WVW just teled and cloaked every 3-4 seconds in a group of 6 enemies, and didn’t die. No one could hit him, cause he just kept spamming cloak and tele skills. Immobilize and/or KD? No, they just tele and cloak instantly. Can you think of any other class that can survive like that? Yeah they have no armor, but neither do eles, and they get instantly downed in a ground of 6 enemy players.
Every class is supposed to have their own role, and every class can be countered by another, but this is just a little too much. Just take away some cloaking skills; change them, reduce the cloak time or whatever, it’s just way too much right now. Now, since I’ll get raged and cursed at if I just leave it at this, suggestions on how to counter cloaking?

TLDR: read the bottom comments first before you tell me L2P.

What did this thief accomplish? Oh yeah, absolutely nothing other than waste 6+ people’s time

when mesmers spam stealth, they can still cast phantoms and summon clones, dealing damage while hidden. Of course they can’t stealth as often as thieves, who have to reveal themselves in order to attack. CnD spamming thieves excel at harassing groups of players who are easily distracted, which you seem to fall under. Just ignore the thief until he opens, then fight him.

Carpboy.7145:

What did this thief accomplish? Oh yeah, absolutely nothing other than waste 6+ people’s time

^ This. The thief did its job. There are some builds, that, combined with a decent player, make the thief almost impossible to lock down and kill, no matter the enemy number, if he just wants to troll you and doesn’t attack for the revealed debuff. And yep you got baited into being trolled, judging from your post. The correct answer here would be – leave 1 guy(preferably not glass though) with the npcs in the camp and move on to an objective. If you 6 weren’t even near a supply camp, but chasing 1 thief in an empty field, I question your ability to play WvW tactically.

A single thief doing it is just trolling. 5 thieves doing it…they’re wiping that group easily. 4 backstab the same enemy for an insta-down, the last one stomps him. Happened to me in WvW.

Lol pro tip op even when there invisible………..there still there!!! shocking right? So aoe it maybe? and to “counter cnd” you could always dodge and then it miss’s and hes visible still, ground breaking stuff. Getting old listening to people whining about stealth a year+ into this game its not rocket science.

RyuDragnier.9476:

A single thief doing it is just trolling. 5 thieves doing it…they’re wiping that group easily. 4 backstab the same enemy for an insta-down, the last one stomps him. Happened to me in WvW.

LOL! 5 of any profession against a group of 6 uncoordinated low skilled opponents should always win.

I do think that SA builds in wvw are overly annoying to play against though. I’m glad they’re largely useless in spvp.

Hype.8032:

RyuDragnier.9476:

A single thief doing it is just trolling. 5 thieves doing it…they’re wiping that group easily. 4 backstab the same enemy for an insta-down, the last one stomps him. Happened to me in WvW.

LOL! 5 of any profession against a group of 6 uncoordinated low skilled opponents should always win.

I do think that SA builds in wvw are overly annoying to play against though. I’m glad they’re largely useless in spvp.

You might have seen that group around Hype, they were a DB group. Had to give them props for coordinating ganks on a zerg’s backline like that too.

Carpboy.7145:

What did this thief accomplish? Oh yeah, absolutely nothing other than waste 6+ people’s time

You sir are the man! “gives high-five”

They only thing that is broken stealth wise for a thief is d/p because it’s stealth on the go and requires minimal timing/no target. D/p is just annoying to fight though so that’s what shapes my opinion about it.

eye floater.7140:

Now, since I’ll get raged and cursed at if I just leave it at this, suggestions on how to counter cloaking?

Learn to play.
Roll a thief.
Experience how “godmode” is by yourself.

eye floater.7140:

Now, since I’ll get raged and cursed at if I just leave it at this, suggestions on how to counter cloaking?

Depends entirely on the method of cloaking, if its a d/d thief using cloak and dagger attack it is VERY telegraphed, press your dodge key, bam one key counter that every class has.
If its a d/p thief interrupt the bp/hs combo, same goes for a thief blasting a smoke field, though this is less common during combat.
If its a thief using shadow refuge, pull/push them out of the field and they lose stealth and gain revealed.
If its a thief using blinding powder, its 3 seconds, press your sidestep and forward keys, moving your character, maybe even mix in a dodge if it can benefit you (as in mesmer clone on dodge etc)

This is the definition of l2p, considering there are 10,000 other pointless threads like this, i hope you delete your post and this thread gets removed to not waste more space

I think almost every thief on this forum thinks right now this was them thats being posted about… am i right? :P

But yea… Elementalists and Warriors have just as much survivability as a thief… only difference being that a thief has the potential of being able to stay in the battle zone longer. Warriors just GS the kitten out of the place. Ive seen a fair good amount of players on almost all classes now where when played right, are just as OP as a thief is.

Easy fix, have Revealed Status on any stealth skill after the stealth goes away, for any reason.
Got out of stealth before timer ended: Revealed, Let timer run out: Revealed. No more silly “stealth spam get out of harms way free card”.

Angel.4581:

Easy fix, have Revealed Status on any stealth skill after the stealth goes away, for any reason.
Got out of stealth before timer ended: Revealed, Let timer run out: Revealed. No more silly “stealth spam get out of harms way free card”.

This has been suggested more times than you can count, and unless the class is given more defense out of stealth it will never happen, so dont hold your breath. Look at the coming changes, in the NON stealth line acrobatics, they are adding a STEALTH based gm trait, another stealth based trait in deadly arts and a stealth trait in shadow arts, 3 of 5 new traits are stealth based. keep dreaming

That would break the class quite a bit. If I stealth and to negate dmg my enemy pops protection, I’m not gonna hit through it doing 33% less damage. Instead I’ll wait and restealth as he put counter play on me to a extent. My counter is not taking the reveal with way less damage. If I reveal anyway just because, then what’s my option for counter play?

eye floater.7140:

Now, since I’ll get raged and cursed at if I just leave it at this, suggestions on how to counter cloaking?

Figure out the rhythm of the thief CnD’ing you, then dodge roll right when he needs to re-stealth again.

If he’s using blackpowder + heartseeker, interrupt (preferably a knockback away from the blackpowder spot) the heartseeker. It will, at the very least, cost him 12 initiative to get one stack of stealth, and, at the very worst, another 9 initiative to re-stealth up.

Splatter Paw.7238:

Lol pro tip op even when there invisible………..there still there!!! shocking right? So aoe it maybe? and to “counter cnd” you could always dodge and then it miss’s and hes visible still, ground breaking stuff. Getting old listening to people whining about stealth a year+ into this game its not rocket science.

It’s funny when people pretend like what they suggest is really that simple. Say you’re roaming solo, and you come across a thief. You see him in the distance, you keep an eye out though, and keep running. Then you see him closer, and again he disappears. 4 seconds later you get stunned, so you use a stunbreaker or a block to stop his chain. He sees your block and cloaks again. You’ve just used a skill with a 60 second CD, and he pops up a few second later and stuns/attacks again, so you dodge and throw down whatever evasive/AoE attacks you have. This just happens over and over, depends on who you’re fighting. The point is, if you are beating the theif, he’ll just cloak and teleport away, and you’ll have no idea where he is because you CANT SEE HIM. Almost any other class can be run down and finished off, but thief can’t in most cases. Yes, much of it is a L2P issue, but I think thieves rely on stealth too much. It’s the dev’s fault, really.

What class do you play anyway, gimme the class I’ll tell you what method I use. Tbh I made a thief cause I thought they were op, after learning one there allot easier to fight. Sorry for getting so short but a post similar to yours is on our forums way to often and it’s more qq, than what should I have done ya know?

counter to stealth = Stealth trap (30 second reveal)

Have fun laughing at thieves when they walk on the trap.

eye floater.7140:

Almost any other class can be run down and finished off, but thief can’t in most cases. Yes, much of it is a L2P issue, but I think thieves rely on stealth too much.

Warriors can pretty much outrun anything, those guys can fly off like Usain Bolt when they want to disengage or just decide that they don’t want a fight.

Thieves rely too much on their class specialty? You don’t say…. This is just all amounting to far too much Qew Qew from an inexperienced player.

Roll a thief, learn how it works and you’ll soon learn and understand counters for it.

Stealth isn’t the class specialty, Static. Initiative and stolen objects are.

Initiative is a mechanic not a specialty. I feel like you’re arguing for the sake of it… Semantics, good contribution.

So many ways to counter a thief. You should roll one and see what is the pattern, because there is always one. He have a D/D or D/P, he WILL backstab you. Make him waste his Backstab because they are costly in initiative. The best is when you make him miss his stealth CnD or BP+Heartseeker. That waste initiative like crazy, pushing the thief into his utilities. Check if he have a signet of shadow, if he have he will only have 2 stealth with his utilities, maybe only 1. Prepare to push him out of his Shadow Refuge, that will kitten him off. Denied some of his stealth and he’s gonna be an easy target. And when you can’t? AoE the crap in your back, force the thief to take a beating to backstab you. And keep your burst for the 3-4 second after he backstab you, because you know he won’t be able to stealth right away.

eye floater.7140:

Splatter Paw.7238:

Lol pro tip op even when there invisible………..there still there!!! shocking right? So aoe it maybe? and to “counter cnd” you could always dodge and then it miss’s and hes visible still, ground breaking stuff. Getting old listening to people whining about stealth a year+ into this game its not rocket science.

It’s funny when people pretend like what they suggest is really that simple. Say you’re roaming solo, and you come across a thief. You see him in the distance, you keep an eye out though, and keep running. Then you see him closer, and again he disappears. 4 seconds later you get stunned, so you use a stunbreaker or a block to stop his chain. He sees your block and cloaks again. You’ve just used a skill with a 60 second CD, and he pops up a few second later and stuns/attacks again, so you dodge and throw down whatever evasive/AoE attacks you have. This just happens over and over, depends on who you’re fighting. The point is, if you are beating the theif, he’ll just cloak and teleport away, and you’ll have no idea where he is because you CANT SEE HIM. Almost any other class can be run down and finished off, but thief can’t in most cases. Yes, much of it is a L2P issue, but I think thieves rely on stealth too much. It’s the dev’s fault, really.

Umm, first of all, you can’t CnD off of someone using a block, so I’m assuming that you are talking about a D/P thief. Second thing that’s off is a thief can’t stun you that many times. Basilisk Venon has a pretty hefty CD for a 1.5 second stun.
Here’s your problem, you panic. You “throw down whatever evasive/AoE attacks you have”. This is the WORST idea I have ever quoted someone saying. You kill a thief by staying calm and using AoE and evasive attacks at the RIGHT time, not all at once. That’s what makes you an easy target.

@OP
The access to stealth is no problem, its stealth.

Part i really dont get is you say you see the thief and keep a eye on him. sounds good so far….. then he stealths again and 4 sec later your stunned. STOP THERE. If hes in range of attack and vanishes what do you think hes gonna do by time his stealth is up? most likely he is gonna attack you thats when you know hes comming. Instead your method goes like this
-see thief in distance
-he gets in range and vanishes
-since i cant see him ill wait to eat his entire opening burst
-now that im under 50% and near dead im gonna panic and drop everything i have
-thief waits a second or so while you squirm and burn every defense
-he HS one time and ends it
You realize wether or not you VISUALLY see them hes still there and trying to get within that small melee range to hit you. See him vanish? count down to three and hit dodge youd be shocked how many times a evade pops up. That one evade just negated 50% of your hp lost, and put the theif in the open.

Cronicle.5691:

counter to stealth = Stealth trap (30 second reveal)

Have fun laughing at thieves when they walk on the trap.

So every time I see a thief, I should use 10 supply and hang around the trap until I get attacked?

eye floater.7140:

Cronicle.5691:

counter to stealth = Stealth trap (30 second reveal)

Have fun laughing at thieves when they walk on the trap.

So every time I see a thief, I should use 10 supply and hang around the trap until I get attacked?

No. Simply learning to play is enough

Static.9841:

eye floater.7140:

Almost any other class can be run down and finished off, but thief can’t in most cases. Yes, much of it is a L2P issue, but I think thieves rely on stealth too much.

Warriors can pretty much outrun anything, those guys can fly off like Usain Bolt when they want to disengage or just decide that they don’t want a fight.

Thieves rely too much on their class specialty? You don’t say…. This is just all amounting to far too much Qew Qew from an inexperienced player.

Roll a thief, learn how it works and you’ll soon learn and understand counters for it.

Qew Qew is good! Who taught you that one?
Anyway, if a thief pops up in a 20-man zerg, quickly tries to dispatch a a player and fails? Well then he can just stealth + tele and gtfo of there in the blink of an eye, 95% of the time. Name one other class that can do that.

Thieves are the most annoying class in the game, and I’m pretty sure most people agree on that. No one want’s to be harassed, but that’s basically the core of thief game-play, and it’s encouraged with the range of downright annoying abilities at their disposal. That’s why people hate thieves; it’s the ultimate troll class, and it kittenes people the kitten off to the point where they feel the need to rage and/or shout for stealth nerfs.
Why do you think there are so many people complaining? Are they just all horrible, inexperienced players?
I get kittened at thieves who stomp me in a crowd of 8 or more of my allies and tele away without death; 1v1 deaths to thieves are mostly not the issue.

Carpboy.7145:

eye floater.7140:

Cronicle.5691:

counter to stealth = Stealth trap (30 second reveal)

Have fun laughing at thieves when they walk on the trap.

So every time I see a thief, I should use 10 supply and hang around the trap until I get attacked?

No. Simply learning to play is enough

That’s good advice!

Love how he focuses on the trap and not what ppl actually suggested play style wise. JUST USE DODGE…… and common sense, two missed CnD is a thief with no initiative = easy kill

oscuro.9720:

eye floater.7140:

Splatter Paw.7238:

Lol pro tip op even when there invisible………..there still there!!! shocking right? So aoe it maybe? and to “counter cnd” you could always dodge and then it miss’s and hes visible still, ground breaking stuff. Getting old listening to people whining about stealth a year+ into this game its not rocket science.

It’s funny when people pretend like what they suggest is really that simple. Say you’re roaming solo, and you come across a thief. You see him in the distance, you keep an eye out though, and keep running. Then you see him closer, and again he disappears. 4 seconds later you get stunned, so you use a stunbreaker or a block to stop his chain. He sees your block and cloaks again. You’ve just used a skill with a 60 second CD, and he pops up a few second later and stuns/attacks again, so you dodge and throw down whatever evasive/AoE attacks you have. This just happens over and over, depends on who you’re fighting. The point is, if you are beating the theif, he’ll just cloak and teleport away, and you’ll have no idea where he is because you CANT SEE HIM. Almost any other class can be run down and finished off, but thief can’t in most cases. Yes, much of it is a L2P issue, but I think thieves rely on stealth too much. It’s the dev’s fault, really.

Umm, first of all, you can’t CnD off of someone using a block, so I’m assuming that you are talking about a D/P thief. Second thing that’s off is a thief can’t stun you that many times. Basilisk Venon has a pretty hefty CD for a 1.5 second stun.
Here’s your problem, you panic. You “throw down whatever evasive/AoE attacks you have”. This is the WORST idea I have ever quoted someone saying. You kill a thief by staying calm and using AoE and evasive attacks at the RIGHT time, not all at once. That’s what makes you an easy target.

See above reply, I thought about the reasons for my dislike of thieves a bit more and posted my main qualm.

@ OP: Since you asked for advice and didn’t tell us what class you play (even when asked by Splatter Pew), I’ll ask as well, since strategies and advice will vary from class to class.

Uhh every had a dual stability war stomp you and GS away faster than a thief can chase? What about a PU mesmer invisible stomping you while his clones eat the rest of your buddies and he blinks fir 1200 range laced with prot, and aegis? A thief had a limited amount of ports and toss to escape

Splatter Paw.7238:

Love how he focuses on the trap and not what ppl actually suggested play style wise. JUST USE DODGE…… and common sense, two missed CnD is a thief with no initiative = easy kill

I replied to that comment because it’s a pretty worthless idea, though I think he wasn’t quite serious.
As for you…
Don’t you think it’s common knowledge that people wait 3 seconds before dodging? Do you think most thieves know that? Maybe they attack immediately after they go into stealth. Maybe 2 seconds in. Maybe they don’t attack at all, and you’ve wasted one of your two dodges for the time being. Again, I did change my mind about a few things and realized that my losing to thieves right off the bat is mostly just me not reacting correctly. As far as “JUST USE DODGE” and “no initiative = easy kill”, well, that’s oversimplifying it just a bit. Or maybe a lot. Or maybe, well never mind, you get the idea.
Bottom line is, you can’t predict anything with someone who know’s you’re predicting.

And I did read all the comments, and will try being calmer and utilizing my skills correctly next time I encounter a thief. I didn’t reply to them because I’d just be posting multiple comments with only the text “Thanks, I’ll try that.”

Maugetarr.6823:

@ OP: Since you asked for advice and didn’t tell us what class you play (even when asked by Splatter Pew), I’ll ask as well, since strategies and advice will vary from class to class.

I’ve been playing ele recently. My ranger is actually the class I have the least trouble with thieves on.

Splatter Paw.7238:

Uhh every had a dual stability war stomp you and GS away faster than a thief can chase? What about a PU mesmer invisible stomping you while his clones eat the rest of your buddies and he blinks fir 1200 range laced with prot, and aegis? A thief had a limited amount of ports and toss to escape

Wars can’t usually win vs 6+ people.
I think you’re overestimating the power of clones. One whirlwind or whirling wrath and they’re all dead…
I enjoyed the stories though.

Lol ok tell you what have fun being a loot bag, the tips your shooting down are how I eat thieves, but if lot bag is your choice then do be it. It’s not over simplified, your just trying to make it more complicated than it is

Splatter Paw.7238:

Lol ok tell you what have fun being a loot bag, the tips your shooting down are how I eat thieves, but if lot bag is your choice then do be it. It’s not over simplified, your just trying to make it more complicated than it is

Your tips are as useless as your guess for the winning march madness bracket. You can’t give someone advice on something as complicated as this. Unless all thieves attack after 3 seconds, that’s one tip down the drain.
My original post was inviting advice for 1v1 fights, but I wasn’t exactly sure why I hated thieves so much, so I was just venting. If you read my above post, I did narrow down my dislike of thieves to one area. As for the 1v1 failure, as much as I hate to admit it, I just need to learn the countermeasures, or in short, l2p against thieves as an ele.
I will, but no one can teach me! Thanks for your somewhat civil advice though.

eye floater.7140:

Maugetarr.6823:

@ OP: Since you asked for advice and didn’t tell us what class you play (even when asked by Splatter Pew), I’ll ask as well, since strategies and advice will vary from class to class.

I’ve been playing ele recently. My ranger is actually the class I have the least trouble with thieves on.

Ah, well then my experience with ele is limited, but I will say one of the better eles in my guild who is very difficult to spar against (he uses D/D and 0/0/20/20/30 I believe) typically tries to whittle down my health to about 60% then burst using magnetic grasp and then the Burning Speed+LF combo(since it puts all the damage in one spot)>RoF, and then Updraft+autos if I didn’t avoid the combo but somehow managed to survive, or RtL>updraft if I managed to avoid the initial burst. If it’s a D/D thief, countering a CnD attack with updraft early in the fight then burst can often end it pretty quickly.

This diamond skin D/D build video that you’ve probably seen takes down quite a number of thieves through the course of it. I would recommend adapting his burst combo into your style (if you’re D/D). How he reacts to the thief at 2:10 is probably what you want to attempt since it’s extremely important as an ele to stay aggressive against thieves and push them off of you(or kill them). The big group fight also has a part where he reacts to a thief in the middle of the fight, so that would also be something to pay attention to.

Hope this is at least a jumping off point, as I am currently leveling my ele so I can’t give you as much first person advice as one of my other 80 alts.

Maugetarr.6823:

eye floater.7140:

Maugetarr.6823:

@ OP: Since you asked for advice and didn’t tell us what class you play (even when asked by Splatter Pew), I’ll ask as well, since strategies and advice will vary from class to class.

I’ve been playing ele recently. My ranger is actually the class I have the least trouble with thieves on.

Ah, well then my experience with ele is limited, but I will say one of the better eles in my guild who is very difficult to spar against (he uses D/D and 0/0/20/20/30 I believe) typically tries to whittle down my health to about 60% then burst using magnetic grasp and then the Burning Speed+LF combo(since it puts all the damage in one spot)>RoF, and then Updraft+autos if I didn’t avoid the combo but somehow managed to survive, or RtL>updraft if I managed to avoid the initial burst. If it’s a D/D thief, countering a CnD attack with updraft early in the fight then burst can often end it pretty quickly.

This diamond skin D/D build video that you’ve probably seen takes down quite a number of thieves through the course of it. I would recommend adapting his burst combo into your style (if you’re D/D). How he reacts to the thief at 2:10 is probably what you want to attempt since it’s extremely important as an ele to stay aggressive against thieves and push them off of you(or kill them). The big group fight also has a part where he reacts to a thief in the middle of the fight, so that would also be something to pay attention to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUUti8OfCj4

Hope this is at least a jumping off point, as I am currently leveling my ele so I can’t give you as much first person advice as one of my other 80 alts.

Thanks, I may just have to break out my daggers and try that. I’ve been running staff (which I love compared to D/D), so mobility is a little bit lacking.

Frankly I would be surprised if you beat a thief in a 1v1 with a staff build since it’s much better suited to group fights and support roles. That same guild member ele has had close to 10 minute fights with me where he successfully bunkered very well with the staff, but it’s sort of like a thief going into a fight and only using shortbow which isn’t powerful enough to kill anyone on it’s own, but has decent utility.

Happy hunting.

eye floater.7140:

Mesmers have the right amount of stealth.
Thieves don’t. They have way too much. An enemy thief in WVW just teled and cloaked every 3-4 seconds in a group of 6 enemies, and didn’t die. No one could hit him, cause he just kept spamming cloak and tele skills. Immobilize and/or KD? No, they just tele and cloak instantly. Can you think of any other class that can survive like that? Yeah they have no armor, but neither do eles, and they get instantly downed in a ground of 6 enemy players.
Every class is supposed to have their own role, and every class can be countered by another, but this is just a little too much. Just take away some cloaking skills; change them, reduce the cloak time or whatever, it’s just way too much right now. Now, since I’ll get raged and cursed at if I just leave it at this, suggestions on how to counter cloaking?

TLDR: read the bottom comments first before you tell me L2P.

I don’t see a problem with this, the thief kited you and killed nobody? So can the warrior, so can the ele, so can mesmers, etc.

No wonder you were having a hard time you were roaming with a staff ele. My advice would be to ask the ele forum for good roaming builds and watch some videos to pick up some tips and tricks as well

So, let me preface this by saying that I am a Warrior main. As such I hate all stealthing classes and find them boring to fight and generally obnoxious. However, I used to feel that in most situations where I wasn’t backstabbed at 25% HP (I’m OK with that that’s what the rouge archetype does) I had a fair chance if I avoided the initial burst.

Tonight that view changed. My guild encountered a Thief that had the ability to not only survive an onslaught of 3 players, but could also hit hard enough to down us. He never got to stomp because we all know to lay down CC on the downed guy then res, but the fact was that the second you got his health low he would vanish and then appear shortly after back at full health. These are not bad players. Most of us hit all of our skills but it never mattered, they could always escape, heal up, then go right back on the offense. D/P Thieves I can beat by forcing them to use their countermeasures then popping Zerker Stance and going for the kill, but this build had countermeasures on such a short CD that multiple CC focused builds couldn’t stop him.

I can’t say I know enough about Thief traits to say exactly what they were running but I do know that the combination of Sword/Dagger could strip our Guardian of boons and then burst them down. Their use of Infiltrator’s Return and Withdraw allowed them to quickly disengage when things looked hairy. What made things worse is that we KNOW we downed him via the scream, but because they always stealthed when they got low they could just stack more stealth while we flail around with no clear idea of where he was. THAT is what ate at me the most. They went down, but because getting downed doesn’t reveal you (which is stupid) you aren’t always punished for it.

It felt like it was less about their personal skill and more that the stealth itself allowed them to do things that shouldn’t be possible. This isn’t your ambush class archetype, this is sustained assassination. Even though we chained CC’d, Immob, you name it, it didn’t matter because all they had to do was chain stealth a few times and they would be all healed up again.

Rogue-like classes are supposed to excel at either high amounts of burst damage via ambushing their target or being more of a bruiser and using dexterity to avoid getting hurt but staying in the fray. In GW2 as a Thief it is possible to do both in one build. It seems that if you mess up your ambush you aren’t generally punished, you can simply stealth up and try again. I am so sick of this “you can still hit them when they’re stealthed” because while that’s true said Thief can use any number of methods to get the hell away from the danger all while healing up. This will only get worse on the 15th when they’ll be tougher while stealthed.

It seems like it’s too late to do a total redesign of Thief, but what we need is more anti-stealth mechanics in the game. Giving even a single ability to apply reveal for a few seconds would give you a chance to punish a Thief for screwing up. The same applies to Mesmers, the ability to harm your foe while remaining invisible offers little counterplay and simply shouldn’t exist.

I see no other way, as a complete rework of stealth and revealed time.

Stealth is in every game one of the strongest mechanics, but have features to restrict it.
Not so in GW2: The access to stealth is easy, cheap and the duration and revealed time to short to let it be more, than a simple spamskill, while these things make it stronger, than necessary.

I agree with people, who want more counter against stealth, but at first let us fix this broken and bad balanced mechanic and classes, which are severely restricted and/or nearly undefeatable by stealth, before we do the wrong things.

eye floater.7140:

Maugetarr.6823:

@ OP: Since you asked for advice and didn’t tell us what class you play (even when asked by Splatter Pew), I’ll ask as well, since strategies and advice will vary from class to class.

I’ve been playing ele recently. My ranger is actually the class I have the least trouble with thieves on.

Why ele need nerf.

As long they remain in their current design, they will remain this way.

As i said before, it’s in their design: thief need a complete redesign.

BurrTheKing.8571:

So, let me preface this by saying that I am a Warrior main. As such I hate all stealthing classes and find them boring to fight and generally obnoxious. However, I used to feel that in most situations where I wasn’t backstabbed at 25% HP (I’m OK with that that’s what the rouge archetype does) I had a fair chance if I avoided the initial burst.

Tonight that view changed. My guild encountered a Thief that had the ability to not only survive an onslaught of 3 players, but could also hit hard enough to down us. He never got to stomp because we all know to lay down CC on the downed guy then res, but the fact was that the second you got his health low he would vanish and then appear shortly after back at full health. These are not bad players. Most of us hit all of our skills but it never mattered, they could always escape, heal up, then go right back on the offense. D/P Thieves I can beat by forcing them to use their countermeasures then popping Zerker Stance and going for the kill, but this build had countermeasures on such a short CD that multiple CC focused builds couldn’t stop him.

I can’t say I know enough about Thief traits to say exactly what they were running but I do know that the combination of Sword/Dagger could strip our Guardian of boons and then burst them down. Their use of Infiltrator’s Return and Withdraw allowed them to quickly disengage when things looked hairy. What made things worse is that we KNOW we downed him via the scream, but because they always stealthed when they got low they could just stack more stealth while we flail around with no clear idea of where he was. THAT is what ate at me the most. They went down, but because getting downed doesn’t reveal you (which is stupid) you aren’t always punished for it.

It felt like it was less about their personal skill and more that the stealth itself allowed them to do things that shouldn’t be possible. This isn’t your ambush class archetype, this is sustained assassination. Even though we chained CC’d, Immob, you name it, it didn’t matter because all they had to do was chain stealth a few times and they would be all healed up again.

Rogue-like classes are supposed to excel at either high amounts of burst damage via ambushing their target or being more of a bruiser and using dexterity to avoid getting hurt but staying in the fray. In GW2 as a Thief it is possible to do both in one build. It seems that if you mess up your ambush you aren’t generally punished, you can simply stealth up and try again. I am so sick of this “you can still hit them when they’re stealthed” because while that’s true said Thief can use any number of methods to get the hell away from the danger all while healing up. This will only get worse on the 15th when they’ll be tougher while stealthed.

It seems like it’s too late to do a total redesign of Thief, but what we need is more anti-stealth mechanics in the game. Giving even a single ability to apply reveal for a few seconds would give you a chance to punish a Thief for screwing up. The same applies to Mesmers, the ability to harm your foe while remaining invisible offers little counterplay and simply shouldn’t exist.

There are so many things wrong with this post.

Namely 1 2 3 4 dodge/block.

I said this about Stealth over a year ago, when the game was still in it’s infancy.

I said stealth was a flawed mechanic, it did not have trade-offs and the way Initiative works wasn’t resulting in fun game-play for Thieves or fun counter-play against Thieves.

Naturally the Thief community insulted me and told me “stealth is fine”.

I’m glad more people are coming around to this issue though.