Guild Wars 2

I’ve heard staff, double daggers, condi, non condi, getting confused.

Just glad to hear about a good non metabattle build for once.

It’s only a matter of time before it is posted on there. There’s a reason these builds become meta.

I’m also curious, had a d/d+staff thief wreck me in wvw and I never die to thieves, ever.

bump. Anyone know?

What I am most confused about is why d/d would be paired with staff? Shouldn’t it be d/d – shortbow? Shortbow is far more condi-oriented than staff, and it is weird having 2 melee weapons. Sure, staff can be used to stack vulnerability, but that doesn’t seem like enough to win over shortbow…

Hahaha. I know. I’ve been wrecking face in wvw with NO stealth. I’ve won 1 vs 6 with it, which was witnessed 3 days ago when I was commanding from my squad in the tower. But I’m not telling cause I don’t want to fight someone running that build! (unless you’re on Yak’s Bend, in that case you can ask kitten on TS to enlighten you!)

Ask kitten on TS for build, that is!

Rrrrr… (d) (e)® (p)

In before Josh X T links his unoriginal and subpar build and his twitch channel to his…highly probable full celestial build claiming to be the build you fought.

Back on topic. Furajir…you dueled one of my thief guildies named Havoc and Anarchy. We have a few thieves in the guild that’s also better than him. I recommend dueling them and you will change your win record versus thieves. Start with min scherzo.

not sure what is going on wvw, but spvp Ive tested

trickery version, more boon removal: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn0MBlOhNPBWOBkmilWCTLAcAWAzlwV4L0rMEpSRA-TpxBQBE4QA0wyAGc/hl9AAAwJAADHBAA

acro version, more constant dodges: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn0MBlOhNPBWOBkmilWCTLAcAWAdLmGVVYuEuCfhA-TpxBQBE4QAssHAAAOBANsMgB3fADHBAA

It doesnt have the impact of power thief, but has more aoe capability, can dodge like crazy while sending conditions all over the place.

lLobo.7960:

not sure what is going on wvw, but spvp Ive tested

trickery version, more boon removal: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn0MBlOhNPBWOBkmilWCTLAcAWAzlwV4L0rMEpSRA-TpxBQBE4QA0wyAGc/hl9AAAwJAADHBAA

Your trickery version doesn’t have any extra boon removal. You would need to take Bountiful Theft over Pressure Striking :/

Lettuce.2945:

In before Josh X T links his unoriginal and subpar build and his twitch channel to his…highly probable full celestial build claiming to be the build you fought.

Back on topic. Furajir…you dueled one of my thief guildies named Havoc and Anarchy. We have a few thieves in the guild that’s also better than him. I recommend dueling them and you will change your win record versus thieves. Start with min scherzo.

It’s me.

Also I don’t recall dueling this guy I’m confused. I’m also confused on what this topic is really about because the title is about pvp builds and we’re talking about dueling.

And yes there are better thieves than me in our guild bc I don’t play as much guild wars bc I have real life friends that annoy me. But Min is Asian so hes better than me no matter what

Valoraxel.7296:

lLobo.7960:

not sure what is going on wvw, but spvp Ive tested

trickery version, more boon removal: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn0MBlOhNPBWOBkmilWCTLAcAWAzlwV4L0rMEpSRA-TpxBQBE4QA0wyAGc/hl9AAAwJAADHBAA

Your trickery version doesn’t have any extra boon removal. You would need to take Bountiful Theft over Pressure Striking :/

Yea, got those misplaced…
I’ve tried with interrupt on steal and torment on interrupts, or with confusion and boon stealing…

In any case, I found that trickery can’t keep the dodging as much as acro can, and the ini on evade from acro makes you able to keep longer on fights.

all in all, trickery versions seem better for +1,
acro version seems better for 1vX and holding pts.

keep in mind I haven’t done extensive testing or claim to be a 1337 teef pro.
Just some test builds I’ve tried on an odd night after getting to ruby and not worried of loosing tiers…

still want to try with healing signet…

I’m confused why would there be a new build now?

odstninja.1468:

I’ve heard staff, double daggers, condi, non condi, getting confused.

Just glad to hear about a good non metabattle build for once.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYWn8lClOhNPBGmCkmiFqiqrnCgDw7C+gtbO77+wH-TpRAABgcIAIrMQW7PAwJAI6HAwGHBAA

This is the build, but it works better if you swap staff for sb.

It is literally just spamming 3 and dodge, as you can regain endurance fast thanks to uber vigor from acrobatics, the acro trait that gives you 2 dodges (only skillfull thing about this build is eating a cc on purpose to trigger hard to catch in order to get endurance to spam more torment with dodges), and the heal skill (heal skill endurance regen + trait + rune =85 endurance every 16 sec. for reference 100 endurance is equal to 2 dodges so it is pretty busted).

also to the other ppl who posted builds sage amulet on thief is trash as thief has no use for precision (no on crit traits or scaling traits from precision) for condi builds and healing power too is trash unless you go with assassin’s reward and combine it with another rapid heal source (like driven fortitude).

Ryou.2398:

I’m confused why would there be a new build now?

It is not a new build it is one of the oldest thief builds that was re kindled with HoT. It’s just that thief players only now realized how busted condis are so they got drawn to this abomination.

caltrops on point steal 33 dodge 33 dodge 33 dodge channeled vigor 33 dodge 33 dodge steal dodge <- this is pretty much how you play it.

It easy to counter. There nothing wrong with the build that calls for its removal. DP i n many ways is still easier and is very much deadlier. One more time people confuse pressing more buttons with skill. It no more diffcult for me to press 3 on dp three times in a row, then dodge dodge then press 5 2.

That extra endurance gain out of Acro works just as well with s/d p/p or any other weaponset a person takes in conjunction with acro. You will get even more endurance gain taking staff mastery as a weapon in conjunction with acro. People that skip acro do so because they want more damage overall.

The Dblossom build is harder to kill quickly but in turn kills at a slow pace. Against people who understand how the build works it dies very quickly.

Some variants to consider.

For more sustain take SOM with healing. This can get you significantly more heals per dblossom especially against more than one enemy at a time. Minions from a MM, ranger pets, mesmer phantasms will all offer added healing.

In trickery more INI can be garnered by taking quickpockets. Use Swap to shortbow to create a poison field then swap and whirls. One can also take another d/d set with geomancy on and swap back and forth but this lacks mobility and utility. Keep in mind that trickery will add considerably to condition damage with lead attacks kept full.

With SOM taken as the heal GI works very well. You keep those extra conditions off and it an excellent counter to confusion. This added condition removal means escapists more effective.

Caltrops offers even more healing when using SOM but the problem is outside of holding a point most people will get out of the caltrops. Your uncatcable caltrops tend to be more effective.

In my opinion if this build being seen more in PvP it a temporary thing. It just does not have enough upsides and as people learn to cope with it the build becomnes less effective. There little in the build that allows you to change gameplay on the fly dependent on the opponents skill or build so it not very flexible in that regard.

Maybe the best thing about this build is that it irritates the hell out of the builds I find tend to irritate me like the PU condi mesmer and the Engineer with all of those passive defenses and invulnerabilies.

You’ll have less success spamming 3 on D/P meta than you will on D/D condi, and even then, you’ll have decent success spamming 3 on D/P meta.

All builds and classes require fair timing and can be countered in some way. It’s the threshold of how good of timing is needed and how many counters there are and how commonly those counters are used that determines how strong the build is.

Even if Shadow Shot or Infil Arrow got nerfed, it’s not going to make D/P Shortbow less viable in sPvP, and even if they buffed the damage on a few D/D skills, it won’t improve power D/D’s viability in any format.

What might have many people thinking the build is OP is this.

The build does very well against multiple opponents in relative terms when stacked up against a power build like d/p. DB and Impaling strike multiple targets inflicting equal damage on each for up to three targets. Added to that by fighting three targets at once the “on evade” traits such as Condition cleanse, vigor, extra INI from upper hand and heal off driven fortitude are more likely to kick in. With SOM used as a heal against multiple opponents you can triple the incoming heal off SOM and impaling lotus.

This is a significant advantage and gives the illusion that it OP. The fact is these advantages only occur if the enemy insists on closing to melee range and swapping attacks and or are unable to time their attacks for in between those evade frames.

Now with a d/p shadowshot spam I can get 4K+ rather easily on a single attack. This more than a single death blossom can achieve against a single target but if looking at total damage when one has multiple opponents , you can pour out a lot with this build if the enemy plays to your style.

DB can achieve over 4k condition damage per application while offering almost three times the number of evades as its power variant while offering the highest possible amount of slipperiness, stunbreaking, and healing of all competitive thief builds.

It is quite frankly mathematically superior even in 1v1 in units of damage per cast and consistency, and is the best build possible build on the thief when analyzing damage output per unit of defense.

The build isn’t overpowered because it doesn’t have a purpose in sPvP at the very high tiers. The +1 role is better-fulfilled by power on the sole basis that burst damage is better-suited to finish off a struggling/disadvantaged foe than condition pressure over time, and for point-holding control, there are strictly better bunker builds out there, which take precedence in team comp when being as immovable as possible is so important.

The problem I have with D/D condi is that it’s just so easy and so one-dimensional that it isn’t fun to play against and isn’t really fair to play against. An opponent with half a brain is going to have the capacity to get better performance with it than he would with almost every other build in the game at his skill level, and there’s a pretty staunch ceiling for how well it can be played because it either gets countered or doesn’t, which often comes from the opponent’s build and to what degree of skill they have directly superior to the condi thief’s.

It’s the same reason I have a strong distaste for DH, Scrapper, and PU condi mes; it’s very safe and isn’t really fun or fair to play as or against. Even if the damage was put into a separate skill like a reworked Dancing Dagger (just as I vouch for nerfing Shadow Shot’s damage because I too think this ability’s raw numbers are over-tuned for its utility) and even buffed, it wouldn’t be as big of an issue, because at least there’s some decision-making in respects to if and when to spend initiative on damage or defensive action, and gaining some diversity in skill use. Hell, even DT could probably cause a few poison stacks every backstab, just to reward and encourage players to diversify skill use and give incentive to smarter and dynamic play.

This reminds me of the duel I saw today in wvw, 2 condi d/d thieves just spamming 3 on each other , it went nowhere … For a very long time

Loading.4503:

This reminds me of the duel I saw today in wvw, 2 condi d/d thieves just spamming 3 on each other , it went nowhere … For a very long time

Lots can go that way. I watched thief d/p fight a mesmer there the other night and it just went on and on. I do not think I ever saw two d/d condi thieves but that would take a long long time. I really do not know how it can end.

OP, the “new” build is apparently D/D + Staff. This could only kind of work with sinister or viper, but that seriously reduces the effectiveness of Vault and leaves you full glass. A dedicated carrion D/D build will be more durable with the same condi output and zerk/marauder Staff will hit harder and have a bit more health. Not to mention both would also get more mobility by running SB secondary. D/D + Staff hybrid is just a bad idea imo.

Zodryn.4216:

OP, the “new” build is apparently D/D + Staff. This could only kind of work with sinister or viper, but that seriously reduces the effectiveness of Vault and leaves you full glass. A dedicated carrion D/D build will be more durable with the same condi output and zerk/marauder Staff will hit harder and have a bit more health. Not to mention both would also get more mobility by running SB secondary. D/D + Staff hybrid is just a bad idea imo.

That’s what I was thinking, staff doesn’t even help with conditions any. Just more leaps for evade but d/d 3 already does that so staff makes no sense to me (other than maybe blind for stomp but d/p can do that too.

Can also get the blind on shortbow 5, and get all of the mobility benefits for point capture, and get better zone control and condition output per initiative via CB and CG. I’m not really sure what the reasoning behind the staff is outside of maybe getting some burst from a sinister/viper-geared player, but even then I’d opt to carrion as you said for durability, and dagger AA provides better damage output if it was really necessary.