Guild Wars 2

Is it just me or are thieves (and daredevils) kinda … well … inferior DPS-wise?
I’m running a full-ascended full-zerk daredevil at the moment and well, every small mob seems to take an eternity to die.
When I’m comparing it to my other classes… the light ones have heavy AoE’s, the heavy ones have high DPS and can just facetank stuff most of the time…
But my thief (dual-wielding daggers at the moment, plus staff or pistols situation wise) has neither good AoE’s nor permanent adds. Maybe I haven’t played enough with him to know useful damage rotations, combos etc but it feels just really slow at the moment and I’m really not looking forward to the Mordremoth story fight….

If you want heavy AoEs, you’re using the wrong weapons. Swap to a Staff instead and lay waste to things with Vault. Dagger/Dagger can give you good single-target DPS with Cloak and Dagger into Backstab, and Heartseeker once the enemy is weakened, but it’s much less effective against crowds.

Your traits will make a difference as well. Running Shadow Arts or Acrobatics is going to reduce your DPS sizably compared to Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes and even Trickery.

Whatever criticism people might have about Thief, your damage output in solo PvE should not be a cause for concern

Nope. In fact it has top tier dps and the highest dps uptime when u factor all offensive support. With that said the reason you are not seeing the huge damage potential the thief has is because you are playing incorrectly, thief is not other classes where all u have to do is press 1 and you will do decent dps. If you are playing D/D to achieve the highest possible dps you use skill 5 then backstab BEHIND the enemy. I can’t stress this enough because people don’t know backstab does dd from behind or the sides. I can do 15k backstabs. Second, use heart seeker when the enemy is below 50% health. This is when heart seekers dmg is buffed. Also set ur build right, there is a website called meta battles that tells u which build will give the most dps. This is another reason why people who play thief say they don’t have high dps, is because they don’t know how to set up good build.

Yes, thief is pretty weak compared to other classes.
Don’t mind the raw damage put out with a backstab, rangers just apply 25 stacks of vulnerability and do the job twice as fast.

I believe that honour goes to Mesmers, which pretty much have to lowest solo DPS in the game.

But no, thief is fine in Solo PvE. I’ve solo’d the Mordremoth without much issues (besides game-breaking bugs).
Sure if you compare us to Reapers, Tempests and the like, which have extremely high AOE damage, then you;re not wrong in saying thieves have worse AOE damage.
However, we do have extremely high Single Target damage (concentrated AOE damage with staff).

For Solo open world PvE, I’d recommend S/P or D/P starting out (if you really need the blinds), but swap to Staff as soon as possible, which pretty much melt mobs.

Traits are important too. Critical Strikes deals more damage overall compared to deadly arts (if you really need trickery), but I personally take both DA and CS along with DrD. It’s more of a high-risk, high reward build, and am able to solo champions as long as i don’t get hit too much.

In short, keep at it, we are not the easiest class to play, but we are not ‘Weak’ in PvE.

EazyPanda.6419:

But no, thief is fine in Solo PvE. I’ve solo’d the Mordremoth without much issues (besides game-breaking bugs).

Don’t forget the (former) biggest advantage thieves have towards npcs: stealth.
I find it easier to solo champs with thief because of that, stealth gives me time to reposition and sometimes to think.
When it comes to usual mobs though most of my chars (all power) do the job faster. I’m a mess with mesmer and partly with engi though, but my engi seems to carry me through everything. Oh and I’m the worst Guard NA and EU but when playing with others I miraculously manage to use the right skills at the right time – don’t ask me why.

Jana.6831:

EazyPanda.6419:

But no, thief is fine in Solo PvE. I’ve solo’d the Mordremoth without much issues (besides game-breaking bugs).

Don’t forget the (former) biggest advantage thieves have towards npcs: stealth.
I find it easier to solo champs with thief because of that, stealth gives me time to reposition and sometimes to think.
When it comes to usual mobs though most of my chars (all power) do the job faster. I’m a mess with mesmer and partly with engi though, but my engi seems to carry me through everything. Oh and I’m the worst Guard NA and EU but when playing with others I miraculously manage to use the right skills at the right time – don’t ask me why.

Hahaha true, it hilarious when you see others trying their hardest to get to hero points in Orr which are guarded by champions, whilst I’ll casually walk by, stealth, grab the HP, and be on my way.
But yeah, the amount of cleave some classes have now makes me jealous. At least now we do have decent AOE with Vault, and vault alone.

Daredevil was one of the first things I tried on picking up this game again. And then after that I tried my ele, and the difference in damage was enormous. Either I’m doing something horrifically wrong (fairly likely), or thief does indeed do way less damage. I can vault 2-3 times in a row to do some good damage, but that’s it. Well, also that one physical skill does some nice single target damage. But that’s really it.

Well, is the Ele you switched to a Berserker staff Ele? Because enemies are dumb and stand in AoEs, Berserker staff Ele will do more damage than anything else. That’s just how it is, no other class is going to compare to that. To be able to deal that damage, though, the Ele needs to basically camp in Fire and rely on enemies standing still inside Lava Fonts and Meteor Showers, something that isn’t always possible, and something that can put the Ele himself at risk if there’s no other players around to draw agro and you need to hold the enemy in place with your own frail body.

In short, it’s not a really good comparison. Yes, it can often outdamage thieves, but it can often outdamage the other seven classes too.

No, it was berserker D/F fresh air.
Last time I played, fresh air had a 5 sec cooldown. It has no cooldown now.

Right now, I’d rank Daredevil DPS as #3, behind two other classes: Herald, Tempest. And tempest is a technicality, as there are plenty of situations where Daredevil does more.

Daredevil DPS in my experience is highly variable. It depends on several things:

#1: The location of the target. Next to a ridge or against a wall is preferred.
#2: The size of the target. Bigger is better.
#3: How well paced their attacks are. An even paced moveset is best.
#4: If they have projectiles that can be reflected, and how well I can predict it.

It all comes down to how much I can cut loose with Weakening Charge. Against a near-ledge target or a cornered enemy, I can cut loose a full fury with Weakening Charge, and do just massive damage. Against large targets, too.

Against smaller targets I have to use the Bound -> Vault -> Charge -> Auto to maximize DPS, with Fist Flurry thrown in for good measure. If the target is particularly troublesome, I can tank it by standing in its face and using vault in place to avoid each attack. That tactic is… surprisingly effective against certain enemies. Against enemies with wide sweeping attacks, I’ll occasionally use dust strike -> auto -> dust strike to disable their moves. Or sometimes I’ll just chain my stuns to keep something disabled.

Even against dangerous enemies I can stay engaged for quite the time. I definitely recommened channeled vigor as a heal, because its healing potential is massive and that extra 1.5 dodges means quite a bit of maintained engagement time.

As for the competitors…

Tempest beats Daredevil against large targets, stationary targets, and enemies that must be engaged at range. As much as I like unload, the fact is that font + fireball is better. Tempest loses to Daredevil against mobile targets, or targets that you have to engage at melee range, and also in situations where sustained damage is unavoidable. The glass is real here, but I’ve found the DD more than capable of surviving.

Herald beats Daredevil in most circumstances, except that in which sustained damage is unavoidable in melee. Heralds don’t have a real “heal” as much as they have a few utility skills that grant health along with their other functions, so I’ve found that in bouts where I need sustain, the Herald starts to fall short. Otherwise, the herald does stupid good DPS by just auto attacking with sword. There is a note here: Heralds have to sacrifice a lot to deal with projectiles, but thieves sacrifice very little.

My revenant hasn’t yet unlocked his elite ( Buddy: “Don’t you dare to do map completion without me, but I’m stuck in an endless pvp loop until I’m diamond – go play some wvw.” Wvw Commander: “OOHHHH ENEMIEEES RUUUNN FOR YOUR LIVEEES!!”

So, I can only compare umm vanilla Rev to Thief (who I play vanilla again as vault destroyed my wrist) :
He’s doing stupidly good, my rev – I’m using Dwarf and Shiro and basically spam both – he’s got insane (understatement) CC, does insane damage with S/S and Hammer (yes, I was able to do a little zerg fighting before the commander ran away again) and staff has got a really nice block against projectiles – hammer as well. Thief’s “block” would be daggerstorm and Bandit’s something which has a taunt included ("yaay, I managed to escape the enemy zerg… wait, why am I running back? ").

Haven’t yet tested Revenant on my usual mobs, but I’m pretty certain that the dps is higher – be it because all the utility and boons which thief has got no access to anymore.

ETA: That was to Blood Red Arachnid’s ranking

Dunno, my vanilla gunslinger envies my (GS) Guardian’s ability to jump into a bunch of mobs, spin around and kill ’em all, and my Guardian having an AA that actually kills stuff!

On the other hand, my Guardian envies my ’slinger’s ability to quickly drop that single PITA enemy who’s too agile to catch, or can spam knockdowns, as she spends ages trying to kill it with her feeble sceptre/torch.

When my ’slinger is doing her usual wandering around, having floppy-eared fun, adventuring, I often see high level members of other classes smacking (or chasing) a single tough mob for ages… cruise in and one-shot it with my godly Unload.

I actually try not to do that too much these days, as I often suspect that if they read the forums (and don’t have a Thief char themselves, on their roster), they’ll think, ‘Yeah, Thief’s weak… cry me a river…’.

[What they don’t see is me being wtf?! insta-killed by a couple of jumped up crabs in Southsun, that they’d laugh in the face of… that’s where Thief needs fixing IMO – I’ve no complaints about the overall damage output.]

Staff is great, consider switching to marauder since your gain in HP is more than your loss in damage stats, maybe using a couple of zealot pieces (could be trinkets or armor) to get good self-heals and shadow refuge group heals, and keep rotations in mind. Don’t mindlessly vault, save it for telegraphs so you get an attack and dodge in one go. It helps to go under settings and lock AoE under target so you can get the skill in without having to release mouse buttons. Staff is also great for the 3 skill that applies cripple and a dodge.

Sword/dagger is great for interrupts and very useful in Silverwaste. I interrupted countless thrashers, teagarrifs, and others with it.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Right now, I’d rank Daredevil DPS as #3, behind two other classes: Herald, Tempest. And tempest is a technicality, as there are plenty of situations where Daredevil does more.

Daredevil DPS in my experience is highly variable. It depends on several things:

#1: The location of the target. Next to a ridge or against a wall is preferred.
#2: The size of the target. Bigger is better.
#3: How well paced their attacks are. An even paced moveset is best.
#4: If they have projectiles that can be reflected, and how well I can predict it.

It all comes down to how much I can cut loose with Weakening Charge. Against a near-ledge target or a cornered enemy, I can cut loose a full fury with Weakening Charge, and do just massive damage. Against large targets, too.

Against smaller targets I have to use the Bound -> Vault -> Charge -> Auto to maximize DPS, with Fist Flurry thrown in for good measure. If the target is particularly troublesome, I can tank it by standing in its face and using vault in place to avoid each attack. That tactic is… surprisingly effective against certain enemies. Against enemies with wide sweeping attacks, I’ll occasionally use dust strike -> auto -> dust strike to disable their moves. Or sometimes I’ll just chain my stuns to keep something disabled.

Even against dangerous enemies I can stay engaged for quite the time. I definitely recommened channeled vigor as a heal, because its healing potential is massive and that extra 1.5 dodges means quite a bit of maintained engagement time.

As for the competitors…

Tempest beats Daredevil against large targets, stationary targets, and enemies that must be engaged at range. As much as I like unload, the fact is that font + fireball is better. Tempest loses to Daredevil against mobile targets, or targets that you have to engage at melee range, and also in situations where sustained damage is unavoidable. The glass is real here, but I’ve found the DD more than capable of surviving.

Herald beats Daredevil in most circumstances, except that in which sustained damage is unavoidable in melee. Heralds don’t have a real “heal” as much as they have a few utility skills that grant health along with their other functions, so I’ve found that in bouts where I need sustain, the Herald starts to fall short. Otherwise, the herald does stupid good DPS by just auto attacking with sword. There is a note here: Heralds have to sacrifice a lot to deal with projectiles, but thieves sacrifice very little.

Well if you’re talking power, I’m pretty positive berserker has higher dps. If we are including condi builds thief isn’t even in the top 5. Engi and berserker blow it out the water. Also as for the healing, herald heal is top tier to the point of being broken. Swapping between Glint and shiro you can heal so often you never stop attacking Champs solo.

Thief is probably around reaper dps. Thief is higher but when enemy drops below 50 it’s much closer with reaper possibly doing more, but I think thief still wins

Azure.8670:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Right now, I’d rank Daredevil DPS as #3, behind two other classes: Herald, Tempest. And tempest is a technicality, as there are plenty of situations where Daredevil does more.

Daredevil DPS in my experience is highly variable. It depends on several things:

#1: The location of the target. Next to a ridge or against a wall is preferred.
#2: The size of the target. Bigger is better.
#3: How well paced their attacks are. An even paced moveset is best.
#4: If they have projectiles that can be reflected, and how well I can predict it.

It all comes down to how much I can cut loose with Weakening Charge. Against a near-ledge target or a cornered enemy, I can cut loose a full fury with Weakening Charge, and do just massive damage. Against large targets, too.

Against smaller targets I have to use the Bound -> Vault -> Charge -> Auto to maximize DPS, with Fist Flurry thrown in for good measure. If the target is particularly troublesome, I can tank it by standing in its face and using vault in place to avoid each attack. That tactic is… surprisingly effective against certain enemies. Against enemies with wide sweeping attacks, I’ll occasionally use dust strike -> auto -> dust strike to disable their moves. Or sometimes I’ll just chain my stuns to keep something disabled.

Even against dangerous enemies I can stay engaged for quite the time. I definitely recommened channeled vigor as a heal, because its healing potential is massive and that extra 1.5 dodges means quite a bit of maintained engagement time.

As for the competitors…

Tempest beats Daredevil against large targets, stationary targets, and enemies that must be engaged at range. As much as I like unload, the fact is that font + fireball is better. Tempest loses to Daredevil against mobile targets, or targets that you have to engage at melee range, and also in situations where sustained damage is unavoidable. The glass is real here, but I’ve found the DD more than capable of surviving.

Herald beats Daredevil in most circumstances, except that in which sustained damage is unavoidable in melee. Heralds don’t have a real “heal” as much as they have a few utility skills that grant health along with their other functions, so I’ve found that in bouts where I need sustain, the Herald starts to fall short. Otherwise, the herald does stupid good DPS by just auto attacking with sword. There is a note here: Heralds have to sacrifice a lot to deal with projectiles, but thieves sacrifice very little.

Well if you’re talking power, I’m pretty positive berserker has higher dps. If we are including condi builds thief isn’t even in the top 5. Engi and berserker blow it out the water. Also as for the healing, herald heal is top tier to the point of being broken. Swapping between Glint and shiro you can heal so often you never stop attacking Champs solo.

Thief is probably around reaper dps. Thief is higher but when enemy drops below 50 it’s much closer with reaper possibly doing more, but I think thief still wins

I have to disagree about herald healing. Swapping between Glint and Shiro has me awkwardly using the hammer to try and proc Enchanted Daggers because I have run out of health. Glints heal, while theoretically limitlesss, is really an invulnerability skill that comes with the benefit of converting damage to health. Because of this, I frequently find my health ticking down much faster than it accumulates, and stalling for time while I wait for Facet of Light to come off recharge.

Now, I don’t play warrior, and I haven’t played engi in years, so I do not have experience with how much damage they output (although Reaper is definitely behind DD in my experience. Weakening Charge does more damage than gravedigger and in half the time). Though unless I am missing my guess, if you include condi builds, Daredevils are still in the top 5, as that only adds warriors and engis (on top of eles and heralds).

Though I have watched some videos on condi berserkers, and though I can see them hitting 18k DPS for certain time periods against a golem… I’m getting up to 6.7k per hit on Weakening Charge, and 21k on vault, all just zerg running. If I calculate it right, Fist Flurry is hitting for 62k damage total (over 1.75 seconds, that would amount to 35k DPS). There’s going to be down time for initiative regen, bound, and auto attacks for proper positioning, but overall I wouldn’t throw my hands up and say that condi berserkers necessarily beat power daredevils.

RedArachnid: I do wonder if you’re really talking about solo PvE (“all just zerg running” – zerg or zerk?)
The problem thief has got since June: No boons. All other classes: Endless self stacking boons.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Azure.8670:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Right now, I’d rank Daredevil DPS as #3, behind two other classes: Herald, Tempest. And tempest is a technicality, as there are plenty of situations where Daredevil does more.

Daredevil DPS in my experience is highly variable. It depends on several things:

#1: The location of the target. Next to a ridge or against a wall is preferred.
#2: The size of the target. Bigger is better.
#3: How well paced their attacks are. An even paced moveset is best.
#4: If they have projectiles that can be reflected, and how well I can predict it.

It all comes down to how much I can cut loose with Weakening Charge. Against a near-ledge target or a cornered enemy, I can cut loose a full fury with Weakening Charge, and do just massive damage. Against large targets, too.

Against smaller targets I have to use the Bound -> Vault -> Charge -> Auto to maximize DPS, with Fist Flurry thrown in for good measure. If the target is particularly troublesome, I can tank it by standing in its face and using vault in place to avoid each attack. That tactic is… surprisingly effective against certain enemies. Against enemies with wide sweeping attacks, I’ll occasionally use dust strike -> auto -> dust strike to disable their moves. Or sometimes I’ll just chain my stuns to keep something disabled.

Even against dangerous enemies I can stay engaged for quite the time. I definitely recommened channeled vigor as a heal, because its healing potential is massive and that extra 1.5 dodges means quite a bit of maintained engagement time.

As for the competitors…

Tempest beats Daredevil against large targets, stationary targets, and enemies that must be engaged at range. As much as I like unload, the fact is that font + fireball is better. Tempest loses to Daredevil against mobile targets, or targets that you have to engage at melee range, and also in situations where sustained damage is unavoidable. The glass is real here, but I’ve found the DD more than capable of surviving.

Herald beats Daredevil in most circumstances, except that in which sustained damage is unavoidable in melee. Heralds don’t have a real “heal” as much as they have a few utility skills that grant health along with their other functions, so I’ve found that in bouts where I need sustain, the Herald starts to fall short. Otherwise, the herald does stupid good DPS by just auto attacking with sword. There is a note here: Heralds have to sacrifice a lot to deal with projectiles, but thieves sacrifice very little.

Well if you’re talking power, I’m pretty positive berserker has higher dps. If we are including condi builds thief isn’t even in the top 5. Engi and berserker blow it out the water. Also as for the healing, herald heal is top tier to the point of being broken. Swapping between Glint and shiro you can heal so often you never stop attacking Champs solo.

Thief is probably around reaper dps. Thief is higher but when enemy drops below 50 it’s much closer with reaper possibly doing more, but I think thief still wins

I have to disagree about herald healing. Swapping between Glint and Shiro has me awkwardly using the hammer to try and proc Enchanted Daggers because I have run out of health. Glints heal, while theoretically limitlesss, is really an invulnerability skill that comes with the benefit of converting damage to health. Because of this, I frequently find my health ticking down much faster than it accumulates, and stalling for time while I wait for Facet of Light to come off recharge.

Now, I don’t play warrior, and I haven’t played engi in years, so I do not have experience with how much damage they output (although Reaper is definitely behind DD in my experience. Weakening Charge does more damage than gravedigger and in half the time). Though unless I am missing my guess, if you include condi builds, Daredevils are still in the top 5, as that only adds warriors and engis (on top of eles and heralds).

Though I have watched some videos on condi berserkers, and though I can see them hitting 18k DPS for certain time periods against a golem… I’m getting up to 6.7k per hit on Weakening Charge, and 21k on vault, all just zerg running. If I calculate it right, Fist Flurry is hitting for 62k damage total (over 1.75 seconds, that would amount to 35k DPS). There’s going to be down time for initiative regen, bound, and auto attacks for proper positioning, but overall I wouldn’t throw my hands up and say that condi berserkers necessarily beat power daredevils.

You don’t need to use the hammer 4 for healing, that’s just an added benefit. Shiro heal with sword heals a lot. Plus youre forgetting shield 4 and shield 5 both heal. Also spammed grave diggers can hit as high as 34k plus

Which armor are u using? I feel so squishy…

Thanathos.2063:

Is it just me or are thieves (and daredevils) kinda … well … inferior DPS-wise?
I’m running a full-ascended full-zerk daredevil at the moment and well, every small mob seems to take an eternity to die.
When I’m comparing it to my other classes… the light ones have heavy AoE’s, the heavy ones have high DPS and can just facetank stuff most of the time…
But my thief (dual-wielding daggers at the moment, plus staff or pistols situation wise) has neither good AoE’s nor permanent adds. Maybe I haven’t played enough with him to know useful damage rotations, combos etc but it feels just really slow at the moment and I’m really not looking forward to the Mordremoth story fight….

Dagger is the obvious choice in PvP for it’s burst, but in PvE solo sword/dagger is the better choice in my experience. This is because you can deal sustained damage over the course of the fight, whereas with dagger you are limited to the stealth-flank-backstab-revealed cycle and all the associated cooldowns.

Sword auto-attack also cleaves up to three enemies, making it more useful against mobs.

Sword/pistol might be a good PvE solo dps option as well, but someone else will have to comment on that because I never really played s/p.

My two cents. Keep experimenting and see what works for you.

Jana.6831:

RedArachnid: I do wonder if you’re really talking about solo PvE (“all just zerg running” – zerg or zerk?)
The problem thief has got since June: No boons. All other classes: Endless self stacking boons.

I suppose it is a moot question. One of the things I’ve noticed is that, while playing on HoT, very rarely am I by myself. That said, thieves are very good at stacking the best boon for themselves: Fury. Well, power thieves anyway. Condi thieves are pretty good at self stacking might and vulnerability.

The only time I end up alone is when I’m doing things like running flax farms. Doing that, I still find thief DPS to be more than sufficient. I come out swinging with 12k weakening charges and 13k vaults. Most enemies don’t live past a single fist flurry, let alone a vault-vault-bound-weakening charge combo. I can even kill enemies with impact strike.

Maybe vanilla thieves have a problem, as their best option against a group of enemies is to use black powder and then auto or pistol whip. But Daredevil Staff rips apart groups of enemies. The DD is a class that does more damage through dodging than others do through their auto attack, and so they maintain damage much more easily. Also, if you are talking about regular enemies, condition ramp up time becomes a big issue. After 2.5 seconds I’ve already killed multiple enemies.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I suppose it is a moot question.

Not really since the topic of this thread is solo PvE (not only HoT).
The point isn’t how well you can kill mobs in a group full of boons, the question is if you’re equal to other classes alone.
And well, fury every 20 seconds isn’t that great.

Jana.6831:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I suppose it is a moot question.

Not really since the topic of this thread is solo PvE (not only HoT).
The point isn’t how well you can kill mobs in a group full of boons, the question is if you’re equal to other classes alone.
And well, fury every 20 seconds isn’t that great.

Run Critical Strikes. Unrelenting Strikes + No Quarter means permanent fury starting with the second attack against the first enemy.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Jana.6831:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I suppose it is a moot question.

Not really since the topic of this thread is solo PvE (not only HoT).
The point isn’t how well you can kill mobs in a group full of boons, the question is if you’re equal to other classes alone.
And well, fury every 20 seconds isn’t that great.

Run Critical Strikes. Unrelenting Strikes + No Quarter means permanent fury starting with the second attack against the first enemy.

Technically, I think that it might be the second hit, rather than attack; if you use a multi-hit attack (Unload in my case).

EDIT: Tested NQ with Unload, and the NQ buff does get triggered by subsequent hits within the same single attack. JFYI, FWIW. Didn’t test any other multi-hit skills.

Exylia.3814:

Which armor are u using? I feel so squishy…

This is why I’m using 3 pieces of marauder, 2 pieces of zealot (sacrificing improved bonus damage from ferocity for the more reliable healing power), and a crusader helmet (to recoup some lost ferocity from the zealot while also gaining a little more healing power) and they’re all ascended with an exotic marauder staff (putting Bo on hold for now) and the legendary shortbow with zealot stats (though I should consider viper in some situations due to its nice poison combo field and bleed stacking). I take the daredevil elite skill despite its weaknesses (can be knocked back wasting damage potential) due to its short cooldown, interrupt, and excellent single target damage.

An alternative primary weaponset I use is berserker sword/celestial dagger (both ascended) for the shadowstep, daze, and boon stripping.

I take dash as my final dodge because it cleanses cripple, an effect that makes it easier for red names to catch up to you, shadow arts, and critical strikes.

I found berserker thief to be one of the more powerful but more squishy classes while running through HoT.

If you’re going to run staff, which in all honesty as a DD you should be, then I would suggest running P/P on alternate. Reason being sometimes you need a range option, and P/P provides rangle single target damage with unload, some stealth and interupt / breakbar support.

Staff cearly has your cleave AoE damage well and truly covered, but as we die in 2-3 hits, trying to melee a whole group of mobs is risky. You can get away with it by well timed Vaults and Bounds for the evade frames (and I DO mean well timed), weakening charge is high damage but with no evades and a small wind up animation you will likely take a hit.

Condi DD with Signet of Malice just melts everything in PvE (using asc Viper atm) w/o losing any HP. You can take on an army of thousands of Chak, Snipers, everything, pretty easilly~

Unfortunately our range condi dmg is pretty awful so some boss fights can be annoying; which adds more frustration to lack of 1200 range.

Doggie.3184:

Condi DD with Signet of Malice just melts everything in PvE (using asc Viper atm) w/o losing any HP. You can take on an army of thousands of Chak, Snipers, everything, pretty easilly~

Unfortunately our range condi dmg is pretty awful so some boss fights can be annoying; which adds more frustration to lack of 1200 range.

Wouldn’t SB with 2 and 4 solve range issues?

What runes/sigils/build/trinkets are you running with it? I’ve used Carrion gear in the past (years ago) and I can’t seem to find a good Daredevil condi-build.