Guild Wars 2

this skill used to have a short aftercast. now … its long. this makes it unspammable and unusable. i used to use this in bleed builds butnot anymore.

1/4 s evade time
1s animation time
1.25 sec total time
80% vulnerable to dmg
25% invulnerable to direct dmg

no thank you.

I don’t think it needs to be “converted” from a condition attack to a direct damage attack – I think it needs to be balanced a little more in favor of it’s white damage so that it is a true “hybrid” attack.

And the animation, evade, and cast time should be fixed so it’s also better defense.

ipan.4356:

I don’t think it needs to be “converted” from a condition attack to a direct damage attack – I think it needs to be balanced a little more in favor of it’s white damage so that it is a true “hybrid” attack.

And the animation, evade, and cast time should be fixed so it’s also better defense.

1.25seconds of total skill time.
.25seconds of total evade time.

TOTAL liability to use. never use this in pvp.

good to dodge other thieves if youre out of endurance

d/d skill 3 is for survival for any builds, plus a very nice AoE bleed stacking skill for condition thiefs. It’s good as it is.

SaltyDave.7346:

d/d skill 3 is for survival for any builds, plus a very nice AoE bleed stacking skill for condition thiefs. It’s good as it is.

No it’s not.

SaltyDave.7346:

d/d skill 3 is for survival for any builds, plus a very nice AoE bleed stacking skill for condition thiefs. It’s good as it is.

you stand there spamming 3 3 3 3 ….ill spam 1 1 1 1 and you lose every every every every every time.

3 is a HORRIBLE skill. PVE its ok for tagging etc….. but not more than once.

1.25 seconds of skill time and 80% of it leaves you open for dmg. the evade is ALMOST useless.

Travlane.5948:

you stand there spamming 3 3 3 3 ….ill spam 1 1 1 1 and you lose every every every every every time.

Uh, if a D/D, full zerker thief spams 1 against a D/D, full zerker thief spamming 3, the thief spamming 1 is going to get rolled.

Badly.

It’s not even close.

Sure, Death Blossom has a major problem – it’s designed as an evasive skill that doesn’t evade – but that’s no reason to pull out the hyperbole. It deals a lot of damage. Believe it or not, bleeds still deal damage even when you’re in Berserker gear, and when you get a ton of them it adds up to actually meaningful numbers.

I wish Death Blossom was more like the GW1 Death Blossom. A high damage AOE attack. o.O My Assassin used it all the time~ entirely unrelated to conditions back then.

They should just drop the bleed from it all together and up the damage. I never see anyone use D/D condition builds anymore anyways, and even if they do it’s still a stupid setup since it’s generally the only weapon skill used out of 5.

Eh…I don’t want anything happening that turns it from AE to single target. It functions as a heal for me as an AE. – even single target it heals a fair bit, but generally much better in AE.

When I play d/d on my thief, it’s always in PvE so I rarely bother with death blossom. The problem I’ve been having is that it applies bleeding and outside of my necro, I rarely bother with bleeding on any other class.

As Doggie said it would be a very helpful move if death blossom was made into a high damage melee aoe skill instead of applying bleeding. It doesn’t help that the aftercast is so ridiculously long and the long animation time has such a short evasion time.

Ensign.2189:

Travlane.5948:

you stand there spamming 3 3 3 3 ….ill spam 1 1 1 1 and you lose every every every every every time.

Uh, if a D/D, full zerker thief spams 1 against a D/D, full zerker thief spamming 3, the thief spamming 1 is going to get rolled.

Badly.

It’s not even close.

Sure, Death Blossom has a major problem – it’s designed as an evasive skill that doesn’t evade – but that’s no reason to pull out the hyperbole. It deals a lot of damage. Believe it or not, bleeds still deal damage even when you’re in Berserker gear, and when you get a ton of them it adds up to actually meaningful numbers.

wanna test with me? lets go in game msg me.

Death Blossom is great as it is.

If they would remove the semi-self root and increase the evade frames at the beginning to start exactly when the skill starts I’d probably use it a lot more. It would just be a useful utility skill in the middle of a power build.

As it is Death Blossom is like a mini Whirlwind Attack on warrior greatsword. Think it would be cooler if it were a bit more like Whirlwind.

Arkitech.9158:

As it is Death Blossom is like a mini Whirlwind Attack on warrior greatsword. Think it would be cooler if it were a bit more like Whirlwind.

That would be so much more cool if we ducked and slid while whirling (FS style) and got to choose the direction. Make it a 200-300 range slide or something. Smooth it up like the warrior one as well (no stutter steps/self root).

Yeah I like the idea of keeping the animation and evade time but speeding it up and increasing the range. Maybe make it a 1/4 sec evade with a 1/4 sec cast time. As it is now it’s a 1/2 sec cast with 1/4 sec evade with an after cast. Think it would really neat if it were fast like Whirlwind and maybe add a bit more power damage. Really the utility is what it’s for though so damage would just be icing on the cake. But yeah, faster cast, longer range. Being able to aim it would be neat.

not gonna use it til evade is atleast 1/2 sec

Travlane.5948:

not gonna use it til evade is atleast 1/2 sec

Makes sense as flanking strike is 1/2 sec, but meh. Different skill, different mechanic, and Death Blossom doesn’t have a second part like flanking does. It’s obvious that with the way Thief works with initiative there has to be down time on the evade.

Arkitech.9158:

The Lost Witch.7601:

A few things that came to mind when I read through this thread:

• Death Blossom is capable of stacking over 20 bleeds on it’s own. That is enough incentive for people to play D/D as a condition weapon. It may not be the strongest way to play this weapon, it is certainly possible. (Personally I like to stack 20 bleeds on monsters in PvE and then run away to heal up while my bleeds do all the work from there)

• Plenty of players like this skill and love their condi-thief. If the skill gets changed to do something else entirely… many of these thieves will not only lose their pet build, but also have outrageously expensive condition gear that is now much less useful or even useless. (Ascended trinkets/daggers even)

• Does the D/D set need anything else in particular? Is the weaponset currently not viable?

Basically: what is the cost of changing this skill to have better synergy with the power approach?

The point is it feels wrong to make a build all around a single move. I understand people have builds that work this way, but hardly any Thief that takes themselves seriously actually runs it. Maybe for fun, maybe for lol’s, but realistically it just makes for a miss matched weapon set. Ask any Thief and D/P is more viable in every manner. D/D does more damage and takes less ini but has much less utility and is much harder to use. I feel like the best part about D/D is the high risk high reward. Death Blossom offers no reward at the cost of a lot of ini. I don’t mind keeping Death Blossom’s current mechanic, it just needs some work either way. Just trying to get some attention on it.

It’s funny you say that and all the Sword/x builds are defined around their primary usage of a single skill, with the other skills as utilities to make it work.

I’ve been running a Deathblossom build since a few months after launch (admittedly for fun, because I wanted low stealth use build and ended up preferring conditions over the power of S/D and S/P), and here’s how I feel about the skills on it.

Skill 1: Applies poison on the third skill of the auto-attack. Also regenerates 10% of your endurance bar on hit with the second skill.

Skill 2: If there are might stacks abound, and/or the person is at 10% health or less, it’s worth using. If there’s a field, it’s worth using for an aura if you’ve already got bleed stacks on the enemy and will auto-attack afterward.

Skill 3: Main damage source, but most people don’t realize that you should pace yourself once you get 6 stacks of bleeding on someone. If you flip over behind them, you should consider just auto-attacking before the next one so you get some endurance regenerated and apply a second condition if there’s time. Also, it’s a whirl finisher that’s incredibly helpful in team fights if someone puts down a light or water field.

Skill 4: Cripple to use on those with Swiftness (like kiting bomb Engineers) so that you or your teammates can hit things easier. An extra finisher for Fire and Poison fields, especially when there are more than 1 person around.

Skill 5: For stomps.

The only thing I don’t get much use out of is Backstab.

I’ve been running the build a lot more since the Assasssin’s Reward buff in solo queue and find that the poison uptime (along with poison on Steal trait) helps me against Hambow if I dodge their Earthshaker and the Deathblossom (along with Signet of Malice) helps me melt down Minion Master builds.

Proven.2854:

I’ve been running a Deathblossom build since a few months after launch (admittedly for fun, because I wanted low stealth use build and ended up preferring conditions over the power of S/D and S/P), and here’s how I feel about the skills on it.

Skill 1: Applies poison on the third skill of the auto-attack. Also regenerates 10% of your endurance bar on hit with the second skill.

Skill 2: If there are might stacks abound, and/or the person is at 10% health or less, it’s worth using. If there’s a field, it’s worth using for an aura if you’ve already got bleed stacks on the enemy and will auto-attack afterward.

Skill 3: Main damage source, but most people don’t realize that you should pace yourself once you get 6 stacks of bleeding on someone. If you flip over behind them, you should consider just auto-attacking before the next one so you get some endurance regenerated and apply a second condition if there’s time. Also, it’s a whirl finisher that’s incredibly helpful in team fights if someone puts down a light or water field.

Skill 4: Cripple to use on those with Swiftness (like kiting bomb Engineers) so that you or your teammates can hit things easier. An extra finisher for Fire and Poison fields, especially when there are more than 1 person around.

Skill 5: For stomps.

The only thing I don’t get much use out of is Backstab.

I’ve been running the build a lot more since the Assasssin’s Reward buff in solo queue and find that the poison uptime (along with poison on Steal trait) helps me against Hambow if I dodge their Earthshaker and the Deathblossom (along with Signet of Malice) helps me melt down Minion Master builds.

You’ve basically nailed down what I love about running D/D as my regen/condi thief. If you have a ton of healing power and condition damage, Death Blossom combined with Signet of Malice is just brutal, both healing you and bleeding the enemy for a ton of DoT. #2 is especially great after stealing from a Ranger, I’ve actually ended many a fight in a stalemate (usually with them running) against regen Rangers thanks to it. Also, Signet of Malice seems to proc as long as a condition or damage is done, so keep a SB as your 2nd weapon set if you want to capitalize on that (along with Caltrops and that glorious Dagger Storm). You’re also quite right on that it’s a Minionmancer’s worst nightmare. Their minions only feed our health regen in fights against them, and I’ve never lost a match against a Minionmancer.

As an extra to my earlier post, overall D/D helps power more than condition builds, but is still pretty decent for condition builds. If was going to even it out for condition builds, I’d lower the damage on Backstab by some percentage and then give it an “always crits” attribute.