Guild Wars 2

Hey there,

I haven’t visit the forums in a long time cause of a lot of negative feedback i got when i posted honest nerf suggestions for the thief (being thief main with over 4000 hours on it).

But here i am with some feedback on the changes coming with the specializations.

I will start by comparing the the choices for each slot based on different builds.

Depending on your feedback on suggestions, i might change my feedback and add a general feedback for each specialization.

Evade: For s/d and s/p evasive builds
Stealth: For d/p and p/d stealth builds
Condi: For d/d and p/d condition damage based builds

Deadly Arts
Critical Strikes
Shadow Arts
Acrobatics
Trickery

We can clearly see that the new system might limit us in the amount of total choises, but on the other hand it makes choices for each slot more meanigful by having less traits that have to compete against each other.
So let’s compare those sets of 3 traits and see how they compete.

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Serpent’s Touch
Stealing inflicts poison. (10s)
Your attacks while in the downed state apply poison. (2s)

Lotus Poison
Weaken targets when you poison them (ICD: 10s, Duration: 4s)

Exposed Weakness
Deal more damage if your target has a condition (10% damage)
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Dagger Training
Dagger damage is increased to poisoned foes (5% damage)

Mug
Deal damage and gain life when stealing.
This attack cannot critically hit enemies.
Damage: 1173
Healing: 1980

Trappers Respite
Drop a needle trap when you use a healing skill
Immobilize: 3s
Poison: 6s
Bleed x3: 10s
Vulnerability x5: 8s

Evade:
Evasive builds can go for either Mug or Trappers Respite. Both choices are viable.
While Mug increases the burst damage and sustain, Trappers Respites immobilize can be used to set up a burst.

Stealth:
Same as for the evasive builds. But for d/p with the additional choice for Dagger Training for higher pressure damage.

Condi:
Trappers Respite is without any competition clearly the best choice. Only Mug might offer some utility for more healing.

Conclusion:
These traits seem pretty balanced.
Still i’d suggest to either decrease the damage from Mug or increase the damage of Dagger Training.
Because there are no power based builds that can stay in combat for long (except for PvE) to make good use of the Dagger Training.
Dagger Training could be increased to about 7% Damage increase to better compete against Mug
I know that is a odd number but 10% would be way to strong.
Maybe it would be possible to give a damage increase based on the number of poison stacks on the enemy.
Reducing the damage of Mug by 10% – 20% would be the easier way.
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Resourceful Trapper
Stealing reduces the cooldown of currently recharging traps (10s)

Panic Strike
Striking a foe that is below the health threashold immobilizes them.
ICD: 20s, Duration: 2s)

Revealed Training
Gain extra power while you are revealed (200 power)

Evade:
Evasive builds don’t use traps nor do they use stealth.
That leaves only Panic Strike as a good option for evasive builds.

Stealth:
While Panic Strike always seems to be a good option, with a stealth build we can also use Revealed Training to increase the damage.

Condi:
Resourceful Trapper with runes of the trapper would help trap builds to get more access to stealth.

Conclusion:
The balance between Panic Strike and Revealed Training looks fin for stealth using builds.
For Resourceful Trapper the thief could use another condition based trap to really shine. A trait like that feels wasted if used for only 1 utility skill. Though just adding conditions to other traps without nerfing the rest of it would make it to strong.
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Potent Poison
Increased Poison duration (33%)
Poison deals increased damage (50%)

Improvisation
You can use stolen items twice.
Recharges one random skill category on steal.

Executioner
Deal extra damage when your target is below the health threshold. (Damage: 20%, Threshold: 50%)

Evade:
Evasive builds can chose between Improvisation and Executioner.
Both are solid choices and compete well.

Stealth:
Same as for evasive builds. Improvisation and Executioner are good.

Condi:
Potent Poison might be the first choice for condition builds.
But Improvisation can also have its use in those builds.

Conclusion:
Executioner is a very strong damage trait.
But i can’t say much about Potent Poison and Improvisation since i don’t know about the changes for Conditions and stolen items.

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Keen Observer
Critical-hit chance is increased while your health is above the threshold.
(crit chance: 5%, Treshold: 90%)

Unrelenting Strikes
Critical hit damage is increased againsed foes whose health is below the threshold.
(Treshold: 33%)

First Strikes
Critical damage is increased while your curren initiative is over the threshold.
(Damage: 10%, Threshold: 6)
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Side Strike
Gain bonus critical-hit chance when hitting a foe from behind or the side (crit chance: 7%)

Signets of Power
Gain might when activating a signet. (Stacks: 5, Duration: 10s)
Signet recharge is reduced.

Combo Critical Chance
Dual wield skills have increased critical-hit chance. (crit chance: 5%)

Evade:
While Signets of Power can be used with the infiltrators, the crit chance improving traits are also worth taking.

Stealth:
Stealth builds rarely use the dual wield skill and have to choose between Signets of Power and Side Strike.

Condi:
Condition based builds don’t have anything here they really want. Unless conditions become able to crit.

Conclusion:
For me these traits don’t feel very important.
An small increase of crit chance is nothing i’d notice much as a player.
And signet based builds just miss some utility to work well.
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Sundering Strikes
Critical hits have a chance to cause vulnerability. (Chance: 50%, Duration: 6s)

Practiced Tolerance
Gain vitality based on your precision. (10% of prec)

Ankle Shots
Critical hits with pistols have a chance to cripple foes. (Chance: 60%, Durataion: 3s, ICD: 10s)
Pistol strikes deal increased damage to crippled foes. (Damage: 10%)

Evade:
With evasion based builds you don’t have to retreat as often.
This makes it easier to build up the vulnerability stacks from Sundering Strikes

Stealth:
Stealth base builds often have only short attack phases and can’t make much use of Sundering Strikes.
Only alternative seems to be Practiced Tolerance since Ankle Shots is for pistols only.

Condition:
Condition builds don’t go for crit chance. Practiced Tolerance would at least give some vit for the base precesion.

Conclusion:
Like for the adept slot, i don’t see any really interesting traits here.
Ankle Shot might become interesting with a higher cripple duration.
Practiced Tolerance would need at least an increase from 10% to 15%.
Sundering Strikes seems to be the only decent trait at the moment.
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Riccochet
Pistol shots have a chance to bounce to an additional target. (Chance: 50%, Max bounces: 3)
Pistol range is increased. (Range increase: 150)

Hidden Killer
Gain bonus critical hit chance while in stealth. (Crit chance: 100%)

Invigoration Precision
You are healed for a percentage of outgoing critical hit damage (Heal: 15%)

Evade:
Evasive builds don’t use pistols or stealth. So Invigoration Precision is the way to go.

Stealth:
Hidden Killer will allow stealth builds to use valkyrie stats for more defence.

Condi:
So far there was nothing great for condition builds in this line.
This does not change for the grandmaster trait.

Conclusion:
Hidden Killer and Invigoration Precision both have their use.
Riccochet is lackluster since pistols are rarely used for having an auto attack based on bleed.
Changing the increased range from 150 to 300 and the chance to bounce from 50% to 60% would make pistols more attractive.

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Last Refuge
Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches a certain threshold. (Threshold: 25%)

Meld with Shadows
Stealth skills last longer. (Increased Duration: 1s)

Resilience of Shadows
Stealth effects that you apply reduce incoming attack damage. (Damage Reduction: 50%)
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Merciful Ambush
Stealth yourself and your target when reviving an ally. (Duration: 3s)
You revive allies faster. (Revive Speed: 10%)

Concealed Defeat
Create a smoke Screen when downed.
Deception abilities recharge faster. (Recharge Reduced: 20%)

Shadow’s Embrace
Remove conditions periodically while in stealth. (Condis Removed: 1, Interval: 3s)

Evade:
s/d builds can use Shadow’s Embrace with the Cloak and Dagger skill. (dagger #5)

Stealth:
Stealth builds want Shadow’s Embrace over all for the condition removal.

Condi:
Also condi builds want the great removal of Shadow’s Embrace.

Conclusion:
Shadow’s Embrace is to essential to remove conditions.
Merciful Ambush would need a duration of at least 6 seconds to compete.
Concealed Defeat would need to stealth the user for 3 seconds and make a random 600 range shadowstep to compete.
That’s how strong Shadow’s Embrace is in my opinion.
To get it more into line, Shadow’s Embrace should remove 3 conditions upon entering stealth with a 10 internal cooldown.
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Shadow Protector
When you grant stealth to an ally, they gain regeneration. (Duration: 10s)
This effect does not trigger if your ally already has regeneration.

Descent of Shadows
Release a blinding powder when you steal or take falling damage. (Stealth: 4s)
You take less damage from falling. (Damage Reduction: 50%)

Leeching Venoms
Gain might when activating a venom.
Siphon life from your foe when triggering a venom. (Damage: 393, Heal: 325)

Evade:
Using swords, evasive builds could utilize the stealth from Descent of Shadows since they don’t have many other ways to stealth.

Stealth:
For stealth builds, the Shadow Protector trait is a great way to increase the survivability.

Condi:
Condition builds would go for either Shadow Protector or Descent of Shadows.
But pistol builds would take Shadow Protector since going into stealth with steal while a bullet is mid air, will reveal the thief.

Conclusion:
Descent of Shadows stealth on steal still has the problem with getting revealed when a projectile attack is still on its way when going into stealth.
Leeching Venoms would be more interesting if it would also leech endurance.
Shadow Protector seems to be a solid trait.
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Cloaked in Shadow
Gaining stealth blinds nearby foes. (Duration: 5s)

Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Regenerate health and initiative while in stealth. (Heal: 293 per sec, Initiative: 1 every 3 sec)

Venomous Aura
When you use a venom skill, you apply the effects to all nearby allies as well. (radius: 360)
Venom recharges are reduced. (Recharge Reduction: 20%)

Evade:
Evasive builds dont have much use for any of those traits.

Stealth:
Stealth builds already use Shadow’s Rejuvenation a lot since it’s a powerful tool to stay alive.
The initiative regeneration is now a nice bonus and makes it even stronger.

Condi:
Condition builds often have great access to stealth as well. So Shadow’s Rejuvenation might be the best choice for them as well.

Conclusion:
Shadow’s Rejuvenation still looks way stronger compared to the other grandmaster traits.
Venomous Aura could give 1 initiative for each person you share your venom with. (Internal cooldown 15s)
Cloaked in Shadow does not look grandmaster worthy the way it is. Make it increase stealth by 1 more second or reduce the revealed debuff by 1 second.

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Expeditious Dodger
Gain swiftness upon dodging. (Duration: 2s)

Feline Grace
Gain vigor upon succesfully evading an attack. (Duration: 2s)

Endless Stamina
The effects of vigor on you are enhanced (Effectiveness Increased: 20%)
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Fleet Shadow
Move faster while in stealth. (Movement Speed Increase: 50%)

Vigorous Revovery
Gain vigor when using a healing skill. (Duration: 5s)

Pain Response
Gain regeneration and remove damaging condition when struck while below the health threshold (Regen Duration: 10s, Health Threshold: 75%)

Evade:
Evasive builds want to get as much vigor as possible.
Vigorous Revovery helps a lot to keep up the Vigor.

Stealth:
Stealth builds would either go for Pain Response for more heal and condition removal
or Fleet Shadow to be more mobile in combat.

Condi:
Condition based builds want to be more tanky to outlast the enemy. Pain Response is the best option.

Conclusion:
Nothing to crazy here. While the traits rarely compete, all are at least a somewhat viable option.
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Guarded Initiation
Gain resistance when striking an enemy while your health is full. (Duration: 5s, ICD: 10s)

Swindler’s Equilibrium
Succesfully evading an attack while wielding a sword recharges steal by a static amount. (Recharge Time Reduction: 1s, ICD: 1s)

Hard to catch
Break stun and refill endurance when you are disabled. (ICD: 30s)

Evade:
Swindler’s Equilibrium is made specifically for evasion builds and a way better option then the other 2.

Stealth:
Hard to catch is the only one a stealth build can really utilize here.

Condi:
Hard to catch is the only one a condi build can really utilize here.

Conclusion:
These trait don’t really compete. The best choice just depends on the build.
Guarded Initiation looks pretty weak. I’d suggest to reduce the resistance duration to 3s, add 3s stability and increase the ICD to 30 seconds.
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Assassin’s Reward
Heal yourself whenever you use a skill that uses initiative. (Heal per initiative point: 69)

Quick Pockets
Gain initiative on swapping weapons. (Initiatve Gain: 3)

Don’t Stop
Periodically evade projectile attacks while under the effects of swiftness. (ICD: 5s)

Evade:
Evasive builds often used a master tier trait for this slot because the grandmaster were not good enough.
Now i would take Don’t Stop for more evasion to trigger Swindler’s Equilibrium.

Stealth:
Without the bonus of Swindler’s Equilibrium, stealth builds would be better off taking Assassin’s Reward

Condi:
Same as stealth builds: Assassin’s Reward would be the best option

Conclusion:
Acrobatic grandmaster traits still look very uninteresting.
Quick Pockets could be changed to reduce the weapon swap recharge by 5 seconds and reduce the initiative gain to 1.

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Kleptomaniac
Stealing gives you initiative. (Initiative Gain: 2)

Preparedness
Increase maximum initiative by 3.

Lead Attacks
Increase damage per initiative. (Damage increase per initiative: 1%)
Steal recharges faster.
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Uncatchable
Leave behind Caltrops when you dodge.

Flanking Strikes
Gain haste when attacking a foe from behind or the side. (Duration: 6s, ICD: 60s)

Thrill of Crime
When you Steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds)

Evade:
Thril of Crime best option. Others can’t compete.

Stealth:
Thril of Crime best option. Others can’t compete.

Condi:
Uncatchable is a good trait to increase the damage of condition builds.

Conclusion:
Flanking Strikes could be a better option with ICD: 30s and duration reduced to 4 seconds.
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Bountyful Theft
Stealing grants you and all nearby allies vigor. (Duration: 10s)
You rip boons from your target and grant them to nearby allies. (Boons stolen: 2)

Trickster
Reduces recharge on tricks. (Recharge Reduced: 20%)
Tricks remove conditions. (Conditions Removed: 1)

Preassure Striking
Enemies you interrupt are inflicted with torment. (Stacks: 3, Duration: 8s)

Evade:
Bountyful Theft hast no competition for this slot.

Stealth:
Bountyful Theft hast no competition for this slot.

Condition:
Preassure Striking sounds promising.
But without an option to remove stability on target, Bountyful Theft is the better choice.

Conclusion:
Bountyful Theft feels grandmaster worthy in the current state.
More interesting builds would be possible with Bountyful Theft and Preassure Striking in different slots.
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Hastened Replenishment
You receive initiative when using a heal skill.

Sleight of Hand
Stealing also dazes the target. (Daze Duration: 1s)
Reduces the recharge of steal. (Recharge Reduce: 20%)

Bewildering Ambush
Stealing also applies confusion. (Stacks: 5, Duration: 5s)

Evade:
Sleight of Hand allows us to use steal more often to trigger all the steal related traits.

Stealth:
Same as for evasive builds: Sleight of Hand is a great trait.

Condition:
Bewildering Ambush is a good way to mix in another type of condition.
Although Sleight of Hand with runes of perplexity would do the same.

Conclusion:
Sleight of Hand is one of the best traits the thief has.
Hastened Replenishment could use some adjustments to compete better.

reserverd just in case

One of the biggest choice a glass cannon thief had to make was between executioner and hidden killer. Being able to run both of them makes me grin, but I still wonder if that would be a bit imbalanced.

Yeah maybe making Hastened Replenishment give initiative whenever you are healed. Obviously with a CD and some balance. It doesnt need to be a huge amount. It would synergize well with Assassin’s Reward.

Zero.8603:

One of the biggest choice a glass cannon thief had to make was between executioner and hidden killer. Being able to run both of them makes me grin, but I still wonder if that would be a bit imbalanced.

I dont think so with all the changes that other classes are getting as well. And Anet has held to the idea that thief will be fairly weak to condi. With the small amount of condi mitigation that is currently available they are making you choose either that or evasion. (At least in the Acro line they are.)

Flanking Strikes
Gain haste when attacking a foe from behind or the side. (Duration: 6s, ICD: 60s)

this can bring s/p thiefs back
also with 3 specs youcan go deadly/crit/trikery for insane burst 1shotting enemy per minute. i think this trait is insane strong and can change outcome of whole fight. its like u see pew pew ranger on high ground u steal to him with invis 100% chance to crit on backstab+auto panic/executioner and get quickness that makes ur dagger hit so fast u melt him before he clicks signet of stone…

I disagree that other skills can not compete with thrill of the crime. I would not take thrill of the crime in a condition build as caltrops much more useful.

I also have a current power build where I have no need of thrill of the crime and take long reach instead. If long reach gone I would take Uncatchable as well. (this a high boon uptime build wherein I get plenty of swiftness/might /fury off runeset/

>>Dagger Training could be increased to about 7% Damage increase to better compete against Mug

I am not certain but i think the tooltip on dagger training wrong from what I recall of the presentation/. the 5 percent extra damage has been added to dagger baseline.

Dagger training will give a chance to inflict poison on use.

To your point on traps suggesting there no useful ones. I would disagree. Needle trap is a very good trap and can work in both power builds and in condition builds. This trap on its own will give 5 stacks of vulnerabilty (5 percent more damage , poison which inhibits heals and is likely changing in format to intensity per strike rather then more time , immobilizes for 3 1/4 seconds base and inflicts bleeding. (3 stacks which in a condi build is 430 more damage per second typically). If the target not already poisoned needle trap will also weaken the enemy. Thats 5 conditions.

Now if I can drop the recharge to a 20 second cycle…

How is panic strike that superior? Panic strike is on a 20 second cycle as well and only works when an opponent under 50 percent health. Further its immobilize is shorter then that of needle trap. 4 conditions as opposed to one every 20 seconds no matter the health of the enemy? Sounds good to me> The only real advantage of Panic strike is it not taking a utility slot.

Now add to that.

The skill works on all traps one currently has recharging not just needle trap. Trapper builds ARE used and tend to use two traps. This clearly a superior choice for those builds.

I grow more and more fond of Shadow trap. This currently on a 45 second cool down. it a 10000 unit port and while it rare you ever port that far it is ALSO a stunbreaker. It adds 10 stacks of might and stealths you for 5 seconds base. It can also add regen if used early and will add fury when used when triggered.

Now my current build I get 18 seconds of 10 stacks of might off this. I also use it as a stunbreak and traited to cleanse two conditions when it triggers.

Lower that Cooldown to 35 seconds? I am all for it.

>>Guarded Initiation looks pretty weak. I’d suggest to add 5 seconds of stability and increase the ICD to 30 seconds.

This is too early to call IMHO and i would prefer it remain resistance over stability.

I think specifically of a p/p build here but it could apply to others as well. P/P using SOM and IP can quite easily get health up to full. If one traits for even 50 percent boon duration Resistance will become 7 seconds.

This means for 7 seconds out of ten conditions will have no effect on you. Now think on that. How is a P/d thief or a Condimancer going to do damage to you if his conditions only tick 3 of ten seconds?

Now it remains to be seen whether one can keep health at 100 percent but I think you underestimate the power of this skill.

Good posts and summations though. Just giving my own perspective.

FLAGGING FOR READING TOMORROW.

babazhook.6805:

>>Guarded Initiation looks pretty weak. I’d suggest to add 5 seconds of stability and increase the ICD to 30 seconds.

This is too early to call IMHO and i would prefer it remain resistance over stability.

I think specifically of a p/p build here but it could apply to others as well. P/P using SOM and IP can quite easily get health up to full. If one traits for even 50 percent boon duration Resistance will become 7 seconds.

That’s a good point.
But i think after reading your input, ADDING 5 seconds stability would be to strong.
So i think 3 seconds resistance and 3 seconds stability with 30s ICD would be better.

babazhook.6805:

To your point on traps suggesting there no useful ones. I would disagree. Needle trap is a very good trap and can work in both power builds and in condition builds. This trap on its own will give 5 stacks of vulnerabilty (5 percent more damage , poison which inhibits heals and is likely changing in format to intensity per strike rather then more time , immobilizes for 3 1/4 seconds base and inflicts bleeding. (3 stacks which in a condi build is 430 more damage per second typically).

Thx for your feedback.

Looking at it again and taking rune of the trapper into account, it really isnt as bad as i first thought.

crouze.3078:

babazhook.6805:

To your point on traps suggesting there no useful ones. I would disagree. Needle trap is a very good trap and can work in both power builds and in condition builds. This trap on its own will give 5 stacks of vulnerabilty (5 percent more damage , poison which inhibits heals and is likely changing in format to intensity per strike rather then more time , immobilizes for 3 1/4 seconds base and inflicts bleeding. (3 stacks which in a condi build is 430 more damage per second typically).

Thx for your feedback.

Looking at it again and taking rune of the trapper into account, it really isnt as bad as i first thought.

Do remember that while this rune has great synergy with traps, those traps can be used in battle like a regular attack while using any other rune. As example speaking of the trap alone as it exists now. One tactic I like to do is drop the trap directly on a foe stealth and attack.

There are people that seem to think the trap has to be set up beforehand with the hopes someone stands in it.

Now I envision d/d becoming much more capable in a condition build as well while relying on poisons from the AA and bleeds from DB. I really think this trait will add to those builds as well.

I am pretty certain this will be my go to trait in that line as that 10 second less cooldown is huge when comparing it to panic strike.