Guild Wars 2

Hi guys, i need some help! (sorry if my english is not perfect :P )

I play thief only in spvp and solo arena. Im currently rank 15 using d/d – sb or d/p -sb (i want to play with a dagger in main hand, sword or pistols doesn’t fit my idea of thief)

my talents are 10/30/0/0/30 with mug and executioner, lyssa runes and basilisk venom (full berserker amulet)

My problem is that i feel im not able to manage properly the class (the spells rotations) in particular at the beginning of a match

I haven’t found any exaustive guide on the web explaining how to play a thief, and how to play vs all the classes (the only one is 1 year old, old hearthseeker etc)

so thats my questions:

1) how do you usually start a match? as d/d i usually steal and precast c/d for a quick backstab, but as d/p thats dont work and i have to black-powder/hs to stealth giving my opponent enought time to prevent this strategy. should i use shadow shot to engage, than black powder to mitigate some damage and hs?

2) when do you use basilisk venom? at the beginning of a fight? or in the middle?

3) how do u deal with big aoe dmg? 90% of my deaths are caused by random aoe dmg that 100-0 me in 3 seconds…should i always use sb and switch to dagger only in 1v1?

4) Does a complete guide on dagger thief exist? :P

thank you very much <3

Hello Shakya,

1) The typical way a thief backstabs with d/p is:

Blackpowder => heartseeker + Steal => backstab.

You are correct that this is highly predictable and the good players will dodge when you try to steal to them. If you don’t land your steal, that’s bad news bears. This makes this combo really only good when the opponent is busy with someone else and doesn’t know you’re around – gank them, basically. Instead, consider:

Blackpowder => Heartseeker => Backstab + Steal

Basically you wait in stealth for a bit, then strike with Backstab + Steal at the same time when the time is right. It does less damage, but it’s more unpredictable.

There is also a long range version:

Blackpowder => Heartseeker + Infiltrator’s Signet + Steal => Backstab

Use this ONLY if you need to get to a node very quickly. Activate infiltrators a hair second earlier than steal to pull this off. Keep in mind if you blow this combo, then you’re out on 2 ports which is a huge disadvantage.

There is also:

(While in stealth) Shadow Shot + Backstab

You can trigger a backstab after the pistol shot of shadowshot for a built in port backstab. The trick (at least for me) is to watch for the muzzle flash of the shot before hitting backstab like mad. Once you got it down once, you got it for life. Don’t use this setup too often though. The blind reveals you to the enemy (in a manner of speaking) and they will often dodge after getting blinded – screwing up your backstab. The better players will dodge, about face and whail into you knowing that you’ll get a face stab – which is also bad new bears for you; your backstabs gotta land on the back. Only use this in dire situations when you absolutely HAVE to get a backstab off. It’s great to use on fleeing opponents.

Keep in mind, in order for steal to go off without a hitch, you need to have a direct visible line of sight to the target. If not, you will steal to them, but you won’t “land” your steal. This is why Infiltrator Signet is so valuable: it doesn’t have that feature. You can just insta port to someone whether you have visible line of sight on them or not.

2) Almost always, you want to activate your bassi while in stealth. In fact, anything with a long cast time you almost always want to activate while in stealth. This will not reveal the bassi to the opponent, and allows you to land a bassi hit on your backstab. Bassi basically allows you to get a free hit in onto your opponent – its very powerful, but can be stopped via stunbreaker. Another option is to put it on while approaching a node with another teammate fighting some dude. The dude doesn’t know you’re there so you’re free to activate it out in the open.

3) Don’t walk into AoE damage. Realize that the teef is very squishy and almost a little amount of pressure onto the teef requires them to peel away for a bit. Instead, use your shortbow to the best of your ability. That being said, learn all of the porting spots on all of the map – they are invaluable. If you can’t handle something, don’t be afraid to leave and try and help out at other areas. One of the strongest talents a thief has is to be able to easily peel away from fights. Use it if crap hits the proverbial fan.

4) Not really.

PS: Oh and one more thing, learn how to dodge roll in your shadow refuge – it saves lives. You can also disabling shot the ground if you’re out of initiative. If you weapon swapped to your d/p and you have no energy and your swap is on cooldown, you better hope someone doesn’t knock you out of your shadow refuge. Also, don’t be afraid to spread poison via shortbow 4 when in stealth, it won’t reveal you and it will put pressure on those who are in the area. At the very least, it will put them in combat.

Black Powder + Steal/Signet/Shadowstep → Heartseeker → Backstab

This is a good alternative opening combo to the ones listed above. It puts you in Melee range, your target in a blind field, and the HS grants stealth at Melee so you can line up a Backstab.

You can precast Basilisk Venom for this combo to either guarantee the opening Backstab or force a stun break. Basi Venom will proc off the projectile from Black Powder.

Good point John. Forgot that one. It’s good to make people panic and hopefully blow a few cooldowns.

Hey Shakya,

If you choose to go with D/D, consider 30 in Shadow Arts. The biggest reason for this is to get the talent that blinds on stealth. Blind are very effective at saving yourself as well as your allies and they are also important for pulling off stomps against enemies since they can’t interrupt your stomp if they are blinded. However, if you prefer D/P, stick with the build you have.

As for overall tips on playing thief, I would recommend checking out Coloxus’ Tips and Tricks video. I would also recommend checking out the videos that Killchained put together which explain tactics for stomping each class. One of the things that thieves do best is pulling off stomps against enemies. Because of our blinds, stealths, and teleports, we can often land a stomp when other classes would be knocked down, interrupted, or would simply miss when the enemy ports away. Here is a link to Killchained’s videos.

Don’t ever, and I do mean ever, stomp in a teamfight as a thief in spvp – this is a BIG nono. Thieves rely on their mobilty to survive. The three second “stun” when stomping is a thief killer in a team fight. Instead its more important, pop down a blackpowder and move on to pressure people trying to cleave the body or interrupt those trying to res him via banner or ranger spirit. Also, always try to apply “cleave” poison via shortbow 4 around the downed body. It will significantly increase the res time.

Also, one of the best plays you can make as a thief is when a teammate is down and an enemy is in downed state at the same time. Plant your shadow refuge to invis your ally and invis the teammate stomping the dead body. Most players will ether try and cleave your ally or their friend. Ether way, you’re in a really good position and most likely will be able to res your teammate (via stomp) and down the enemy.

Guys thank you very much for the info… <3

I think i miss something in the combo bp + steal + hs + backstab

if cast black powder and then steal the field would be far away from me as a reach my enemy with steal…

and with mug if im stealthed and cast steal i get revealed cause mug damage…

Shakya.6351:

if cast black powder and then steal the field would be far away from me as a reach my enemy with steal…

The idea is to cast them at the same time. You will pop blackpowder at the location where you teleport if you do this.

Shakya.6351:

and with mug if im stealthed and cast steal i get revealed cause mug damage…

Again, use them at the same time. I.E. press both keys at the same time. You will land your backstab and your mug and will not get revealed off of mug.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Don’t ever, and I do mean ever, stomp in a teamfight as a thief in spvp – this is a BIG nono. Thieves rely on their mobilty to survive. The three second “stun” when stomping is a thief killer in a team fight. Instead its more important, pop down a blackpowder and move on to pressure people trying to cleave the body or interrupt those trying to res him via banner or ranger spirit. Also, always try to apply “cleave” poison via shortbow 4 around the downed body. It will significantly increase the res time.

Also, one of the best plays you can make as a thief is when a teammate is down and an enemy is in downed state at the same time. Plant your shadow refuge to invis your ally and invis the teammate stomping the dead body. Most players will ether try and cleave your ally or their friend. Ether way, you’re in a really good position and most likely will be able to res your teammate (via stomp) and down the enemy.

If the downed ally is in the middle of AoE, then a stomp isn’t viable, but to never stomp in a team fight? I can’t say I agree.

Regardless, another method to consider when you need to get a key enemy down in the middle of a ton of AoE is to Shadowstep stomp. Start the stomp animation, then shadow step far away to a safe place while you continue the stomp animation, then return right as the animation completes. This is particularly effective against Guardians as well since it will put you out of range of their bubble knockback.

Dahkeus.8243:

If the downed ally is in the middle of AoE, then a stomp isn’t viable, but to never stomp in a team fight? I can’t say I agree.

Don’t EVER stomp in a teamfight, EVER. That job is relegated to teammates who have some form of stability/invulnerability. Your job as a thief when a person is downed is to make sure no one resses that person. You can do that in multiple ways: You can shortbow 4 the area and cleave with shortbow 2, you can pop a blackpowder down on the body, if there is an engie spamming nades then you harass him, if you see a warrior using banner animation then you interrupt via headshot, if you see someone ressing with stability and your steal is available then you can strip the stab and interrupt. There are SO MANY better options a thief can do when someone is downed other than stomping. Thief’s roll is to deal damage not to take damage. Do what a thief does best.

Dahkeus.8243:

Regardless, another method to consider when you need to get a key enemy down in the middle of a ton of AoE is to Shadowstep stomp.

Then you blow a critical cooldown skill on something that another class can easily do better. There are far better options other than a thief stomping in a teamfight.

Don’t get me wrong, if you just killed someone and mid stomp an ally of his comes by, shadowstep stomping is probably the best thing you can do. But in a teamfight, don’t EVER stomp.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Dahkeus.8243:

If the downed ally is in the middle of AoE, then a stomp isn’t viable, but to never stomp in a team fight? I can’t say I agree.

Don’t EVER stomp in a teamfight, EVER. That job is relegated to teammates who have some form of stability/invulnerability. Your job as a thief when a person is downed is to make sure no one resses that person. You can do that in multiple ways. you can shortbow 4 the area and cleave with shortbow 2, if there is an engie spamming nades then you harass him, if you see a warrior using banner animation then you interrupt via headshot, if you see someone ressing with stability and your steal is available then you can strip the stab and interrupt. There are SO MANY better options a thief can do when someone is downed other than stomping. Thief’s roll is to deal damage not to take damage. Do what a thief does best.

Dahkeus.8243:

Regardless, another method to consider when you need to get a key enemy down in the middle of a ton of AoE is to Shadowstep stomp.

Then you blow a critical cooldown skill on something that another class can easily do better. There are far better options other than a thief stomping in a teamfight.

It depends on your team setup and how coordinated your communication is. If you’re with your guard/war and you’re on TS together in tPvP, then yea, this is fine, but if you’re in Solo Q or you’re not in a teamfight with people that can tank like this, then no, you shouldn’t always pass up on stomping.

For cleave damage, almost anyone else on your team will do better than you will with a short bow. As long as you have your poison field down, let someone else cleave. If someone goes to rez, then yea, you can focus on kicking them, but the beauty of thieves with a trickery build is that you can interrupt while you stomp (steal).

I think what you mean to say is:

In an ideal situation where you have the right team makeup and reliable teammates and know that they can pop stability, then just blind and let your teammates stomp.

But not everyone is tPvPing all the time with a reliable group.

Dahkeus.8243:

if you’re in Solo Q or you’re not in a teamfight with people that can tank like this, then no, you shouldn’t always pass up on stomping.

Absolutely not. It is far more important to make sure you don’t get downed. I am dead serious about this: Thieves. Do. Not. Stomp.

Dahkeus.8243:

For cleave damage, almost anyone else on your team will do better than you will with a short bow. As long as you have your poison field down, let someone else cleave. If someone goes to rez, then yea, you can focus on kicking them, but the beauty of thieves with a trickery build is that you can interrupt while you stomp (steal).

First of all, you don’t use steal to interrupt someone trying to use a 2 skill on you. You use it on people trying to res that person with stab – you are not stomping. Secondly, shortbow 4 into shortbow 2 is enough to guarantee most stomps. Do engies cleave better? Sure, but that doesn’t mean that thieves are magically great at stomping. Even an engie is better at stomping than a thief is. Thieves will always do a better job if they do something other than stomping. Thieves do not stomp in a teamfight. That is not their role There are way too many things that can go wrong.

W/e dude, I’m not going to forum argue with you on this, especially since I see you getting so worked up about it. If you believe this heavily on perfect absolutes in PvP, go for it.

I mean no offense. <3

You will soon learn that the time it takes between the HS + Steal and backstab is a lifetime in PvP when using this combo:
“Blackpowder => heartseeker + Steal => backstab.”. The most important thing is always landing the BS. The full combo is used only when your absolutely sure you will land the entire thing for maximum damage.

Also, the HS portion of the combo can also cover a lot of ground if you choose to wait on the steal/stab. Think when your coming up to a point where the closest possible place you can drop powder and HS through without the enemy on point seeing your advance (around a corner, out of LoS) Often times you can come out of the HS with just enough time left on stealth to position for the BS without them even knowing you were near. This is to counter the fact that if they see you obviously running towards them and powder+HS they can position themselves (and their juicy backside) in a way where they know you wouldnt be able to reach them in time. A lot of the burst thief is mind games, because if they have time to prepare it is very easy to counter you. Keep in mind as soon as your spotted they will be calling for help, so the less time they have for that leaves precious seconds for you to secure the kill and start decapping the node.

EDIT: Also wanted to add that you should become comfortable with manually dropping target with BP+HS before you use it. Often times the best place to position yourself wont be right next to an enemy and youll need to have dropped the target so the HS takes you to where you want to be.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Dahkeus.8243:

if you’re in Solo Q or you’re not in a teamfight with people that can tank like this, then no, you shouldn’t always pass up on stomping.

Absolutely not. It is far more important to make sure you don’t get downed. I am dead serious about this: Thieves. Do. Not. Stomp.

Dahkeus.8243:

For cleave damage, almost anyone else on your team will do better than you will with a short bow. As long as you have your poison field down, let someone else cleave. If someone goes to rez, then yea, you can focus on kicking them, but the beauty of thieves with a trickery build is that you can interrupt while you stomp (steal).

First of all, you don’t use steal to interrupt someone trying to use a 2 skill on you. You use it on people trying to res that person with stab – you are not stomping. Secondly, shortbow 4 into shortbow 2 is enough to guarantee most stomps. Do engies cleave better? Sure, but that doesn’t mean that thieves are magically great at stomping. Even an engie is better at stomping than a thief is. Thieves will always do a better job if they do something other than stomping. Thieves do not stomp in a teamfight. That is not their role There are way too many things that can go wrong.

yesterday evening i tried to play without stomping…ad i have to say i greatly reduced my deaths, being more useful to my team

i stomped only in 1v1 situations…i feel that with this low hp thief stomping is very risky

btw how can necro drain like 50% of my life in 3 seconds when downed??? what the hell?

Another big problem i have is to select a target in the middle of a zerg…usually i can have 2 ppl with maybe 2/3 pets, and is really difficoult for me to click the right target if they are close…

The tab target has been fixed a bit to help with that on my keyboard i have “C” bound as closest target for when there on me and the tab targeting now targets players followed by pets/clones ect. But having a closest target bind really helped me keep targets pinned down specially against other stealth class’s where you lose target a bunch.

Shakya.6351:

btw how can necro drain like 50% of my life in 3 seconds when downed??? what the hell?

Their downed skill 3 hits like a mack truck. Especially when they are power necros.

Agree that thieves should be last option for stomps due to how squishy but also think Dahkeus has a point that sometimes the situation is such that you really need to get that stomp and nobody else is currently capable of doing it in which case Shadowstep stomp is a really good option – should be last resort though. It’s a good tool to have in your mind for those emergency situations.

Securing a clutch stomp is definitely something to learn as thieves have very good tools to do so. But I think the argument was based on lines of skilled opponents. Meaning you can pull off a lot of uncontested stomps mid team fight at lower skilled levels of play, but it will prove to be a costly habit to get into.

As soon as you start going up against stronger opponents in high end play the fight will always revolve around the downed. Meaning that as soon as someone goes down (or is even close) there will always be a teammate rushing in to counter the stomp. And when any skilled player sees a thief stomping their eyes light up because that means a free kill + rez.

Chicago Jack.5647:

…Stuff about how thieves shouldn’t stomp…

Black powder stomping is OP though…

Turps has a great guide on how to play thief effectively, it really helped me as a young thief:

Forz.1725:

Black powder stomping is OP though…

Blackpowder is great to throw onto a downed target. But stomping should be done by another person.

Lol infantry div.

Another thing Shakya,

Don’t hang out on a node. Make your kills and once everyone is downed and there is no other threats, pop a few blackpowders on the left-over downed bodies for your teammates to stomp them safely, then peace the kitten out of there. Your teammates will think your bad kitten , and your enemies will think you’re EXTREMELY annoying. Most importantly, this frees up time to move to other nodes to help out.