Guild Wars 2

Hello.

I was just wondering if someone is running a good PvE Staff Daredevil build. I currently run Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes and Daredevil trait, but some trait positions seem abit odd.

If you found a good build, could you post it?

Thanks ^^
Leafberry

I been using Tr, CS, and DD. Tr for the extra initiative and steal buffs/utility

That’s pretty much the best for DPS already.

Deadly Arts x-x-3

Critical Strikes 3-1/2-1

Daredevil 1-1-3

You can use either Sundering Strikes or Practised Tolerance since Staff gives a lot of Vulnerability and these days reaching 25 isn’t hard at all (especially in future 10-man raids). Using PT is something like a 200 boost to Ferocity which is really nice.

Full Berserker/Scholar as always.

Bound in to combat -> Weakening Charge spam + autos until endurance is about to refill to maximum -> repeat. Essentially prioritise keeping the Bounding Dodger trait active and use WC as much as possible while keeping your endurance below 100% for Staff Master. Replace WC with Vault situationally if you need the evade or enemies are concentrated in a good spot. I love using Vault in Volcanic Fractal against the Elementals that spawn at the end. Completely demolishes them even at 100.

As for the first 2 traits of DA, I’ve found myself using the 2 trap traits and having Shadow Trap on my bar while roaming around the open world. Being able to access 15-20 Might is really helpful and it also makes a nice way to access the knockdown. Mug is still a fairly nice healing + small damage boost. Revealed Training obviously gets very little use in this setup.

When in a group and you have no need for the Might from the traps, you can use Fist Flurry in the 3rd slot with the DPS signets and use that with Impact Strike/Uppercut to take down breakbars on bosses. Those 2 skills alone can almost break a boss.

How does staff dps compare to other weapons?

If I did my math right, the most recent iteration has an auto attack that is 13.8% stronger than sword auto without vulnerability, weakening charge is basically heartseeker in an AoE at any health level, and vault is a more mobile and easier-to-control weakening charge.

As far as my build goes, for legacy PVP it is Deadly Arts (Mug, Revealed Training, Executioner), Critical Strikes (Side Strike, Practiced Tolerance, no Quarter), and Daredevil (Havoc Mastery, Pulmonary Impact, Bounding Dodger). For Heart of Thorns I instead use Panic Strike, Invigorating Precision, and Escapists Absolution. Sometimes I will also swap out to Brawler’s Tenacity and Unhindered Combatant for exploration.

I love Staff in PvE, but skill #2 and #3 have so much mobility, its hard to use them efficiently in combat.. wish the movement was a bit reduced on those skills.

Are u sure staff is better dps than dagger? dagger autoatacks are 1/4 sec while staff is 1/2 sec and lower base dmg!

Yeah, I’d love to see some numbers comparing staff DPS in optimal build to D/D and S/P ones in current (old?) meta build. I’m testing staff in open world, and I won’t lie, I wouldn’t mind if it became new meta

This is my Jungle DD build. Very tanky and deals a lot of damage. Bound is also a source for DPS.

Urejt.5648:

Are u sure staff is better dps than dagger? dagger autoatacks are 1/4 sec while staff is 1/2 sec and lower base dmg!

Staff AA is horrible; dagger still has the best AA.

Alright, time to do the math… again. Wearing no equipment at all in PVP, we get the tooltip damages for these attacks. With this data, you can get your DPS in any situation simply by calculating your effective power, then multiplying tooltip damage by effective power divided by 1000.

Staff Auto attack: 215, 254, 516. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 469.
Sword Auto Attack: 284, 284, 462. Takes 2.5 seconds, so it has a DPS of 412
Dagger Auto: 198, 302, 302. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 382

So the staff auto attack is the highest. Now to compare other abilities:

Heartseeker: 710 damage at below 25% health, 1 second activation time
Weakening Charge: 822 damage, 1 second activation time. Hard to use
Vault: 879 damage, 1 second activation time

These are the base damages. There are a couple of unique aspects to each auto attack: Staff reflects projectiles and stacks vulnerability. Dagger causes 8 seconds of poison and gains endurance. Sword causes vulnerability and cripple.

Going away from tooltips, in a max might situation, that poison on dagger will do 8 ticks every 2.1 seconds damage, which comes to about 3.8 ticks per second. The poison will tick for 78.5 damage, so this is an additional 298.3 DPS. Since the staff has 87 higher tooltip damage, this would mean that, for the staff to overcome the dagger poison, you would need an effective power of about 3,429. That is… very low for effective power, actually. Most zerker thieves will have that amount with just their base power plus might, let alone factoring in additional modifiers and crits. Also, most thieves are bad at stacking might.

Overall, staff auto wins. Weakening Charge wins. Staff is the highest DPS weapon we have.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Math stuff, fun read.

I really enjoy the staff and I think it will overtake Sword/dagger as my main weapon set but I find it a bit funny that our dullest weapon with no edge is on paper our best dps weapon.

kash.9213:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Math stuff, fun read.

I really enjoy the staff and I think it will overtake Sword/dagger as my main weapon set but I find it a bit funny that our dullest weapon with no edge is on paper our best dps weapon.

Bludgeoning weapons are not exactly bad at dealing damage. It’s more or less dependent on the force/area struck. After all, Mace/hammer can do a lot of damage (Warrior does a fair amount of physical damage with it, Guardian through the symbol, Rev through it’s… mistness). And hammer has a lot of weight to it, something not exactly easy to stop.

As for staffs themselves, remember that not all staff skins in the game are just fancy sticks. Take the new skin ‘Reclaimed Staff’, which is… more or less not exactly a staff but more a double bladed pole-arm.

Another option, of course, is always the scythe style staves

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Staff Auto attack: 215, 254, 516. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 469.
Sword Auto Attack: 284, 284, 462. Takes 2.5 seconds, so it has a DPS of 412
Dagger Auto: 198, 302, 302. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 382

In practice, this is not accurate. I tried both dagger and staff and the time on staff’s AA sequence is longer than 2.1s.

The staff attack animation goes like this:
(animation)-strike-(animation)-strike-(long animation)-strike-(after cast delay)

- each animation is 1/2s long and the long animation is 1s long with 1/2s after cast. Total of 2.5s attack sequence.

While the dagger animation is like this:
strike-strike-strike-(long animation)-strike-(after cast delay)

- the first 3 strikes happen in roughly .75s, but let’s just give is a round number of 1s and the long animation lasts for 1/2s and the 1/2s after cast. Total of 2.0s attack sequence.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Staff Auto attack: 215, 254, 516. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 469.
Sword Auto Attack: 284, 284, 462. Takes 2.5 seconds, so it has a DPS of 412
Dagger Auto: 198, 302, 302. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 382

In practice, this is not accurate. I tried both dagger and staff and the time on staff’s AA sequence is longer than 2.1s.

The staff attack animation goes like this:
(animation)-strike-(animation)-strike-(long animation)-strike-(after cast delay)

- each animation is 1/2s long and the long animation is 1s long with 1/2s after cast. Total of 2.5s attack sequence.

While the dagger animation is like this:
strike-strike-strike-(long animation)-strike-(after cast delay)

- the first 3 strikes happen in roughly .75s, but let’s just give is a round number of 1s and the long animation lasts for 1/2s and the 1/2s after cast. Total of 2.0s attack sequence.

So I did a couple of trials: time to do 20 attacks against an invulnerable golem. I came up with a total animation time of 2.2 seconds over and over again. Assuming this is accurate, it gives staff a tooltip DPS of 447, which is still higher than everything.

The aftercasts and precasts for animations aren’t always a half second long. I’ve done enough runs on different skills to know it.

I just recorded myself smacking a dummy a bunch of times and looked at it down to the exact frames. The sequence from the first frame of the first attack to the same frame in the next chain is absolutely, definitely 2.14 seconds per rotation. I was the one that put up the 2.04 on the wiki, and I’ve found why that was what I ended up with – I used the wrong timecode (frames) like a moron.

So yeah, its auto chain is still only 7 milliseconds slower than Dagger. It hits for roughly 2.5% less than Sword (which is at 2.52s per chain) and 25% more than Dagger.

Couple that with Weakening Charge + Vault’s ridiculous scaling plus Staff Master/Havoc Master/Bounding Dodger and Staff is just completely unmatched for damage.

what dps rotation do you guys use on staff?

GodSaw.2675:

what dps rotation do you guys use on staff?

Dodge, weakening strike then auto chain, basically keep up the dodge damage buff and then spam weakening strike whenever possible. Is actually a bit boring, I am not very sure if mixing vault in will be good or not.

Warscythes.9307:

GodSaw.2675:

what dps rotation do you guys use on staff?

Dodge, weakening strike then auto chain, basically keep up the dodge damage buff and then spam weakening strike whenever possible. Is actually a bit boring, I am not very sure if mixing vault in will be good or not.

Can you hit all 3 hits with Weakening Charge? Do it.
No? Use Vault.

That’s the thing though, I actually don’t have a clue how to hit all 3 hits on weakening strike, I can hit 2 easily but 3 seems to require the mob to be big or some positioning that I am not aware of yet.

It’s actually not that difficult to land all 3 even on the small Chak once you get used to it. You need to start the skill a few feet away from the target so that you pass through it at about the half-way mark. Once you’ve got it down it becomes second nature

I do have an alternate DPS rotation other than weakening charge spam. Some of the enemies are quite… difficult to fight in HoT. Especially in zerker gear. What I have found is that dust strike does a surprisingly good amount of damage for a blind skill, so I auto attack and pop that to dodge most attacks.

But against break bars, I’ll stay in place, but quickly double-tap vault to jump up and down. This lets me avoid attacks while maintaining a relatively strong presence. Just alternate between bound and vault and, if you do it right, champions will barely be able to hit you.

I’m no good to calculate dps and complicated stuff, but I think somebody that is not me should do the maths for http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Thief_-_D/D_S/P_Shortbow and compare it to something like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAW8al8MhGnYhTw0Jw+ELwE2Wga5Mom7gjwVoWCIAkBA-e and their rotations. Then present me the results so I can enjoy somebody else’s work.

From what I can see by just playing the game, staff is higher dps but I might be very wrong. Weakening charge hits like a truck and costs 3 frigging ini. It works best against bigger hitboxes, i.e. bosses, where D/D normally shines so I think it’s fair to make comparisons between the two sets. I would be very sad if staff is indeed higher dps, it would throw D/D forever out of the window and a very iconic roguesque set would find no further use. Also, staff hits multiple targets so…

Also, does it make sense to still talk about max dps and stuff atm? I mean, dungeon speedrunning might actually die, and who knows what kind of content will people run to get gold. Baybe the new meta will simply be PVT shortbow mob tagging in some random train. For instance, I’ve been running S/D in pve for boon stripping and breakbar draining and the daredevil’s elite skill.

Daredevil in PvE. Try running Superior Sigil of Stamina (endurance refilled on kill) with either Lotus Training for endless daggers flying eveywhere or Bounding Dodger for endless stomping.

Have fun.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Also, does it make sense to still talk about max dps and stuff atm? I mean, dungeon speedrunning might actually die, and who knows what kind of content will people run to get gold. Baybe the new meta will simply be PVT shortbow mob tagging in some random train. For instance, I’ve been running S/D in pve for boon stripping and breakbar draining and the daredevil’s elite skill.

i think that could make sense if we want to min/max about raid dps.
sinister D/D could be a valid candidate too, what u think?

I’ve been trying out DareDevil Staff almost exclusively since HoT dropped. Does any one else feel like it is just 5 → 2 → dodge a few times → 5 → 2? I feel like if I’m not in Staff, I should just SB and tag everything because I’m going to die if I don’t.

I’ve been using Staff/SB with DA/CS/DrD and a mix of marauder and berserker stats just for a little extra comfort.

Was running acro/cc/dd with staff/sb with mix of maruaders/serker/scrapper runes and it was ok. But then I swapped acro for trickery and my DPS literally doubled due to one single trait with no noticable difference in survivability/stam regen. Acro line needs a complete rework imo, it’s totally worthless in PvE imo.

staff auto attack + signet of malice = good pve build

I’ve made/xmuted a full set of marauder’s for a staff direct-damage build, and use nothing other than Trick/DA/DD. I usually roll Channeled Vigor, RFI, SoA, and the last is usually what I switch out depending on what’s needed. Fist Flurry does a crap ton of burst and it’s on a short CD with Brawlers Tenacity. For PvE meta events, etc.. I always have dash slotted, theres just no equal with pack runes.

I nee to play around with Havoc + Bound, but since I usually PvE w/o them, something tells me theres even more damage to be had.

I’ve been trying out DareDevil Staff almost exclusively since HoT dropped. Does any one else feel like it is just 5 -> 2 -> dodge a few times -> 5 -> 2? I feel like if I’m not in Staff, I should just SB and tag everything because I’m going to die if I don’t.

Ya I feel this way too, but I’ve seen vault crit for 15k, and hits 5 targets… I’m alright. It seems to be the gameplay the dev’s want to see thieves go:

Hit hard and fast, get in get out….
Hit Low-Med and slow, but absurd amount of evades while doing so.

I got my full Ascended Viper’s set too, because I like the possibility of condi thief, just not entirely sure on practicality for PvE…. WvW on the other hand will be hilarious.

I’m currently running zerker gear with CS, Acro and DD traitlines. Here is the build I have been running and it is a lot of fun. It deals decent damage, has good stun break and condi removal, and with good pacing of skills and dodging I hardly every run out of endurance or initiative.

Of course being in zerker gear I do occasionally get one shot by some elites and champs, when I do not see it coming, but that is to be expected and I accept that fate. And once I know a mobs skills and anims I start to adapt and avoid such one shot situations. However, I do have some marauder gear too, for when I need that bit of extra vitality, and the damage loss is minimal.

I take a little changes to this berserker staff monk build for survival in full zerk armor/trinkets. As second armor for some HOT bosses/hard events i take clerical armor. It give me toughness and healing power enough to keep me alive in fights. Ofc twin pistols are second weapon if appear any melee problems.
Here is example how it work. In my opinion numbers are really satisfying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyZGW7Pg8lg

Terkov.4138:

How does staff dps compare to other weapons?

Don’t just look at dps.

Staff has excellent on demand spammable fast evade and good AOE damage.
Vault is an awesome AOE that actually treat as an evade too!

I try using it abit in Jungle and really like it alot.

Also that new dodge spam that grants swiftness it’s just awesome.
I probably can’t live without taking DD for PVE now lol..

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Alright, time to do the math… again. Wearing no equipment at all in PVP, we get the tooltip damages for these attacks. With this data, you can get your DPS in any situation simply by calculating your effective power, then multiplying tooltip damage by effective power divided by 1000.

Staff Auto attack: 215, 254, 516. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 469.
Sword Auto Attack: 284, 284, 462. Takes 2.5 seconds, so it has a DPS of 412
Dagger Auto: 198, 302, 302. Takes 2.1 seconds, so it has a DPS of 382

So the staff auto attack is the highest. Now to compare other abilities:

Heartseeker: 710 damage at below 25% health, 1 second activation time
Weakening Charge: 822 damage, 1 second activation time. Hard to use
Vault: 879 damage, 1 second activation time

These are the base damages. There are a couple of unique aspects to each auto attack: Staff reflects projectiles and stacks vulnerability. Dagger causes 8 seconds of poison and gains endurance. Sword causes vulnerability and cripple.

Going away from tooltips, in a max might situation, that poison on dagger will do 8 ticks every 2.1 seconds damage, which comes to about 3.8 ticks per second. The poison will tick for 78.5 damage, so this is an additional 298.3 DPS. Since the staff has 87 higher tooltip damage, this would mean that, for the staff to overcome the dagger poison, you would need an effective power of about 3,429. That is… very low for effective power, actually. Most zerker thieves will have that amount with just their base power plus might, let alone factoring in additional modifiers and crits. Also, most thieves are bad at stacking might.

Overall, staff auto wins. Weakening Charge wins. Staff is the highest DPS weapon we have.

Oooohhh, numbers. Good ones!

Thanks for the math, comrade. I ran my Daredevil last night in MKL and your numbers seem to jive with my experience.

Note that my crimson-and-black-clad Norn Thief isn’t my main and is, in fact, my most underpowered character. Yet she not only did not go down in MKL, but managed to do decent damage whether it be solo targets, mobs and even the Horror.

Fun fact: Stealing from the plastic spider grants a F2 that makes you hit EVERYTHING AROUND YOU with the Bo. I was in lurv

He showcase both D/D and Staff PvE-

clown.7148:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzs5r8oMak

He showcase both D/D and Staff PvE-

Not very well. He admits in the comments that Staff is better but harder to execute, while in the video he claims it’s identical or could come close but it’s just a novelty. That’s a pretty big disparity.

The key principle is that if you can land all 3 hits of Weakening Charge consistently (which doesn’t take a lot of practise), Staff is better. Else, Dagger is better.

Auesis.7301:

clown.7148:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzs5r8oMak

He showcase both D/D and Staff PvE-

Not very well. He admits in the comments that Staff is better but harder to execute, while in the video he claims it’s identical or could come close but it’s just a novelty. That’s a pretty big disparity.

The key principle is that if you can land all 3 hits of Weakening Charge consistently (which doesn’t take a lot of practise), Staff is better. Else, Dagger is better.

I need to do some more testing, but so far, stealing into weakening strikes keeps you stationary during weakening charge, making landing all 3 hits easier.Yeah, that’s only once every 21 seconds, but for PvP it could be a decent burst/opener. I need to do some more tests for consistency, but so far that’s been my experience in PvE.

Stealing in to it restores 50 Endurance from the GM minor, which might remove your 10% bonus when endurance is not full with Staff Master. For PvE at least, it’s probably better to just learn the distances and hitboxes and use Steal to get Endurance back if you’re desperately low.

clown.7148:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzs5r8oMak

He showcase both D/D and Staff PvE-

I didn’t like Nike’s explanation & guide. I feel like it’s too entrenched in the old meta that is phasing out, given he’s still a proponent of full zerk w/scholar, using Crit/DA/DD and the usual zerk glass signets. This guide seems more to me like someone holding on to their VHS because DVD players aren’t really an improvement.

A-net is actively removing the old zerk meta with the introduction of more condi based mobs & bosses, break bars, faster paced game play with the need for more dodge/evade/+damage reduction.

I’m sure this old zerk-glass build is great on paper, given a stationary non-threatening target to go through min-max rotations, but I have a few questions:

• How about the simple lack of utility/cc with this build?
• How many people actually stay HP>90% for scholar bonus?
• Is the synergy between: Brawlers Tenacity, Bound, and Staff Master traits being considered?

Staff play offers a highly mobile play style. Staff master and Bound tell you “I need to dodge to gain +dmg”, Brawlers > Havoc will let you use physical skills faster (coupled with the already short CD’s) and grant you endurance on physicals (INI cost Staff abilities also) for more dodge, thus more bounds/leap finishers/survivability (the situational ‘usefulness’ of this is directly related to bound).

If using a Trick/DA/DD build with physical utilities, the thief would bring 7 CC’s for break bars, 8 if they land a block, all of which on rather short CD’s, AoE burst via vault (pack raptors anyone?), weakening strikes, and on demand 600 range blind to boot. Not to mention Fist Flurry hits hard (at least for now).

With the argument against staff limited to “if you can land all 3 weakening strikes”, it seems like what staff has to offer simply isn’t being considered. I see d/d best used for a +condi build with Orr runes, especially if you want to focus on the AA.