Guild Wars 2

NinjaEd.3946:

I never cared what weapon we got, we still have 4 weapon sets underperforming and a list of bad traits and skills so long it would require the first 4 posts of a thread to be fully addressed.

Can’t blind distract me with new toys anet, I want duct tape and glue for the old ones!

Fixed it for ya.

Again, best bet is the coming large patch in ~October/before HoT, and (hopefully another) big patch after HoT launches.

Actually, playing a bit more on that – tin-hat-theory – The elite spec could bomb, and they’re planning to use the PAX reveal to cover it up…

Agreed. I don’t even care about the elite spec at this point… I just want our base stuff to be better

To everyone who actually thought we were getting rifle GIVEN the data mined image before hand:

AlCojester.4316:

To everyone who actually thought we were getting rifle GIVEN the data mined image before hand:

To those who believe that datamined information is as good as the official one.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

AlCojester.4316:

To everyone who actually thought we were getting rifle GIVEN the data mined image before hand:

To those who believe that datamined information is as good as the official one.

To those who believe that datamined information is as good as no information.

(am I doing it right?)

So thief remains unable to engage in ranged combat…
…And instead gets another melee weapon to die with in AOE condi and lockdown pools.

Warhawk.7095:

So thief remains unable to engage in ranged combat…
…And instead gets another melee weapon to die with in AOE condi and lockdown pools.

but theif has a lot of mobility. the fact that it either drops us on the enemy’s face or uses up all our initiative (putting all our skills on cooldown) doesn’t matter!

(but I’d say they need to rework mobility rather than change weapon (not that I’m against rifle in a future spec. rifle and staff are join favourites for me on thief)

Never really believed that ANet had the stones to give us a 1200 range weapon due to their precious esports (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dual-pistol-traits/5184190).

I’m not impressed by their choice. Yet. Given ANet’s track record my hope for this “elite” spec . . . low. Hopefully they’ve packed some pistol traits into the line as an alternative path for those who are likely to be unimpressed with yet another melee weapon with crappy damage and/or CC and/or conditions and/or high initiative costs, etc. ad nauseum (probability <10%).

Seriously, I’d rather they fixed what they’ve broken or left broken – repair the Acrobatics line, revamped D/D #3, give other trait lines than Trickery reasonable initiative regen boost options (so its not a “mandatory” line), give us back our freking condi cleanse for all conditions on stealth, make pistol #1 attack twice as fast, etc. etc.

sigh time to start making a rainbow melee staff….next thing I know imma be a Santa dropping rainbows and candy bars

Rifle y haz forsaken me?!

Staff it is. Hopefully it will be decent as weapon, and hey don’t remove stealth. One thing that I would wish they did is that any staff on a thief would visually look like a naginata or at least a bo staff, but knowing Anet, we will have to run around with glowing sticks and clubs.

Llort.9267:

Staff it is. Hopefully it will be decent as weapon, and hey don’t remove stealth. One thing that I would wish they did is that any staff on a thief would visually look like a naginata or at least a bo staff, but knowing Anet, we will have to run around with glowing sticks and clubs.

With both Revenent and the Daredevil having melee staves, I suspect we will be seeing many more combative-looking bludgeons in the future.

great. more close range combat to get us killed since we don’t have any staying power.

more viagra please.

Llort.9267:

Staff it is. Hopefully it will be decent as weapon, and hey don’t remove stealth. One thing that I would wish they did is that any staff on a thief would visually look like a naginata or at least a bo staff, but knowing Anet, we will have to run around with glowing sticks and clubs.

Ooncha, ooncha , ooncha, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-893hKSzI

It’s amazing how many people in this thread don’t comment in thief forum regularly, yet have much to say here. You can tell who plays thief regularly and who doesn’t.

Black Frog.9274:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread don’t comment in thief forum regularly, yet have much to say here. You can tell who plays thief regularly and who doesn’t.

I’ve posted the thread for reveal every week so far for every class. :P

That said, I’m particularly excited about this one because I don’t like normal thief much. I’m not a fan of the hit and run style, and by the sounds of it, this might be a turning port for that pigeonhole thieves find themselves in.

ronpierce.2760:

Black Frog.9274:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread don’t comment in thief forum regularly, yet have much to say here. You can tell who plays thief regularly and who doesn’t.

I’ve posted the thread for reveal every week so far for every class. :P

That said, I’m particularly excited about this one because I don’t like normal thief much. I’m not a fan of the hit and run style, and by the sounds of it, this might be a turning port for that pigeonhole thieves find themselves in.

That doesn’t make you a thief poster. In fact, going over your history, you seem to be a Revenant and Necromancer fan and one of those bizarre people who thinks thief is just fine. I’ll say to you what I say to everyone who supports such a view: post your video showing thieves how to play the class in WvW or PvP. We’d love to learn from an expert, so show us how it’s done.

I’m commenting because something new is coming and that’s drawn me to the profession forums. I’m a lousy theorycrafter so I simply don’t get involved in threads talking about builds and half-second differences and the best min-max synergies.

But my Thief is my oldest alt — his 3rd birthday is tomorrow — he is my main for all new content even though he’s so darn squishy, he is my main for RP, he is my SW alt carrying all my SW-specific items, and I’d have to check but it’s reasonable to believe he has the most hours all my 14 80’s (most of that due to RP, true, I’ve gone over to Mesmer for dungeons and fractals). He’s my first of two world completers.

So at least in my case, my usual muteness in this forum is in no way a reflection of how regularly I do or do not play my Thief.

I’m psyched for staff, it fits him ICly far more than would a rifle, I’m psyched for “Daredevil” (though wroth at “Dare Devil”), and if my interests don’t lie in game mechanic advantages but in flavor that still does not mean I can’t have useful things to say in threads relevant to me.

Although I have a thief with steam punk secret agent theme and really want rifle for her to complete the theme, but I think I can figure something out with a staff

Really love thief for pve, especially open world <3

Arenanet loves reminding me why i stopped playing/giving them money. The specialization update and now this. I’m reserving the full brunt of my complaining until the full reveal.

I have yet to figure out that I need to stop checking for gw2 news.

Black Frog.9274:

ronpierce.2760:

Black Frog.9274:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread don’t comment in thief forum regularly, yet have much to say here. You can tell who plays thief regularly and who doesn’t.

I’ve posted the thread for reveal every week so far for every class. :P

That said, I’m particularly excited about this one because I don’t like normal thief much. I’m not a fan of the hit and run style, and by the sounds of it, this might be a turning port for that pigeonhole thieves find themselves in.

That doesn’t make you a thief poster. In fact, going over your history, you seem to be a Revenant and Necromancer fan and one of those bizarre people who thinks thief is just fine. I’ll say to you what I say to everyone who supports such a view: post your video showing thieves how to play the class in WvW or PvP. We’d love to learn from an expert, so show us how it’s done.

Congrats, you’ve just discovered you can’t read! I just said I’ve made a habit of posting each classes reveal information. Also, the reason I don’t play Thief is the one role it does do (very well), is highly not appealing to me, which is sort of the notion I get from many thieves who complain these days, who ignore the fact that Thief is essentially MVP on any high tier team.

That said, this specialization sounds like it would provide better staying power, and a means of playing that most Thieves tend to sound like they’d rather gravitate toward. People get frustrated with their own class because it’s built with a specific role in mind, which boggles me every time they complain because it does exactly what you’d expect it to do. It has unmatched mobility and tactical ways to spike a player down and turn team fights. All I can really say is I’m sorry it’s not the glorious ninja/assassin everyone wishes it was.

I believe many posts before me have already expressed what I feel.

But it’s not looking good for the thief.

Shiro Rev is looking all the more appealing as what a thief should have been.

I have a feeling its gonna have a lot of confusion and daze

Frightlight.3796:

I have a feeling its gonna have a lot of confusion and daze

The flashier the staff the more confusion.

Llort.9267:

Frightlight.3796:

I have a feeling its gonna have a lot of confusion and daze

The flashier the staff the more confusion.

The more “distraction”.

Morfedel.4165:

Tyr.6097:

Thanks A-Net. One well paying customer lost.

I just love people who decide to leave for just one stupid thing.

the problem is that it’s more than just ONE stupid thing that AN is feeding us.
IMO.

ronpierce.2760:

All I can really say is I’m sorry it’s not the glorious ninja/assassin everyone wishes it was.

Now I understand, why Anet decided to name the class Thief, because right now we are indeed look just like a minor crime offenders, who steal a wallet and then run before cops show up.

ronpierce.2760:

Black Frog.9274:

ronpierce.2760:

Black Frog.9274:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread don’t comment in thief forum regularly, yet have much to say here. You can tell who plays thief regularly and who doesn’t.

I’ve posted the thread for reveal every week so far for every class. :P

That said, I’m particularly excited about this one because I don’t like normal thief much. I’m not a fan of the hit and run style, and by the sounds of it, this might be a turning port for that pigeonhole thieves find themselves in.

That doesn’t make you a thief poster. In fact, going over your history, you seem to be a Revenant and Necromancer fan and one of those bizarre people who thinks thief is just fine. I’ll say to you what I say to everyone who supports such a view: post your video showing thieves how to play the class in WvW or PvP. We’d love to learn from an expert, so show us how it’s done.

Congrats, you’ve just discovered you can’t read! I just said I’ve made a habit of posting each classes reveal information. Also, the reason I don’t play Thief is the one role it does do (very well), is highly not appealing to me, which is sort of the notion I get from many thieves who complain these days, who ignore the fact that Thief is essentially MVP on any high tier team.

That said, this specialization sounds like it would provide better staying power, and a means of playing that most Thieves tend to sound like they’d rather gravitate toward. People get frustrated with their own class because it’s built with a specific role in mind, which boggles me every time they complain because it does exactly what you’d expect it to do. It has unmatched mobility and tactical ways to spike a player down and turn team fights. All I can really say is I’m sorry it’s not the glorious ninja/assassin everyone wishes it was.

Translation: You don’t know what you’re talking about, but you’re happy to post information that, ultimately, is irrelevant. The really funny part of your post was “I don’t play Thief.”

Have any of you people begging for a “ranged weapon” for your profession of choice ever PLAYED a ranged class in this game? Ranged damage SUCKS in GW2. That’s a RULE. And they aren’t going to change that rule for Thieves. You see P/P…? THAT is what the Devs feel is a good level of performance from a ranged skill set backed by Thief mechanics. Rifle is not gonna be better than that. It’s just not.

When they do a rifle Espec for thieves — and they will — you are going to be horribly disappointed to find out its’ gonna have the same problems every ranged class has. Terrible damage coefficients, no cleave (piercing is a privilege not a right), optimal position is out of range to give or receive buffs, inadequate ways to maintain/restore distance vs. a persistent melee attacker. And honestly someone is gonna be so clever with it and so over-perform Dev expectations that it finally brings the eye of Sauron down on the whole stealth mechanic and end up getting the whole class nerfed.

Nike.2631:

Have any of you people begging for a “ranged weapon” for your profession of choice ever PLAYED a ranged class in this game? Ranged damage SUCKS in GW2. That’s a RULE. And they aren’t going to change that rule for Thieves. You see P/P…? THAT is what the Devs feel is a good level of performance from a ranged skill set backed by Thief mechanics. Rifle is not gonna be better than that. It’s just not.

When they do a rifle Espec for thieves — and they will — you are going to be horribly disappointed to find out its’ gonna have the same problems every ranged class has. Terrible damage coefficients, no cleave (piercing is a privilege not a right), optimal position is out of range to give or receive buffs, inadequate ways to maintain/restore distance vs. a persistent melee attacker. And honestly someone is gonna be so clever with it and so over-perform Dev expectations that it finally brings the eye of Sauron down on the whole stealth mechanic and end up getting the whole class nerfed.

So much this. Look at what happened when you they gave guardian a bow. There are so many limitations that must be put in place to ensure ranged combat “fits” and “fun” of the spec becomes lost. Don’t get me wrong ranged gameplay can be fun and has it’s place in guild wars 2 but I feel, mechanic wise, it will also be inferior to melee or even mid range combat.

Black Frog.9274:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread don’t comment in thief forum regularly, yet have much to say here. You can tell who plays thief regularly and who doesn’t.

I stopped commenting on this forum long ago. Mostly because it was so heavily PvP and WvW oriented and I have zero interest in both. I’m back again (briefly at least) because yet again it seems like my favorite profession has gotten the shaft again in the name of PvP balance – not talking about the elite spec although not getting a 1200 range weapon is pretty much because of ANets overweening concern with their precious esports – talking about the recent specialization changes. Just about every other class (7 level 80s – can’t stand the Engi) I play got buffed pretty significantly and I can’t say the same for my thief.

But just so you understand that you really can kitten U M E incorrectly I checked the /age on my thief and got: 3,233 hours and 49 minutes over 1094 days, 6,400 hours over all characters over 1,094 days.

Nike.2631:

Have any of you people begging for a “ranged weapon” for your profession of choice ever PLAYED a ranged class in this game? Ranged damage SUCKS in GW2. That’s a RULE. And they aren’t going to change that rule for Thieves. You see P/P…? THAT is what the Devs feel is a good level of performance from a ranged skill set backed by Thief mechanics. Rifle is not gonna be better than that. It’s just not.

Engi is nothing BUT ranged weapons and they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves… not to mention several other professions having ranged specs that’re a regular part of the SPvP meta.

Still, I get your point. Ranged specs are designed with a lot of drawbacks, and a profession like Thief would probably have even more in theirs, due to the design albatross of initiative and stealth.

Personally, I’d just like to have the OPTION to play ranged without it being so monumentally inferior. P/D feels so close, yet not quite there. P/P, well… you know.

Rym.1469:

“We’re proud to announce our first Support/Tank specialization for Thief – Dare Devil and his healing-oriented melee weapon – Staff!”

lol, good one. xD

Kocoff.7582:

Lokheit.7943:

Kocoff.7582:

Look at the colors guys! I am so excited. That red scarf, and that sharp armor right there, definitely looking forwards for this week.

Looks NOTHING like ordinary medium gear dajslhbdljahsbdjbsahdbajshdbhjasbdljsahbdjlabshbcasjlhdbajslhbd * dead *

10/10 artwork just beyond amazing.

ps: Is that some sort of shadow in front of him? COULD IT BE? * dead again *

You’re forgetting the part where it’s looking EXACTLY like a medium armor already in the game that even your summoned thieves wear:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sneakthief_armor

Anyway, hoping this is worth it. I’m almost giving up on GW2 class balance and this could be the one that breaks it or the one that extends the period of judging.

lol you are right. this is pure sneakthief.
only a few days until we really know what this guy is all about. the light at the end of the tunnel is literally here.

Let’s just hope that light isn’t a train. Except if its the Hype train. I like Hype-trains… oh nowaitwaitwait WHOOM.

To the rifle/1200 range camp:

Dude, you still don’t get it do you? They are never (never) going to give us a max ranged spec due to our extremely high disengage ability. A 1200 range thief is never happenning. Combining max range with our ability to easily chain withdraw/shadowstep/stealth is a literal get out of jail free card for both PvE and PvP.

It’s the same reason they changed mob behavior to remember you exist when you stealth, and it’s the same reason they didn’t give us a 1200 range weapon to begin with. They consider stealth, our evade utils, and shadowstepping to be balanced for mid range ranged use, but potentially game breaking for long range use.

If we had a 1200 range weapon we could quite literally kite everything in any game mode with nearly zero risk.

If we see a rifle spec in a future expansion, you can bet that it’s not going to be sniping focused, and in stead it’ll take on a carbine style mechanic and be used as a control weapon at shorbow range.

Thief ranged builds will always be equal parts mobility and range due to the way our class mechanics work. There’s simply not another balanced alternative that wouldn’t allow us to trivialize content by blowing all out init at max range then stealthing/teleporting away until it recharges.

Thief mechanics are not well suited for a max range class. They need to fix P/P, I agree, but our ranged builds will always be far more about mobility/disables, and mid range fighting than they will be about long range fighting. It’s simply the cost we pay for having initiative in stead of cooldowns and having our combination of reliable on-demand stealth combined with reliable on-demand teleports and evasion.

PopeUrban.2578:

To the rifle/1200 range camp:

Dude, you still don’t get it do you? They are never (never) going to give us a max ranged spec due to our extremely high disengage ability. A 1200 range thief is never happenning. Combining max range with our ability to easily chain withdraw/shadowstep/stealth is a literal get out of jail free card for both PvE and PvP.

It’s the same reason they changed mob behavior to remember you exist when you stealth, and it’s the same reason they didn’t give us a 1200 range weapon to begin with. They consider stealth, our evade utils, and shadowstepping to be balanced for mid range ranged use, but potentially game breaking for long range use.

If we had a 1200 range weapon we could quite literally kite everything in any game mode with nearly zero risk.

If we see a rifle spec in a future expansion, you can bet that it’s not going to be sniping focused, and in stead it’ll take on a carbine style mechanic and be used as a control weapon at shorbow range.

Thief ranged builds will always be equal parts mobility and range due to the way our class mechanics work. There’s simply not another balanced alternative that wouldn’t allow us to trivialize content by blowing all out init at max range then stealthing/teleporting away until it recharges.

I would take a carbine style rifle that got stronger as you got closer like Deathshroud life blast. It could have like a 0.55 multiplier/sec at >900, a 0.75 at 500-900, and a 1.0 at <500. Preferably this would be a burst shot of 3 actual shots too to knock off aegis and stuff like that. I just wanted good sustained damage with utility on the 2-5, not a sniper class. Give the option of long range, but make getting into skirmishing range more beneficial. Maybe next elite spec, huh?

You make an excellent point!

Personally I’m pretty happy with staff, under the assumption that it’s a better multihit weapon for life on hit style builds. I run a LoH build and it’s a lot of fun but lacks the staying power of similar bunkerish options for other classes.

Going forward, I could see thief rifle as potentially being like a reverse mesmer GS style weapon and being closer to what anet considers thief balance. Consider that they never really nerfed shortbow 2 spam despite it making a ranged weapon much more effective at closer ranges.

In fact, just look at the mesmer’s GS line and basically reverse it and change boons to conditions (since thief support is primarily condition rather than boon based) and I could see a 1200 range rifle.

Skrimisher/Commando (Gained from charr/kralk expansion. Themes of expansion are largely charr engineering/machinery intensive, engis would probably get a perma-golem suit line, eles get a proper enchanted weapon melee line, rangers get a “build your own pet robot that combines both pet slots” line, guards get fortification summons, etc.)

1 – stealth – Aim – This ability deals no damage, in stead it reveals the user, who gains the “Aim” buff, allowing the next two attacks to ignore range penalties.
1 – chain – hit/hit/cripple – deals greater damage the closer you are to your target, max damage at 600 range

2 – Spray and pray – fire several shots from your rifle, crippling and dealing an additional random condition to up to 5 targets. Number of targets decreases at longer range

3 – Suppressing fire (charge skill) – root yourself in place, and fire several low damage piercing shots. Enemies hit by these shots are blinded. This skill has a cost of 1 init per shot and can be held down until out of initiative.

4 – Tactical Retreat – strike up to 3 targets in melee range, dazing them for 2 seconds, and tumble backward, evading attacks.

5 – Reload – Reload your weapon, dealing no damage, but refilling your endurance.

Hope it will not be condition oriented…

PopeUrban.2578:

To the rifle/1200 range camp:

I see and acknowledge your points on the matter. To me, the question is whether those tradeoffs are worth it; judging by the current state of the profession, I’m not so sure they are. It seems like the combination of initiative, stealth, and mobility ultimately handicaps what can be done with Thief on a design level.

I would easily give up most/all of our stealth—as well as Shortbow #5—if it meant we could have proper ranged weapons and increased durability. Initiative is a little thornier, and probably the bigger sticking point. It is also a large portion of what makes Thief unique, so it’s likely to remain (for better or worse).

Even accounting for initiative, I feel like our weapon choices could be better. A lot of them lack proper initiative dumps, and even within our limited range of engagement, our ranged options are poor (before anyone says Shortbow, keep in mind that it has a SINGLE damaging ability that doesn’t require being at near melee range to use effectively).

Overhauling mainhand Pistol would be a good start. It’s a weapon split between power and condition damage, but that doesn’t succeed at either. Body Shot in particular is just awful… but don’t get me started on how poor our access to Vulnerability is when we should be one of the best at it.

Amante.8109:

PopeUrban.2578:

To the rifle/1200 range camp:

I see and acknowledge your points on the matter. To me, the question is whether those tradeoffs are worth it; judging by the current state of the profession, I’m not so sure they are. It seems like the combination of initiative, stealth, and mobility ultimately handicaps what can be done with Thief on a design level.

I would easily give up most/all of our stealth—as well as Shortbow #5—if it meant we could have proper ranged weapons and increased durability. Initiative is a little thornier, and probably the bigger sticking point. It is also a large portion of what makes Thief unique, so it’s likely to remain (for better or worse).

Even accounting for initiative, I feel like our weapon choices could be better. A lot of them lack proper initiative dumps, and even within our limited range of engagement, our ranged options are poor (before anyone says Shortbow, keep in mind that it has a SINGLE damaging ability that doesn’t require being at near melee range to use effectively).

Overhauling mainhand Pistol would be a good start. It’s a weapon split between power and condition damage, but that doesn’t succeed at either. Body Shot in particular is just awful… but don’t get me started on how poor our access to Vulnerability is when we should be one of the best at it.

It’s worth pointing out that elite specs do alter profession mechanics at a core level, so it is conceivable (if unlikely) that a future spec could fundamentally alter the way initiative works as a balancing lever. I doubt it would happen though, as that raises so many conflicts with base spec weapons, traits, and other such stuff.

Another route they could go with is some sort of fulcrum shift built in to a minor trait. e.g. a ranged spec minor could read something like “when you stealth, you remain visible and become a smoke field. You do not cause yourself to become revealed.” and build the range increases in to the minors in the same line so that you’d have to take the line to achieve max range.

You guys bring up some pretty good points, and I’ll admit I never would have thought to see guardians with a longbow spec either so I could be way off.

That said we know at least this time around it’s staff, and hopefully the BWE feedback will also cause an overall critical look at our existing issues.

Some entertaining pictures in here.

Personally, I’m looking forward to Staff especially since I enjoyed the Revenant one. Just wondering what its role will be. I also got to agree that P/P needs a rework.

Can’t wait for more information on the spec. IF Thieves indeed get Clones – which some people seem to theorize – I could see F1 becoming a Clone-Swap or something like a shatter skill.

I’d say it’s probably not a shatter, as that would be rather redundant. A clone swap though, that would be novel, especially if it also functioned with thieves guild and ambush, and didn’t have a cooldown.

“Wait, no cooldown? That’s totally OP!”

Not really. We’re not mesmers, right? We can call in some extra thieves, but we don’t poop them out constantly like mesmers do. Thus, the cooldown for the ability would be more implicit in the HP of the clones and their particular cooldowns. I’d also imagine that unlike mesmers our henchmen don’t look like us or share our names.

Thus, we’d get this ability to swap around the battlefield, which seems pretty thiefy, but it would be a bit less controllable than shadowsteps and have a pretty easy to understand natural counter.

Clone swapping ala Mesmer Sword #2 would fit Thief well, I think. It could give us another way of getting in, and opponents could kill the clones if they wanted to deny us the initiation (although hopefully they wouldn’t be TOO easy to kill…)

Maybe even a sort of reverse shatter. In stead of continually spawning npcs, and detonating them for damage/defense, we continually generate a form of non-boon defensive buff that we lose when we generate a clone, kind of like a more selfish version of guardian virtues combined with mesmer clones.

If melee staff is good enough for Sooty, it’s good enough for Thief.

I just watched the Wooden Potatoes speculation… He mentioned Rage skills being a a completely new set of skills, and we don’t know if these are exclusive to the Berserker.
I could honestly see a rage bar added to the Daredevil.

He also mentioned clones, which again, are not exclusive to the Mesmer. Shatter is what is exclusive to the Mesmer.

following RB2’s tweet however, I find clones more “distracting” than rage skills. I hope the clones are just one-use kind of skill. My forecasting was, the clones rush to the target, and immobilize/ slow /weakens them. destroying them causes blinds.

PopeUrban.2578:

I’d say it’s probably not a shatter, as that would be rather redundant. A clone swap though, that would be novel, especially if it also functioned with thieves guild and ambush, and didn’t have a cooldown.

“Wait, no cooldown? That’s totally OP!”

A shatter wouldn’t be more redundant than a clone swap. The only thing we have to remember is: The new F1 – if there is one – will have to work with existing traits. This would be the case for a clone swap. But it could also work with a shatter-type skill.

That being said: It is rather likely it would have a cooldown. They won’t let you use, for example, Bountiful Theft or Mug without a cooldown. They’re currently gated by the F1 cooldown. If the new F1 won’t have one, the traits will most certainly gain one. Even then, it is also pretty likely that F1 will have a 0.5s – 1s internal cooldown to prevent abuse.

This makes me soo happy! I’ve always enjoyed fantasy and magic much more than firearms, and the staff thief is just perfect. Can’t wait to try it out

Thiefs preparing new specilization for the olimpics?

Linfang.1087:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Linfang.1087:

How do we know this is not the Ranger? The official post did not say it was thief.

Ranger will most likely show a pet in the concept art too.

Their pet is in the picture, it is some sort of Shadow beast the ranger has. I outlined it for you.

Wow, shadow beast confirm. 100gold this one is a Druid, any takers?

Xaylin.1860:

PopeUrban.2578:

I’d say it’s probably not a shatter, as that would be rather redundant. A clone swap though, that would be novel, especially if it also functioned with thieves guild and ambush, and didn’t have a cooldown.

“Wait, no cooldown? That’s totally OP!”

A shatter wouldn’t be more redundant than a clone swap. The only thing we have to remember is: The new F1 – if there is one – will have to work with existing traits. This would be the case for a clone swap. But it could also work with a shatter-type skill.

That being said: It is rather likely it would have a cooldown. They won’t let you use, for example, Bountiful Theft or Mug without a cooldown. They’re currently gated by the F1 cooldown. If the new F1 won’t have one, the traits will most certainly gain one. Even then, it is also pretty likely that F1 will have a 0.5s – 1s internal cooldown to prevent abuse.

My theory here is based around the spec gaining an f3 similar to the mesmer’s extra shatter, and 1 or 2 new henchman generating utilities, perhaps to generate henchies that use fear or the new taunt condition.

So, unlike the “glass clones” of the mesmer, the idea is that you don’t have any weapon skills that actively generate the hirelings, and unlike the mesmer skills it’s not a “one and done” ability with an additional AoE/oneshot effect.

So, for instance, you pop f3 at a cost of 4 init. The f3 button swaps from “call henchman” to “swap” now that you have a henchie up. As a thief you don’t really have methods to heal the henchie, but you can hit f3 without a real cooldown (.5 sec ICD or whatever it takes to make sure there’s time to hit you one good time with a stun or whatever) to swap places with it. You run in, blow some init, then hit f3 to swap places with the henchie. From back there you can steal right back in to end up next to the henchie, steal to another guy, swap to a ranged weapon, or just hit f3 and swap back in.

This creates a different counterplay than going against a mesmer. Mesmers cycle through their clones, and detonate them for beneficial effects, so it’s never good counterplay to attack the clones. The mesmer wants you to do that so it’s easier to detonate them in your face.

Thief henchies on the other hand add far less damage to the fight, and can be spawned far less frequently, but when they’re up they make it far harder to nail down the thief, so the counterplay in this case is to nail the henchies first as the thief can’t reliably replace them. This increases the thief’s survivability indirectly by making him a constantly shifting but somewhat predictable target. He doesn’t look like his henchies, but he could swap places with them at a moment’s notice, so nailing him down means either traditional disables to keep him from using the skill, or nuking his henchies.

The button would change to swap any time you’ve got a henchie out, no matter how you generated it, so henchies from thieve’s guild, ambush trap, or new utilities that generate a henchie would also cause the flip, and the init cost prevents the thief from spamming out henchies constantly as if he were a mesmer. If he does that, he can’t really deal damage as he’s blowing all his init on henchies.

Let’s say you’ve run ambush trap and thieves guild as well, and managed to get a lucky proc on Improvisation, so you’ve got like 6 henchies running about. Hit f3, swap to the nearest one. Hit f3 again, swap to the next one, f3 again, swap to the next, and so on. the button cycles through all of them, but the thief can’t really control which he switches to so more henchies would generally be better survivability, but come at the cost of damage. The henchies themselves can’t really be traited for extra damage, don’t explode in useful effects, etc. but you may have traited for stuff like self heal on swap, + damage reduction for each henchie present, or other thematic bunkering style traits as befitting the spec.

Basically, mesmer’s clones primarily exist to deal effects/damage and then rapidly die and get replaced. Even the sword swap exists for that purpose, and the mesmer limit of 3 is a control mechanism to offset the rapid pace at which they are able to generate them. Thief henchies on the other hand are spawned far less frequently, and never by freebie weapon skills. Having one die is never really beneficial, while having them alive is what you’d be aiming for as they’d all provide shadowstep anchors.

Combine that with an elite that basically reverse-shatters them, drawing them all to you rather than the target to gain boons, health, init or something else beneficial for each, and it’s a very different than how mesmers handle clones. Thief henchies end up being a precious, useful, but quite limited resource compared to the mesmer’s plentiful, cheap, and expendable illusions/phantasms.