Guild Wars 2

Now that season has ended I thought I’d pose something that has really bugged me: The choice between Staff and D/P. Now I’m not saying I’m one of the better Theives out there but reaching legendary x2 using only thief should stand for something. Anyways, the weapon of my choice was always staff. For me, it was just a nice blend of offense mixed with defense. Your better at team fights while also still being the +1 person on the team. You’re also better at 1v1s with staff. So the thing that bugs me is why are people still using D/P when, imho, staff is clearly the superior weapon. With Staff you literally get blind on demand. You get not one but two heavy hitting attacks in WC and Vault. Auto does good dmg and also applies vuln. Staff 3 even has uses in certain scenarios.

With D/P you get an ok AA dmg. HS is only good when ur opponents is below 50%. Shadow Shot is a great gap closer but Vault is good too. Headshot is great too. BP is ok I guess. Sure with D/P u get stealth on demand but it’s so easily countered in high level play that I don’t even trait any stealth skills at all. Back stab is inferior to both WC and Vault and only does its max dmg from behind.

Any thought or opinions? I’d really like to hear from the thieves who stand by D/P and why u prefer it over staff.

Staff pros; (as you see it.)
Blind on demand
weakening charge+endurance gain
Vault.
Auto does good+applies vulnerability
debil arc has its uses.

Con’s
Consumes loads of energy
Requires daredevil, no choice here.
Bounding is good, but you have to forgo unhindered.

Dagger/pistol (as you see it)
Ok auto attack+poison+endurance gain+double strike
Heart seeker is a leap finisher that gets better vs >50% health targets+low initiative
Shadow shot is a great gap closer.
Head shot is great too+ Works well with pulmonary.
Black powder…blind on demand. makes stomping a lot easier.
You can stealth with these weapons
Backstab only does max damage from behind..behind shots can be had, with weakening charge or vault you have 100% no chance.

Cons.
weak cleave
longer aftercasts-soon to be buffed.
can’t trait for both damage and defense..either 100% of one or nothing.

So according to what you think, you’ve listed more pro’s for D/P than you have for Staff. There is also more variety in traits you may take with D/P. D/P has overall less con’s.

Still confused why people take it?..or can we consider this matter resolved for now?

It may just come down to play style. I’ve used both and can say that I’m more of a D/P kinda guy. Staff is great, but just seems like a one trick pony. I find D/P can really do all that staff does plus it’s has headshot which I’ve used so many times to deny stomps and rezzes. Shadow shot is much better for gap closing and blinding and black powder has many uses.

Backstab isn’t really all that hard to land after a while and I’ve found that vault can be tricky to land sometimes with the highly telegraphed animation making it even easier to dodge than a backstab. The timing to landing it can lead to error and a huge loss to initiative.

Just my own thoughts, but I’m sure if one were to use staff for a while they’d get really good with using vault and the other great utilities it offers. I’m curious to see how the sword and dagger changes go through because I’d love to play S/D again. I miss it so much!

Staff lacks Interrupts (for Impacting Disruption) and Stealth access.
Ofcourse, you can use utilities to somewhat make up for that, but meh. You don’t run stealth utilities yourself and there’s better utilities than Distracting Daggers (though not running Black Powder does probably open a spot for them).

Overall, I find D/P simply gives more utility for any job at hand, outside of AoE pressure.
Would prefer S/D back in a viable position though (just the AA speed increase won’t cut it I think) as I just love it’s playstyle. But hey, we all know how likely that is…

I think d/p is kinda better gapcloser wise and for utility as others have mentioned.

Overall though I think a lot of it is just people not having a lot of time to learn staff, but having plenty of experience with d/p as it was/has been king of the hill for quite some time now. This is the case for me at least. I think staff may be better too, but haven’t had the time to learn how to properly use it.

D/P is flat out better most of the time. The only time Staff has an edge is when there are multiple opponents. In solo fights, D/P has no downside and no wasted attack. Staff on the other hand has several weaknesses including the easily exploited Vault interrupt.

I main staff since it is more fun to me but having played a lot of D/P it is obvious how efficient that weapon set is especially against other thieves.

Thoughts as a Thief who has to fight both:

I enjoy fighting Vault players more because my rapid-strike build set-up tends to kill the spammers more. Weakening Charge is also very easy to kill players on. D/p is annoying to fight, not because its super threatening but because you know you have to play their game. I can kill both once I finally exhaust or bait them, but its admittedly much more annoying to kill a d/p.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Staff pros; (as you see it.)
Blind on demand
weakening charge+endurance gain
Vault.
Auto does good+applies vulnerability
debil arc has its uses.

Con’s
Consumes loads of energy
Requires daredevil, no choice here.
Bounding is good, but you have to forgo unhindered.

Dagger/pistol (as you see it)
Ok auto attack+poison+endurance gain+double strike
Heart seeker is a leap finisher that gets better vs >50% health targets+low initiative
Shadow shot is a great gap closer.
Head shot is great too+ Works well with pulmonary.
Black powder…blind on demand. makes stomping a lot easier.
You can stealth with these weapons
Backstab only does max damage from behind..behind shots can be had, with weakening charge or vault you have 100% no chance.

Cons.
weak cleave
longer aftercasts-soon to be buffed.
can’t trait for both damage and defense..either 100% of one or nothing.

So according to what you think, you’ve listed more pro’s for D/P than you have for Staff. There is also more variety in traits you may take with D/P. D/P has overall less con’s.

Still confused why people take it?..or can we consider this matter resolved for now?

Yes. When I use D/P I can’t for the life of me land a backstab from behind. Whether its because of them dodging or using their blocks or invulns and not to mention its inferior damage compared to Vault and WC. So you end up losing 9 initiative. With staff, all I do is use dust stike(only 4 initiative) which does ok damage while blinding them. I follow that with autos and keep rotating between dust strike and auto until I see a good chance to pop WC. I also know when to pop Vault when all their dodges are gone. With D/P I’ll try to land the BP>HS>Backstab but again, in high level this is just not going to happen. Especially in 1v1s is where I notice a huge drop off in my ability to 1v1. I know it’s not the thief’s role but sometimes you have to, especially when going againts classes like Rev and Necros. D/P is great for ganking and taking out low hp players but other than that I can’t think of anything that D/P gives me that staff doesn’t already and then some. Sure you get stealth but you are not killing anyone with its damage and that is even if you get the backstab in. And this will just leave you more vulnerable because half your initiative will be gone. Atleast with staff, you gain a lot of endurance for using initiative skills so even if you miss you get something back. The one thing I love about D/P tho is the headshot.

For those of you who don’t know, “behind” doesn’t mean the back. It’s more accurate to call it flank stab. You get the Backstab damage from the side as well, which is how I and a lot of other thieves do it.

Just 5,2,F1.

On topic, I tried both, Staff is okay, but the lack of cloak on demand makes it harder for you to evade or reset a fight. The good ol 5,2 has saved me on a ton of occasions.

I feel the dagger to be superior in most every front save for AoE. What it may lack in damage is minor, and made up for by its attack speed.

Here’s the main reasons I like D/P better than staff:

• Headshot allows you to lock down a target when you 2v1 so that your ally can land their damage. This often works better than just having 2 people damage since it prevents heals/escapes/cc/etc.
• Stealth allows you to decap more reliably. Without stealth, any aware player will see you running towards the node and will be more likely to cut you off before you get there. Stealth allows you to get to the node before you’re visible.
• Stealth allows for more escape. Good players will predict a lot, but there’s still a limit to what they can predict, especially if you don’t just keep running the direction of your HS.
• Stealth in general is just so good when you learn how to abuse enemy assumptions. For example, you can BP-HS towards an enemy in a 3v1 to make it look like you’re still pursuing them, but instead rotate out to somewhere else undetected.
• Stealth allows you to start a fight in your favor. If you approach a fight stealthed, you can land your first attack reliably, which can make a big difference.
• D/P has much better gap closers with HS and Shadow Shot.
• HS in general is just really good for low hp burst.

And personally, I just have never been a fan of how big and exaggerated the Vault animation is. I know it can deal some great cleave, but it just seems so obvious and easy to avoid…

Or even better. Use the staff and D/p!!!

staff 5 is almost the same range as shortbow 5 but staff deals way more dmg. Only downside is there is no ranged

bbennett.7463:

staff 5 is almost the same range as shortbow 5 but staff deals way more dmg. Only downside is there is no ranged

Staff 5 is not even in the same league as Shortbow 5.

Is there really a point to staff now though?

If you want AOE damage, use shortbow.
If you want single target, use D/P.

Straegen.2938:

D/P is flat out better most of the time. The only time Staff has an edge is when there are multiple opponents. In solo fights, D/P has no downside and no wasted attack. Staff on the other hand has several weaknesses including the easily exploited Vault interrupt.

I main staff since it is more fun to me but having played a lot of D/P it is obvious how efficient that weapon set is especially against other thieves.

Can’t speak for the current meta. But for the previous meta don’t your own words imply that staff is/was better than D/P?

Last meta was a teamfight/bunker on point fest where ability to drop AoE’s was more important than ability to 1v1. Esp as thief, you probably don’t want to have many solo fights, and the ability to stall on a point was much more valuable than actually winning it.

bbennett.7463:

Or even better. Use the staff and D/p!!!

staff 5 is almost the same range as shortbow 5 but staff deals way more dmg. Only downside is there is no ranged

It covers a 1/3rd less distance and, more importantly, it doesn’t shadow step, so you can’t do things like port to the second story of clock tower or any of the other major shadow steps that few professions have access to.

Midi.8359:

Can’t speak for the current meta. But for the previous meta don’t your own words imply that staff is/was better than D/P?

Last meta was a teamfight/bunker on point fest where ability to drop AoE’s was more important than ability to 1v1. Esp as thief, you probably don’t want to have many solo fights, and the ability to stall on a point was much more valuable than actually winning it.

In most fights, D/P is going to be better choice due to its higher 2 target DPS and general utility. It is a much better group utility weapon. Staff has a DPS edge in fights of 3 players or more. Unlike D/P though, Staff has manageable counter play aside from the usual AoE bombs. Vault interrupts can get a player killed.

IMO if a player is going to max out their 3+ enemy DPS, go with S/P. It has Pistol Whip which is far more damage than Vault and that attack is an evade along with a daze. It also comes with an extra teleport, condi removal, weakness, cripple, Black Powder and Headshot daze. Basically nothing is wasted on S/P or D/P.

Straegen.2938:

Midi.8359:

Can’t speak for the current meta. But for the previous meta don’t your own words imply that staff is/was better than D/P?

Last meta was a teamfight/bunker on point fest where ability to drop AoE’s was more important than ability to 1v1. Esp as thief, you probably don’t want to have many solo fights, and the ability to stall on a point was much more valuable than actually winning it.

In most fights, D/P is going to be better choice due to its higher 2 target DPS and general utility. It is a much better group utility weapon. Staff has a DPS edge in fights of 3 players or more. Unlike D/P though, Staff has manageable counter play aside from the usual AoE bombs. Vault interrupts can get a player killed.

IMO if a player is going to max out their 3+ enemy DPS, go with S/P. It has Pistol Whip which is far more damage than Vault and that attack is an evade along with a daze. It also comes with an extra teleport, condi removal, weakness, cripple, Black Powder and Headshot daze. Basically nothing is wasted on S/P or D/P.

Yeah I’ve decided I’ll stick with staff. It carried me to legendary so why not. D/P I just can’t get a good grasp on it. Some games I’m killing everyone the next I can’t land a back stab to save my mothers life. The BP>HS is kinda clunky imo and I’ll usually just end up wasting 9 initiative. Shadow shot is so good but again I just can’t for the life of me grasp this weapon set.

Such worth tho, when you get good at it it’s straight up borderline graceful lol.

I’ve been having a blast using rune of the daredevil, it worked with the weaponset and unhindered combat and it gives it a nice paced momentum.

Dodge out into a shadow shot crit, aa, Dodge out to blind powder, steal in and backstab, dodge out again and hs crits lol very fun.
It can be mobile enough to really throw people off haha.

It can be a bit more challenging against some druids that are full tank, dhs, good revs and sometimes good scrappers.

d/p is more of a braindead choice simply because of all the damage and utility it provides and as someone above said, and i agree, you have to play their game when fighting a d/p thief

staff while being less of a powerhouse than d/p also has its own uses and scales with player’s skill just as good as d/p albeit in another direction, gaining upper hand when using staff is more difficult but also more rewarding, once you have started applying the pressure you are very likely to win while d/p is often forced to retreat even if they had a successful opening as soon as they soak couple AoEs

for me learning how to properly use vault dodge frames and transferring from easy-to-use unhindered combatant to the more difficult but more rewarding bounding dodger seems to be the main part of skillful use of staff

and simply i prefer staff over d/p because i dont want to be one of that 5-2 spamming crowd, i take great joy in vaulting for 8k damage on top of their heads as i anticipate them approach me in stealth

I wont profess to be anything special in the game, but I have been back a couple of weeks and play a ton of thief. I actually carry both staff and D/P I allowed myself to give up the short bow so that I can have the bonuses of both of these. D/P I find to be superior in most 1v1 and I absolutely love staff when there is a group of enemies. My favorite part of staff would definately have to be staff 2 and mug for stealing buffs on forest map. Both are viable sets IMO and if your willing to give up SB no real reason not to keep both.

Honestly after playing staff I a lot cane to the conclusion in wvw:

If you play thief in a burst/picks role. Hands down d/p is way better. It has way more to offer in terms of utility for a squishy build. Being able to stick to targets, interrupt heals and reset while they can’t is pretty much staple for winning fights.

If your playing a front line thief(yes it works) in soldiers, caviler or sentential-exuberance builds I find staff to be much more superior as a front line fighter. The amount of cleave, blind and evasion is way more useful than the stealth d/p provides.

I’m going to answer from a sPvP perspective.

It all boil down to your play style. Staff has more of a staying power that allow you to fight for a longer period of time and stay in a 3v3. D/P does not offer that.

But here is what D/P offer: I am usually always moving between nodes to +1 fights and decapping. When I arrive at home where one of my teammates are dueling someone they won’t even know what hit them. I’ll go straight into BP-HS-Steal-Backstab combo to almost instantly down the intruder. This goes for almost all fights. If they try to run I’ll just stick on them with Shadow Shot and Heartseeker.

In a straight up duel you will have problems landing backstabs, but in the chaotic environment sPvP offers you are there to ambush, not to duel (if playing D/P that is). If you enjoy prolonged fights and want more AoE damage, then Staff is right for you. But as someone who love roaming and fast paced fights with high odds, then D/P are just perfect.

Just my 2 cents

I dont understand the point of debating the effectiveness of totally different weapons. Its obvious which is better at mobility, team fights, 1v1s, aoe pressure etc. If you want to compare, why not do it with weapons that are at least built for a similar purpose.