Guild Wars 2

i just came here with a lot in my mind hoping for anet to see the broken classes there are out there, the most broken by far would be staff thief, it’s pathetic and lame for a staff thief to be just spamming voults skill for the win, just think about been able to dodge while doing an insane amount of dmg? r u serious? and im not talking about only about staff five, im talking in general, i just cant understand how anet let this things honestly just to go like that… its sad. It really is… dodging while attacking plus the insane amount of dmg. God i miss the good old days… since expansion this game became an unbalance piece of kitten.

HERE is a perfect example of what i mean enjoy this BS.:

I’m not sure why anet doesn’t implement spvp profession balance changes to wvw as well, since its another game mode of pvp.

You thinking that vault is the thing that makes staff good gives me all I need to know.

Evasion is a thief’s only defense along with stealth and mobility, technically. Other classes have their defenses more spread out. The reason people see thief as a problem is because their defense is condensed, making it seem like “spam”, when honestly without this defense there’s really nothing for sustain at all on thief.

As far as damage goes, it’s not technically while evading, the only skill that technically does damage WHILE evading is staff 3, which can be punished pretty easily like death blossom. Bound can be kited or interrupted with good timing, and vault is insanely easy to just walk away from, interrupt, or dodge. Dealing with a thief’s offense is just something you have to practice like anything else.

tomwjd.8172:

I’m not sure why anet doesn’t implement spvp profession balance changes to wvw as well, since its another game mode of pvp.

PvP has got different damage calculations since June 2015 (Deceiver is the pro when it comes to this, so don’t ask me how, what and why exactly).
Balance in this game goes like this: Pvp team → Balance team → Balance. The PvP team tried to balance their mode but they can only tinker with amulets and sigils. That’s why there was a bogus balance for ~1,5 years. I have no idea whether or not some amulets made a comback, but I guess not. So you have less stats in PvP than in WvW. That has always been the case though, but now it’s probably worse than ever.
Applying PvP balance right now would likely destroy wvw some more because of these 2 reasons.
What anet needs to do is adjust the damage coefficients so all game modes are the same, get some amulets back into pvp and then balance everything.
WvW will very likely never again be balanced.

I realized this guy is the one I was dueling earlier in WvW.
@Rapr, you run a trailblazer/dire condi war which has no power dmg pressure at all, its a given that you get countered by staff thief, just like how you counter many builds out there with that.

Against evasive thieves, I’d recommend running weapon sets that lets you proc adrenal health more reliably, mace f1 has an animation that is too easy to deny.

Tbh, running a condi build is basically asking to get countered by builds that have consistent condi clears (EA acro daredevil, mesmer, mallyx rev, CI war, etc); many power roamers pretty much adapted their builds vs condi because of the mundane condi encounters these days especially in roaming.

A thief can “spam” at maximum three vaults on staff before they run out of initiative, and that is only if they are running trickery traitline which a lot of them aren’t. Sure they have other dodges but the Vault skill only evades for the first half of the animation, which means you can CC them down with the second half of it and punish them for trying to spam it at you. The “Animation” of vault is smoother now since the last major balance patch which makes it EVEN EASIER to counter due to the fact that especially at close range vault seems to hang in the air for a second before coming down on you. If you are truly unable to counter a vault spamming thief the problem isn’t staff, it is you.

alchemyst.2165:

You thinking that vault is the thing that makes staff good gives me all I need to know.

Evasion is a thief’s only defense along with stealth and mobility, technically. Other classes have their defenses more spread out. The reason people see thief as a problem is because their defense is condensed, making it seem like “spam”, when honestly without this defense there’s really nothing for sustain at all on thief.

As far as damage goes, it’s not technically while evading, the only skill that technically does damage WHILE evading is staff 3, which can be punished pretty easily like death blossom. Bound can be kited or interrupted with good timing, and vault is insanely easy to just walk away from, interrupt, or dodge. Dealing with a thief’s offense is just something you have to practice like anything else.

I play this build (acro/trick/dd) the most out of all builds. You are correct that it is relatively easy to dodge vault and bound. However, it is not “insanely easy” to interrupt vault, nor is it simply…easy. Interrupting Bound is nearly impossible to do so intentionally, and interrupting Vault, while possible to do intentionally, is still pretty difficult. And doing so multiple times in a fight is even more rare.

tomwjd.8172:

I realized this guy is the one I was dueling earlier in WvW.
@Rapr, you run a trailblazer/dire condi war which has no power dmg pressure at all, its a given that you get countered by staff thief, just like how you counter many builds out there with that.

Against evasive thieves, I’d recommend running weapon sets that lets you proc adrenal health more reliably, mace f1 has an animation that is too easy to deny.

Tbh, running a condi build is basically asking to get countered by builds that have consistent condi clears (EA acro daredevil, mesmer, mallyx rev, CI war, etc); many power roamers pretty much adapted their builds vs condi because of the mundane condi encounters these days especially in roaming.

Regardless, it doesn’t matter how you want to put it that build is not for “countering condi” is for everything and you know that, you can simply counter EVERYTHING with it, i mean i don’t even know how can you argue the fact that dodging (the strongest way to sustain your self) while making a huge ammounts of dmg is fair? but it’s ok.

keep having fun this is what this game is all about, and your a solo roamer too so respect that regardless of whatever… cheers.

Rapr.8526:

Regardless, it doesn’t matter how you want to put it that build is not for “countering condi” is for everything and you know that, you can simply counter EVERYTHING with it, i mean i don’t even know how can you argue the fact that dodging (the strongest way to sustain your self) while making a huge ammounts of dmg is fair? but it’s ok.

keep having fun this is what this game is all about, and your a solo roamer too so respect that regardless of whatever… cheers.

Staff is awesome until the other player calms down, Escapist Absolution counters a condition per Evade, you have to Evade, and you have to burn up utility or trait awkwardly otherwise. You’ll run into better more deliberate Staff players like the one you’re angry about but they’re likely running with a personalized kit and would probably give you a problem on most builds if their playing alert.

tomwjd.8172:

I realized this guy is the one I was dueling earlier in WvW.
@Rapr, you run a trailblazer/dire condi war which has no power dmg pressure at all, its a given that you get countered by staff thief, just like how you counter many builds out there with that.

Against evasive thieves, I’d recommend running weapon sets that lets you proc adrenal health more reliably, mace f1 has an animation that is too easy to deny.

Tbh, running a condi build is basically asking to get countered by builds that have consistent condi clears (EA acro daredevil, mesmer, mallyx rev, CI war, etc); many power roamers pretty much adapted their builds vs condi because of the mundane condi encounters these days especially in roaming.

Min, if it is not one thing about thief it is something else. The crying never ends bro, this OP is just another in the never ending erase thief class crybabies.

Turk.5460:

alchemyst.2165:

You thinking that vault is the thing that makes staff good gives me all I need to know.

Evasion is a thief’s only defense along with stealth and mobility, technically. Other classes have their defenses more spread out. The reason people see thief as a problem is because their defense is condensed, making it seem like “spam”, when honestly without this defense there’s really nothing for sustain at all on thief.

As far as damage goes, it’s not technically while evading, the only skill that technically does damage WHILE evading is staff 3, which can be punished pretty easily like death blossom. Bound can be kited or interrupted with good timing, and vault is insanely easy to just walk away from, interrupt, or dodge. Dealing with a thief’s offense is just something you have to practice like anything else.

I play this build (acro/trick/dd) the most out of all builds. You are correct that it is relatively easy to dodge vault and bound. However, it is not “insanely easy” to interrupt vault, nor is it simply…easy. Interrupting Bound is nearly impossible to do so intentionally, and interrupting Vault, while possible to do intentionally, is still pretty difficult. And doing so multiple times in a fight is even more rare.

I beg to differ. If you consistently try, interrupting vault becomes pretty mundane, and if you’re not interrupting it you can very easily dodge it, or just kite it, so a lot of times you don’t necessarily need to.

This is how to cut bound. Cutting just a bound has become second nature after consistently doing it. Not too hard once you practice it for a while. Also helps when playing alts and fighting thieves, or any class really; it allows you to interrupt people in a frame where the opponent literally can’t do anything to counter it; essentially, if you know how to cut evades, whenever the enemy evades it’s a free CC.

Classes in this game are designed pve only so thief needs to be this way for HoT reasons and will stay like that.

“pvp just happens to be there, and classes are not designed with pvp balance in mind, wich also deppends(on a ver very limited/narrow minded way) on what devs feels its balanced for the purpose and feel that class spec sin it was designed under pve rules, and how players should feel while playing it on pve.”

I don’t understand why you linked the video you did to try and back up your point. I don’t know the thief as I dont WvW but he seems to know what he’s doing regardless. He also isn’t just spamming vault which also makes your claim moot.

Those that do spam vault are quickly left with little defenses if they don’t know what they are doing and easily countered. As mentioned previously you can interrupt both the dodge and vault with practice. Just 1v1 a thief and get the timing right.

Evades are a thief’s main defense as well as stealth. These threads complaining about thieves stacking stealth and/or stacking evades on top of damage are just silly. Could you imagine how fast a thief would melt without these defenses?

Xtinct.7031:

tomwjd.8172:

I realized this guy is the one I was dueling earlier in WvW.
@Rapr, you run a trailblazer/dire condi war which has no power dmg pressure at all, its a given that you get countered by staff thief, just like how you counter many builds out there with that.

Against evasive thieves, I’d recommend running weapon sets that lets you proc adrenal health more reliably, mace f1 has an animation that is too easy to deny.

Tbh, running a condi build is basically asking to get countered by builds that have consistent condi clears (EA acro daredevil, mesmer, mallyx rev, CI war, etc); many power roamers pretty much adapted their builds vs condi because of the mundane condi encounters these days especially in roaming.

Min, if it is not one thing about thief it is something else. The crying never ends bro, this OP is just another in the never ending erase thief class crybabies.

haha cry baby good one.

alchemyst.2165:

Turk.5460:

alchemyst.2165:

You thinking that vault is the thing that makes staff good gives me all I need to know.

Evasion is a thief’s only defense along with stealth and mobility, technically. Other classes have their defenses more spread out. The reason people see thief as a problem is because their defense is condensed, making it seem like “spam”, when honestly without this defense there’s really nothing for sustain at all on thief.

As far as damage goes, it’s not technically while evading, the only skill that technically does damage WHILE evading is staff 3, which can be punished pretty easily like death blossom. Bound can be kited or interrupted with good timing, and vault is insanely easy to just walk away from, interrupt, or dodge. Dealing with a thief’s offense is just something you have to practice like anything else.

I play this build (acro/trick/dd) the most out of all builds. You are correct that it is relatively easy to dodge vault and bound. However, it is not “insanely easy” to interrupt vault, nor is it simply…easy. Interrupting Bound is nearly impossible to do so intentionally, and interrupting Vault, while possible to do intentionally, is still pretty difficult. And doing so multiple times in a fight is even more rare.

I beg to differ. If you consistently try, interrupting vault becomes pretty mundane, and if you’re not interrupting it you can very easily dodge it, or just kite it, so a lot of times you don’t necessarily need to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sSjShLhW68

This is how to cut bound. Cutting just a bound has become second nature after consistently doing it. Not too hard once you practice it for a while. Also helps when playing alts and fighting thieves, or any class really; it allows you to interrupt people in a frame where the opponent literally can’t do anything to counter it; essentially, if you know how to cut evades, whenever the enemy evades it’s a free CC.

well sir, actually i PERFECTLY know an other staff thief can counter it, thx for the info, but im actually talking about other classes in general, thx again.

Aeolus.3615:

Classes in this game are designed pve only so thief needs to be this way for HoT reasons and will stay like that.

“pvp just happens to be there, and classes are not designed with pvp balance in mind, wich also deppends(on a ver very limited/narrow minded way) on what devs feels its balanced for the purpose and feel that class spec sin it was designed under pve rules, and how players should feel while playing it on pve.”

Humm i never saw it that way before but now that you mention it.. i see it from other perspective and i agree sir.

Rednova.5283:

I don’t understand why you linked the video you did to try and back up your point. I don’t know the thief as I dont WvW but he seems to know what he’s doing regardless. He also isn’t just spamming vault which also makes your claim moot.

Those that do spam vault are quickly left with little defenses if they don’t know what they are doing and easily countered. As mentioned previously you can interrupt both the dodge and vault with practice. Just 1v1 a thief and get the timing right.

Evades are a thief’s main defense as well as stealth. These threads complaining about thieves stacking stealth and/or stacking evades on top of damage are just silly. Could you imagine how fast a thief would melt without these defenses?

well it’s true that a thief might melt fast but tbh when you master it, it’s just way to beneficial in my opinion, but anyways it’s in the game and as long as anet allows this it will be fair so enjoy it, and pls share i might even play thief… nah joke xD.

OH and by the way, im not hating on Min for me he seems like a really nice guy, while dueling he even tells u what to do to counter him i guess… cheers again and always remember to have fun.

There are builds that can fight a top level acro staff thief: condi mes w/ scepter/shield+sword/torch (not the meta build), mallyx rev with some sustain gear and double swap sigils, dh(w/ los)
, DA thief, condi war w/ sword/shield+mace/sword or lb (don’t commit too much on landing mace f1s), any druid w/ NM (since pet fixes), and FA core ele (in an open field where they can kite).

These match ups don’t heavily favor one or the other and the outcome depends on some snowballing of outplays.
If you want to be able to take on any opponent in duels then you first have to adjust your build so that it doesn’t get hard-countered by anything. Working on mechanical precision comes after that. Try running the build I mentioned on your warrior, if you play it at its skill-ceiling, you won’t die to anything unless you get outplayed.