This is a sub topic for the state of the thief. you can get to the main overview by clicking one of the links below.
This Topic is used to discuss about a specific skill or trait and to make suggestions on how to improve it.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
sry, why do you want to destroy the class?
BS should not be changed
i don’t get it.
I don’t think that making some skill more skillfull to play means breaking the class.
Also making hidden kill an “innate skill” of the thief so that you can use something like “Executioner” at the same time is incredibly OP.
Changing then the fact that the thief get revealed when blocked or hitting invulnerable targets would balance this change.
By the way we are here for discussing and making proposal for changes, try to add something usefull even if you consider some skill balanced, try to motivate your words.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
That’s exactly the point of BS.
Thats not fun and anet knows that.
Using it to surprise someone to put him into a vulnerable spot is way more fun i think.
Not only for the thief that has to use more of his skills to be effective, but also for the enemy that get at least a chance to react.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
That’s exactly the point of BS.
Thats not fun and anet knows that.
Using it to surprise someone to put him into a vulnerable spot is way more fun i think.
Not only for the thief that has to use more of his skills to be effective, but also for the enemy that get at least a chance to react.
Whether or not its fun is a matter of opinion.
Whether you find it fun or not, a PvP game needs burst classes, or everyone will roll sustain/attrition builds.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
That’s exactly the point of BS.
Thats not fun and anet knows that.
Using it to surprise someone to put him into a vulnerable spot is way more fun i think.
Not only for the thief that has to use more of his skills to be effective, but also for the enemy that get at least a chance to react.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
That’s exactly the point of BS.
Thats not fun and anet knows that.
Using it to surprise someone to put him into a vulnerable spot is way more fun i think.
Not only for the thief that has to use more of his skills to be effective, but also for the enemy that get at least a chance to react.
Whether or not its fun is a matter of opinion.
Whether you find it fun or not, a PvP game needs burst classes, or everyone will roll sustain/attrition builds.
I dont say anything against burst.
But bursting someone down in 3 seconds or in 10 seconds makes a big difference in gameplay.
And you can allways burst no matter what if you coordinate your group and focus a target with your strongest skills.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
5 Stacks of vulnerability would be useless for PvP. And with Backstab useless, no one would play D/D and D/P would be reduced into a troll/chase spec. Enjoy your masses of evade-spamming S/D thieves.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
5 Stacks of vulnerability would be useless for PvP. And with Backstab useless, no one would play D/D and D/P would be reduced into a troll/chase spec. Enjoy your masses of evade-spamming S/D thieves.
If you are talking about 1vs1 i totally agree.
It is weaker then the current backstab.
But in a teamfight those vulnerability stacks can help alot when you focus a target.
I knew that backstab and heartseeker would be the most difficult topics to discuss.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
That’s exactly the point of BS.
Thats not fun and anet knows that.
Using it to surprise someone to put him into a vulnerable spot is way more fun i think.
Not only for the thief that has to use more of his skills to be effective, but also for the enemy that get at least a chance to react.
Whether or not its fun is a matter of opinion.
Whether you find it fun or not, a PvP game needs burst classes, or everyone will roll sustain/attrition builds.
I dont say anything against burst.
But bursting someone down in 3 seconds or in 10 seconds makes a big difference in gameplay.
And you can allways burst no matter what if you coordinate your group and focus a target with your strongest skills.
A) Nobody is getting bursted down in 3 seconds, unless you’re talking about Glass cannon Vs Glass cannon, in which case what did you expect?
B) No, you can’t always burst someone down with coordination, it’s spec dependent, especially if we consider your proposed changes. You are trying to push the meta toward sustain/attrition. Nobody will have burst, because it wont be worth it, and having 3 attrition spec’s whaling on you is not “Burst”.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
5 Stacks of vulnerability would be useless for PvP. And with Backstab useless, no one would play D/D and D/P would be reduced into a troll/chase spec. Enjoy your masses of evade-spamming S/D thieves.
If you are talking about 1vs1 i totally agree.
It is weaker then the current backstab.
But in a teamfight those vulnerability stacks can help alot when you focus a target.
I knew that backstab and heartseeker would be the most difficult topics to discuss.
Not every fight is a group fight – In fact, thieves are fairly weak in group fights. If you want to completely redesign the class and then suggest a backstab change, by all means (I likely still won’t agree, but at least you’d have a more solid base). But as it stands, you’re nerfing thief under the guise that “It will be more fun” and “it’s great for team fights” – you know what’s great in a team fight? Forcing the other team to carefully choose their positioning or else a scary BS thief might down them unexpectedly.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
The issue is thief is a 1v1 dueler. It’s what they are really good at, and bs is a part of a lot of those builds. Nerfing it is just bad on soo many levels.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
I disagree that the thief is a “really good 1v1 dueler”.
The main advantage in a 1v1 is that he can reset the fight really easy.
But other then that the thief does not have a real advantage fighting other 1v1 specced professions
1 word – positioning.
The most popular thief weaponsets (S/D, D/P, SB) all have amazing options for gaining superior positioning. Positioning matters a lot in 1v1, and generally less so in team fights. Thief clearly has strengths that are more effective in 1v1 fights than they are in team fights.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
something that eat dmg while we can do our job. spending 90% of the time trying to avoid dmg is not fun and gives us a small window to burst.
against heavy regenerative professions it is not enough.
I disagree w/ a lot of what’s being said on both sides…that being said I can say that in certain situations/circumstances a lot of what is being said CAN be true….
1. Thief IS a good team fighter…. when in SPvP… when I’m not playing utility… my #1 and really only job is to sit there while my team evades and attacks at a whimsical state, then I see an opportunity…. DOWN!….KILL!!…..then…goes back to playing the waiting….
—- Thief is incredibly good at playing the super predator of GW2….waiting till they find the weakest prey at a point of vulnerability (not CC…but the term)…and perfectly executing a kill. In all reality, thief is VERY versatile dependant on how you build, we can do a LOT of different things VERY well, we’re just not really too good at “Jack o’ all Trades” stuff.
2. Also, getting burst down IS and IS NOT happening in 3 seconds… It’s more like a longazz 3 secs to get ‘em to 1/2 and thief upp’s their 3 and takes the last 1/2 away in .25. Yes… I’m talking extreme Glass breaking extreme glass.. and in a SPvP situtaion… but it happens. Do I think there is a place for build(s) like that thou in the game?… OFC…yes… if you don’t want variety in kill pace…. why have variety in anything else?…. it’s just another aspect of the game…
3. Evilapprentice is right…take away burst builds…you’ll just have more and more of the same ’ol johnny and sally builds that dominate 50-70% of all professions as it is… This game is already too “META” based…we need MORE reason to try something else or something not proven 2 billion times to work great, not less…
I dont understand why people think they cant react to backstab? If a thief stealths… react. Back up, dodge back, put up a defense… I can go on and on. Its not like thieves even have much stealth unless u wanna do the HS combo every 5 seconds and waste time
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
5 Stacks of vulnerability would be useless for PvP. And with Backstab useless, no one would play D/D and D/P would be reduced into a troll/chase spec. Enjoy your masses of evade-spamming S/D thieves.
If you are talking about 1vs1 i totally agree.
It is weaker then the current backstab.
But in a teamfight those vulnerability stacks can help alot when you focus a target.
I knew that backstab and heartseeker would be the most difficult topics to discuss.
I’d rather contribute by the group by going behind targets and BSing them when they’re on low hp while they’re focused on teammates. If you want vulnerabilities use body shot loooool
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
I mean, who would use it for 5 stacks anyway? That’s kitten weak compared to the benefits you can get from staying in stealth with points in Shadow Arts.
+5% damage for everyone who attacks the taget isn’t that bad. And when changing heartseeker to work with vulnerability stacks, it would give you a benefit for using more then only 1 of your skills.
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
You would have to build up for your good damage making it more interesting to play and others wouldn’t complain about getting to much damage with a single hit.
People will still complain. Right now one of the major complaints about thieves is that they have too much sustained damage coupled with evasion. All you’d do is change the complaint to too much sustained damage coupled with stealth (assuming the build was still strong enough to kill at least one person).
The damage would not be done instant like with the current backstab.
That’s exactly the point of BS.
Thats not fun and anet knows that.
Using it to surprise someone to put him into a vulnerable spot is way more fun i think.
Not only for the thief that has to use more of his skills to be effective, but also for the enemy that get at least a chance to react.
How does Anet Know that? Half the point of specs that use daggers are hitting that critical backstab. It’s a difficult situation when the target is aware of your trying to sneak up on them. It’s a reward for being able to flank them. Backstab is the entire point of paper thieves that jump in, Backstab and then run away.
The way backstab functions right now is infinitely more fun and more useful than your 5 stacks of Vuln idea unless you are fighting a champion.
Thief – [BanD]Valnilus
Necro – [BanD]Nighnus the Black
Yak’s Bend
Attack your foe from the shadows, applying vulnerability if you hit from behind. (5 stacks for 10 seconds)
In addition to that i thought about changing heartseeker to trigger on the amount of vulnerability stacks.
Not nearly enough thought put into this. There are so many ways in which this can be broken, to be either exploitable or completely useless.
Besides which as everyone else has mentioned… Backstab is practically the only reason I made a thief. I want to hear that solid ‘thunk’ when I pop out of the shadows, and see the HP bar drop. As opposed to hear a little “plink” and then spend the next 30 seconds maneuvering for an opening to capitalize on that, only to realize that the tiny advantage I got (5 stacks? lol…) disappeared after 10 seconds.
