Guild Wars 2

This is a sub topic for the state of the thief. you can get to the main overview by clicking one of the links below.
This Topic is used to discuss about a specific skill or trait and to make suggestions on how to improve it.

• General
• Traits – weak
• Traits – strong
• Skills – weak
• Skills – strong
• Wild Ideas

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Heartseeker:
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Dagger Skill: 2
Leap and strike your foe. The less health your target has, the more damage you cause.

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Ideas :
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crouze.3078:

Leap and strike your foe. The less health more vulnerability stacks your target has, the more damage you cause.

less then 10 stacks:
more then 10 stacks:
more then 20 stacks:

My Idea:

Leap and strike your foe. The less health more vulnerability stacks your target has, the more damage you cause.

less then 10 stacks:
more then 10 stacks:
more then 20 stacks:

I really don’t think it’s a good idea to make so many topics. We can discuss the state of the Thief profession just fine in your first topic.

As for your suggestion for HS, it would completely destroy HS and make it absolutely terrible. Why would you possibly want to nerf it so kittening hard?!

Just read the Backstab suggestion and now I can see why you suggested this, but it’s still absolutely terrible.

It is way more organized with creating multiple topics.
Otherwise its really hard to keep track of everything.
Talking about 20 different things in 1 topic at the same time is really chaotic.

And i see my idea more as a change then a nerf.
Running around alone would make it a bit weaker depending on the amount of vulnerability you can stack.

But on the other hand it would make it stronger in group play.

crouze.3078:

My Idea:

Leap and strike your foe. The less health more vulnerability stacks your target has, the more damage you cause.

less then 10 stacks:
more then 10 stacks:
more then 20 stacks:

But Vulnerability already does that?

Not to mention that outside of Body Shot, Thief has crappy access to Vulnerability. And it would make Thieves spam Heartseeker in dungeons because of having 20+ stacks on bosses constantly.

Dagger is already a kitten boring weapon in PvE, there’s really no need to make it any more boring.

Here’s is my suggestion:
“Heartseeker” ini cost increased by 1 (4ini), “Heartseeker” dmg cost like it was pre-nerf or just a slighty buff to dmg:
now there are 2 possibilities:
-every time the thief hits with this skill it gains 1 ini back
-every time the thief is bloked, blinded or dodged while using “Heartseeker” or simply it doesn’t hit anything, the thief loses 1 ini more

This is my idea for rewarding a skillfull use of “Heartseeker” since if you hit the damage is increased and the skill will cost just like now, and for punishing a mindless spamming of this skill since if you miss this skill will cost 2 more ini than now.
This also will nerf perma stealth thief that uses 3\4 times “Heartseeker” inside “Black Powder”

HS is fine.

Olba.5376:

crouze.3078:

My Idea:

Leap and strike your foe. The less health more vulnerability stacks your target has, the more damage you cause.

less then 10 stacks:
more then 10 stacks:
more then 20 stacks:

But Vulnerability already does that?

Not to mention that outside of Body Shot, Thief has crappy access to Vulnerability. And it would make Thieves spam Heartseeker in dungeons because of having 20+ stacks on bosses constantly.

Dagger is already a kitten boring weapon in PvE, there’s really no need to make it any more boring.

I agree that it would be strong on bosses. But it is not assured that there will be 20+ stacks on the boss.

You would help to stack the vulnerability with the backstab and other skills to get the most out of heartseeker.

Skale Venom would help as well.

In PvP you could use traps and get some extra vulnerability stacks with Corrosive Traps and attack them while they are vulnerable.

What exactly is the point of the change? Heartseeker and Backstab are two skills that don’t even need s change, and yet you’re promoting change, why?

I think Backstab needs a change. I know you wont like to hear it but it’s to much damage in a short period of time.

And one of the main reasons for my suggestions regarding Backstab and Heartseeker is to make it more interesting to use them. And i think building something up to increase the heartseeker damage is more interesting then just starting to spam it when the target is low.

crouze.3078:

I think Backstab needs a change. I know you wont like to hear it but it’s to much damage in a short period of time.

And one of the main reasons for my suggestions regarding Backstab and Heartseeker is to make it more interesting to use them. And i think building something up to increase the heartseeker damage is more interesting then just starting to spam it when the target is low.

Backstab is the highest burst a thief can have. It still does less than eviscerate or killshot, neither of which require perfect positioning to deal full damage to the target. Not to mention final thrust, which pulls off ridiculous hits on anyone below 50% health, and that isn’t even a burst ability.

Nerfing a weapon more than it already has been because it does “too much damage” when it still does less than several other abilities isn’t a good change.

I think the dmg scaling should be changed from % of enemy hp left to distance from enemy when casted, the longer the distance the more the dmg.

That way it rewards timing and positioning, not pressing it over and over again

Super Riceman.8702:

I think the dmg scaling should be changed from % of enemy hp left to distance from enemy when casted, the longer the distance the more the dmg.

That way it rewards timing and positioning, not pressing it over and over again

ahahaha that would be great for 1 shot HS.

i mean: 1500 range —> heartseeker + steal (traited) = kaboom!

Kolly.9872:

Here’s is my suggestion:
“Heartseeker” ini cost increased by 1 (4ini), “Heartseeker” dmg cost like it was pre-nerf or just a slighty buff to dmg:
now there are 2 possibilities:
-every time the thief hits with this skill it gains 1 ini back
-every time the thief is bloked, blinded or dodged while using “Heartseeker” or simply it doesn’t hit anything, the thief loses 1 ini more

This is my idea for rewarding a skillfull use of “Heartseeker” since if you hit the damage is increased and the skill will cost just like now, and for punishing a mindless spamming of this skill since if you miss this skill will cost 2 more ini than now.
This also will nerf perma stealth thief that uses 3\4 times “Heartseeker” inside “Black Powder”

Except many Thieves use Heartseeker as a mobility skill, and your concept would punish them for that.

Leap on such strong ability is a bad idea and been since the release. Thief already has way too many easily-spammable nice gapclosers, absolutlty no reward for smart play, no counter for builds utilizing range, thieves are hardly kiteable, just spam one button most of the times and you’ll be on target regardless how dumb you are.
I would be after more control, setting combos to deal greater damage not by spamming one key but in longer period, finishing combo with really deadly abilities. That’s said, Thief gapclosers bounded with brainless key spamming has to be changed. Give thieves more blocks, control and utility, but take away perma evade/perma stealth. Make them strong in active melee if they choose so, but give kiters some breathing room and ability to counterplay, punishing thieves for brainless spam and rewarding for predicting and playing to it’s strenghts. Like right now, I can’t see thieves using any cripples like Dagger 4 to keep on the enemy. They don’t need that. There’s always some imba leap or teleport, ready to be spammed.

crouze.3078:

I think Backstab needs a change. I know you wont like to hear it but it’s to much damage in a short period of time.

And one of the main reasons for my suggestions regarding Backstab and Heartseeker is to make it more interesting to use them. And i think building something up to increase the heartseeker damage is more interesting then just starting to spam it when the target is low.

You are completely anti-burst in regards to thief skills from a cursory glance at your ideas. You would substitute our capacity to act as an assassin for being a much weaker melee ranger. Your fascination with vulnerability is beyond me and you are redesigning the class around it and conditions in general- which is bad. Conditions should be viable, not the mainstay.

When you first started making these topics I was really glad that someone wanted to have a great organized critical discussion. While your organization skills are good, your imagination and ability to design FUN GAME MECHANICS is somewhat lacking.

I legitimately don’t understand where you think of the fact that replacing our big “OH WOAH, OUT OF NOWHERE” big damage move with an arbitrary move that stacks vulnerability over time. Stacking vulnerability is more boring than World of Warcraft Looking For Raid-tier boss fighting. Repetition is not the key here. If you really think you want to alter the Thief class this massively, how about trying Innovation rather than attempting to create PvE-like mechanics in PvP.

crouze.3078:

This is a sub topic for the state of the thief. you can get to the main overview by clicking one of the links below.
This Topic is used to discuss about a specific skill or trait and to make suggestions on how to improve it.

• General
• Traits – weak
• Traits – strong
• Skills – weak
• Skills – strong

———————————————
Heartseeker:
———————————————
Dagger Skill: 2
Leap and strike your foe. The less health your target has, the more damage you cause.

———————————————
Ideas :
———————————————

crouze.3078:

Leap and strike your foe. The less health more vulnerability stacks your target has, the more damage you cause.

less then 10 stacks:
more then 10 stacks:
more then 20 stacks:

No discussion needed. HS is fine.

The only thing that really concerns me about HeartSeeker is the fact that I am completely dependent on it for Mobility, kind of like warriors on their leap attack. For example, my way to escape a zerg is to either drop a Refuge, or a few Stealth stacks and then Heartseeker in an arbitrary direction so that I cannot be found.

they are spamming HS. they are OP

Rym.1469:

Leap on such strong ability is a bad idea and been since the release. Thief already has way too many easily-spammable nice gapclosers, absolutlty no reward for smart play, no counter for builds utilizing range, thieves are hardly kiteable, just spam one button most of the times and you’ll be on target regardless how dumb you are.

Many Thief gapclosers are utilities, or skills that require a target in order to move you anywhere. Heatseeker is “spammable,” by contrast, making it usable for general mobility.

If you want to take away the leap, that’s all well and good, but Thieves would need a “spammable” mobility skill elsewhere. Shortbow—which is already a crutch as a utility weapon—would be a necessity otherwise.

Rym.1469:

I would be after more control, setting combos to deal greater damage not by spamming one key but in longer period, finishing combo with really deadly abilities.

The old GW Assassins used long combo chains, and it was fun to play. However, if you missed one link in that chain for whatever reason, you had to begin all over again. In today’s dodge-happy meta, which also contains an abundance of mitigators like blind and block, a long skill combo would never reach it’s conclusion without being interrupted.

Rym.1469:

That’s said, Thief gapclosers bounded with brainless key spamming has to be changed. Give thieves more blocks, control and utility, but take away perma evade/perma stealth.

How would you recommend doing this? Stealth and evasion are the core aspects of two Thief traitlines: Shadow Arts and Acrobatics.

Rym.1469:

Make them strong in active melee if they choose so, but give kiters some breathing room and ability to counterplay, punishing thieves for brainless spam and rewarding for predicting and playing to it’s strenghts. Like right now, I can’t see thieves using any cripples like Dagger 4 to keep on the enemy. They don’t need that. There’s always some imba leap or teleport, ready to be spammed.

Dancing dagger used to be used often, as a kiting ability and an aoe burst. However, this was before the November nerf that cut the skill’s damage by 50%. This was the same “balance patch” that nerfed the damage of CnD by 33% in an attempt to control Backstab burst builds, and ended having a negligible effect on them. Instead, it castrated the offhand dagger in general.

I would be all for renovating it.

Heartseeker is pretty weak on targets that aren’t below 50% hp, and only moderately strong until under 25%. Plus it burns initiative and locks you into the animation without giving you any evade. If you spam it and the opponent isn’t pure glass you’ll take them to 50%, run out of initiative, get stomped in a face-to-face fight and then have no initiative for mobility to run away.