Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
Steal - Improving it as a profession mechanic
You are already given a choice who to target with steal. Giving another to select what you want to use will be a bit overboard, as it will put stolen item effect before steal mechanic in terms of importance, perhaps even overpowering an already barely balanced ability
So , you want to steal an mesmer go away, steal an warrior go away, steal an ranger go away:
and then you go toe to toe with an guardian because you got full buffs 10 seconds on f2 , then you got whirling f3 , and regen f4.
Sounds cool, how about we make it f2-12 3 skills might not be enough
Ah of course, you would ignore the whole “COOLDOWNS AND SKILLS WILL NEED ADJUSTMENT” part. Thanks for that.
What I had in mind was the standard Steal cooldown between each skill, so you can only use each pocketed skill 45 seconds apart (namely, the internal cooldown I mentioned). Skill values themselves would need modification but I haven’t looked at all the numbers in enough detail for adjustments. But by all means, if you want to be smarmy about it and help nobody, I can’t stop you.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
(edited by Auesis.7301)
The idea of the “additional pockets” for Steal has been lungering into forums from thief release day 2 years ago.
Steal is just a planly boring and horrible mechanic, plus imba ( you just need to take a look at Mug damage or some stolen items effect, like the 3 secs AoE fear).
Alpha and beta testers ( and people in other forums) said multiple times to rework this mechanic, since it’s too simple and planly boring.
Steal is the worst aspect of the thief, altough it should be thief defining mechanic ( thieves steal, after all -.-’’).
Sad stories, by they way, say people love OP and simple abilities, and will be fine with them, no matter you show them how bad they are: with Steal, this is the case.
Ah, anyway….
A simple shared CD betweem pockets ( like 15-20 secs) would solve the " you steal A, B, C and D before the battle and go into another battle and unleash hell".
But i know it’s too hard for some people to understand it.
@OP
I like that idea, and it’s very similar to what I had in mind as well, though I don’t think Steal itself should ever get replaced. Just maybe stop taking more items when all 3 slots are full.
The problem though is the long recharge, and that it encourages you to spend an annoying amount of time between fights stocking up on items.
It might be good then to find a way to drastically reduce the recharge of Steal itself (which would require a lot of changes to traits, as well as the ability itself), and add individual recharges to each item slot.
Another option… might be to give the Thief a Steal skill and a Shadowstep skill separately, have two slots for items collected, and possibly replace Steal with a third item once you have it. Or not, no big deal. Two items simultaneously is still awesome.
this is the suggestion that was said sometime ago about rehailing Steal in order to make it a deeper mechanic ( it was fairly approved by tons of people).
F1 Steal
25 secs CD
You leap to your enemy, steal an item, than go back to your previous position ( kinda like Inf strike, without the shadowstep), evading attacks during the animation time.
The items you stole will go into F2-F3-F4 pockets. If your pockets are already full, the next item you’re going to steal will replace the older one ( F2) and continue to do so.
Every pocket will have a shared CD ( 20 secs).
Cunning ( thief trickery stat) will now decrease pocket recharge time instead of decreasing Steal CD
This will lead to some changes into trickery traits, in order to customize Steal, stuff like:
“turn Steal into a shadowstep”
“Steal will also Stealth you”
And similar.
This would also lead to adjusting some traits like Mug ( decreased damage) and Improvisation ( totally different effect, since currently is just an horrible trait).
This would also fix current “instagib” component in backstab builds, that are causing so many QQs.
This would lead to adjusting stolen items effects, maybe adding more items to other professions to carry ( in order to increase the versatility and the effects against a single proff, more due to the fact that some proff items are ALWAYS better, like guardian and necro and, before the nerf, warrior).
Overall, it would make Steal more relevant, deeper and more intriguing.
My idea for steal (it doesnt involve pockets!)
I would give steal 3 slots. F1, F2, F3 while F4 is a shadow return which can only be used 0.5 seconds after a steal. Shadow return should make steal viable for range builds without giving it the oppertunity to port it, hit and port out.
The slots can be filled with specific steal abilities, like you can do with your utility slots.
You can choose from Steal-Offense, Steal-Defense, Steal-Heal, Steal-Buff, Steal-CC … and so on. Since you can only slot 3 of them, you have to make a decisions about the steals you will have.
Now when you steal, you can use one of the F1, F2 or F3 keys and ALL others go on cooldown with it and the stolen item ends up in the slots, but you can choose for yourself if you want to steal something offensive, defensive or maybe a heal or buff. Depending on the target you steal from you get a class specific item.
For instance:
Warrior:
Steal-Offense = Axe
Steal-Defensive = Shield (block for 1-2 seconds)
Steal-Heal = Regeneration Banner
Steal-CC = Hammer for a short Knockdown or Stun
Steal-Buff = Some banner stuff
Elementarist:
Steal-Offense = Scepter which does one of these random spells.
Steal-Defensive = Spell which gives you a 1-2 sec mist form (without stunbreak) or magnetic aura
Steal-Heal = Spell which casts a healing rain.
Steal-CC = Ice Shard which chills your target
Steal-Buff = Spell which gives in a small area around its target Vigor or Mightstacks.
….
That way steal would feel abit more like steal and you can use it more tactical. When you know that you need some heals, you can steal them. When you want some defense, you can steal it. Thiefs would even have abit bigger supportrole as they can now steal also different buffs and even a heal in PvP and PvE.
@MrBig
I really like that particular idea. It seems perfectly solid, and I can’t personally find issue with it.
Makes me sad that we don’t have it, and the pessimist in me says we never will, ‘cause it’s easier to just leave it lame and boring.
I would say though that the leap back should be from a second activation, in case you want to stay in close range.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
this is the suggestion that was said sometime ago about rehailing Steal in order to make it a deeper mechanic ( it was fairly approved by tons of people).
F1 Steal
25 secs CD
You leap to your enemy, steal an item, than go back to your previous position ( kinda like Inf strike, without the shadowstep), evading attacks during the animation time.
The items you stole will go into F2-F3-F4 pockets. If your pockets are already full, the next item you’re going to steal will replace the older one ( F2) and continue to do so.
Every pocket will have a shared CD ( 20 secs).
Cunning ( thief trickery stat) will now decrease pocket recharge time instead of decreasing Steal CD
This will lead to some changes into trickery traits, in order to customize Steal, stuff like:
“turn Steal into a shadowstep”
“Steal will also Stealth you”And similar.
This would also lead to adjusting some traits like Mug ( decreased damage) and Improvisation ( totally different effect, since currently is just an horrible trait).
This would also fix current “instagib” component in backstab builds, that are causing so many QQs.
This would lead to adjusting stolen items effects, maybe adding more items to other professions to carry ( in order to increase the versatility and the effects against a single proff, more due to the fact that some proff items are ALWAYS better, like guardian and necro and, before the nerf, warrior).
Overall, it would make Steal more relevant, deeper and more intriguing.
Hm, that could be interesting. I wish we had a public test server where they could try out drastic changes like this with normal players before actually having it effect the real game… I could see it possibly being unfair to P/D thieves who attack at range but occasionally want to get in close for a CnD… But other than that it sounds pretty good.
(edited by bwillb.2165)
Time ago on the guru forums I came up too with that idea of predefining the role of the stolen item, but with less necesity of preadjustments, simply F1 as steal, then F2-3-4 as steal modes, the first one for offensive items, the second one for support based items and the third one for control items.
This way Steal would cover a-net new trinity of damage-support and control.
I liked the pockets idea too when it first appeared, and as Mr Big said, putting a cooldown on all pockets when using one, solves the OPness problem easily. This way even if you’re not “choosing the role of the item” like the other idea, at least you can choose from what you pillaged.
That idea has an aditional advantage, as F1 wouldn’t be the key to use the items, that means after stealing it could become a Shadow Return type skill like many other Shaow Steps we have, which would allow P/P and SB Thieves to use their profession mechanic without fearing to be destroyed as distance is very important for 100% ranged Thieves.
I think the Thief is a good profession (except if they keep nerfing it ¬¬) overall, with a lot of cool options and we can go on without changing stuff, but the mechanic that gives the profession name feels more like an ocasional (very ocasional as the CD is lon) bonus rather than a mechanic.
I use Steal mostly as a fake-steal to gain the Swiftness from Thrill of Chrime while map-traveling, and to shorten C&D animation on my P/D set. The items are nice (I love that green weird thing that nobody knowns how it was on your enemy pocket and why it is an ethereal field, but man that stuff is dangerous!), but really feel more like “maybe this would be of any use to you?” rather than “let’s plan on this mechanic”.
Warriors will build on adrenaline gain and bursts, Necromancers will build on Life Force syphoning…. Thieves will build to use the Steal button to all kind of different stuff not related at all with the stolen items… you can clearly see something doesn’t work as intended as the steal part is not only not an important part of the Thief, it isn’t even an important part of the Steal button!
Hm, that could be interesting. I wish we had a public test server where they could try out drastic changes like this with normal players before actually having it effect the real game… I could see it possibly being unfair to P/D thieves who attack at range but occasionally want to get in close for a CnD… But other than that it sounds pretty good.
TBH, currently Steal is totally unfair for P/P thieves, who wants to keep range at any cost ( and struggle a lot in doing so).
P/P is already a weak set by its own, moreover it suffers from not being able to use Steal without getting a disadvantage.
Not only that, but also in end game PvE, a thief gets instagibbed by bosses by simply going into melee range at the wrong time: again Steal can be quite risky, and the reward is often not enough ( in PvE, Steal is even worse, often outmatched by environmental weapons you find on the ground).
About P/D, the set is already about dancing around your opponent more than simply going ranged: this change to steal would simply make it " a bit more difficult", nothing more.
Anyway, a simple, new trait able to turn Steal into a shadowstep would solve the issue; not only that, but also you would now be able to close the gap more frequently due to the cheaper CD.
Time ago on the guru forums I came up too with that idea of predefining the role of the stolen item, but with less necesity of preadjustments, simply F1 as steal, then F2-3-4 as steal modes, the first one for offensive items, the second one for support based items and the third one for control items.
This way Steal would cover a-net new trinity of damage-support and control.
I liked the pockets idea too when it first appeared, and as Mr Big said, putting a cooldown on all pockets when using one, solves the OPness problem easily. This way even if you’re not “choosing the role of the item” like the other idea, at least you can choose from what you pillaged.
That idea has an aditional advantage, as F1 wouldn’t be the key to use the items, that means after stealing it could become a Shadow Return type skill like many other Shaow Steps we have, which would allow P/P and SB Thieves to use their profession mechanic without fearing to be destroyed as distance is very important for 100% ranged Thieves.
I think the Thief is a good profession (except if they keep nerfing it ¬¬) overall, with a lot of cool options and we can go on without changing stuff, but the mechanic that gives the profession name feels more like an ocasional (very ocasional as the CD is lon) bonus rather than a mechanic.
I use Steal mostly as a fake-steal to gain the Swiftness from Thrill of Chrime while map-traveling, and to shorten C&D animation on my P/D set. The items are nice (I love that green weird thing that nobody knowns how it was on your enemy pocket and why it is an ethereal field, but man that stuff is dangerous!), but really feel more like “maybe this would be of any use to you?” rather than “let’s plan on this mechanic”.
Warriors will build on adrenaline gain and bursts, Necromancers will build on Life Force syphoning…. Thieves will build to use the Steal button to all kind of different stuff not related at all with the stolen items… you can clearly see something doesn’t work as intended as the steal part is not only not an important part of the Thief, it isn’t even an important part of the Steal button!
We went through a lot of suggestions for Steal to make it a more appealing mechanic.
Steal has been complained from the dawn of times, still nothing really changed.
As soon as they nerf thief gimmicky stuff ( like the LULZ burst damage and DB spamming), the thief will be left with so few viable choices that they’ll end up changing Steal, and lots of other thief stuff.
That’s what I hope, at least.
The thief got nerfed so much ( and will still be ) because it’s really not balanced.
As soon as the “soft approach” won’t be enough, maybe we’ll see something drastic.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)
TBH, currently Steal is totally unfair for P/P thieves, who wants to keep range at any cost ( and struggle a lot in doing so).
P/P is already a weak set by its own, moreover it suffers from not being able to use Steal without getting a disadvantage.
Not only that, but also in end game PvE, a thief gets instagibbed by bosses by simply going into melee range at the wrong time: again Steal can be quite risky, and the reward is often not enough ( in PvE, Steal is even worse, often outmatched by environmental weapons you find on the ground).
About P/D, the set is already about dancing around your opponent more than simply going ranged: this change to steal would simply make it " a bit more difficult", nothing more.
Anyway, a simple, new trait able to turn Steal into a shadowstep would solve the issue; not only that, but also you would now be able to close the gap more frequently due to the cheaper CD.
That’s true. I’d have to see it in action before I completely get behind it, but it could certainly work.