Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

You really don’t know stealth at all.

In the game I come from, stealth on the assassin was free to cast and had a permanent duration, and the class when built right could one-shot literally anything and everything in the game. This same class had access to 40+ straight seconds of hard CC and area denial skills to prevent people from escaping.

Thing was, it was still fair in high tier play.

Stealth is very far from the same in every game, and clearly you do not have experience to understand the difficulty.

I look forward to seeing you in NASCAR as someone mentioned above

You too. You are ok now

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience them all time in wvw and spvp. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant. You need to be careful of using that word; not nice.

“Ignorant” is not a bad word. It doesn’t mean stupid. It doesn’t mean idiot. Ignorant doesn’t mean any of those things. It can be in certain context, but that’s not the meaning I’ve used in my post.

I can assure you, I have knowledge and experience and I have played Elementalist, but I am still ignorant about the profession. There are things in the profession I simply do not understand thus my lack of experience.

In the same way, I am ignorant when it comes to Mesmers, regardless of my knowledge and experience about them.

“Ignorant” is not a bad word.

If you’re ignorant and not willing to learn… then that’s bad…
At that point, there’s no sympathy for you.

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

Knowing how something is done and being able to do it yourself are completely different things. There is time and experienced involved. You are inexperienced in how to use a thief and it appears that you die too quickly in fights against them from your posts to gain experience fighting them. That is why people suggest that you play one yourself, so you can see the other side of the coin, learn the setups and strategies first hand, then take that to your main once you know how to counter them.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Hello, I’m a Thief and I hate Stealth — Not because it’s OP, but because it is a bother.

1) To require to stealth just to backstab someone is a stupid mechanic. It’s not like your target’s back simply disappears when you’re not in stealth. It should be that when I position myself at the back or at flank, the backstab bonus should trigger — automatically. In addition, all sneak attacks should have this same no-stealth-required mechanic.

2) Stealth ruins DPS for SA builds. To get the maximum benefit from SA, the Thief must stay in stealth for the duration while in the mean time not contributing to the team. Often times, stealth is used in combat for the reason posted at #1. It’s a bother and no one really uses SA for this very reason and if the Thief would want to maintain a high DPS they have to stay away from SA. Shadow Arts shouldn’t have to revolve around stealth, it should instead improve shadowstep skills.

3) Revealed is a bother and it is because of stealth. Not only that reveal denies stealth but it also cuts the effectiveness of many skills that Thief uses for survival. For instance, Hide in Shadows. This skill suppose to heal and protect the Thief. However when revealed, its effectiveness diminishes only because stealth cannot protect the Thief from receiving further damage. It would be more effective if the skill shadowsteps us away just like Heart of Shadow from GW1 instead of stealth. It would serve the same purpose.

I have been complaining about stealth for a long time and I am not a supporter of this mechanic. I do accept however that this is a defense mechanism, albeit a horrible one, but there are times that developer have to reiterate and reboot a profession.

Oh my … another spin doctor. While there is some truth to what you say you neatly leave out:

(a) Extra damage when you do a flank attack (if traited so)
(b) Extra damage when revealed (if traited so)

So there’s nice compensation for being revealed or to just execute one autoattack chain from the side/back .

Maugetarr.6823:

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

Knowing how something is done and being able to do it yourself are completely different things. There is time and experienced involved. You are inexperienced in how to use a thief and it appears that you die too quickly in fights against them from your posts to gain experience fighting them. That is why people suggest that you play one yourself, so you can see the other side of the coin, learn the setups and strategies first hand, then take that to your main once you know how to counter them.

There is no counter but sheer luck against a macro’ed CnD preload, Steal + Backstab. Luck as that a nearby guardian grants Aegis, luck that some blind happens and affects the chain, luck that you happen to move or dodge someone elses attack and thus mess up the thief’s attack …

Outside of sheer luck the combo will land and – especially if you’re fighting someone else and have already lost some life – it’ll most likely be deadly.

HtFde.3856:

Maugetarr.6823:

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

Knowing how something is done and being able to do it yourself are completely different things. There is time and experienced involved. You are inexperienced in how to use a thief and it appears that you die too quickly in fights against them from your posts to gain experience fighting them. That is why people suggest that you play one yourself, so you can see the other side of the coin, learn the setups and strategies first hand, then take that to your main once you know how to counter them.

There is no counter but sheer luck against a macro’ed CnD preload, Steal + Backstab. Luck as that a nearby guardian grants Aegis, luck that some blind happens and affects the chain, luck that you happen to move or dodge someone elses attack and thus mess up the thief’s attack …

Outside of sheer luck the combo will land and – especially if you’re fighting someone else and have already lost some life – it’ll most likely be deadly.

You can actually see the animation for CnD winding up before the steal or you should dodge immediately after the steal hits because they have cast it late.

You can pop a block against the backstab if you miss dodging the CnD.

You can simply turn around and take the 1.2 coefficient to the face also. 1.2 also happens to be the same coefficient as necro auto attacks on dagger. Warrior has a 1.4 on double and triple chop as well as a 1.5 on the final hit of triple chop (1.5 is equal to a midrange heartseeker). Lightning whip has a 1.4 on the hit pairs. The single target burst is meant to bring thief up to other classes’ sustained damage in trade for defensive boons, cooldowns, and AoE bursts.

Who the hell need a macro for CnD+steal+backstab?
If you don´t see that thief coming around the corner, never look behind, overlooked that house (refuge) over there in the trees, etc, then you deserve to be punished. You need to be aware of your surroundings all the time, in pvp as well as in wvw.
You know what happened once in a scrim in wvw? Me and my mates (fokus-party) stealthed, searched for a target/enemy fp and saw a powderfield appearing our mesmer used his distortion, ran into it, they revealed and we killed them. Because we were aware of what happened…
So, instakill, yes? You almost can´t instakill someone who is tanky or tankier. Maybe you can do that with an signet—>might build, but that has an longer recovery time. Sometimes I run around with 66200 full glass and can instakill other glassy or glassier people (full stacked of course). But when I can instakill them, they can instakill me or at least very quickly (here I advice you to look at the viedo I posted earlier),too. You understand? You know that a mesmer can keep stealth up for a certain time and instakill you, too… Ranger kann cast rapidfire with some skills together and instakill thieves, too. A warri can bridge a lot of space incredible fast and beat you the hell out of your soul (with the signet the eviscerate can be ready at that point, too). The clue is to be ready for everything. You know that thieves are out there.
That extra damage when revealed is not used that much you know? High damage builds are something like 66200/56003, but I prefer panic strike much more. That 5% extra damage are used in instakill-builds though. But if you think a rarely used grandmaster-trait and 5% damage are compensating to be very squishy and in melee, then I don´t knwo what to say. Let us take a glass warri with axe and a glass thief with daggers, who you think will win when just hitting each other (going to flank each other allowed). Compensate that please
And if a thief comes along, seeing you with lower health and backstabbing you to death, you don´t think something like rapidfire would have done the same? And again, when 1 good player fights 2 other good ones, they will win or are not that good.
Of course I had dozens of 1vs1 and then another player got in and killed me. Then I wasn´t aware of the environment… Yesterday I fought against 3 mesmer which were so bad I nearly wanted to whine. They missed everything that they could miss somehow, didn´t what mesmer normaly do, got confused by me running around a pillar (it was in sn), rezzed their dead mate (not using distortion mostly when needed). I know some mesmer which even give me problems on S/D (I know I know ^^), but that are good ones. But I kill thieves beeing that bad while drinking my coffee, too. Whereas other thieves give me a hell of a fight
Never compare bad players with good ones.
What interests me is if you have the same problems with fresh-air-ele?

Sir Vincent III.1286 is right in a lot of things and made far better posts about solutions, what he EXACTLY thinks and that things that bring up an interesting discussion. And I agree in a lot of points (don´t know if on all of them, can´t remember everything xD).
To reward thieves go off stealth, etc.

Stealth not OP…lol. Add stealth detection skills and all will be right with the world.

HtFde.3856:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Hello, I’m a Thief and I hate Stealth — Not because it’s OP, but because it is a bother.

1) To require to stealth just to backstab someone is a stupid mechanic. It’s not like your target’s back simply disappears when you’re not in stealth. It should be that when I position myself at the back or at flank, the backstab bonus should trigger — automatically. In addition, all sneak attacks should have this same no-stealth-required mechanic.

2) Stealth ruins DPS for SA builds. To get the maximum benefit from SA, the Thief must stay in stealth for the duration while in the mean time not contributing to the team. Often times, stealth is used in combat for the reason posted at #1. It’s a bother and no one really uses SA for this very reason and if the Thief would want to maintain a high DPS they have to stay away from SA. Shadow Arts shouldn’t have to revolve around stealth, it should instead improve shadowstep skills.

3) Revealed is a bother and it is because of stealth. Not only that reveal denies stealth but it also cuts the effectiveness of many skills that Thief uses for survival. For instance, Hide in Shadows. This skill suppose to heal and protect the Thief. However when revealed, its effectiveness diminishes only because stealth cannot protect the Thief from receiving further damage. It would be more effective if the skill shadowsteps us away just like Heart of Shadow from GW1 instead of stealth. It would serve the same purpose.

I have been complaining about stealth for a long time and I am not a supporter of this mechanic. I do accept however that this is a defense mechanism, albeit a horrible one, but there are times that developer have to reiterate and reboot a profession.

Oh my … another spin doctor. While there is some truth to what you say you neatly leave out:

(a) Extra damage when you do a flank attack (if traited so)
(b) Extra damage when revealed (if traited so)

So there’s nice compensation for being revealed or to just execute one autoattack chain from the side/back .

What’s your point? The extra damage doesn’t eliminate how annoying and bothersome stealth is. Stealth is an unnecessary requirement to gain access to certain ability like Backstab.

Yet another ignorant who thinks that Flanking Strikes and Revealed Training are great traits. sigh

Maugetarr.6823:

HtFde.3856:

Maugetarr.6823:

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

Knowing how something is done and being able to do it yourself are completely different things. There is time and experienced involved. You are inexperienced in how to use a thief and it appears that you die too quickly in fights against them from your posts to gain experience fighting them. That is why people suggest that you play one yourself, so you can see the other side of the coin, learn the setups and strategies first hand, then take that to your main once you know how to counter them.

There is no counter but sheer luck against a macro’ed CnD preload, Steal + Backstab. Luck as that a nearby guardian grants Aegis, luck that some blind happens and affects the chain, luck that you happen to move or dodge someone elses attack and thus mess up the thief’s attack …

Outside of sheer luck the combo will land and – especially if you’re fighting someone else and have already lost some life – it’ll most likely be deadly.

You can actually see the animation for CnD winding up before the steal or you should dodge immediately after the steal hits because they have cast it late.

You can pop a block against the backstab if you miss dodging the CnD.

You can simply turn around and take the 1.2 coefficient to the face also. 1.2 also happens to be the same coefficient as necro auto attacks on dagger. Warrior has a 1.4 on double and triple chop as well as a 1.5 on the final hit of triple chop (1.5 is equal to a midrange heartseeker). Lightning whip has a 1.4 on the hit pairs. The single target burst is meant to bring thief up to other classes’ sustained damage in trade for defensive boons, cooldowns, and AoE bursts.

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Sir Vincent III.1286:

HtFde.3856:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Hello, I’m a Thief and I hate Stealth — Not because it’s OP, but because it is a bother.

1) To require to stealth just to backstab someone is a stupid mechanic. It’s not like your target’s back simply disappears when you’re not in stealth. It should be that when I position myself at the back or at flank, the backstab bonus should trigger — automatically. In addition, all sneak attacks should have this same no-stealth-required mechanic.

2) Stealth ruins DPS for SA builds. To get the maximum benefit from SA, the Thief must stay in stealth for the duration while in the mean time not contributing to the team. Often times, stealth is used in combat for the reason posted at #1. It’s a bother and no one really uses SA for this very reason and if the Thief would want to maintain a high DPS they have to stay away from SA. Shadow Arts shouldn’t have to revolve around stealth, it should instead improve shadowstep skills.

3) Revealed is a bother and it is because of stealth. Not only that reveal denies stealth but it also cuts the effectiveness of many skills that Thief uses for survival. For instance, Hide in Shadows. This skill suppose to heal and protect the Thief. However when revealed, its effectiveness diminishes only because stealth cannot protect the Thief from receiving further damage. It would be more effective if the skill shadowsteps us away just like Heart of Shadow from GW1 instead of stealth. It would serve the same purpose.

I have been complaining about stealth for a long time and I am not a supporter of this mechanic. I do accept however that this is a defense mechanism, albeit a horrible one, but there are times that developer have to reiterate and reboot a profession.

Oh my … another spin doctor. While there is some truth to what you say you neatly leave out:

(a) Extra damage when you do a flank attack (if traited so)
(b) Extra damage when revealed (if traited so)

So there’s nice compensation for being revealed or to just execute one autoattack chain from the side/back .

What’s your point? The extra damage doesn’t eliminate how annoying and bothersome stealth is. Stealth is an unnecessary requirement to gain access to certain ability like Backstab.

Yet another ignorant who thinks that Flanking Strikes and Revealed Training are great traits. sigh

Not great but it’s a nice sugar for when the thief misses …

I could play devil’s advocate and interpret your post as “OK, I want backstab without stealth” but I kinda read it more like “Thief class should be reworked” and that’s a point a I could agree with

Stealth exists in a couple of games but usually it’s more balanced than in GW 2 where they packed just too many goodies that are available at the same time. I much prefer approaches where you can perma stealth but have to “survive” detection checks and where stealth is broken once you engage and cannot be regained until you’re out of combat.

Of course … this would mean a thief would have to be viable when out of stealth for the rest of the fight – a situation that is currently not happening in GW 2.

HtFde.3856:

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Can you see a rifle warrior sniping or using eviscerate on you in that situation?

So where is it anets or the stealth fault, when you don´t pay attention or aren´t capable to overlook the fight against 1-2 players? I´m not aware of everything every single time, too. But then I´m guilty for myself…
Don´t blame someone or a mechanic like stealth for not beeing able to do something.
Fought today against a warri, that played axe/shield – GS very good, fought against him earlier this week in OS, too, where he wrecked me ^^
So today we met again and some friends wanted to try against him. They all got wrecked, too. 3 Thieves, one mesmer and another class I can´t remember. On my first match I died in seconds, the next 4 fights I won with almost not using stealth (shadow refuge for immediate immob + liefesteal), simple by managing my evades and possibilities. You see we CAN fight without stealth, but its limited and there were 3 other more or less capable players that couldn´t… Because I knew what to do and was aware of what I had to do, to beat him. Being able to adapt, to learn and to see things is essential in that game. So learn to look at your own back when fighting someone.
My example wasn´t the best though. I hope you get the point that people can learn something.
And why I have the impression you only pick one or two things of what we talk and ignores everything else?

HtFde.3856:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

HtFde.3856:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Hello, I’m a Thief and I hate Stealth — Not because it’s OP, but because it is a bother.

1) To require to stealth just to backstab someone is a stupid mechanic. It’s not like your target’s back simply disappears when you’re not in stealth. It should be that when I position myself at the back or at flank, the backstab bonus should trigger — automatically. In addition, all sneak attacks should have this same no-stealth-required mechanic.

2) Stealth ruins DPS for SA builds. To get the maximum benefit from SA, the Thief must stay in stealth for the duration while in the mean time not contributing to the team. Often times, stealth is used in combat for the reason posted at #1. It’s a bother and no one really uses SA for this very reason and if the Thief would want to maintain a high DPS they have to stay away from SA. Shadow Arts shouldn’t have to revolve around stealth, it should instead improve shadowstep skills.

3) Revealed is a bother and it is because of stealth. Not only that reveal denies stealth but it also cuts the effectiveness of many skills that Thief uses for survival. For instance, Hide in Shadows. This skill suppose to heal and protect the Thief. However when revealed, its effectiveness diminishes only because stealth cannot protect the Thief from receiving further damage. It would be more effective if the skill shadowsteps us away just like Heart of Shadow from GW1 instead of stealth. It would serve the same purpose.

I have been complaining about stealth for a long time and I am not a supporter of this mechanic. I do accept however that this is a defense mechanism, albeit a horrible one, but there are times that developer have to reiterate and reboot a profession.

Oh my … another spin doctor. While there is some truth to what you say you neatly leave out:

(a) Extra damage when you do a flank attack (if traited so)
(b) Extra damage when revealed (if traited so)

So there’s nice compensation for being revealed or to just execute one autoattack chain from the side/back .

What’s your point? The extra damage doesn’t eliminate how annoying and bothersome stealth is. Stealth is an unnecessary requirement to gain access to certain ability like Backstab.

Yet another ignorant who thinks that Flanking Strikes and Revealed Training are great traits. sigh

Not great but it’s a nice sugar for when the thief misses …

I could play devil’s advocate and interpret your post as “OK, I want backstab without stealth” but I kinda read it more like “Thief class should be reworked” and that’s a point a I could agree with

Stealth exists in a couple of games but usually it’s more balanced than in GW 2 where they packed just too many goodies that are available at the same time. I much prefer approaches where you can perma stealth but have to “survive” detection checks and where stealth is broken once you engage and cannot be regained until you’re out of combat.

Of course … this would mean a thief would have to be viable when out of stealth for the rest of the fight – a situation that is currently not happening in GW 2.

There are many existing builds that doesn’t require stealth. My issue is that ArenaNet is gating half of our skills behind stealth and other trash traits (i.e. Improvisation).

It would have been better if many SA traits activates on Shadowsteps instead of stealth. A lot of weapon skill #1 would have been viable if for example Sword #1 becomes Tactical Strike after using shadowstep. This way, it removes the reliance on stealth.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation can be remake to trigger a Regen Buff after using shadowstep — ans Resilience of Shadow can easily be a Protection Buff after shadowstep. It’s really annoying that we have to build around stealth to have access to these survival traits. Other non-stealth build could definitely use these.

Those who thinks that stealth is OP have no idea how limiting and annoying it is. Build diversity is lacking because of these stupid design decisions.

Jana.6831:

HtFde.3856:

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Can you see a rifle warrior sniping or using eviscerate on you in that situation?

Rifle warrior – no, last time I’ve seen a rifle warrior … must have been a few months ago. Eviscerate – probably because warriors do not come out of nowhere, neither do elementalists channeling earth 5 and using air 4 to deliver it.

The situation might be a bit worse where I play because, as I said before, about 30%+ of our enemies play thief – usually in groups of 2 thieves, one not-thief like Engi or Mesmer.

HtFde.3856:

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Wait, you’re already fighting versus one or two people so a burst class comes in and finishes you. That would happen with virtually any group of 2 or 3 that decided to focus you down. Especially if you’ve blown cooldowns in that fight. If you can have 2-3 people jump you and survive without cooldowns, then that class would be OP, not the thief.

Even when a thief gets focused, they typically blow 2 cooldowns to escape.

I never made the claim that I was leet enough to handle 2-3 people (of equal skill) while fighting like that. If we’re having this whole argument on the fact that you can lose against 1v2+ burst people attacking you, burst (and auto attacks) across all classes would have to be severely reduced in damage.

Maugetarr.6823:

HtFde.3856:

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Wait, you’re already fighting versus one or two people so a burst class comes in and finishes you. That would happen with virtually any group of 2 or 3 that decided to focus you down. Especially if you’ve blown cooldowns in that fight. If you can have 2-3 people jump you and survive without cooldowns, then that class would be OP, not the thief.

Even when a thief gets focused, they typically blow 2 cooldowns to escape.

I never made the claim that I was leet enough to handle 2-3 people (of equal skill) while fighting like that. If we’re having this whole argument on the fact that you can lose against 1v2+ burst people attacking you, burst (and auto attacks) across all classes would have to be severely reduced in damage.

Oh … 1 or 2 people is peachy with a bomb engi – you run a lot It’s just that you have to see where they’re headed, how far they are behind and where you can get out of LoS again … so a “Hello there!” visit from a thief is a bit of problem where even a normal 3rd player wouldn’t be as long as I can see them and choose my pathing (unless, of course, they come directly from where I am headed but this is a rare occurence like when deeply in enemy territory)

Mesmers are another issue but they usually have a problem to land the full attack on a running Engi so they’re better survivable, even if they approach from stealth.

HtFde.3856:

Maugetarr.6823:

HtFde.3856:

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Wait, you’re already fighting versus one or two people so a burst class comes in and finishes you. That would happen with virtually any group of 2 or 3 that decided to focus you down. Especially if you’ve blown cooldowns in that fight. If you can have 2-3 people jump you and survive without cooldowns, then that class would be OP, not the thief.

Even when a thief gets focused, they typically blow 2 cooldowns to escape.

I never made the claim that I was leet enough to handle 2-3 people (of equal skill) while fighting like that. If we’re having this whole argument on the fact that you can lose against 1v2+ burst people attacking you, burst (and auto attacks) across all classes would have to be severely reduced in damage.

Oh … 1 or 2 people is peachy with a bomb engi – you run a lot It’s just that you have to see where they’re headed, how far they are behind and where you can get out of LoS again … so a “Hello there!” visit from a thief is a bit of problem where even a normal 3rd player wouldn’t be as long as I can see them and choose my pathing (unless, of course, they come directly from where I am headed but this is a rare occurence like when deeply in enemy territory)

Mesmers are another issue but they usually have a problem to land the full attack on a running Engi so they’re better survivable, even if they approach from stealth.

…..Maybe we should take a look at the survivability of bomb engi then, hmm? Or maybe, just maybe, thief was supposed relegated to single target spike/harassment in group battles where builds have a peachy time surviving up to 3 people attacking them simultaneously.

There were some rifle-warriors in wvw because of the latest patch. At least on Drakkar.
Man, Dzagonur must be emptier than I thought (it was empty when I left it a year ago).

“Mesmers are another issue but they usually have a problem to land the full attack on a running Engi so they’re better survivable, even if they approach from stealth.”
What the hell of mesmers are on your matchups? There must be somthing like skill to miss a shatter on a “RUNNING” (dodging?) player O.o
D/P with shadowarts is one thing, stealth by itself something completely different.
I like that with shadowstep and give it that what stealth has right now a lot, but I like the vanish/appear feeling, too. Just not that much nowadays…

:/ The OP also forgot to mention somewhere in the end for those that don’t like stealth to please wait, there will be nerfs.

Zero Day.2594:

:/ The OP also forgot to mention somewhere in the end for those that don’t like stealth to please wait, there will be nerfs.

Zero Day; you know there will not be nerfs until arena net is serious about make thief challenge class. Look example; 2 year; so many player tell arena net problem about thief and here is result; thief is still problem. Example; if car always have same problem when take to car mechanic; do you not have reason to complain and not be happy?

They need to nerf thieves. Their escape mechanisms are too powerfull. Steal with 4 sec daze every 35 or less sec ?…what to says bout that. I dont even want to talk about HS and BS dmg on 3.2 k armor (9k+). BS must be nerfed to 1 1/4s cast to be able to dodge. Too much freedom for easy OP class. Some attacks must cost more intitative 4 or 5. Class is just easy and dull.

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

:/ The OP also forgot to mention somewhere in the end for those that don’t like stealth to please wait, there will be nerfs.

Zero Day; you know there will not be nerfs until arena net is serious about make thief challenge class. Look example; 2 year; so many player tell arena net problem about thief and here is result; thief is still problem. Example; if car always have same problem when take to car mechanic; do you not have reason to complain and not be happy?

Yeah you’re right, and the reveal debuff was always 4 seconds in sPvP, and choking gas caused you to get revealed since day 1 of the release.

A car mechanic just needs to fix my car, he doesn’t get kittened at by other people if my car goes faster/runs better than theirs.

Ragnarox.9601:

They need to nerf thieves. Their escape mechanisms are too powerfull. Steal with 4 sec daze every 35 or less sec ?…what to says bout that. I dont even want to talk about HS and BS dmg on 3.2 k armor (9k+). BS must be nerfed to 1 1/4s cast to be able to dodge. Too much freedom for easy OP class. Some attacks must cost more intitative 4 or 5. Class is just easy and dull.

Please tell me you wanted to be ironic here. Otherweise —→ troll incoming
Steal →full<- traited has ca 21sec cd and 1sec daze….
to do that damage on him you need to be squishy…
some cost more that 4or5…

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

:/ The OP also forgot to mention somewhere in the end for those that don’t like stealth to please wait, there will be nerfs.

Zero Day; you know there will not be nerfs until arena net is serious about make thief challenge class. Look example; 2 year; so many player tell arena net problem about thief and here is result; thief is still problem. Example; if car always have same problem when take to car mechanic; do you not have reason to complain and not be happy?

Again, the thief doesn’t need nerfs, it is your inexperience at dealing with thieves.

Here’s a montage of counterbursting them:

Coronit.9432:

Please tell me you wanted to be ironic here. Otherweise —-> troll incoming
Steal ->full<- traited has ca 21sec cd and 1sec daze….
to do that damage on him you need to be squishy…
some cost more that 4or5…

Its not ironic..or you dont know your class..its 4sec.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mace_Head_Crack
they dont cost 4,5.
perma dodge, perma stealth, perma blind you guys have the best stuff that need to be toned down.

Ragnarox.9601:

They need to nerf thieves. Their escape mechanisms are too powerfull. Steal with 4 sec daze every 35 or less sec ?…what to says bout that. I dont even want to talk about HS and BS dmg on 3.2 k armor (9k+). BS must be nerfed to 1 1/4s cast to be able to dodge. Too much freedom for easy OP class. Some attacks must cost more intitative 4 or 5. Class is just easy and dull.

Why don’t you make a competitive team, and go make some money using the thief. They’re easy right? You should have no problem being top-notch then! Why not put that to use and earn some money spare time?

“But Zero Day, there ARE competitive teams that have thieves” – Are you in them? Are you that thief?

Ragnarox.9601:

Its not ironic..or you dont know your class..its 4sec.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mace_Head_Crack
they dont cost 4,5.

Wow, now I only need to find an enemy of who I can steal it – you don’t seem to know our class.

Maugetarr.6823:

HtFde.3856:

Maugetarr.6823:

HtFde.3856:

I kinda have come to dread statements like “you can see the animation winding up” – in sPVP maybe – in WvW when yur’re fighting against 1 or 2 opponents … you might be leet enough to fight and still maintain a 360° awareness – I don’t. So I cannot see the thief doing his oh so obvious animation while I try to deal with an enraged guardian, warrior or whatever … blame it on me then …

Wait, you’re already fighting versus one or two people so a burst class comes in and finishes you. That would happen with virtually any group of 2 or 3 that decided to focus you down. Especially if you’ve blown cooldowns in that fight. If you can have 2-3 people jump you and survive without cooldowns, then that class would be OP, not the thief.

Even when a thief gets focused, they typically blow 2 cooldowns to escape.

I never made the claim that I was leet enough to handle 2-3 people (of equal skill) while fighting like that. If we’re having this whole argument on the fact that you can lose against 1v2+ burst people attacking you, burst (and auto attacks) across all classes would have to be severely reduced in damage.

Oh … 1 or 2 people is peachy with a bomb engi – you run a lot It’s just that you have to see where they’re headed, how far they are behind and where you can get out of LoS again … so a “Hello there!” visit from a thief is a bit of problem where even a normal 3rd player wouldn’t be as long as I can see them and choose my pathing (unless, of course, they come directly from where I am headed but this is a rare occurence like when deeply in enemy territory)

Mesmers are another issue but they usually have a problem to land the full attack on a running Engi so they’re better survivable, even if they approach from stealth.

…..Maybe we should take a look at the survivability of bomb engi then, hmm? Or maybe, just maybe, thief was supposed relegated to single target spike/harassment in group battles where builds have a peachy time surviving up to 3 people attacking them simultaneously.

Tsk – you can do the same with any class that can “drop” the damage skills like a necro or a trap ranger. You just gotta run, run, run, evade – use the terrain to your advantage. If you stand still or engage in open and flat terrain you’re dead unless you run away.

Ragnarox.9601:

Coronit.9432:

Please tell me you wanted to be ironic here. Otherweise —-> troll incoming
Steal ->full<- traited has ca 21sec cd and 1sec daze….
to do that damage on him you need to be squishy…
some cost more that 4or5…

Its not ironic..or you dont know your class..its 4sec.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mace_Head_Crack
they dont cost 4,5.
perma dodge, perma stealth, perma blind you guys have the best stuff that need to be toned down.

First you consider thief escape ability to high… and give that as example. A stun you get from a guard AFTERsteal successfully hits. Then again you have to success in hitting the enemy with it. The daze from sleight of hand is unrelated to that.
Then, how Jana said, you don´t have it ready always, because you get it from a guard. What if there isn´t a guard around and you want that skill? What if you want “consume plasma” instead fighting against guard but there isn´t a mesmer around.
What the hell you want to achieve with that unnecessary statement. You got into a stunlock from a thief having “stolen” the skill, waited 21sec (cause traited) and made the – skillstun+stealstun+skillstun+maybe sword sneakstun – combo? In that case l2p and adapt, there are stunbreaker, blocks, invuln, stabi, etc… seriously…
The skills you get “can” counter the enemy if you use them correctly and get your steal in.

And now follow what Zero Day (awesome name) said…

Coronit.9432:

There were some rifle-warriors in wvw because of the latest patch. At least on Drakkar.
Man, Dzagonur must be emptier than I thought (it was empty when I left it a year ago).

It’s not a matter of how full or empty Dzagonur is but what your opponents throw at you because rifle warriors on Dzagonur don’t attack me … and the opponent that fields a lot more players than Vabbi, Whiteside, had this thief fetish …

Coronit.9432:

What the hell of mesmers are on your matchups? There must be somthing like skill to miss a shatter on a “RUNNING” (dodging?) player O.o

Do you play a shatter mesmer? If you run S/P you usually know what’s up when the bullet hits you and have 1 second to react before things go boom. Apart from that it’s pretty essential that all 3 clones and the mesmer are in range when they’re shattered. If you run with the 33% movement boost that almost all Engineers have a 100% uptime of the clones or the mesmer are usually a bit away from you and need to move a tad before they’re “in range” + time to see the clones/phantasms and use wrench kit 4 or use rocket boots. And quite often the mesmer runs into one of my dropped bombs – depending a bit on what bomb that is that often saves me.

When playing a Memser I usually do not go after Engineers when they’re in kiting mode. Too much effort to get close enough and usually much easier targets around (0% movement speed vs 33% movement speed is a pain and I don’t blow blink for that)

Ragnarox.9601:

Coronit.9432:

Please tell me you wanted to be ironic here. Otherweise —-> troll incoming
Steal ->full<- traited has ca 21sec cd and 1sec daze….
to do that damage on him you need to be squishy…
some cost more that 4or5…

Its not ironic..or you dont know your class..its 4sec.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mace_Head_Crack
they dont cost 4,5.
perma dodge, perma stealth, perma blind you guys have the best stuff that need to be toned down.

Do you really think that we can have access to all that permanent damage mitigation in one build? You don’t even know what you’re talking about you stupid stupid stupid noob. I’m not even going to correct you

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out. Stealth now is capped at 1 second, but grants 100% damage reflection. Backstab has an internal cd of 120 seconds, but executes anyone below 75% hp, bypassing blocks, invulnerability and even the downed state. Blinds have their duration reduced by 90% but cause those suffering from them to have their entire screen go black till the blind is gone. All evades on thieves have their invulnerability duration cut by 95% but the cast time stays the same, but evading into someone who doesn’t have stability knocks them down for 3 seconds.

Necrotize.2974:

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out.

Isn’t that what’s already happening?

My opinions on stealth are most certainly mixed. On one hand, I play a D/D thief so I understand what it’s like from a thief’s perspective and how we rely upon it (depending on the build of course), but at the same time, I play other classes too so I also understand how irritating it is for them. I understand how to think like a thief and I’m able to expect what they do, so on one hand it’s fine since it’s beyond predictable, but on the other hand it allows a thief to play the fight their way. All in all, I think stealth is perfectly fine. If I get killed by a thief, I accept the fact that I got outplayed and move on.
I think we also need to think about how difficult it is to balance the thief class. Thief is harder to balance simply because of the way it works: initiative. Initiative is kind of a double edged blade in that it allows for spamming, but at the same time that spamming leaves the thief vulnerable. It requires generally more management than CDs on other classes. Now at the same time, if you increase the initiative cost of a skill by even 1, you risk completely throwing any existing balance out of whack. For me as a thief at least, what this initiative means is that if I am going to be squishy what-so-ever I essentially need stealth since it is not only my only unique defense as a class, but it also allows me to have a rotation if you will and be able to do damage and not get killed. I guess what I’m saying is that if we’re going to talk about balancing thief anymore I really think we really need to evaluate the thief class as a WHOLE- all of its mechanics and playing styles included.

Jana.6831:

Necrotize.2974:

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out.

Isn’t that what’s already happening?

Maybe it just needs to happen more until we hit that sweet spot? Just go into the damage modifiers for all the skills and randomly add in "0"’s and “.”’s making some skills hit like wet noodles and others hit like wet noodles filled with cement.

Necrotize.2974:

Jana.6831:

Necrotize.2974:

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out.

Isn’t that what’s already happening?

Maybe it just needs to happen more until we hit that sweet spot? Just go into the damage modifiers for all the skills and randomly add in "0"’s and “.”’s making some skills hit like wet noodles and others hit like wet noodles filled with cement.

Well, if skills 1 and 2 hit like a wet noodle while skills 3 and 4 hit like a wet noodle with cement and lastly skill five hits like half a wet cement noodle…. We will have balance!

:D I feel like I should be on the balancing team! My noodle skills seem sharp.

Zero Day.2594:

Necrotize.2974:

Jana.6831:

Necrotize.2974:

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out.

Isn’t that what’s already happening?

Maybe it just needs to happen more until we hit that sweet spot? Just go into the damage modifiers for all the skills and randomly add in "0"’s and “.”’s making some skills hit like wet noodles and others hit like wet noodles filled with cement.

Well, if skills 1 and 2 hit like a wet noodle while skills 3 and 4 hit like a wet noodle with cement and lastly skill five hits like half a wet cement noodle…. We will have balance!

:D I feel like I should be on the balancing team! My noodle skills seem sharp.

Please no noodle skill…
Noodle-skill
Be aware of the muscles our thieves will get and the QQ following because of that.

Coronit.9432:

Zero Day.2594:

Necrotize.2974:

Jana.6831:

Necrotize.2974:

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out.

Isn’t that what’s already happening?

Maybe it just needs to happen more until we hit that sweet spot? Just go into the damage modifiers for all the skills and randomly add in "0"’s and “.”’s making some skills hit like wet noodles and others hit like wet noodles filled with cement.

Well, if skills 1 and 2 hit like a wet noodle while skills 3 and 4 hit like a wet noodle with cement and lastly skill five hits like half a wet cement noodle…. We will have balance!

:D I feel like I should be on the balancing team! My noodle skills seem sharp.

Please no noodle skill…
Noodle-skill
Be aware of the muscles our thieves will get and the QQ following because of that.

you make good joke and i find video funny; i laugh. But after laugh; problem is still here. Again, there is nothing wrong to be funny; it is wrong to pretend thief class have no problem. Arena net need to take thief class problem serious to make game fun and challenge; expansion is not answer, serious action is answer.

Laugh and joke will not fix anything but make problem worse. Seriousness is solution for problem; not joke; 1 more year-2015 of joke is not ok and will make game worse and will make more player find other game company who take game and problem serious. No More; 1 more Year of thief problem!!!

DarkSyze.8627:

Coronit.9432:

Zero Day.2594:

Necrotize.2974:

Jana.6831:

Necrotize.2974:

Why not just nerf and buff wildly in both directions and hope it works out.

Isn’t that what’s already happening?

Maybe it just needs to happen more until we hit that sweet spot? Just go into the damage modifiers for all the skills and randomly add in "0"’s and “.”’s making some skills hit like wet noodles and others hit like wet noodles filled with cement.

Well, if skills 1 and 2 hit like a wet noodle while skills 3 and 4 hit like a wet noodle with cement and lastly skill five hits like half a wet cement noodle…. We will have balance!

:D I feel like I should be on the balancing team! My noodle skills seem sharp.

Please no noodle skill…
Noodle-skill
Be aware of the muscles our thieves will get and the QQ following because of that.

you make good joke and i find video funny; i laugh. But after laugh; problem is still here. Again, there is nothing wrong to be funny; it is wrong to pretend thief class have no problem. Arena net need to take thief class problem serious to make game fun and challenge; expansion is not answer, serious action is answer.

Laugh and joke will not fix anything but make problem worse. Seriousness is solution for problem; not joke; 1 more year-2015 of joke is not ok and will make game worse and will make more player find other game company who take game and problem serious. No More; 1 more Year of thief problem!!!

Did you watch the counter-bursting video? The solution already exists.

Exactly, solutions exist.
Otherwise there are problems with thieves to deal with, like you have to deal with other classes. Personally I think that D/P-SA is far to forgiving and players are very carried by it. Does it make stealth being a boring machanic by itself? I think not, it makes combat more interesting. The idea of assassins vanishing into shadow/stealth and being a threat all the time is great and quickly distinguish between bad and good players. I don´t hear players playing as thieves screaming in teamspeak that much under pressure as other classes (personal feeling). You want a boring game without extremely divergent mechanics then you can play "
scissors stone paper". You can´t get it more balanced and easy… xD
I like to fight and enter fight in disatvantage to me far more then a lot of friends. But even I know when to retreat. What is wrong when I get to escape from 3 players, the game mechanic or their skill? Its not that easy to differentiate it. So a lot of players come here to say X is OP instead of making their thoughts on what happened correctly. On some builds thieves have to play perfectly to kill others, other builds are much more easy to play but useless for example in pvp. If you nerf mobility, you will see alot more S/D acro thieves, nerfing D/P will force players into S/D, nerfing SA will heavily put D/D under pressure so that players would switch to D/P or S/D most likely. QQ would just transfer to anoter aspect.
Others are resetting and healing to its fullest when they didn´t even reached 50% health. You want to hear numbers of how many times a warrior ran away in 1vs1 just to get ooc, recover full health, just to come back immediatly then?

Dear thieves,

Thnx for all the bags.
<3 U all.

Sincerely
Ranger Main

I have to disagree. Stealth is way OP with certain builds. There is 1 reason why.

Losing target.

The stealthed player can keep target and apply damage at will. The non-stealthed player must first acquire the target and then perform an attack. The problem here being that the time to restealth along with lag causes the stealther to essentially be untouchable.

Solutions are many. My suggestion is to make both thief stealth and stealth block longer. This means more escape opportunity and more time out of stealth. Pluses and minuses, but at least the enemy has had a chance to hit you.

Instead of stealth what if we were visible but invulnerable would you prefer that? I doubt it would work in your favor lol

Skeletor.9360:

I have to disagree. Stealth is way OP with certain builds. There is 1 reason why.

Losing target.

The stealthed player can keep target and apply damage at will. The non-stealthed player must first acquire the target and then perform an attack. The problem here being that the time to restealth along with lag causes the stealther to essentially be untouchable.

Solutions are many. My suggestion is to make both thief stealth and stealth block longer. This means more escape opportunity and more time out of stealth. Pluses and minuses, but at least the enemy has had a chance to hit you.

You can still hit and damage stealthed players. Unless you are a mesmer or a ranger, your statement doesn’t apply. And even then are there only a few skills that actually require a target. The rest can be aimed using the Right Mouse button.