Guild Wars 2

One hard counter to “stealth” in this game is suppose to be using auto attacks and AoE in your area. One problem with this is that if hit a stealth person you don’t get any indication of it. So basically person could be swinging in opposite direction of thief or even hitting him they will never know unless get lucky and down the thief. A “counter” to something is not really a counter if it is just you trying to get lucky. What needs to be done is that numbers should pop up when hitting a player in stealth just like when hit them out of stealth. Then maybe there would be less moaning about how stealth is overpowered.

If you hit a thief with auto attacks you’ll start doing you melee combo instead of the first hit. Another trick is to have your chat set to combat log as it’ll update if you hit. The rest comes down to instinct and common sense.

Exactly what Dual said… If you hit someone in stealth with auto you will do a combo.

L2P maybe ?

Dual.8953:

The rest comes down to instinct and common sense.

Of course applying Cripple, Chill or Immobilise during the 3 seconds they’re normally visible helps.

Also, playing a thief for a bit works wonders, as you get a bit of knowledge about the average movement patterns of a Stealthed Thief vs someone auto-attacking at them.

- CC is a counter to mobility
- Stability is a counter to CC
- Healing is a counter to damage
- Condition removal is a counter to conditions

But Auto Attacks/ AOE is in no way a counter to stealth. Sure you can deal damage to stealthed thieves but its not a counter because you cannot negate stealth.

Besides grouping with your enemy (lol) there’s no counter to stealth. Sry bro!

You don’t need to counter stealth if yo can do damage, in fact yo don’t need counters at all, in the end it’s all about making the red bubbles go empty. All the stuff about CC and all is just because CC prevents you from depleting bubbles, or enable others to deplete yours, but it is still essentially about the bubbles.

I liked the red bars better, it’s easier to write about red bars going up then filling up bubbles.

Moddo.7105:

One hard counter to “stealth” in this game is suppose to be using auto attacks and AoE in your area. One problem with this is that if hit a stealth person you don’t get any indication of it. So basically person could be swinging in opposite direction of thief or even hitting him they will never know unless get lucky and down the thief. A “counter” to something is not really a counter if it is just you trying to get lucky. What needs to be done is that numbers should pop up when hitting a player in stealth just like when hit them out of stealth. Then maybe there would be less moaning about how stealth is overpowered.

First and foremost, no one ever said auto attacks or aoe is a ‘COUNTER’ to stealth. Second, why does hitting someone in stealth have to reveal them? Isn’t it enough that your getting lucky and hitting something you can’t see in the first place? IF the mechanics would change as you would want them to, then all stealth skills would be pointless in this game. There are people getting paid to think about these things, stop hurting your brain over it.

=)…

Dual.8953:

If you hit a thief with auto attacks you’ll start doing you melee combo instead of the first hit. Another trick is to have your chat set to combat log as it’ll update if you hit. The rest comes down to instinct and common sense.

Exactly this. I down thieves in stealth all the time. I love it when they wait until the last minute and try to stealth to run away, I know that means I just need to hang out to finish them once they appear. Once you learn to predict peoples movements they are sitting ducks. The hard ones are the unpredictable thieves and they should be rewarded for their smart play not nerfed because the opponent isn’t playing smart.

Oh and this is coming from a thief alt not main so I’m not trying to protect my beloved class. I have around 800 hours played and maybe 50 of that on my thief at most. Probably even less since I leveled it with crafting in about 10 hours.

CC is the counter to thieves. If you can get them knocked down, rooted, stunned, etc then they are easy kills MOST of the time. Also, if you see them use Shadow Refuge…then AOE it and use abilities that bump them out of it. If you knock a thief out of SR early you usually get the kill, they drop it for a reason (they need stealth/heals) and if you knock them out of it they loose both.

One word: warrior with one-hand sword! I used to love it in sPvP with shield and longbow offhand. I rolled over thiefs with f1 on sword because they can’t get away…at least some won’t. but in general yes stuns are the best thing to drop a thief. Had one warrior stomp me(the skill, not the move to finish someone off) right after I stealthed on him with CnD…and had no stun breakers. Basicly had to restealth after I got back up but that is just one example…or fear with necro CAN be helpful when he stealthes right infront of you.
Sometimes the issue with stuns is that you have to HIT the thief with your stun and not all are AoE/on very high cooldown.

Actually there is a subtile animation when you hit a stealthy target.
If you your paing attention you will see a black shadowy smoke circuling around the stealthed target when you hit him. It’s the same effect as when a thief shadowsteps but just the smoke (no thief in the middle).

It is subtile but it’s there if you pay attention!

swinsk.6410:

Exactly what Dual said… If you hit someone in stealth with auto you will do a combo.

L2P maybe ?

I have ever class at 80(except Guardian) and play them all, Thief/Eng more than others
I know how to play a thief. And maybe you should L2P other classes before you ever use L2P again. Because not all classes have a combo in the auto attack chain. So to you I say L2NotoveruseL2P replies like every other poser on the forums.

Moddo.7105:

swinsk.6410:

Exactly what Dual said… If you hit someone in stealth with auto you will do a combo.

L2P maybe ?

I have ever class at 80(except Guardian) and play them all, Thief/Eng more than others
I know how to play a thief. And maybe you should L2P other classes before you ever use L2P again. Because not all classes have a combo in the auto attack chain. So to you I say L2NotoveruseL2P replies like every other poser on the forums.

They do all have combat logs though. In any case, when a melee thief stealths, his or her ideal target is your back, so common sense dictates, ready yourself to react to surprise back attacks. When a P/D stealths, be ready to evade, you’ll avoid most of the sneak attack, and then you can kite them to avoid letting them CnD again.

Going to break it down. Most stealth skills last 3-4 seconds during which time you can dodge and let it run out or swing away until you see your combo. Now much like my arguments to why most people cant beat DD ele its the same with thief. Most players are too lazy or too pew pew minded to cc. Knockdowns being particularly strong. Why you ask? Well some stealth builds cleanse conditions no stealth breaks a knock down ( that’s what teleports are for). Wide area knock downs like the ones guardian and warrior can keep up with hammer ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer) can keep a thief CC’d through the entirety of stealth. Most dps thieves have no counter to this (S/D can hard counter the cc http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Strike and S/P to a lesser extent due to play style.) Smaller area CC ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backdraft_ , http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake, etc) can do the same thing just require better timing.

Another thing is you can dodge http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cloak_and_Dagger pretty easily if it not the initial (Steal + C&D) its got a huge animations that pretty easy to spot and a high initiative cost. Builds like PD and DD back stab rely on this skill dodge it twice and they are blowing cool downs. All the other stealth skills have relatively long cds. (Note: good players will either spam aoe in http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Refuge or attempt to knock the thief out of the area thus stopping the long lasting stealth from applying.) Familiarize yourself with skills that stealth not just thieves and you’ll learn ow to counter stealth on any class (some help http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth.)

Please remember stealth does not make you invulnerable spam skills and don’t let up. Often I beat other thieves on my thief by simply switch to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shortbow and spamming 4 and 2. AOEing around yourself if you have the dps and skills to do will leave many thieves in the situation that engaging you could mean certain death before they get you. SB for thief, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Traps for ranger, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Kit for engi, DD (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger) in general for ele, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark for necro, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shatter clone (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clone) heavy for Mesmer (they linger through stealth), http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword /hammer and axe #5 (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Axe) for warrior, and guardians hammer and GS can all be used in this way. Every class has access to some sort of AOE skill that can be placed at their location (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bomb_Kit http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Longbow and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Staff) every class have these type skills there is no excuse if you don’t use them.

Strictly speaking this is a L2P issue no more no less. You should receive no sympathy if you run glass cannon and get your kitten rocked by a thief doing the same thing. The game should not tailor itself to your lack of knowledge or skill. Before coming and kittening realize the tools to counter any fricking thing in the game are already in the game if you refuse to use them what the hell should anyone care?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_back to push out of refuge or away from you.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down / http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun to cc to prevent stealth or CC though its duration. AOE theirs a lot of it PBAOE or ground targeted doesn’t matter if you know how use it its hard counter to melee thief read some http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aoe. Please consider http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize. thief builds that do not have strong condition removal ie http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace can be put in dire straits by simply killing some part of their chain.

TLDR read learn something play better or quit your kittening and get off thief forums full if whine.

Edit: more link = more info

Dual.8953:

Moddo.7105:

swinsk.6410:

Exactly what Dual said… If you hit someone in stealth with auto you will do a combo.

L2P maybe ?

I have ever class at 80(except Guardian) and play them all, Thief/Eng more than others
I know how to play a thief. And maybe you should L2P other classes before you ever use L2P again. Because not all classes have a combo in the auto attack chain. So to you I say L2NotoveruseL2P replies like every other poser on the forums.

They do all have combat logs though. In any case, when a melee thief stealths, his or her ideal target is your back, so common sense dictates, ready yourself to react to surprise back attacks. When a P/D stealths, be ready to evade, you’ll avoid most of the sneak attack, and then you can kite them to avoid letting them CnD again.

What a horrible design, so while trying to combat a thief you’re supposed to keep looking at your combat log on the off chance you’ll hit him? That’s just silly. Sure it works but its a silly design.

When I play a scepter dagger build on my elementalist my auto attacks need a target and I can’t swtich once the thief engages. So basically I’m screwed.

So I have to sit there and wait until he hits me, he won’t unstealth unless he causes damage then I can autoattack for the few seconds he is revealed. My damaging spell ‘Arc lightning’ builds up in damage so it tickles him before he re-stealths and unleashes another 3k hit.

with blackpowder +heartseeker they can restealth every 6 seconds. So really they can perma stealth has much as they like.

gg Anet, nice class design. Perhaps they expect every elementalist to go D/D? that’s boring.

Thobek.1730:

Dual.8953:

Moddo.7105:

swinsk.6410:

Exactly what Dual said… If you hit someone in stealth with auto you will do a combo.

L2P maybe ?

I have ever class at 80(except Guardian) and play them all, Thief/Eng more than others
I know how to play a thief. And maybe you should L2P other classes before you ever use L2P again. Because not all classes have a combo in the auto attack chain. So to you I say L2NotoveruseL2P replies like every other poser on the forums.

They do all have combat logs though. In any case, when a melee thief stealths, his or her ideal target is your back, so common sense dictates, ready yourself to react to surprise back attacks. When a P/D stealths, be ready to evade, you’ll avoid most of the sneak attack, and then you can kite them to avoid letting them CnD again.

What a horrible design, so while trying to combat a thief you’re supposed to keep looking at your combat log on the off chance you’ll hit him? That’s just silly. Sure it works but its a silly design.

When I play a scepter dagger build on my elementalist my auto attacks need a target and I can’t swtich once the thief engages. So basically I’m screwed.

So I have to sit there and wait until he hits me, he won’t unstealth unless he causes damage then I can autoattack for the few seconds he is revealed. My damaging spell ‘Arc lightning’ builds up in damage so it tickles him before he re-stealths and unleashes another 3k hit.

with blackpowder +heartseeker they can restealth every 6 seconds. So really they can perma stealth has much as they like.

gg Anet, nice class design. Perhaps they expect every elementalist to go D/D? that’s boring.

Air autoattack with the scepter lasts most of the duration of stealth and will point out the location of the thief. With a dagger offhand, you could use this indication for upstart or any if the other control skills or be set up to hit the thief as soon as he comes out of stealth. Chipping away at the P/D using arc lightning will infuriate thieves more than you know as it negates their primary defensive mechanic while damaging them in the process.

Maugetarr.6823:

Air autoattack with the scepter lasts most of the duration of stealth and will point out the location of the thief.

Is this true? Air autoattack on the scepter will still hit a stealthed thief? it hits like a wet noodle so if it actually homes in on a stealthed player that would be great but I have yet to test this out.

I have my doubts it will work though… just saying.

Thobek.1730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Air autoattack with the scepter lasts most of the duration of stealth and will point out the location of the thief.

Is this true? Air autoattack on the scepter will still hit a stealthed thief? it hits like a wet noodle so if it actually homes in on a stealthed player that would be great but I have yet to test this out.

I have my doubts it will work though… just saying.

It works of the premise that stealthing doesn’t break channels, so if they stealth after you’ve started, the channel will follow through. Wonder if Anet would ever up the current on that attack.