Guild Wars 2

I spent some time playing my thief over the weekend and noticed multiple enemies will ignore stealth and still atacck and hit you while in stealth. Fire imps being one of these creatures but i noticed it in a few other range attack enemies including some skill point enemies.

So i have to ask, whats the point of having stealth when you arnt really stealth and some mobs can still hit you?

Lecter.7486:

Well it could be to offset the fact that you don’t appear on ones screen when you come out of invis turning your “3” secs in between disappearing into 1 lol. I really don’t know about what your asking but it is irritating getting killed by an invisible target so no one feels bad for you.

First, QQ moar. He is talking about PvE targets, not your sorry kitten

Second, no one wants to hear you cry over a thief crushing you in WvWvW.

OP, the stealth mechanic has changed a bit. Instead of aggro dropping completely, it essentially pauses aggro so the mob doesn’t reset. So when you come back out of stealth, the mob is still going to go for you. This is my understanding on why they changed it because enemies were resetting. Undoubtedly for boss fights, it’s rather irritating if you drop SR on your group and the boss resets.

Some people like the change (I do) and others do not. There are some other threads floating around this forum discussing the matter.

As for the mobs still hitting you in stealth, were they using a channeled ability? Channels go right through our stealth like a laser guided missile. I’ve had a few times were I thought a mob shouldn’t be able to hit me but did anyways. It’s been acting strange lately.

I just read that sorry. Look I’m run n gun so I don’t expect to win but I was doing research
and descovered that what I thought was a game mechanic was really an exploit/bug. Sorry for the improper placement of that I just want it to get some attention from the devs. In pve that is bs

Also, no one said anything about crushing.

It is Always a good idea to atleast glance at patch notes once in awhile. You can find them in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news And big patches get a thread while smaller ones after/relating to it get a post in that thread. This way you will not get surprised and then post on forums and then getting someone to tell you to read the patch notes. :-)

Oh im aware of the patch notes and the changes to stealth, and i like them, now when im fighting a skill point alone with my thief and i hit stealth to heal/change posistions the kitten boss doesnt heal while im right beside him still but stealthed.

Changes are a step in the right direction IMO.

But what i was referring to in the OP is getting hit while in stealth by regular mobs that shouldnt be able to see you.

One of my guild mates had a great idea about this though, since i noticed this with ranged attacks only his theory was that any range attacks launched while not stealthed but not yet landed when you are stealthed will still hit you after you stealth. I know for a fact that they would miss pre patch but perhaps this is a bug/glitch added with the new stealth rules.

I will do some more testing over my days off and will update this post with my findings.

Some people like this change and some do not. I don’t personally, I never had an issue with things resetting, and I liked the fact that I could, if I wanted, actually drop aggro. And that is what I used stealth for. Now, I have 1 less option. Just limits things and makes it less interesting for me.

Now after toying with it for a few days, I just stopped using stealth. Some of the fun is gone for me, while others will like it more.

So, for me it is not the “thief” anymore really, it is something else. Still fun but much less so. It stands out less from my other toons now and I actually started using my other toons more.

Will be a while before I decide on a new build and weapons I suppose, when I find what seems suitable.

“One of my guild mates had a great idea about this though, since i noticed this with ranged attacks only his theory was that any range attacks launched while not stealthed but not yet landed when you are stealthed will still hit you after you stealth. I know for a fact that they would miss pre patch but perhaps this is a bug/glitch added with the new stealth rules.”

This was always the case. A flamethrower mob would even turn and burn you while you moved around it in stealth. It’s bad but there are different problems with the mechanics if this doesn’t happen too.

Ok after some more testing it seems guild mate was correct. If ranged attack is launched at you it will hit you not matter what 100%. Even if you stealth .01 sec after attack is launched and move 100-200 feet from where you were when arrow was launched while it is in the air before it lands it will still hit you. This is completly kitten how the hell do the mobs know where to aim when they cant see you move.

Starting to think about dropping stealth and going with another build now or dropping thief entirely, not much point when the main ability is broken.

I know pre patch range attack would miss after you stealth because it would also remove all agro and take enemy out of combat(most that is i never enounterd the flamethrower mentioned above)

This just is broken when enemies can see the future and know where to aim there bow and arrow seconds into the future at a target they cant friggen see.

It’s been this way since launch.

Columba.9730:

It’s been this way since launch.

That makes it a worse thing not better that its been broken that long.

It is not just hitting targets after stealth. I see a lot of projectiles/ranged attacks “correct” their trajectory mid flight. The final LoS check must have quite a bit of forgiveness built in.

I disagree. My bow has plenty of bugs that cause 30% of the shots to miss.

Lets think about our flamethrower mob who has started burning people before you into stealth. Does he (a) stop burning (b) burn where he thinks you are © follow and burn you?

a) Stealth becomes an interrupt. Other targets could be in the aoe and they become protected by your stealth. This is bad.
b) Stealth now lets mobs waste their attacks firing into empty air when they should be attacking other enemies. This is bad and gives stealth too much advantage.
c) Bad for thieves but we understand stealth, we know it doesn’t interrupt attacks, we deal with it.

Stooperdale.3560:

Lets think about our flamethrower mob who has started burning people before you into stealth. Does he (a) stop burning (b) burn where he thinks you are © follow and burn you?

a) Stealth becomes an interrupt. Other targets could be in the aoe and they become protected by your stealth. This is bad.
b) Stealth now lets mobs waste their attacks firing into empty air when they should be attacking other enemies. This is bad and gives stealth too much advantage.
c) Bad for thieves but we understand stealth, we know it doesn’t interrupt attacks, we deal with it.

Just cut the BS. There is a huge difference between continuing an attack and homing a channel for the entire duration of stealth. I don’t expect mobs/players to stop doing whatever they’re doing as soon as I stealth, but I do expect them to not auto-target me and continue to follow me with their attack as I frantically try to avoid it in stealth.

B should happen with some margin of error added in for mobs. Players would be “on their own” and need to aim the attack where they think the stealthed target is.

Okamakiri.8746:

Just cut the BS. There is a huge difference between continuing an attack and homing a channel for the entire duration of stealth. I don’t expect mobs/players to stop doing whatever they’re doing as soon as I stealth, but I do expect them to not auto-target me and continue to follow me with their attack as I frantically try to avoid it in stealth.

Well yes you are expecting mobs to continue whatever they are doing while you walk around them in stealth and backstab them. Don’t try to avoid continuous attacks with stealth. Don’t blind them as that only prevents one lick of damage. Evading round them will probably only miss a couple of licks as well. Aegis will prevent just one lick of damage. Learn to play and use an interrupt.

Stooperdale.3560:

Okamakiri.8746:

Just cut the BS. There is a huge difference between continuing an attack and homing a channel for the entire duration of stealth. I don’t expect mobs/players to stop doing whatever they’re doing as soon as I stealth, but I do expect them to not auto-target me and continue to follow me with their attack as I frantically try to avoid it in stealth.

Well yes you are expecting mobs to continue whatever they are doing while you walk around them in stealth and backstab them. Don’t try to avoid continuous attacks with stealth. Don’t blind them as that only prevents one lick of damage. Evading round them will probably only miss a couple of licks as well. Aegis will prevent just one lick of damage. Learn to play and use an interrupt.

Don’t be obtuse. Again, there’s a huge difference between 1) continuing your swing in the direction where you last saw someone expecting them to be there, and 2) turning 180 degrees mid-swing to attack someone that’s suppose to be invisible. Only a Thief hater and/or someone that’s never played the class would defend such a broken mechanic.

P.S. If you “learned to play”, you would know that D/D has no interrupt.

Okamakiri.8746:

Stooperdale.3560:

Okamakiri.8746:

Just cut the BS. There is a huge difference between continuing an attack and homing a channel for the entire duration of stealth. I don’t expect mobs/players to stop doing whatever they’re doing as soon as I stealth, but I do expect them to not auto-target me and continue to follow me with their attack as I frantically try to avoid it in stealth.

Well yes you are expecting mobs to continue whatever they are doing while you walk around them in stealth and backstab them. Don’t try to avoid continuous attacks with stealth. Don’t blind them as that only prevents one lick of damage. Evading round them will probably only miss a couple of licks as well. Aegis will prevent just one lick of damage. Learn to play and use an interrupt.

Don’t be obtuse. Again, there’s a huge difference between 1) continuing your swing in the direction where you last saw someone expecting them to be there, and 2) turning 180 degrees mid-swing to attack someone that’s suppose to be invisible. Only a Thief hater and/or someone that’s never played the class would defend such a broken mechanic.

P.S. If you “learned to play”, you would know that D/D has no interrupt.

Ok then would you have a problem with the mob fully healing once you are stealthed? You can’t have both, sorry.

Columba.9730:

Okamakiri.8746:

Stooperdale.3560:

Okamakiri.8746:

Just cut the BS. There is a huge difference between continuing an attack and homing a channel for the entire duration of stealth. I don’t expect mobs/players to stop doing whatever they’re doing as soon as I stealth, but I do expect them to not auto-target me and continue to follow me with their attack as I frantically try to avoid it in stealth.

Well yes you are expecting mobs to continue whatever they are doing while you walk around them in stealth and backstab them. Don’t try to avoid continuous attacks with stealth. Don’t blind them as that only prevents one lick of damage. Evading round them will probably only miss a couple of licks as well. Aegis will prevent just one lick of damage. Learn to play and use an interrupt.

Don’t be obtuse. Again, there’s a huge difference between 1) continuing your swing in the direction where you last saw someone expecting them to be there, and 2) turning 180 degrees mid-swing to attack someone that’s suppose to be invisible. Only a Thief hater and/or someone that’s never played the class would defend such a broken mechanic.

P.S. If you “learned to play”, you would know that D/D has no interrupt.

Ok then would you have a problem with the mob fully healing once you are stealthed? You can’t have both, sorry.

Never had that problem. The only times mobs reset on me, is when I wanted them to reset. And btw, that’s completely unrelated to the discussion. Defending a bug with a lazy fix of another bug is just poor programming.

So because dagger/dagger has no interrupt, mechanics should be changed so that thieves can use stealth as a solution to everything? Just pick the right tools for the job.

Stooperdale.3560:

So because dagger/dagger has no interrupt, mechanics should be changed so that thieves can use stealth as a solution to everything?

Yes.

Edit: Stealth as solution to everything is exactly what we’re asking for. /sarcasm

Okamakiri.8746:

Stooperdale.3560:

So because dagger/dagger has no interrupt, mechanics should be changed so that thieves can use stealth as a solution to everything?

Yes.

Why? No other classes can reset mobs like that.

Columba.9730:

Okamakiri.8746:

Stooperdale.3560:

So because dagger/dagger has no interrupt, mechanics should be changed so that thieves can use stealth as a solution to everything?

Yes.

Why? No other classes can reset mobs like that.

Why not? What does it matter if other classes couldn’t do it before (they could btw, stealth isn’t exclusive to Thief). Thieves don’t have:
- pets
- heavy armor
- ability to clones themselves
- Aegis
- AoE heals
- roots
- confusion
- Moa
- etc.

Do you see the pattern? Not all classes are the same, nor should they be. Do you realize yet how dumb your question is?

P.S. I never asked for mob reset to be brought back. You brought that up. This discussion was about mobs following you and attacking you WHILE you’re still in stealth. That is completely broken. It’s equivalent to Aegis sometimes not blocking, but still getting consumed. Get with the program.

Stooperdale.3560:

So because dagger/dagger has no interrupt, mechanics should be changed so that thieves can use stealth as a solution to everything? Just pick the right tools for the job.

No, the reason why mobs should stop tracking stealth thief with their looong channeling skills is because it feels incredibly wrong that it happens plain and simple. It’s weird, it feels off, it feels like a bug. They track your position with 100% accuracy no matter what you do while they should be completely unable to see you.

GlockworK.2954:

Lecter.7486:

Well it could be to offset the fact that you don’t appear on ones screen when you come out of invis turning your “3” secs in between disappearing into 1 lol. I really don’t know about what your asking but it is irritating getting killed by an invisible target so no one feels bad for you.

First, QQ moar. He is talking about PvE targets, not your sorry kitten

Second, no one wants to hear you cry over a thief crushing you in WvWvW.

OP, the stealth mechanic has changed a bit. Instead of aggro dropping completely, it essentially pauses aggro so the mob doesn’t reset. So when you come back out of stealth, the mob is still going to go for you. This is my understanding on why they changed it because enemies were resetting. Undoubtedly for boss fights, it’s rather irritating if you drop SR on your group and the boss resets.

Some people like the change (I do) and others do not. There are some other threads floating around this forum discussing the matter.

As for the mobs still hitting you in stealth, were they using a channeled ability? Channels go right through our stealth like a laser guided missile. I’ve had a few times were I thought a mob shouldn’t be able to hit me but did anyways. It’s been acting strange lately.

I agree with this post.

First, that I love mobs not resetting. Holy crap it was so terrible to use my heal only to see the Veteran or whatever I was attacking de-leash and start walking back to its patrol.

Second, that there are certain things that go RIGHT through stealth for some reason, so really.

stof.9341:

Stooperdale.3560:

So because dagger/dagger has no interrupt, mechanics should be changed so that thieves can use stealth as a solution to everything? Just pick the right tools for the job.

No, the reason why mobs should stop tracking stealth thief with their looong channeling skills is because it feels incredibly wrong that it happens plain and simple. It’s weird, it feels off, it feels like a bug. They track your position with 100% accuracy no matter what you do while they should be completely unable to see you.

What the Fausticorn are you talking about?

They stand perfectly still going “he’s still here I know he is I’m gonna kick his kitten #8221; which has the side effect of making them kitten easy to backstab, which is unrealistic but a nice gameplay thing.

Before, they said “oop, he disappeared, better instantly start walking away because he’s obviously going to leave me alone now”

Kazuhiro.5809:

the Fausticorn are you talking about?

They stand perfectly still going "he’s still here I know he is I’m gonna kick his kitten which has the side effect of making them kitten easy to backstab, which is unrealistic but a nice gameplay thing.

Before, they said “oop, he disappeared, better instantly start walking away because he’s obviously going to leave me alone now”

Talking about mobs that start channeling their actions while you go in stealth. Typical are the centaurs that go into defensive shield stance. They stay like that for 5-6s and during that time, they stay turned towards you perfectly whether you are stealthed or not. More annoying are the attack channeling mobs like harpies doing their rapid shot lookalike or the flame legion chars with their flamethrower. Those channels last long enough that you’d think by instinct that stealthing would be a great defense against those actions. And it’s not and it feels off.

^ There are also mobs that do charge up “snipe” attacks, and some that also do charge up swing attacks. Both are targeted and will therefore track you and land on you even in stealth. Completely broken.

stof.9341:

Talking about mobs that start channeling their actions while you go in stealth. Typical are the centaurs that go into defensive shield stance. They stay like that for 5-6s and during that time, they stay turned towards you perfectly whether you are stealthed or not. More annoying are the attack channeling mobs like harpies doing their rapid shot lookalike or the flame legion chars with their flamethrower. Those channels last long enough that you’d think by instinct that stealthing would be a great defense against those actions. And it’s not and it feels off.

Funny but this effect is inconsistent for me. Sometimes it happens that way, but not always.

Regardless, I understand your point now.

EDIT: I have never, ever had that problem with a charged up swing, the ones that use that greyish “power attack” animation. What DOES kitten me off is that there is one type of mob… Ettins I think… that have an AoE on that attack that reaches BEHIND them.

Kazuhiro.5809:

EDIT: I have never, ever had that problem with a charged up swing, the ones that use that greyish “power attack” animation. What DOES kitten me off is that there is one type of mob… Ettins I think… that have an AoE on that attack that reaches BEHIND them.

I’m not talking about the ground targeted attacks like the Ettin one you refer to. There are some attacks, that also take 1-2 seconds to charge up like the Ettin one, but are single targeted and continue to target you when you go in stealth. One example is the pirates in Kryta that sometimes kneel down and do an aimed shot.

The channeled attacks following you in stealth problem has been here since release. This second problem I’ve noticed since the last patch.

Okamakiri.8746:

Kazuhiro.5809:

EDIT: I have never, ever had that problem with a charged up swing, the ones that use that greyish “power attack” animation. What DOES kitten me off is that there is one type of mob… Ettins I think… that have an AoE on that attack that reaches BEHIND them.

I’m not talking about the ground targeted attacks like the Ettin one you refer to. There are some attacks, that also take 1-2 seconds to charge up like the Ettin one, but are single targeted and continue to target you when you go in stealth. One example is the pirates in Kryta that sometimes kneel down and do an aimed shot.

The channeled attacks following you in stealth problem has been here since release. This second problem I’ve noticed since the last patch.

This is also what i was talking about in the OP when i mentioned ranged attacks that track after stealth.

And it is broken and i hope they fix it, but considering we have been waiting for them to fix the ranger class for 7 months im not holding my breath.

I really want know what developers make with downed skill number 3. These 2 second of stealth was used for drop agro on PvE and now dont work and this skill is not useful anymore. This skill now need rework coz now its same like thief has only 3 downed skills. Downed = dead now.

Stealth needs to reduce aggro so we’re not tanking in melee range.
Downed skills need changed/fixed badly.
Channeling on stealth still needs fixed. This nerf just makes this all the more annoying.

It seems okay to me.

NPCs hit you, you stealth, NPC finishes the swing or attack it was already doing, you get hurt a bit if you were standing there, and then NPC pauses there for a bit wondering where you are. Before, the NPC would just suddenly turn away and run back lol. That was annoying to chase down and backstab >.<.

kenshinakh.3672:

It seems okay to me.

NPCs hit you, you stealth, NPC finishes the swing or attack it was already doing, you get hurt a bit if you were standing there, and then NPC pauses there for a bit wondering where you are. Before, the NPC would just suddenly turn away and run back lol. That was annoying to chase down and backstab >.<.

L2Read. The NPC doesn’t finish the swing in the place where you were standing when you went into stealth, it keeps facing you as you move in stealth to finish the swing/cast on you.