Guild Wars 2

I have run across Champ mobs in the world and Skill Point mobs that go OOC (Out of Combat) as soon as I stealth. I was trying to kill a Champ Lich yesterday and every time I stealthed to cure conditions he regained full health. The mob did this over and over again so many times that I couldn’t kill him and the timer ran to 0. Neither of us died.

I understand having mobs regen health so I cant just wp rush him over and over but they are gaining full health before the 3 seconds of stealth my blinding powder gives.

ANet, this is our main mechanic and it is keeping me from progressing in the game.

Skill Point mobs are the worst. If they started green and I instigate a fight with them they turn green (freindly) again as soon as I stealth for healing etc… and I have to fight them agian…

So in conclusion, high level challenging mobs that i can’t kill in 5 seconds and who have the ability to put conditions on me or damage me to where I need healing are not allowing me to use my main class mechanic….is this “working as intended”?

Also, the change to mobs having Invulnerability when the player is not on the same “level” as them is just game-breaking. Sooo…I can’t sneak up on a mob and shoot him with my ranged abilities because he cant get to me…um…isn’t that the point of sneaking up and attacking from above? or below? or just to the side? Just plain lazy programming really. Especially in a game that encourages us to jump up on anything we can.

OK I didnt read this to the end, but you allso didnt think at all about this problem you have with mobs reseting. When u stealth, mob resets becouse there is noone around to kill and noone is killing him, why shouldnt he then ? Drop some caltrops or use spider venom to keep dots ticking when u stealthed. So yes its working as fking intended. Mobs reset when there is noone to fight with.

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

Karolis.4261:

OK I didnt read this to the end, but you allso didnt think at all about this problem you have with mobs reseting. When u stealth, mob resets becouse there is noone around to kill and noone is killing him, why shouldnt he then ? Drop some caltrops or use spider venom to keep dots ticking when u stealthed. So yes its working as fking intended. Mobs reset when there is noone to fight with.

Lofat.2406:

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

Just because there’s a workaround for it doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue that should just be addressed… seriously… I’m really getting tired of seeing these kinds of replies.

To the OP: I’ve never seen this myself (and played a Thief for 450+ hours), have you noticed it on multiple champs or just the Lich?

None of the workarounds these actually work, weaponswap is on a 10 second cooldown. caltrops even longer. Mobs should simply not reset in 2 seconds, timer could easily be set to 5 or even 10 seconds.

frans.8092:

None of the workarounds these actually work, weaponswap is on a 10 second cooldown. caltrops even longer. Mobs should simply not reset in 2 seconds, timer could easily be set to 5 or even 10 seconds.

Ofc MY workaround works perfectlly. You can keep dots on it 24/7 by mixing caltrops with spider venom.

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

OK I didnt read this to the end, but you allso didnt think at all about this problem you have with mobs reseting. When u stealth, mob resets becouse there is noone around to kill and noone is killing him, why shouldnt he then ? Drop some caltrops or use spider venom to keep dots ticking when u stealthed. So yes its working as fking intended. Mobs reset when there is noone to fight with.

Lofat.2406:

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

Just because there’s a workaround for it doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue that should just be addressed… seriously… I’m really getting tired of seeing these kinds of replies.

To the OP: I’ve never seen this myself (and played a Thief for 450+ hours), have you noticed it on multiple champs or just the Lich?

No theres no issue. And why wouldnt you want to use these “workarounds” if it adds additional dps to boss ?

Are you sure this isn’t because you lured the opponent far from their starting point? I rarely see them reseting when I heal or use CnD.

That said I’m condition based so maybe it’s that I always have ticks on him, but normally this only happens when they’re too far from their starting point.

If you have the problem, just keep conditions (if you are P/D it shouldn’t be a problem, if you’re D/D, mix some DB, if not just try use some condition any other way).

If you used stealth to stay out of combat for 3 seconds to heal conditions with the trait, it’s like you run away from him and heal some conditions with any other profession. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. If not Shadow Refuge could be used to wait 14 seconds for utility recharges without the mob being reseted.

I don’t see a problem to be adressed here, stealth in combat is supposedly used as an offensive tool (in which case they won’t reset) or as scape tool (in which case they will).

My main problem with stealth is how sometimes you’re not considered out of combat and need to return and kill something before being able to jump correctly again.

Karolis.4261:

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

OK I didnt read this to the end, but you allso didnt think at all about this problem you have with mobs reseting. When u stealth, mob resets becouse there is noone around to kill and noone is killing him, why shouldnt he then ? Drop some caltrops or use spider venom to keep dots ticking when u stealthed. So yes its working as fking intended. Mobs reset when there is noone to fight with.

Lofat.2406:

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

Just because there’s a workaround for it doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue that should just be addressed… seriously… I’m really getting tired of seeing these kinds of replies.

To the OP: I’ve never seen this myself (and played a Thief for 450+ hours), have you noticed it on multiple champs or just the Lich?

No theres no issue. And why wouldnt you want to use these “workarounds” if it adds additional dps to boss ?

No, you’re wrong, there is an issue if the OP is correct and if that’s the case then it needs to be addressed.

As for your “question”, someone who is using a Power/Crit build isn’t likely to bring near-useless venom utilities for some minor damage increase/stun on a long cooldown or Caltrops for an AoE bleed + cripple when their bleeds aren’t going to tick for much damage at all.

Statements like yours are just plain ignorant, and I’m sorry if you think otherwise, but being required to do something that you shouldn’t in order to get around what is a potentially unintended/bugged mechanic isn’t a legitimate solution.

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

OK I didnt read this to the end, but you allso didnt think at all about this problem you have with mobs reseting. When u stealth, mob resets becouse there is noone around to kill and noone is killing him, why shouldnt he then ? Drop some caltrops or use spider venom to keep dots ticking when u stealthed. So yes its working as fking intended. Mobs reset when there is noone to fight with.

Lofat.2406:

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

Just because there’s a workaround for it doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue that should just be addressed… seriously… I’m really getting tired of seeing these kinds of replies.

To the OP: I’ve never seen this myself (and played a Thief for 450+ hours), have you noticed it on multiple champs or just the Lich?

No theres no issue. And why wouldnt you want to use these “workarounds” if it adds additional dps to boss ?

No, you’re wrong, there is an issue if the OP is correct and if that’s the case then it needs to be addressed.

As for your “question”, someone who is using a Power/Crit build isn’t likely to bring near-useless venom utilities for some minor damage increase/stun on a long cooldown or Caltrops for an AoE bleed + cripple when their bleeds aren’t going to tick for much damage at all.

Statements like yours are just plain ignorant, and I’m sorry if you think otherwise, but being required to do something that you shouldn’t in order to get around what is a potentially unintended/bugged mechanic isn’t a legitimate solution.

And thats exactly what i did when leveling my thief with power/crit gear, I took some DoT utilities before engaging skill challanges. Its not so hard to swap utilities on the go. Speaking of caltrops its a huge damage, no matter 50 damage ticks or 100.
And what stun do you speak about… ? Dont answer this…

Karolis.4261:

Ofc MY workaround works perfectlly. You can keep dots on it 24/7 by mixing caltrops with spider venom.

The duration is not enough for the cooldown, so 24/7 is not going to happen, but it should go long ways, mixed in with some weapon dot here and there.

frans.8092:

Karolis.4261:

Ofc MY workaround works perfectlly. You can keep dots on it 24/7 by mixing caltrops with spider venom.

The duration is not enough for the cooldown, so 24/7 is not going to happen, but it should go long ways, mixed in with some weapon dot here and there.

You dont do single challange 24/7.
btw spider venom – 30s poison on 45 s cooldown, caltrops 14 s on 30 s coldown, looks like perfect 24/7 to me.

Karolis.4261:

You dont do single challange 24/7.

That is why you wouldn’t build for it.

btw spider venom – 30s poison on 45 s cooldown, caltrops 14 s on 30 s coldown, looks like perfect 24/7 to me.

Ow yeah, it’s 5 times 6 seconds, should work then.

The problem is when you stealth, the mob instantly starts regenerating health and runs back to spawn point. If you drop out of stealth and resume attack, the mob ignores you. Hence a full reset. Remember this happens the second you enter stealth.

A more elegant solution would be for the mob to commence walking or “jogging” back to his spawn upon your stealth, but if you were to drop out and resume attack, the mob should also resume fighting.

If you have a veteran or champion down to 1/4 health, how is stealthing to remove a condition so overpowered that the appropriate response for the mob is to fully reset?

I appreciate the recommendation of using poison and caltrops utilities. Haven’t tried dotting to keep aggro although I’m a direct damage build.

Mob AI is pretty stupid. It doesn’t heal. It doesn’t remove conditions. It will stand in aoe. They attack slow. If they can’t get to you, they will stand there and take it if they have no ranged ability.

Developers make up for that by adding immunities, hit points, and they hit hard when they do.

It also doesn’t have a very good thought process. People…I at least…will see a shadow refuge and will use a skill to kick you out of your house. I get a real kick out of this, even if you still run away it is fun to make you soil your trousers. Mobs AI doesn’t have such a though process so it does work to your advantage. You don’t have to fight everything and as soon as you shadow refuge, mobs will stop chasing.

I like how they drop aggro and reset when I turn invisible because I don’t care to have to deal with everything I come across and would just rather be about my business with what I really want to do. Sure I can run and take some hits and keep on going like I do with my warrior but it is nice to just make everything leave me alone without any fuss.

I did have a bit of a issue with some of the skill points but I ended up doing death blossom on them quite a bit and just kited around. I also ran with food regeration since I was leveling up in cook so I didn’t have to stealth on stuff that I was trying to kill. I ended up adapting to the mob AI. I know it will behave in a certain way so I will use that to my advantage. That is the problem with stupid AI.

I had to log on and try this out to see what happens.

I switched to S/D and not P/D for testing. When I attack a mob and go stealth (leaving no conditions on mob) the mob maintained it’s health level (75% health) and instantly attacked me when stealth wore off.

I also kited the mob far from it’s starting point. The instant I went stealth, the mob instantly started to regen (rather slowly) as it ran back to it’s starting point, not attempting to attack me when I came out of stealth. I didn’t re enter combat. The mob reset.

I kited the mob far from it’s starting point again. The instant I went stealth, the mob started to regen and head back to it’s starting point. When I came out of stealth I could still attack him and do damage that would cause the mobs regeneration to stop and damage to take, but he was still heading towards his starting point.

So in conclusion, if you take a mob far enough away from it’s starting point and cease combat, it resets like it should. This is correct in the fact that if you get in a bind, you can and should be able to outrun most mobs until they reset.

On the other hand, it doesn’t seem right that I can take any mob far enough, stealth and cause them to cease attacking me and then just beat them down while they are attempting to reset. The mob would stop regenerating health if attacked while running back to it’s starting point, but would not attack me again until it reached it’s starting point.

I have to agree that the current mechanics are ‘broken’, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t working as intended. It’s a hard problem to address as a dev, because what you should be asking yourself is… “What is this mob ‘thinking’ when this thief vanishes, and how would that cause the mob to respond?”

Realistically, a mob’s ‘hang out and fight’ or ‘run the flake away’ response should depend on the temper of the mob (tiger vs. gazelle) and how much health it has left. Of course it’s going to try to run away if it’s nearly dead and the thing that’s killing it just disappeared. However, if I was a bad-asp ogre and some piddly little thing that looked like Stewie off Family Guy just hit me twice and disappeared, I’d probably look around for it.

As for the workarounds and whether they’re ‘valid’ solutions or whether you should or shouldn’t have to use them to kill certain mobs, please consider: If you were spec’d to deal amazing damage to melee mobs, but had next to no recourse against ranged mobs, would you be saying that ranged mobs should be taken out of the game? Of course not. The fact is, there will always be mobs that you aren’t designed to be best against and that will require you to use some less than ideal tactics to defeat them. That’s just the nature of a well-designed game.

In summary, while the reactions of mobs to stealth may not be perfectly designed, that’s not enough evidence to say that the mechanic is ‘broken’. And, as this mechanic doesn’t prevent you from accomplishing tasks or progressing in the game (even if it does make it a little more difficult), I think the workarounds are a good enough answer for now. Certainly, voice your concerns, because there really might be a problem that the devs need to address, but there’s no need to get angry.

Karolis.4261:

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

OK I didnt read this to the end, but you allso didnt think at all about this problem you have with mobs reseting. When u stealth, mob resets becouse there is noone around to kill and noone is killing him, why shouldnt he then ? Drop some caltrops or use spider venom to keep dots ticking when u stealthed. So yes its working as fking intended. Mobs reset when there is noone to fight with.

Lofat.2406:

Just keep damage going. Bleeds, poisons, etc… The minute there isn’t anyone targeted and they aren’t taking any damage, they reset. An easy way to do that is to switch to SB while your in stealth and drop a poison (#4) on them. You will stay in stealth, they will keep taking damage, and they won’t reset.

Just because there’s a workaround for it doesn’t mean that it’s not an issue that should just be addressed… seriously… I’m really getting tired of seeing these kinds of replies.

To the OP: I’ve never seen this myself (and played a Thief for 450+ hours), have you noticed it on multiple champs or just the Lich?

No theres no issue. And why wouldnt you want to use these “workarounds” if it adds additional dps to boss ?

No, you’re wrong, there is an issue if the OP is correct and if that’s the case then it needs to be addressed.

As for your “question”, someone who is using a Power/Crit build isn’t likely to bring near-useless venom utilities for some minor damage increase/stun on a long cooldown or Caltrops for an AoE bleed + cripple when their bleeds aren’t going to tick for much damage at all.

Statements like yours are just plain ignorant, and I’m sorry if you think otherwise, but being required to do something that you shouldn’t in order to get around what is a potentially unintended/bugged mechanic isn’t a legitimate solution.

And thats exactly what i did when leveling my thief with power/crit gear, I took some DoT utilities before engaging skill challanges. Its not so hard to swap utilities on the go. Speaking of caltrops its a huge damage, no matter 50 damage ticks or 100.
And what stun do you speak about… ? Dont answer this…

Is it hard to swap utilities? No, but should you be required to do so? Definitely not

You’re missing the point entirely. If you’re trying to solo a Champion then you generally want to have the best utilities you can for your build and your combat approach. Being required to apply DoT just so that a mob won’t reset when you use a huge part of your classes ability is, in fact, an issue.

As for your snide remark about a stun, I assume you’ve heard of Devourer and Basilisk venoms, considering it’s quite obvious that I was talking about them. :$

Please, do reply, I can’t wait for your next excuse

Yea, wow, responses are not what I expected. Look, this happens to me when I play how I like to play with my build. I run P/P and S/D. I like it. And it doesn’t work. Period. Am I going to have to find a way around it? Yea. But that sucks. And that’s my point. All I’m asking is that OOC regen for mobs could maybe be a little slower or start later than immediately after I enter stealth with no DOTS on him. Is that really that gamebreaking?

Incurafy.6329:

Is it hard to swap utilities? No, but should you be required to do so? Definitely not

You’re missing the point entirely. If you’re trying to solo a Champion then you generally want to have the best utilities you can for your build and your combat approach. Being required to apply DoT just so that a mob won’t reset when you use a huge part of your classes ability is, in fact, an issue.

As for your snide remark about a stun, I assume you’ve heard of Devourer and Basilisk venoms, considering it’s quite obvious that I was talking about them. :$

Please, do reply, I can’t wait for your next excuse

It’s you who is missing the point entirely, champions mobs are very different between themselves. Some are melee, some are ranged, some are heavy AoE, some are single target… It’s YOU the one who have to adapt your build to every champion in order to defeat them. If a champion needs ‘caltrops’ or ‘smoke screen’ or ‘withdraw’ instead of ‘hide in shadows’ then, it’s ultimately your fault if you obstinate in fighting it with a given build.

Thus, what many people (including you) are saying is: “I want my chosen build to deal with every possible situation in the game”. If you truly think that, the least offensive word to describe your attitude is: ‘naive’.

BTW, a mob doesn’t instantly reset when you go stealth. Actually, the 1st time you go stealth against a mob it ‘lingers’ in the area -without regenerating- for some seconds, allowing you to reposition. It’s from the 2nd time and forth you go stealth when the mob effectively ‘resets’.

frans.8092:

None of the workarounds these actually work, weaponswap is on a 10 second cooldown. caltrops even longer. Mobs should simply not reset in 2 seconds, timer could easily be set to 5 or even 10 seconds.

I agree here, 10 sec may be a little long, even for 5 sec thief would need a longer stealth than most in this game allow, but it does make since. I am not even seeing 2 sec as is unless they are in the middle of a maintain. Some one punches you in the face at the bar and vanishes, you gonna sit back down right away like nothing happened, or you gonna look for the S.O.B.? It would be cool if they were spending 3 sec scouting for you at least before giving up. As is, I have 4-5 ways to stealth on my build/weapon selection, you can literally Yo-Yo an enemy to death, hit-stealth-hit-stealth-ect. (as long as you re-hit fast enough so their health does not fully reset) taking no damage because the NPC just really wants to sit back down. The first video I watched of the beta was of a thief, in the video it was stated stealth causes a problem with resetting mobs in pve situations which can limit use of stealth. In a lot of games rogue types use stealth as a means to get away, to increase damage of your next attack, open certain stun abilities, and other general tactics. I don’t see the problem being the stealth but more so the intelligence of the mobs. Here’s an example that maybe even makes me look bad: Last night I took 4 friends into AC story, they are all new to the game and it was their first dungeon experience and I was helping them learn the fights. On the Captain with 15 ghosts we killed the 15 and my friends all died with just me left up, I stealthed which reset the boss long enough for them to release exploiting against the new No-Res-Rush policy, I hit the boss fast enough that he did not fully reset his health, then I continued to hit-stealth over and over until everyone was back taking a portion of the bosses health and keeping him generally in combat. Honestly, this should have either been a full wipe, or a full reset if I just stealth and run. Though if the boss had a program to keep looking for 3 sec. for me, this would not have been possible because he would have stayed in combat while scouting. The way I feel it should go: In a group situation give the boss a 50-50 chance to scout me, or reset aggro elsewhere, in solo situations 100% chance to scout keeping the NPC in combat. Now, I am not saying that his scouting should always be completely aggressive with full blown out AoE fire, just give them the 3 seconds of looking around scratching their head, or checking under rocks, or what ever. Maybe if an AoE is on their play list, give them somewhere between 5-20% chance to use it in their scouting.

I’ve had this problem several times. It’s not just champions or skill point challengers. It’s very frustrating to use one of your class skills, especially the stealth healing option, and then have the NPC reset. It happens often enough to make me curse.

edit: to respond to one or two posters, I’ve been fighting skill point challengers within inches of their starting point. In fact, its worse when you’re right at their starting point. They immediately go green and out of combat if you stealth. There are variations as well, including NPCs totally resetting and popping back to their starting point, not running, just vanishing from their current spot and reappearing at the start point.

Black Frog that is exactly what I am seeing. Its incredibly frustrating. I have more problems fighting in PvE than WvW…

I feel you OP. I used to run a backstab build in PvE. Tons of fun, but skill points were impossible sometimes. The constant resetting is annoying. I used to time my elite (TG) when I needed to heal just so the mob wouldn’t reset. Even then, if I couldn’t dps quick enough, the mob would STILL reset if I needed to heal again (and TG wasn’t off cd yet). The part I have issue with is our class mechanic is countered by a game mechanic.

I recently switched to a P/D condition build to try dungeons/fractals, and the skill points are much easier to do. It stinks we have to change our play style just to counter a game mechanic. I’m not sure why having a 5 second pause before a mob resets would break anything…

It happens all the time when I try to solo supply camp. Walk in the camp, all mobs rushes you, stealth and they all run back and regen.

Off topic, I found using s/p is the easiest way to solo veteran/champion mobs. Use 5 with signet of shadow, along with auto attack, the mob will be blinded 100%.

Correct because the AI breaks combat when you stealth. ^^ is the way to go.

One more thing that is wonky about this …. I cant get out of combat even though the Champ has…

Exp: I want to get around a champ that is guarding a View Point I run up, the Champ aggros on me, I stealth and run to the close by but out of aggro range View Point. But, I can’t get the VP because I am still in combat. Only way to break combat for me is to log to the Char select screen and back in….really???