Guild Wars 2

This one is pretty simple, everything should have some means of a counter and atm stealth finishers have none so unless ArenaNet is willing to add a new downed skill to all classes to prevent thieves from finishing you off with impudence then they need to remove this. Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can negate all other classes downed abilities simply because they have one ability that trumps all others.

Thanks for your time

I’m assuming you’d be ok with removing finishers while on stability, mist form, elixir S too ?

Atticus.7194:

This one is pretty simple, everything should have some means of a counter and atm stealth finishers have none so unless ArenaNet is willing to add a new downed skill to all classes to prevent thieves from finishing you off with impudence then they need to remove this. Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can negate all other classes downed abilities simply because they have one ability that trumps all others.

Thanks for your time

You can’t do anything if a Mesmer stealth stomps you either. You’re really screwed if they time warp their entire team to haste stomp you. You’re also screwed if they mass invis their team and stomp you.

You can’t do anything if an Engi happens to get stealth and stomps you either. You can’t do anything if they get stability instead and stomp you. You cant do anything if they pop Elixer S and stomp you.

You can’t do anything if a Guardian pops “Stand Your Ground!” and stomps you either… Hell, I could pop Virtue of Courage, grant Aegis to myself and allies, and we can all stomp you at the same time. Regardless of your counter.

And that’s just a couple of the classes. We could go on about Mist Form, etc. But no. Let’s just direct our hate at thieves. In which, if I’m on my Thief, I’ll just pop Signet of Shadows before your hammer, aoe shield, aoe daze, etc goes off. Or Shadowstep off to the side, wait for the knockback, hammer, grappling line, etc, and Shadow Return back causing you to miss anyways.

The point is, if someone skilled/smart enough to counter wants to stomp you, well you’re just gonna get stomped. Now let’s stop all of the hate directed just at thieves, shall we?

PS: Black Powder always works great for stomping. Watching every little downed attack miss makes me chuckle. xD

Kneru.8014:

PS: Black Powder always works great for stomping. Watching every little downed attack miss makes me chuckle. xD

might as well finish the combo and stealth stomp

stealth stomp is not op, but makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside when i do that ^^

as mentioned, other classes have stability/invul/block/aegis etc.

it’s a lot better the shadowstep stomp… but has 50sec cd against the 3sec of stealth.

Dont complain about thief OP just roll a thief. Back then when there was paids and I was in need of glory to get to any tournamet party I rolled a thief and owned pll with scores 300+ and 20+ kills each match. Farming glory with thief on hot joins is ultra easy – dont complain about this – USE IT

Kneru.8014:

Atticus.7194:

This one is pretty simple, everything should have some means of a counter and atm stealth finishers have none so unless ArenaNet is willing to add a new downed skill to all classes to prevent thieves from finishing you off with impudence then they need to remove this. Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can negate all other classes downed abilities simply because they have one ability that trumps all others.

Thanks for your time

You can’t do anything if a Mesmer stealth stomps you either. You’re really screwed if they time warp their entire team to haste stomp you. You’re also screwed if they mass invis their team and stomp you.

You can’t do anything if an Engi happens to get stealth and stomps you either. You can’t do anything if they get stability instead and stomp you. You cant do anything if they pop Elixer S and stomp you.

You can’t do anything if a Guardian pops “Stand Your Ground!” and stomps you either… Hell, I could pop Virtue of Courage, grant Aegis to myself and allies, and we can all stomp you at the same time. Regardless of your counter.

And that’s just a couple of the classes. We could go on about Mist Form, etc. But no. Let’s just direct our hate at thieves. In which, if I’m on my Thief, I’ll just pop Signet of Shadows before your hammer, aoe shield, aoe daze, etc goes off. Or Shadowstep off to the side, wait for the knockback, hammer, grappling line, etc, and Shadow Return back causing you to miss anyways.

The point is, if someone skilled/smart enough to counter wants to stomp you, well you’re just gonna get stomped. Now let’s stop all of the hate directed just at thieves, shall we?

PS: Black Powder always works great for stomping. Watching every little downed attack miss makes me chuckle. xD

/end thread

I know the thread has ended but this OP bothers me so much that I just have to reply. =P

Stealth does not make you invulnerable to CC. Anything that CC’s a Thief while he’s visible will CC a Thief while he’s stealthed. Stealth is the only stomp securing mechanic that DOES have counters by almost every class, as opposed to your ridiculous claim. Stability/Invul/Blind stomps are the ones that you literally can’t do anything about in down state unless you have a downed skill that allows for repositioning.

ArenaMods.

Maybe it is time to stop allowing mass spam of

“STEALTH NEEDS TO BE NERFED”
“X NEEDS TO BE NERFED
“Z NEEDS TO BE NERFED”
“POWER RANGERS NEEDS TO BE NERFED”
“UNICORNS NEED TO STOP EATING GRASS TO SAVE THE PLANET”

/endthread.

Yeah, disregard Stability/Endure Pain, Elixir S, Mist Form, Aegis, Mesmer Stealths.

Let’s concentrate on Thieves and their only safe form of stomping that isn’t even an invulnerability or a CC immunity.

I’m sick of this garbage.

Kicking them while they’re down is more fun than stomping.

For the classes that can move while down, (elementalist, mesmers, thieves,) when you see a a thief stealth in-front of you, wait 2-3 seconds then over away.

Oh and ranger has an aoe daze i believe, and a guardian as an aoe knockback, so wait a few seconds and pop those off.

On the other hand we should also make everyone have the same downed skills, lets face it mesmers seem to in the lead here as well – thieves’ very predictable port then blinding powder is very easy to deal with. the downed state is something I have a love hate relationship with. Sometimes i think its good other times its just so annoying. As stated many classes have tools to down the downed however.

Thieves almost require stealth to finish anyone if there is more than one around. Unless you are condition based or just some tanky build a thief will go down to autos during a stomp animation. Even when in stealth we can still go down to autos.

Rofl what I pop balanced stance on my warrior when I go to stomp guaranteed!!! That big guardian bubble everyone else gets knocked back no me

Also off hand pistol black powder stom kitten uperior to stealth stomp imo

Everything has a counter.

Stability finisher? Fear (it’s a condition) or Stealth the downed player
Stealth? Do lots of damage in that area or use an area/conal CC/fear
Distortion? Stealth the downed player.

I’ll admit my Mesmer is the best at this with distortion shatter … but it also requires me to invest a full set of illusions and a long cooldown. If you can’t stealth your friend, his butt belongs to my spike.

Stealth finisher is getting nerfed, in that revealed is being placed on destealth. It’s fairly easy to keep a thief busy while downed, so once they pop out, they have to wait 3 sec to do it again.

Either way, there’s a 90% chance you’re going to die no matter what, either if you’re alone or you’re with people too stupid to realize that the thief didn’t enter the mystical godmode realm of stealth, and is very vulnerable in his predictable location over your body.

The end.

Atticus.7194:

This one is pretty simple, everything should have some means of a counter and atm stealth finishers have none so unless ArenaNet is willing to add a new downed skill to all classes to prevent thieves from finishing you off with impudence then they need to remove this. Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can negate all other classes downed abilities simply because they have one ability that trumps all others.

Thanks for your time

I think what you mean is, you can’t do anything personally, if you happen to be playing a Ranger, and they have no allies standing near them who you can target with Thunderclap instead.
Because everyone else can avoid it perfectly fine.
Engineer – Booby Trap
Mesmer – Deception
Guardian – Wave of Light
Thief – Shadow Escape
Elementalist – Vapor Form
Warrior – Vengeance
Necromancer – Fear

I think the real problem is simply that you’re terrible at the game, and would rather drag everyone else down to your level than try to improve.

While we’re complaining about stealth and stomping, I’d like to point out that thieves can still BE stomped while in stealth, making the #3 downed skill totally terrible for most situations.

Sebrent.3625:

Everything has a counter.

Stability finisher? Fear (it’s a condition) or Stealth the downed player
Stealth? Do lots of damage in that area or use an area/conal CC/fear
Distortion? Stealth the downed player.

I’ll admit my Mesmer is the best at this with distortion shatter … but it also requires me to invest a full set of illusions and a long cooldown. If you can’t stealth your friend, his butt belongs to my spike.

Umm you can’t be feared when you have stability up try again. Fear counts as a condition and CC.

You are correct that you can stealth but if its stealth I just 100bs which I do to most downed people anyway for the might stacks.

Should just go ahead and nerf the stealth stomp.

Who cares about thieves anymore anyways?

the only problem i see with stealth stomp is it stops abilities that rely on target from triggering. make those targetless in some way and leave stealth stomp the same.

Playing on a guardian I don’t think Stealth stomp is Near as bad as the completely immune to everything engineer/ele stomps. At least thieves can be effected by CCs and can be fought off by allies (assuming they are actually hitting them) but the Invulnerable stomps do need to go in some way.

just remove stomp in total, make it so to finish people you actually have to attack em.

I agree that invuln stomps are far worse than stealth stomps.

Downed states are also horribly imbalanced.

Just remove downed state in PvP… you hit 0 you die. They can res you after. End of story tons of problems fixed.

The reason why stealth is a little bit more overpowered than stability in terms of stomping is the number of stealth skills a thief has. Guardians and warriors have the most non-elite sources of stability: 2. Thief on the other hand can stealth from: weapon skills, healing skills, stealing (with traits), and you can get 2 utilities with stealth on them if you want. Some of these stealths recharge pretty quick too. I exclude elites because most elites that give stability are transformations (unless you’re dumb and you use warbanner to execute someone) and you have to exploit to execute someone that way.

I can think of 3 scenarios which an ele mist form executes you: 1) You suck 2) The ele ganged up on you so s/he never needed to use mist form 3) You didn’t use your sneak attack on the ele to force them into mist form. Mist form is the ele’s “Oh crap I’m getting my butt kicked button” so if you 1v1 one and s/he downs you without even using it you weren’t winning that fight anyways. In any case mist form and elixir S (non-tossed) finishing are also exploiting since you have to start it and then go invincible because normally you can’t finish in either form.

Grimwolf.7163:

Atticus.7194:

This one is pretty simple, everything should have some means of a counter and atm stealth finishers have none so unless ArenaNet is willing to add a new downed skill to all classes to prevent thieves from finishing you off with impudence then they need to remove this. Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can negate all other classes downed abilities simply because they have one ability that trumps all others.

Thanks for your time

I think what you mean is, you can’t do anything personally, if you happen to be playing a Ranger, and they have no allies standing near them who you can target with Thunderclap instead.
Because everyone else can avoid it perfectly fine.
Engineer – Booby Trap
Mesmer – Deception
Guardian – Wave of Light
Thief – Shadow Escape
Elementalist – Vapor Form
Warrior – Vengeance
Necromancer – Fear

I think the real problem is simply that you’re terrible at the game, and would rather drag everyone else down to your level than try to improve.

While we’re complaining about stealth and stomping, I’d like to point out that thieves can still BE stomped while in stealth, making the #3 downed skill totally terrible for most situations.

I’ve found that being stealth executed is worse for some classes than others. Warrior hammer, necro fear, and engie grappling hook all shoot straight in front of you without a target so if the thief is behind you, then you’ll wish you were a guardian. If you manage to use revenge or booby trap before you get finished, then I really gotta wonder what that thief is doing because you have to wait longer than it takes to get finished before you can use them.

In the end stealth finishers aren’t on the top of my list of what needs to be fixed. I just always thought it was funny that you could go, “I’M GONNA IMPALE YOU WITH THIS FLAG!!!!!” while completely invisible.

oZii.2864:

Sebrent.3625:

Everything has a counter.

Stability finisher? Fear (it’s a condition) or Stealth the downed player
Stealth? Do lots of damage in that area or use an area/conal CC/fear
Distortion? Stealth the downed player.

I’ll admit my Mesmer is the best at this with distortion shatter … but it also requires me to invest a full set of illusions and a long cooldown. If you can’t stealth your friend, his butt belongs to my spike.

Umm you can’t be feared when you have stability up try again. Fear counts as a condition and CC.

Are you 100% sure on this? I was pretty positive that you could be feared even with stablity.

oZii.2864:

You are correct that you can stealth but if its stealth I just 100bs which I do to most downed people anyway for the might stacks.

Hence why I posted that the counter to stealth is to simply do damage on that location.

Stealth stomp is a death trap against glass cannons who have half a brain. If you have a downed teammate and a thief CnDs near him, guess what? 99% of the time, stealth stomp. Stand over your teammate and 100B/autoattack/aoe him.

Also, mist form stomp, stability stomp, haste stomp > stealth stomp

Ok…just to get this straight, you guys compare my only stunbreaker/invul with a 60sec cooldown that i need to use just to get a secure stomp with a spammable no CD at all abillity? Really?

And maybe you guys arnt aware of this little detail but there is actually a counter to stability/invul stomping, gues what it is? Exactly, its this ridicoulus broken ability with the worst implementation in MMO history, the reason why ~50% of my friends already quit this game. Right its stealth…..

In straight 1v1 situation between my engineer and a thief there is no way i can stomp the thief and using my elixir S for it would be a waste. On the other hand i have no not a single chance to prevent the thief from stomping me. But this isnt enough, thiefs are the reason in >95% of all cases where my invulstomps fail because they just area stealth the downed one.

Thiefplayers talking about balance is one reason for hating the internet.
Even more annoying then youtube commentary.

As an engi you should be destroying thieves in 1 vs 1. Your only problem is stomping them? So instead of stomping use one of your many aoe abilities as an engi? I don’t understand.. i have no problem as engi taking care of any downed thief with my grenades. + as engi you can have your stability or invis with the F1-4 skill of the potion.

Could you try to read that post agin plz? Maybe you get my point then, thx.
Neither stability nor invisibility nor shrinkform helps you to stomp a thief, thats my point. As engineer i cant prevent a thief from stomping, not even once.
This isnt about 1v1 a thief at all. Its the same for groupfights or larger encounters.
Thiefs are almost the only classes that can ruin my elixir s stomp on others with shadowrefuge.

With your grenades …. you should stick to your commander and camping walls.
And jes i played nades after release where no one even knew what 100nades is about.
Had to change my build, mostly because of thieves to survive thier burst. Its just not that good for soloing compared to conditionspec.

I dont 1vs1 i usually play 1vsX, you wont do that well there with nades but where should you know. Dont know how bad you are on your thief but this is the only class which causes trouble to me because they clean all thier conditions everytime they stealth. Jes i usually beat them, but it takes longer then every other class and of course i only mention the really good ones. Even mesmers and D/D eles are easy compared to thiefs. Again its not about fighting a thief, if you play alot WvW you have to learn that because most players here are so bad that they cant have success on nonlamer professions. So every 2nd enemy i face is a thief, no im not exaggerating.

Kontrolle.3514:

Dont know how bad you are on your thief but this is the only class which causes trouble to me

So you are saying that you want to be a sort of unbeatable super hero and noone should trouble you ever…. you are saying you want to be OP.
If another profession troubles you, you go on it’s forum to complain.
Yeah, that looks fine … lol

Even as someone who thinks thieves are really, really overpowered, I don’t see how stealth stomping is too strong. One one hand there are classes like Engineer who can’t stop the stealth stomp unless you are really lucky, but then again stability or invuln stomping works on them too. The thief has to stand there and take damage, and is still vulnerable to blinds and knockdowns.etc. Off the top of my head, a good number of downed #2 skills will still counter it in the same way as the other forms of stomping (so no, there is no need to buff stealth stomping)

And as a reply to the post above me, the problem is not with stealth stomping per se, but rather is about how thieves are generally a ridiculous class. Even their down state is amazing. But stealth stomping by itself is quite easy to counter as the thief has to stand in one spot and channel something.

TL;DR – Stealth stomping is not OP

Edit: I meant the post above the previous one. Daendur posted something while I was still typing.

Stealth stomp itself isnt OP.
Stealthstomp without any CD is.

Every other class has to sacrifice a stunbreaker, invul or stealth ability with a high CD.
Thiev can permastealthstomp so as i always said, CnD is the problem.

Kontrolle.3514:

Stealth stomp itself isnt OP.
Stealthstomp without any CD is.

Every other class has to sacrifice a stunbreaker, invul or stealth ability with a high CD.
Thiev can permastealthstomp so as i always said, CnD is the problem.

Do they stomp you multiple times ?
lol

A thief standing still for 3 seconds to stomp, invisible or not, is usually a dead thief. Hasted stomp is the real killer.

But you do bring up an interesting point – thieves have NO non-channeled ability stability. Daggerstorm, which you can’t do anything other than….. daggerstorm while it’s active. Only class that has that limitation.

So you can take your thief hate and cram it down your whinehole.

Kincaidia.3192:

A thief standing still for 3 seconds to stomp, invisible or not, is usually a dead thief. Hasted stomp is the real killer.

But you do bring up an interesting point – thieves have NO non-channeled ability stability. Daggerstorm, which you can’t do anything other than….. daggerstorm while it’s active. Only class that has that limitation.

So you can take your thief hate and cram it down your whinehole.

tbh you can daggerstorm, evade (interrupting DS) and do what you want with your stability buff… but it is a bit too much I think to use 1 elite + 1 dodge for 8s of stability

Daendur.2357:

Kincaidia.3192:

A thief standing still for 3 seconds to stomp, invisible or not, is usually a dead thief. Hasted stomp is the real killer.

But you do bring up an interesting point – thieves have NO non-channeled ability stability. Daggerstorm, which you can’t do anything other than….. daggerstorm while it’s active. Only class that has that limitation.

So you can take your thief hate and cram it down your whinehole.

tbh you can daggerstorm, evade (interrupting DS) and do what you want with your stability buff… but it is a bit too much I think to use 1 elite + 1 dodge for 8s of stability

That’d be a glitch if you can. DS immediately drops stablity for me when I roll out of it.

I think we should make it clear that we’re only discussing 1v1’s. No one is interested in team fighting. As a mesmer, two of my main downed abilities require a target to activate.

It’s pretty clear that stealth stomping is something that the designers overlooked and which will be fixed soon.

bhagwad.4281:

I think we should make it clear that we’re only discussing 1v1’s. No one is interested in team fighting. As a mesmer, two of my main downed abilities require a target to activate.

So…

As a Mesmer, what are your thoughts on Distortion Stomp, Stability Stomp and Haste Stomp (Since Mesmers have access to all 3 as well as Stealth Stomp) keeping in mind what not only your class can do against them but also every other class can do against it be they downed or not?

Sebrent.3625:

oZii.2864:

Sebrent.3625:

Everything has a counter.

Stability finisher? Fear (it’s a condition) or Stealth the downed player
Stealth? Do lots of damage in that area or use an area/conal CC/fear
Distortion? Stealth the downed player.

I’ll admit my Mesmer is the best at this with distortion shatter … but it also requires me to invest a full set of illusions and a long cooldown. If you can’t stealth your friend, his butt belongs to my spike.

Umm you can’t be feared when you have stability up try again. Fear counts as a condition and CC.

Are you 100% sure on this? I was pretty positive that you could be feared even with stablity.

You can… Just not by skills which cause fear.
(might sound strange, but trust me, it’s true. With stability on you, you can be feared by skills which do not fear you.)

Sphinx asks: “What can fear you when it doesn’t fear you and even pierce stability?”

It’s basically one of the Sphinx’s favourite riddles after “Why should I let you live?”

Taril.8619:

bhagwad.4281:

I think we should make it clear that we’re only discussing 1v1’s. No one is interested in team fighting. As a mesmer, two of my main downed abilities require a target to activate.

So…

As a Mesmer, what are your thoughts on Distortion Stomp, Stability Stomp and Haste Stomp (Since Mesmers have access to all 3 as well as Stealth Stomp) keeping in mind what not only your class can do against them but also every other class can do against it be they downed or not?

Simple answer – none of them are spammable. These are skills with long cooldowns that require me to carefully save them till needed. Not like stealth which thieves can enter into at any time.

Distortion – 60 secs CD (plus you need at least 2 illusions to make it last 3 seconds with the illusionary personna trait)

Haste (I assume time warp) – 210 seconds

Stability stomp? You mean mantra of concentration? – You’re joking right?

Also, both haste stomp and stability stomp have counters in that I can target them via my downed skills no matter how fast or how…stable.

Stealth stomp has counters. You gotta use knockbacks or knockdowns…

Just nerf it tho. Might as well just remove the stealth key from the thief so everyone can go around killing them.

Let’s punish any player who decides to play this class because we all hate stealthing.

swinsk.6410:

Stealth stomp has counters. You gotta use knockbacks or knockdowns…

Just nerf it tho. Might as well just remove the stealth key from the thief so everyone can go around killing them.

Let’s punish any player who decides to play this class because we all hate stealthing.

Knockback or knockdowns….when I myself am in a downed state as a mesmer? Are you high sir?

bhagwad.4281:

Simple answer – none of them are spammable. These are skills with long cooldowns that require me to carefully save them till needed. Not like stealth which thieves can enter into at any time.

What does that matter if you only care for 1v1? Blowing a cooldown to achieve a stomp which has little to no counter.

Unless you were infact talking about team fighting in which Stealth Stomp is easily counterable.

Stability stomp? You mean mantra of concentration? – You’re joking right?

I said that Mesmers have access to Stability stomp, I never mentioned how viable running with Mantra of Concentration was.

Also, both haste stomp and stability stomp have counters in that I can target them via my downed skills no matter how fast or how…stable.

Note the part when I asked about not just how you as a Mesmer deal with these stomps, but how you feel about other classes defences against what you have the capacity to do as a mesmer (A lot of classes use CC to avoid stomps, which don’t work against Distortion/Stability stomps for example)

Taril.8619:

bhagwad.4281:

Simple answer – none of them are spammable. These are skills with long cooldowns that require me to carefully save them till needed. Not like stealth which thieves can enter into at any time.

What does that matter if you only care for 1v1? Blowing a cooldown to achieve a stomp which has little to no counter.

Unless you were infact talking about team fighting in which Stealth Stomp is easily counterable.

Stability stomp? You mean mantra of concentration? – You’re joking right?

I said that Mesmers have access to Stability stomp, I never mentioned how viable running with Mantra of Concentration was.

Also, both haste stomp and stability stomp have counters in that I can target them via my downed skills no matter how fast or how…stable.

Note the part when I asked about not just how you as a Mesmer deal with these stomps, but how you feel about other classes defences against what you have the capacity to do as a mesmer (A lot of classes use CC to avoid stomps, which don’t work against Distortion/Stability stomps for example)

It means I had to save my skills for after the thief is downed rather than during the fight. That is not a consideration for thieves who can easily stealth regardless with no downsides and no opportunity cost.

It’s ok to be invulnerable or untouchable or stable for a short while provided those skills are rarely used and you have to save them up. It’s not acceptable for something like a stealth stomp to be so easily available to a thief with no consequences (read opportunity costs)

bhagwad.4281:

It means I had to save my skills for after the thief is downed rather than during the fight.

Well, you technically need only 1 skill to be available to guarantee a stomp.

Considering most Mesmers tend to run with Decoy + Mass Invis/Time Warp + some way of getting illusions out fast (Mirror Image being common, especially for shatter builds)

Unless you’re saying that in a 1v1 you always need to pop nearly every utility and your elite skill against every class (Note: I’m considering more than just Thief vs Mesmer fights when regarding balance of abilities and combos that are available across multiple professions)

That is not a consideration for thieves who can easily stealth regardless with no downsides and no opportunity cost.

Opportunity cost for stealth stomp on a thief:

• Not having been in stealth for at least 3 seconds prior (Revealed)
• Access to stealth (Be it spending initiative on CnD the downed target (Can be interrupted to delay stealth), spending initiative on BP > HS combo (Can be interrupted to delay stealth), using a 40 second cooldown, using a 60 second cooldown or using a 30 second cooldown heal skill (Can be interrupted to delay stealth))
• Needs to ensure they have enough health to survive stomping (It’s quite possible to be downed if trying to stealth stomp at low health/with lots of conditions on)

The downside will be that thieves will be revealed after stealth stomping/if interrupted mid-stomp in the next patch.

I like how you say that being able to get nigh uncounterable stomps off is okay provided they come from situational skills that may or may not be used in combat yet don’t take into consideration that for a thief to get stealth stomps off they often will need to save up Initiative which is used for most of their damage, a thief will tend to have low initiative by the end of a fight due to needing to use it for getting to the end of a fight.

So let’s get this straight
Thief: Stealth stomp, (stability stomp), haste stomp
Ele: Stability stomp, invul stomp, reflect stomp, havesumlava(!), bonus points if he invul stomps you while he is downed himself
Engi: Stability stomp, invul stomp, stealth stomp
Mesmer: Stealth stomp, (stability stomp), (invul stomp)
Warrior: Semi-invul-stomp, stability stomp, haste stomp, 100bladeyoface(!)
Necro: Shroud-stomp, dropawellonyoulol
Ranger: 15 sec cd haste stomps, stability stomp, sayhellotomylittlefriend
Guardian: Aegis stomp, stability stomp, spinninroundandround, tenthousandfists

Bottom line, there is plenty of these around and stealth is by far not the hardest to counter(try countering a tiny dunk without any movement skills)

Taril.8619:

bhagwad.4281:

It means I had to save my skills for after the thief is downed rather than during the fight.

Well, you technically need only 1 skill to be available to guarantee a stomp.

Considering most Mesmers tend to run with Decoy + Mass Invis/Time Warp + some way of getting illusions out fast (Mirror Image being common, especially for shatter builds)

Unless you’re saying that in a 1v1 you always need to pop nearly every utility and your elite skill against every class (Note: I’m considering more than just Thief vs Mesmer fights when regarding balance of abilities and combos that are available across multiple professions)

That is not a consideration for thieves who can easily stealth regardless with no downsides and no opportunity cost.

Opportunity cost for stealth stomp on a thief:

• Not having been in stealth for at least 3 seconds prior (Revealed)
• Access to stealth (Be it spending initiative on CnD the downed target (Can be interrupted to delay stealth), spending initiative on BP > HS combo (Can be interrupted to delay stealth), using a 40 second cooldown, using a 60 second cooldown or using a 30 second cooldown heal skill (Can be interrupted to delay stealth))
• Needs to ensure they have enough health to survive stomping (It’s quite possible to be downed if trying to stealth stomp at low health/with lots of conditions on)

The downside will be that thieves will be revealed after stealth stomping/if interrupted mid-stomp in the next patch.

I like how you say that being able to get nigh uncounterable stomps off is okay provided they come from situational skills that may or may not be used in combat yet don’t take into consideration that for a thief to get stealth stomps off they often will need to save up Initiative which is used for most of their damage, a thief will tend to have low initiative by the end of a fight due to needing to use it for getting to the end of a fight.

Regardless of whether I can use the skill during a fight or not, the fact of the matter is that I consciously save that up for that one situation. And if an opponent is down, chances are that I’ve just shattered my illusions so I’m left with exactly one second with personna trait. For classes that have interrupts like guardians, rangers, and sometimes engineers, I need to anticipate when they’re going to use it and time my one second. That takes skill and often doesn’t work.

Not to mention that if it’s a thief, mesmer, or ele they can avoid the initial stomp while my CD is blown.

The initiative costs for stealth however are trivial. The “costs” that you’ve outlined vastly outweigh the benefits. And in a 1v1 thief mesmer fight if the mes is downed, the stealth completely negates any damage whatsoever even if they have just 100 health left making the downed skill state a joke.

This is clearly unintended.

I find stealth stomping far superior compared to stability/mist form/elixir s stomping because all those skills are on huge cooldowns while stealth is not. You’ll eventually miss those skills for your own defence when things go bad. And they take a utility slot while stealth… well not.