Guild Wars 2

Then why thief is the only profession to have special attacks from stealth?
I mean, the class is balanced around it, with “normal skills” toned down to compensate the powerful stealth skills.
So why are we the only profession with a hard counter to our mechanic?
Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?

If the “puff” part of stealth is too strong, let reveal affects only visibility so we can have the stealth buff (with all of our skills) but be visibile to foes.

And for the “chain backstab” problem, we can have 2 types of reveal. Self reveal, applied after a hit from stealth, that will work like it is now, and the reveal applied from others that will let us access stealth abilities while not being stealthed.

Or they could change the revealing skills currently to dodgeable AoE skills with an animation that don’t reveal but only drop stealth of the targets

Even though being visible while still having access to the stealth skills could be a nice mechanic as well imo

They then should probably be made stronger by giving them other effects as well… and a profession (Engineer in this case) shouldn’t have access to 2 different skills and 1 trait that currently reveal…

You mentioned 2 possible solutions which I thought of as well. It could stay the way it is but then stealth skills should be much more rewarding (dmg increase, daze duration increase, buffs or other effects). They even said on stream that other professions will get access to reveal-traits or -abilities.

you forgot that our whole trait line is based on stealth…. i wish i had a 900 range, aoe spell on 20 sec CD that prevented mesmers from using shatter and creating clones for 6 sec

Cynz.9437:

you forgot that our whole trait line is based on stealth…. i wish i had a 900 range, aoe spell on 20 sec CD that prevented mesmers from using shatter and creating clones for 6 sec

Yeah, while you lose your stealth for 6 seconds you still have blind spam, shadowsteps, steal interrupt through stability. Im sorry your glorious stealth got counter but you have still a lot defences and after 6 seconds you can disappear again +15 seconds and full reset the fight.

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

you forgot that our whole trait line is based on stealth…. i wish i had a 900 range, aoe spell on 20 sec CD that prevented mesmers from using shatter and creating clones for 6 sec

Yeah, while you lose your stealth for 6 seconds you still have blind spam, shadowsteps, steal interrupt through stability. Im sorry your glorious stealth got counter but you have still a lot defences and after 6 seconds you can disappear again +15 seconds and full reset the fight.

blind spam doesn’t exist, few shadow shots and you are sitting at 0 ini… besides half of engi spells are not even affected by blind + they have enough ways to (auto) cleanse blind

shadowstep is long CD and won’t prevent engi from hitting me

and how will steal help me vs engi exactly? please elaborate

lot of defenses? like what?

you forget engis have other ways to reveal as well….

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

you forgot that our whole trait line is based on stealth…. i wish i had a 900 range, aoe spell on 20 sec CD that prevented mesmers from using shatter and creating clones for 6 sec

Yeah, while you lose your stealth for 6 seconds you still have blind spam, shadowsteps, steal interrupt through stability. Im sorry your glorious stealth got counter but you have still a lot defences and after 6 seconds you can disappear again +15 seconds and full reset the fight.

Obviously a troll.

Going by the whiff I just caught of bad opinions and dangerously high levels of unwarranted self-importance, I take it another non-thief player has wandered into a thief thread to “set us straight” on how we’re actually OP and everything is fine?

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

you forgot that our whole trait line is based on stealth…. i wish i had a 900 range, aoe spell on 20 sec CD that prevented mesmers from using shatter and creating clones for 6 sec

Yeah, while you lose your stealth for 6 seconds you still have blind spam, shadowsteps, steal interrupt through stability. Im sorry your glorious stealth got counter but you have still a lot defences and after 6 seconds you can disappear again +15 seconds and full reset the fight.

So what do you say is that out of stealth we can only blind or shadowstep away for surviving. Thanks for proving that we need stealth for setting up our attacks or it’s better to run away. The new DD specialization might come in hand but having again only 1 viable build to be on par with other classes when others have 2/3 viable choices is not what I call balance

Kolly.9872:

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

you forgot that our whole trait line is based on stealth…. i wish i had a 900 range, aoe spell on 20 sec CD that prevented mesmers from using shatter and creating clones for 6 sec

Yeah, while you lose your stealth for 6 seconds you still have blind spam, shadowsteps, steal interrupt through stability. Im sorry your glorious stealth got counter but you have still a lot defences and after 6 seconds you can disappear again +15 seconds and full reset the fight.

So what do you say is that out of stealth we can only blind or shadowstep away for surviving. Thanks for proving that we need stealth for setting up our attacks or it’s better to run away. The new DD specialization might come in hand but having again only 1 viable build to be on par with other classes when others have 2/3 viable choices is not what I call balance

I mean you have to kite or run when you are revealed, then just stealth and reset fight. Yeah, thief need some buffs but D/P thief is not one. That spec is OP if you dont have any counterplay against their stealth and Shadow Arts line.

He actually thinks thieves have sustain like other classes. LOL.

Cynz.9437:

He actually thinks thieves have sustain like other classes. LOL.

You dont have sustain but you have stealth + regen with stealth+ condi remove with stealth and best mobility in the game with decent damage. You cant have all =)

Babylon.8972:

You dont have sustain but you have stealth + regen with stealth+ condi remove with stealth and best mobility in the game with decent damage. You cant have all =)

Where, pray tell, does this regen come from? The healing skill no one can slot because Withdraw is mandatory (and that would only heal you for 540 total anyway)? Or maybe it’s the completely non-viable Shadow Arts trait that no one ever takes? Perhaps it comes from the trait in Acrobatics, well known as a worthwhile and competitive trait line?

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

He actually thinks thieves have sustain like other classes. LOL.

You dont have sustain but you have stealth + regen with stealth+ condi remove with stealth and best mobility in the game with decent damage. You cant have all =)

But wait i can’t gain stealth because engi and other classes have revealed spells

I can’t regen w/o stealth and frankly that regen is quite low and won#t save me from all the dmg flying around.

Condi removal….yeah about that one…. 3 sec stealth to remove 1 condi…. engis on average apply like 5 different condis…. i have to sit 15 sec in stealth to clear them……

Thieves have best vertical mobility but by no means “best” mobility….

Define decent dmg? Are we talking about 3k backstabs (because this is normal, 7-9k backstabs require might stacks, executioner, vuln stacks and squishy target)?

Have it all? Oh rly? Thief is ONLY class in this game right now that has to trade off dmg for CC, has to trade off defensives for mobility, has to trade off CC for dmg because of initiative and the way stealth works. NO OTHER CLASS DOES. Do you see thieves spamming stuns and doing high dmg and having multiple defensives with ports? NO.
Unless there is some secret build that can do it. Please show me.

Babylon.8972:

You cant have all =)

No, we can’t—and that’s fine. The real problem is how many other professions can. But I’m sure a Mesmer main such as yourself wouldn’t know anything about that, eh?

Told ya, any non-thief blind hater will tell you to l2p and complain about how stealth is uncounterable or GOD MODE!!11one…

Good players who already know the state of thieves are feeling for us, just as much as we are, don’t worry.

Thief should be the only class with stealth.

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

He actually thinks thieves have sustain like other classes. LOL.

You dont have sustain but you have stealth + regen with stealth+ condi remove with stealth and best mobility in the game with decent damage. You cant have all =)

And why our only way to have regen, condi removed, and some survivability must have a hard counter and other professions don’t?
We are still with absolutely no protection and only 1 elite for stability.
Our only way ti have some damage mitigation is….try to guess… While in stealth, and that will go away with stealth counter.
I want a skill that make any profession be a sitting duck for 6s every 20.
So give thieves a 6s Moa on 20s CD.

Cynz.9437:

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

He actually thinks thieves have sustain like other classes. LOL.

You dont have sustain but you have stealth + regen with stealth+ condi remove with stealth and best mobility in the game with decent damage. You cant have all =)

But wait i can’t gain stealth because engi and other classes have revealed spells

I can’t regen w/o stealth and frankly that regen is quite low and won#t save me from all the dmg flying around.

Condi removal….yeah about that one…. 3 sec stealth to remove 1 condi…. engis on average apply like 5 different condis…. i have to sit 15 sec in stealth to clear them……

Thieves have best vertical mobility but by no means “best” mobility….

Define decent dmg? Are we talking about 3k backstabs (because this is normal, 7-9k backstabs require might stacks, executioner, vuln stacks and squishy target)?

Have it all? Oh rly? Thief is ONLY class in this game right now that has to trade off dmg for CC, has to trade off defensives for mobility, has to trade off CC for dmg because of initiative and the way stealth works. NO OTHER CLASS DOES. Do you see thieves spamming stuns and doing high dmg and having multiple defensives with ports? NO.
Unless there is some secret build that can do it. Please show me.

^nailed it dude!
It has to be ignorance or just trolling by Babylon.8972… It would be the same if steal disables F1-F5 from engie. And after complaining that this would be op cause loss of survivalbilty and dmg, I would answer: “hey, you can still block, knockback and use your elite… You can’t have it all”

MatthiasL.5346:

Cynz.9437:

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

He actually thinks thieves have sustain like other classes. LOL.

You dont have sustain but you have stealth + regen with stealth+ condi remove with stealth and best mobility in the game with decent damage. You cant have all =)

But wait i can’t gain stealth because engi and other classes have revealed spells

I can’t regen w/o stealth and frankly that regen is quite low and won#t save me from all the dmg flying around.

Condi removal….yeah about that one…. 3 sec stealth to remove 1 condi…. engis on average apply like 5 different condis…. i have to sit 15 sec in stealth to clear them……

Thieves have best vertical mobility but by no means “best” mobility….

Define decent dmg? Are we talking about 3k backstabs (because this is normal, 7-9k backstabs require might stacks, executioner, vuln stacks and squishy target)?

Have it all? Oh rly? Thief is ONLY class in this game right now that has to trade off dmg for CC, has to trade off defensives for mobility, has to trade off CC for dmg because of initiative and the way stealth works. NO OTHER CLASS DOES. Do you see thieves spamming stuns and doing high dmg and having multiple defensives with ports? NO.
Unless there is some secret build that can do it. Please show me.

^nailed it dude!
It has to be ignorance or just trolling by Babylon.8972… It would be the same if steal disables F1-F5 from engie. And after complaining that this would be op cause loss of survivalbilty and dmg, I would answer: “hey, you can still block, knockback and use your elite… You can’t have it all”

This is actually something I’ve suggested in the PvP forum under one of the topics:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Request-In-light-of-the-many-reveal-effects/first#post5507833

Successful Steal: Shuts down opponent “F skills” for 4-6 seconds.

Its only fair, am i right?

^You are absolutely right! Nice suggestion by the way ;-)

Yeah, its very sad thiefs cant be anymore class with no counterplay. Year ago thieves can disengage with stealth any fight they wanted, they could reset fight with stealth whenever they wanted, they were allowed to stay invisible for 20 seconds and wait all cd’s recharged. Its not anymore possible and its very healthy change for pvp balance

Daendur.2357:

Then why thief is the only profession to have special attacks from stealth?
I mean, the class is balanced around it, with “normal skills” toned down to compensate the powerful stealth skills.
So why are we the only profession with a hard counter to our mechanic?
Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?

If the “puff” part of stealth is too strong, let reveal affects only visibility so we can have the stealth buff (with all of our skills) but be visibile to foes.

And for the “chain backstab” problem, we can have 2 types of reveal. Self reveal, applied after a hit from stealth, that will work like it is now, and the reveal applied from others that will let us access stealth abilities while not being stealthed.

maybe !
Devs are adding releaving skills because they will remove the revealed debuff from our own skill.

Babylon.8972:

Yeah, its very sad thiefs cant be anymore class with no counterplay. Year ago thieves can disengage with stealth any fight they wanted, they could reset fight with stealth whenever they wanted, they were allowed to stay invisible for 20 seconds and wait all cd’s recharged. Its not anymore possible and its very healthy change for pvp balance

In advance don’t bother with this guy it’s not worth it.

azmodey.4576:

Daendur.2357:

Then why thief is the only profession to have special attacks from stealth?
I mean, the class is balanced around it, with “normal skills” toned down to compensate the powerful stealth skills.
So why are we the only profession with a hard counter to our mechanic?
Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?

If the “puff” part of stealth is too strong, let reveal affects only visibility so we can have the stealth buff (with all of our skills) but be visibile to foes.

And for the “chain backstab” problem, we can have 2 types of reveal. Self reveal, applied after a hit from stealth, that will work like it is now, and the reveal applied from others that will let us access stealth abilities while not being stealthed.

maybe !
Devs are adding releaving skills because they will remove the revealed debuff from our own skill.

At least put revealed back to 3 sec in PvP and fix SA for ×/d sets. “He who knows his name” is still abusing his stealth on the subject.

Spot the guy who gets destroyed daily by Thieves even though we’re in awful state right now.

Sweetmate.5903:

Spot the guy who gets destroyed daily by Thieves even though we’re in awful state right now.

I know, I know! o///

Babylon.8972

GM trait in S/a line replacing CIS , On gaining stealth thief remains in stealth until he attacks or is revealed. They can no longer claim “no counters” so they should have to use those counters.

Daendur.2357:

Then why thief is the only profession to have special attacks from stealth?
I mean, the class is balanced around it, with “normal skills” toned down to compensate the powerful stealth skills.
So why are we the only profession with a hard counter to our mechanic?
Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?

If the “puff” part of stealth is too strong, let reveal affects only visibility so we can have the stealth buff (with all of our skills) but be visibile to foes.

And for the “chain backstab” problem, we can have 2 types of reveal. Self reveal, applied after a hit from stealth, that will work like it is now, and the reveal applied from others that will let us access stealth abilities while not being stealthed.

“Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?”
I gusse you missed the part where every profession got atleast one reflection skill, meny of them as low CD weapon skills. Same here, range is not ranger mechanic but LB rapid fire (pewpew) will suffer the most. They even use LB rapid fire on golems for demonsration of the new reflction skills.

Babylon.8972:

Yeah, its very sad thiefs cant be anymore class with no counterplay. Year ago thieves can disengage with stealth any fight they wanted, they could reset fight with stealth whenever they wanted, they were allowed to stay invisible for 20 seconds and wait all cd’s recharged. Its not anymore possible and its very healthy change for pvp balance

So we can’t be properly balanced because we used to be too good at running away a year ago.

Seems about right.

LughLongArm.5460:

Daendur.2357:

Then why thief is the only profession to have special attacks from stealth?
I mean, the class is balanced around it, with “normal skills” toned down to compensate the powerful stealth skills.
So why are we the only profession with a hard counter to our mechanic?
Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?

If the “puff” part of stealth is too strong, let reveal affects only visibility so we can have the stealth buff (with all of our skills) but be visibile to foes.

And for the “chain backstab” problem, we can have 2 types of reveal. Self reveal, applied after a hit from stealth, that will work like it is now, and the reveal applied from others that will let us access stealth abilities while not being stealthed.

“Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?”
I gusse you missed the part where every profession got atleast one reflection skill, meny of them as low CD weapon skills. Same here, range is not ranger mechanic but LB rapid fire (pewpew) will suffer the most. They even use LB rapid fire on golems for demonsration of the new reflction skills.

so what ?
i’m not saying BS must be unblockable… the can block or pop immunities, the same way some skills are projectiles reflect. it’s really different from taking LB away for 6s and tell the ranger “well you can try to run…”

How would you discuss ANET’s position that stealth had no hard counters beyond reveal, and that adding more stealth required more reveal for balance. Things definitely need to be addressed, but the debate as it stands is frustration that the hard counters cannot be nullified.

Daendur.2357:

LughLongArm.5460:

Daendur.2357:

Then why thief is the only profession to have special attacks from stealth?
I mean, the class is balanced around it, with “normal skills” toned down to compensate the powerful stealth skills.
So why are we the only profession with a hard counter to our mechanic?
Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?

If the “puff” part of stealth is too strong, let reveal affects only visibility so we can have the stealth buff (with all of our skills) but be visibile to foes.

And for the “chain backstab” problem, we can have 2 types of reveal. Self reveal, applied after a hit from stealth, that will work like it is now, and the reveal applied from others that will let us access stealth abilities while not being stealthed.

“Everyone suffers from stun, daze, KD, KB etc etc but there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate or a ranger pewpew, so why in the earth there must be something that prevents a backstab?”
I gusse you missed the part where every profession got atleast one reflection skill, meny of them as low CD weapon skills. Same here, range is not ranger mechanic but LB rapid fire (pewpew) will suffer the most. They even use LB rapid fire on golems for demonsration of the new reflction skills.

so what ?
i’m not saying BS must be unblockable… the can block or pop immunities, the same way some skills are projectiles reflect. it’s really different from taking LB away for 6s and tell the ranger “well you can try to run…”

“… the can block or pop immunities, the same way some skills are projectiles reflect. it’s really different from taking LB away for 6s and tell the ranger “well you can try to run”

Hehe, This is what i call “confusion”. But all siriously, youmake it sound like u cant do anything out of stealth while lots of good theif builds doesnt realy on stealth that much, like the s/d build.

LughLongArm.5460:

like the s/d build.

Uh, that’s “a lot”.
Pls try to understand me, what i want to say is that even if other professions have access to stealth (even better than thief) we are the only one with 1 trait line dedicated to stealth (which provides our best way to survive) and weapon skills, that are taken into consideration balancing the profession.
Taking them away, to compensate a mess done with stealth to other professions is just not fair, since they are unbalancing thief.

Daendur.2357:

LughLongArm.5460:

like the s/d build.

Uh, that’s “a lot”.
Pls try to understand me, what i want to say is that even if other professions have access to stealth (even better than thief) we are the only one with 1 trait line dedicated to stealth (which provides our best way to survive) and weapon skills, that are taken into consideration balancing the profession.
Taking them away, to compensate a mess done with stealth to other professions is just not fair, since they are unbalancing thief.

I really do, don’t get me wrong, I do think thieves are lacking the teeth they once had. But i don’t think the stealth counters are the reason.

LughLongArm.5460:

Daendur.2357:

LughLongArm.5460:

like the s/d build.

Uh, that’s “a lot”.
Pls try to understand me, what i want to say is that even if other professions have access to stealth (even better than thief) we are the only one with 1 trait line dedicated to stealth (which provides our best way to survive) and weapon skills, that are taken into consideration balancing the profession.
Taking them away, to compensate a mess done with stealth to other professions is just not fair, since they are unbalancing thief.

I really do, don’t get me wrong, I do think thieves are lacking the teeth they once had. But i don’t think the stealth counters are the reason.

I will be totally fine if they’ll give us something else. more boons, more stability, protection etc etc like every other profession. But they should remake the thief, a thief 2.0. DD will not be enough (at least from bwe2).

Sagat.3285:

Babylon.8972:

Yeah, its very sad thiefs cant be anymore class with no counterplay. Year ago thieves can disengage with stealth any fight they wanted, they could reset fight with stealth whenever they wanted, they were allowed to stay invisible for 20 seconds and wait all cd’s recharged. Its not anymore possible and its very healthy change for pvp balance

In advance don’t bother with this guy it’s not worth it.

Explain why.

Daendur.2357:

there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate

Hello, my name is DODGE.

The problem with stealth is that there is little to no counter to it. Reveal will provide a hard counter (too hard, by the looks of it) and, of course, thieves will have to be completely rebalanced to take this into account. Otherwise, it will be seriously nerfing thieves.

But look on the bright side of life, this will seriously kitten Mesmers

Aenesthesia.1697:

Daendur.2357:

there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate

Hello, my name is DODGE.

The problem with stealth is that there is little to no counter to it. Reveal will provide a hard counter (too hard, by the looks of it) and, of course, thieves will have to be completely rebalanced to take this into account. Otherwise, it will be seriously nerfing thieves.

But look on the bright side of life, this will seriously kitten Mesmers

Actually, Daendur is right. There is no skill that prevents the use of a Warrior’s Eviscerate. Dodge is something you use when Eviscerate has been used and is coming at you.

The only thing that could prevent the use of Eviscerate would be a stun, but this pales in comparison to preventing the use of Backstab.

The argument against stealth doesn’t come from a balance standpoint regardless of how people frame the complaint. It boils down to no one enjoys getting hit from stealth and then having to guess where to retaliate. Balanced or not is a totally different animal, it’s just not fun at all trying to guess where someone is. We will never get over this issue and come to a productive conclusion until this is universally accepted……Think about how annoyed you get when you can’t find your car keys……

Why are they giving stealth skill to Mesmer and engineer class? I thought it’s a thief specialized skill.

Kocoff.7582:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Daendur.2357:

there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate

Hello, my name is DODGE.

The problem with stealth is that there is little to no counter to it. Reveal will provide a hard counter (too hard, by the looks of it) and, of course, thieves will have to be completely rebalanced to take this into account. Otherwise, it will be seriously nerfing thieves.

But look on the bright side of life, this will seriously kitten Mesmers

Actually, Daendur is right. There is no skill that prevents the use of a Warrior’s Eviscerate. Dodge is something you use when Eviscerate has been used and is coming at you.

The only thing that could prevent the use of Eviscerate would be a stun, but this pales in comparison to preventing the use of Backstab.

Holy christ, you understood exactly what he meant. Eviscerate already has 20000 more ways to counter.

Stealth isn’t “our” mechanic. it never was, and never will be unique to the thief. The mesmer, engi, and ranger have had access to it since the betas, just not as much. The attacks are our mechanic, NOT stealth. It’s balanced and fun to be able to prevent a target from entering stealth; doing so to PU mesmers is incredibly satisfying. Preventing going invisible is one thing as it also requires a sacrifice to one’s build to slot in, too; denying essential damage and utility by forcing the disablement of stealth attacks crucial to the thief isn’t healthy, though.

Even if most characters don’t run reveal, how many does it take in a WvW zerg running reveal to mess up stealth thieves in WvW? 10%? 5%?

Aenesthesia.1697:

Daendur.2357:

there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate

Hello, my name is DODGE.

The problem with stealth is that there is little to no counter to it. Reveal will provide a hard counter (too hard, by the looks of it) and, of course, thieves will have to be completely rebalanced to take this into account. Otherwise, it will be seriously nerfing thieves.

But look on the bright side of life, this will seriously kitten Mesmers

Your post makes no sense the devs buffed PU and are choosing to bring more stealth while nerfing thief in the process and introducing more reveal at the same time. There is no reasonable balance at all reveal hardcounters thief not just stealth.

Sagat.3285:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Daendur.2357:

there isn’t a skill that prevents a warrior’s eviscerate

Hello, my name is DODGE.

The problem with stealth is that there is little to no counter to it. Reveal will provide a hard counter (too hard, by the looks of it) and, of course, thieves will have to be completely rebalanced to take this into account. Otherwise, it will be seriously nerfing thieves.

But look on the bright side of life, this will seriously kitten Mesmers

Your post makes no sense the devs buffed PU and are choosing to bring more stealth while nerfing thief in the process and introducing more reveal at the same time. There is no reasonable balance at all reveal hardcounters thief not just stealth.

It is because in devs perfect imaginary (and imo rather idiotic) world thieves should be using DrD build with evades and not stealth……. They apprently thought it would be good idea (for marketing) to punish/grief all thief players that use stealth based builds.

It is idiotic to think that thieves are allowed to use only one playstyle per patch. Also even from a marketing point of view, destroying one class customization for giving visibility to the new shiny spec, forcing everyone to buy and using it, is not a good move. A lot of people I know that are all veterans with 3 years of gw2 experience are not even going to buy the expansion till there will be good balance, matchmaking and a working soloQ. So forcing this people out of the game is not good for the pvp community that is still suffering in numbers

Kolly.9872:

It is idiotic to think that thieves are allowed to use only one playstyle per patch. Also even from a marketing point of view, destroying one class customization for giving visibility to the new shiny spec, forcing everyone to buy and using it, is not a good move. A lot of people I know that are all veterans with 3 years of gw2 experience are not even going to buy the expansion till there will be good balance, matchmaking and a working soloQ. So forcing this people out of the game is not good for the pvp community that is still suffering in numbers

This is why I got a refund.

Kolly.9872:

It is idiotic to think that thieves are allowed to use only one playstyle per patch. Also even from a marketing point of view, destroying one class customization for giving visibility to the new shiny spec, forcing everyone to buy and using it, is not a good move. A lot of people I know that are all veterans with 3 years of gw2 experience are not even going to buy the expansion till there will be good balance, matchmaking and a working soloQ. So forcing this people out of the game is not good for the pvp community that is still suffering in numbers

See that’s the veterans.

New players don’t know any of that. And I’m getting a strong feeling that new players is all that they really care about. Which makes sense.

Zero Day.2594:

Kolly.9872:

It is idiotic to think that thieves are allowed to use only one playstyle per patch. Also even from a marketing point of view, destroying one class customization for giving visibility to the new shiny spec, forcing everyone to buy and using it, is not a good move. A lot of people I know that are all veterans with 3 years of gw2 experience are not even going to buy the expansion till there will be good balance, matchmaking and a working soloQ. So forcing this people out of the game is not good for the pvp community that is still suffering in numbers

See that’s the veterans.

New players don’t know any of that. And I’m getting a strong feeling that new players is all that they really care about. Which makes sense.

Thief is not noob friendly though neither is the “+1 and decapping role”. Noob thief vs noob anything will lose the easier choice for a new player would be to not play thief thus ignoring DD leaving DD to a few veterans or some fanboys. Most of the news one are also f2p accounts so they would rather switch class then spend money at least the sane ones. There is no way around of this making sense unless I am missing a big scheme.