Guild Wars 2

Make it so that a thief cannot be invisible the whole time and issue is balanced.

These complaint threads are getting a lot less imaginative. Are you even trying anymore?

Leriff.8362:

These complaint threads are getting a lot less imaginative. Are you even trying anymore?

I’m going to venture a guess that his post comes from experience in wvw where culling does indeed make his point 100% valid and true.

That’s not stealth making the thief OP, that’s culling, and it happens to everyone, stealth or not.

Leriff.8362:

That’s not stealth making the thief OP, that’s culling, and it happens to everyone, stealth or not.

Hmm, sorry but my warrior, guardian, ranger, necro can’t become invisible at an incredibly high rate to basically USE culling to keep me invisble 90+% of the time.

My thief can.
To a lesser extent so can my mesmer.

Yup, culling affects fast moving zergs here and there for sure.
Thieves use culling at will.

Braxxus.2904:

Leriff.8362:

That’s not stealth making the thief OP, that’s culling, and it happens to everyone, stealth or not.

Hmm, sorry but my warrior, guardian, ranger, necro can’t become invisible at an incredibly high rate to basically USE culling to keep me invisble 90+% of the time.

My thief can.
To a lesser extent so can my mesmer.

Yup, culling affects fast moving zergs here and there for sure.
Thieves use culling at will.

Not sure if its culling because I was fighting one on one as a mesmer. I think I’m a pretty skilled player have not lost one on one to anyone else except tie against condition heavy build which is what my build is bad against. However I had 3 phantasm and a npc flag against one thief. Problem is he did not stay visible for enough time for even my phantasms to attack. I would say he was invisible for 90% of the time. Nothing I can do. If he is invisible I can’t attack him.

Nothing I can do. If he is invisible I can’t attack him.

You can. You can attack a stealthed unit, though you can’t actively target it. However, if it is a culling issue, (and many classes exploit this, so this isn’t a thief only tip. Some mesmers throw two portals onto the same spot to rapidly switch and create loading problems, for example. Doesn’t always work, but is really dumb.) you can tab target them if they are “visible” but culled. When someone goes into stealth, spam the hell out of tab.

Alex Behemoth.4952:

Braxxus.2904:

Leriff.8362:

That’s not stealth making the thief OP, that’s culling, and it happens to everyone, stealth or not.

Hmm, sorry but my warrior, guardian, ranger, necro can’t become invisible at an incredibly high rate to basically USE culling to keep me invisble 90+% of the time.

My thief can.
To a lesser extent so can my mesmer.

Yup, culling affects fast moving zergs here and there for sure.
Thieves use culling at will.

Not sure if its culling because I was fighting one on one as a mesmer. I think I’m a pretty skilled player have not lost one on one to anyone else except tie against condition heavy build which is what my build is bad against. However I had 3 phantasm and a npc flag against one thief. Problem is he did not stay visible for enough time for even my phantasms to attack. I would say he was invisible for 90% of the time. Nothing I can do. If he is invisible I can’t attack him.

I call BS.

Ur clones will auto attack him AS SOON AS he comes out of stealth, even if hes not visible due culling, they will still attack him the second he comes out of stealth.

Stealth, like it is now, in my opinion, is completely broken.

Actually, once a Thief go into stealth, there is no way to know for sure where he is or where he’s heading to, giving an huge advantage.
You can swing your melee weapon (assuming you are running one) in the air hoping to get the thief, but there is absolutely no real way to know for sure where he is and that’s is a real balance issue in my opinion.

To me, stealth should be more counterable. I mean, once a Thief go in stealth, there should be a way to realize where the thief is.
For instance, once you hit a thief with any of your skills or the thief is close to you for a not-too-short period of time, you should be able to see its silhouette for an istant. Obviously, this should be counterbalanced giving more stealth duration.

In this way, bad thieves don’t get a real advantage from stealth while good players have a chance to counter stealth and good thieves get advantages due to increased stealth duration, giving more gap to skill floor and ceiling.

Shizzlenit.7648:

I call BS.

Welcome to the thief sub-forum…where it’s non-stop BS and exaggeration.

Alex Behemoth.4952:

Make it so that a thief cannot be invisible the whole time and issue is balanced.

Omg stop cry kid. You all only cry here over forum all time instead of learning better play with your own character. If you think that thief is here mega super OP and can kill alone big army then play him and you will see soon that thief is many aspects very weak.

Taking stealth to thief is TOTAL NONSENSE. Thief without stealth is same like elemetarists without spells or ranger without bow. Stealth is essence of thief class and only defence mechanism. If you dont know, thief is glass cannon which must kill enemy fast or die fast and only defence is stealth. If Anet take stealth from thief away Anet will have to give to thieves SUPER GREAT compensation like double HP or tank skills or something else. Is not possible to have there one class with no defence mechanism.

You kids all time cry here. Thief is glass cannon. You cry that attacks are super OP, then stealth is super OP, backstab is super OP….etc etc tadytadytadyda. So what you want? Easy target for kill or practise target which you can kill with 1-2 shots or WHAT? I know what you want…you want only glass class without damage, stealth, defence mechanisms…etc – you want easy kill enemy.

sorrow.2364:

For instance, once you hit a thief with any of your skills or the thief is close to you for a not-too-short period of time, you should be able to see its silhouette for an istant. Obviously, this should be counterbalanced giving more stealth duration.

In this way, bad thieves don’t get a real advantage from stealth while good players have a chance to counter stealth and good thieves get advantages due to increased stealth duration, giving more gap to skill floor and ceiling.

sure , so players who use minimum details in options should had an disadvantage compared to the rest.
That would be called skill ? In fact in some players opinion they are skilled when they fight in wvw with an 3000 euro pc and kill an enemy with 5 fps . Just for your information, bad player is not an player who don’t react in time when you attack him, is an player who use wrong skill when he fight you, he refuse to help downed ally and he start resurect after he is dead, is an player who spam all his skills and then run away, is an player wich only use dodge to move from 1 location to another… etc

The whole point of a thief is to be stealthy…. I really am saddened by peoples response to this…

kitten it, if we want to make classes more fair then lets make all the classes even:

- Remove stealth on thief
- Remove clones on mesmer
- Remove 100 swords (Or whatever its called) from Warriors
- Remove full heals and barriers from Guardian
- Remove minions from necro
- Remove attunements from elementalists

Seriously, the class is fine. Latency issues exist, sure, but that has nothing to do with the class. Stealth makes thieves who they are, without it, they are a pointless class.

30 second duration on stealth, 15 second cooldown, it turns off on attack or being hit. Problem solved.

The thief class is basically the noobtube of this game. It is designed for less skilled players to feel like they can compete and have fun with more experienced players. The class won’t be nerfed – it’s a marketing tool to include all players, even noobs, in PvP.

buki.3108:

The thief class is basically the noobtube of this game. It is designed for less skilled players to feel like they can compete and have fun with more experienced players. The class won’t be nerfed – it’s a marketing tool to include all players, even noobs, in PvP.

This is a very narrow-minded post. You have obviously never played a thief, and if you have, you haven’t done it well.

The class is not that simple, at least not to those players who are actually good at it. Those thieves that kill you in seconds flat are skilled players using a class that was designed with a lot of potential.

As a thieve myself, I can tell you that I have killed more thieves than I care to share. Most people make them thinking they are going to be OP and win at PvP and end up embarrassing us as a class. I will say that the class does have a lot of advantages and potential, but it’s not like anyone who plays a thief is good at it. I would argue that the warrior is OP because they can have tonnes of HP while still dishing incredible damage. Hell, I had one hit me just yesterday for 13k with kill shot. After the countless nerfs on thieves because of people like you, we barely see over 10k even when we are fully loaded with crit gear and traited for damage.

Thieves are the only class that lacks counter-play. Stealth has no counter – bad design. It reduces the possible actions the opponent can use. 5 > F1 > 1 is not skill.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill

buki.3108:

Thieves are the only class that lacks counter-play. Stealth has no counter – bad design. It reduces the possible actions the opponent can use. 5 > F1 > 1 is not skill.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill

Mesmers can stealth to…. How do you counter a portal bomb?

Guardians have skills that full heal them and remove conditions regularly? How is a thief suppose to effectively kill a class that they have to kill twice?

Too many people are getting upset because some thief rolled up on them, surprised them, and kill them. Because of this, the class is quickly becoming the worst class in the game. Seriously, kids need to settle down and stop getting their feelings hurt because they are dying. There is nothing unfair about it.

Mesmer stealth is not a valid tactic. Every stealth skill has a 30s CD. Not comparable stealth skills.

Obviously a condition build will lose to a condition removal guardian – there’s no counter-play for stupid lol… use a burst build.

Both of these tactics have counter-play – Thief stealth does not.

is not about stealth. is not about skill. Is related with player experience. If an player take thief class and play it – will learn to counter it. Same goes with mesmer, guardian warrior, if i know that guardian can heal 9000 hp every 32 seconds, i will try to use my burst only after he used SY and that 9000 heal.
When i fight vs an thief i know he got shadow refuge and hide in shadows. 80 % of thieves i kill die in shadow refuge , because i am an thief myself and i can predict where he will move in refuge, and i realise if he get downed while in refuge even if i don’t see that. Is no skill in that is only game experience. 3 weeks ago i had real issues with burst warriors, so i played for 8 hours warrior in Spvp , and i know the cooldown of warrior skills now, animation and effect of each skill , wich make it very easy to predict how much time i have betwen his bursts to attack him.
Take an thief, play him for 2 days play at least 4-5 hours backstab thief , 4 hours S/d Thief , 4 -5 hours condition thief, and you will see how you get countered.

buki.3108:

Mesmer stealth is not a valid tactic. Every stealth skill has a 30s CD. Not comparable stealth skills.

Obviously a condition build will lose to a condition removal guardian – there’s no counter-play for stupid lol… use a burst build.

Both of these tactics have counter-play – Thief stealth does not.

Yes it does… It’s called rooting. In a realistic combat scenario, a thief a best, has a 3-5s stealth, and any attack they make in this will break it and have a 3 second debuff before they can reenter stealth. The solution is simple, yet most people don’t think of it because most thieves act quickly, as they should.

First things to note:
1. There’s only 1 stealth that has no cool down, and it requires the thief to be in melee range to use. However, this skill, if broken by damage output, has a 3s reveal buff that wont allow the thief to stealth. The other common stealths, blinding powder, shadow refuge, and the healing one have minimum 45s cooldowns.
Note That I am not including combo fields in this rant.

2. Assuming a thief gets to melee range and stealths, all your have to do it counter twice with a dodge away from them followed up with a root or cripple. Most people don’t think of it, but conditions persist in stealth and channelled skills will continue to attack a thief even if they stealth. Slow them down and keep a distance and they will be stealthing so easily.

3. Shadow Refuge has a notable AoE that is visible for the first 3 seconds. Now I will say, that skill is broken as it applies a 4s stealth which each second that the AoE is visible and after the field goes away the thief can leave the are with another 9s stealth remaining. However, they have to wait till its gone, giving you an opportunity to make some distance.

I have played against many thieves, and I have won and lost. But I can tell you from first hand experience that they are not hard to beat, you just have to use your wits.

Every class can be countered if you know what you are doing.

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

Alex Behemoth.4952:

If he is invisible I can’t attack him.

Number one reason why stealth thieves can be so successful right here. GW2 doesn’t require tab targeting to use skills, and I get the majority of my thief kills by hitting them while they’re stealthed.

Yet the majority of people I encounter when playing as a thief react like NPCs do when presented with stealth. They stand there for a second, then go wander off somewhere because they’re completely helpless without a locked target.

Learn to read stealth and don’t stop fighting when you lose your target. You’ll quickly realize that stealth puts most thieves at a disadvantage if their opponents don’t immediately give up and walk away. Either the thief can attack and risk breaking stealth early, or they’ve committed themselves to not attacking for several seconds. The person fighting the thief therefore has several entire seconds where they are able to attack and their opponent is unable to.

Stealth has a solid meta that goes completely ignored most of the time when people give thieves all the benefits of stealth with none of the detriments by simply giving up when they lose their tab target. Stealth isn’t powerful mechanically, it isn’t uncounterable, it is powerful because so many people don’t even try to counter it.

Immobilise and stand behind him so he cant use Cloak and dagger. What class do you play buki.

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

Stay aggressive and watch for the tells that someone is moving in stealth or that you’ve managed to hit them in stealth. If the stealthed person is intending to stick around and fight then it isn’t hard to find/hurt/kill them. If the stealthed person is using stealth as a means of escape then you’re not going to catch them unless you can match their mobility. Again, if you can match their mobility it isn’t hard to hunt and kill them (particularly because escaping thieves often have a nice visible trail of shadow step graphics on the ground).

Tulisin.6945:

Yet the majority of people I encounter when playing as a thief react like NPCs do when presented with stealth. They stand there for a second, then go wander off somewhere because they’re completely helpless without a locked target.

This is actually a very important note that everyone who is complaining should consider.

What do you do when a thief stealths by you? Do you attempt to attack, or do you just wait around hoping the thief will reappear soon? From my experience, a lot of players will stand there and scratch their heads. They don’t even try to move or counter; this affords me the chance to simply walk behind them and crit for a solid 7-8k and when this occurs, they frantically try to think of what to do next while I continue to wail on them.

This kills the player.

Stealth is countered by not letting them enter it….
D/P is the only one difficult to prevent individually.
Cnd is difficult if you roll with Illusions, pet,minions, turrets, npc thieves, elemental summons or rockdog, 5 of those 7 are optional.

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

Yes , i will help you with this:
Skills that stelth you:
1.cloack and dagger – can be countered with – dodge roll / blind /knockback /fear/knockdown / aegis / shield block from warrior/engenier /invulnerability
2. shadow refuge – if thief leave refuge before it ends – stealth is breaked and he get 3 seconds reveal debuf :
- you can fear him intro refuge
-knockback from refuge ( as an special mention guardian got 2 buubles that can do that , mesmer got an area knockback, and rangers 2 knockbacks – 1 from pet)
- or you can simple aoe the area with tons of damage untill you force him to leave.
3. Hide in shadows – this skill got an cast time, so it can be intrerupted by knockdowns, knockbacks ,stuns /daze/ fear, or you can cast channeling spell while he cast hide in shadows
4. blinding powder – this is thief’s panic button you cannot break this steath -it has an 40 seconds cooldown -last 3 seconds and have an casting animation- wich will help you to predict thief’s position after he stealth

Stealth is the main functionality of the class and some of these suggestions are straight up dumb. May as well just be requesting the removal of the Thief profession because without it then we’ve become softer warriors.

These complaints feel like they come from WvW encounters which I find to be hollow. The gameplay of WvW as a whole isnt crumbling because a few thieves that like to ambush people rather than march with the zerg. Furthermore there are countless videos of people displaying incredible skill against thieves or as thieves so these should help those trying to forumlate a way to battle them. With all professions you know what you’re up against and you should know what to expect.

Tulisin.6945:

Alex Behemoth.4952:

If he is invisible I can’t attack him.

Number one reason why stealth thieves can be so successful right here. GW2 doesn’t require tab targeting to use skills, and I get the majority of my thief kills by hitting them while they’re stealthed.

Yet the majority of people I encounter when playing as a thief react like NPCs do when presented with stealth. They stand there for a second, then go wander off somewhere because they’re completely helpless without a locked target.

I would like to have this point tattooed on several of the whiners of late. Maybe just have it appear on the screen upon entering WvWvW, since that seems to be where most of the kittening comes from.

to make these threads at least somewhat relevent i urge people to include in the title if there issue is with wvw pve spvp tpvp, because actually just coming to the thieves board and remind us that stealth is a thing. isnt particularly productive.

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

See where he stealthed? Keep swinging. Thief dies. You win.

I can go ahead and assume by that response that you sit idly and wait for your death the moment the Thief disappears. I see that way too often, and it saddens me.

Auesis.7301:

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

See where he stealthed? Keep swinging. Thief dies. You win.

I can go ahead and assume by that response that you sit idly and wait for your death the moment the Thief disappears. I see that way too often, and it saddens me.

See tho, when I play my thief I tend to stay away from the kitten swinging his/her sword…. Just sayin, you can’t treat the thief as a piece of wood, they can think and move out of the way much easier than you can swing your sword in the right direction.

But honestly, the easiest way to kill a thief with half a brain is to immobilize or knock’em down then lay into him. (More important against P/D thieves with more health than D/D lolz builds)

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Auesis.7301:

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

See where he stealthed? Keep swinging. Thief dies. You win.

I can go ahead and assume by that response that you sit idly and wait for your death the moment the Thief disappears. I see that way too often, and it saddens me.

See tho, when I play my thief I tend to stay away from the kitten swinging his/her sword…. Just sayin, you can’t treat the thief as a piece of wood, they can think and move out of the way much easier than you can swing your sword in the right direction.

But honestly, the easiest way to kill a thief with half a brain is to immobilize or knock’em down then lay into him. (More important against P/D thieves with more health than D/D lolz builds)

That’s not exactly what I meant. You saw where he stealthed – now take in to account your positioning and either swing away where you think he will try and move, or just aoe the kitten out of yourself after waiting for half a second or so. Thief vs Thief, if someone stealths against me, I just Cluster Bomb the floor and they’re usually dead before they’ve even landed a stealth hit. Failing that, just immobilise/CC them immediately, and they’re already sitting ducks.

buki.3108:

Thieves are the only class that lacks counter-play. Stealth has no counter – bad design. It reduces the possible actions the opponent can use. 5 > F1 > 1 is not skill.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill

Watched it, but that combo that you mentioned is that introductory to get people into the their. The thief noob tube if you will. It requires some maneuvering to pull off thus some coordination with the keyboard and mouse to try to get behind to fire off the BS. While this may work for a while, as soon as they meet up against someone who has seen it a couple of times, it’ll stop working as they’ll block, dodge, fear, knockback, knockdown, stun, or blind the thief as soon as it stealths. In this way CnD, steal, BS is training for all classes. However, this is limited to a single target at a time. A much more rewarding build capable of taking on groups is the condition build. Still counterable, but requires more skill from both players. The problem is though is this is pretty much where it ends. Sword dagger, while highly mobile is more of a nuisance and support build than anything else as it lack the oomph needed to take down higher toughness or vitality classes. So the thief gets an OP sticker because it allows people to enter the game with a fun mechanic and rewards good players who enjoy a good combat condition build. So what I take away from this is that the dagger doesn’t in fact need a nerf, (or stealth for that matter), but the other weapon combos (S/D, S/P, P/P) need a buff so that other builds become more attractive and rewarding to the thief players. As it is, even the very skilled players are pushed into staying in the D/D causing all complaints to virtually be about one specific setup available every 45 seconds.

You know how i counter stealth? I wach where projectiles go and AOE the kitten out of that area. There’s always a way against every class, even against salad warriors using roots and 100b which is the most evil thing in this game in my opinion.

Air.6452:

The whole point of a thief is to be stealthy…. I really am saddened by peoples response to this…

kitten it, if we want to make classes more fair then lets make all the classes even:

- Remove stealth on thief
- Remove clones on mesmer
- Remove 100 swords (Or whatever its called) from Warriors
- Remove full heals and barriers from Guardian
- Remove minions from necro
- Remove attunements from elementalists

Seriously, the class is fine. Latency issues exist, sure, but that has nothing to do with the class. Stealth makes thieves who they are, without it, they are a pointless class.

Im sad as a Ranger we have nothing you felt worth listing

On topic, if a thief is hit in stealth it should drag him out to allow people who see a thief coming or are fighting a thief have a chance to counter stealth by using an AoE or swinging their weapon.

Air.6452:

The whole point of a thief is to be stealthy…. I really am saddened by peoples response to this…

kitten it, if we want to make classes more fair then lets make all the classes even:

- Remove stealth on thief
- Remove clones on mesmer
- Remove 100 swords (Or whatever its called) from Warriors
- Remove full heals and barriers from Guardian
- Remove minions from necro
- Remove attunements from elementalists

Seriously, the class is fine. Latency issues exist, sure, but that has nothing to do with the class. Stealth makes thieves who they are, without it, they are a pointless class.

lol impresive and what you want do remove from ranger ?

Sang.3641:

Air.6452:

The whole point of a thief is to be stealthy…. I really am saddened by peoples response to this…

kitten it, if we want to make classes more fair then lets make all the classes even:

- Remove stealth on thief
- Remove clones on mesmer
- Remove 100 swords (Or whatever its called) from Warriors
- Remove full heals and barriers from Guardian
- Remove minions from necro
- Remove attunements from elementalists

Seriously, the class is fine. Latency issues exist, sure, but that has nothing to do with the class. Stealth makes thieves who they are, without it, they are a pointless class.

Im sad as a Ranger we have nothing you felt worth listing

On topic, if a thief is hit in stealth it should drag him out to allow people who see a thief coming or are fighting a thief have a chance to counter stealth by using an AoE or swinging their weapon.

If thief cant kill and other char in 2-3 sec it is noob thief.
And more if AN do nothing with Stealth on end 2012 Y. I stop playing in GW2.

Kurow.6973:

Shizzlenit.7648:

I call BS.

Welcome to the thief sub-forum…where it’s non-stop BS and exaggeration.

QFT’d

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Sang.3641:

Air.6452:

The whole point of a thief is to be stealthy…. I really am saddened by peoples response to this…

kitten it, if we want to make classes more fair then lets make all the classes even:

- Remove stealth on thief
- Remove clones on mesmer
- Remove 100 swords (Or whatever its called) from Warriors
- Remove full heals and barriers from Guardian
- Remove minions from necro
- Remove attunements from elementalists

Seriously, the class is fine. Latency issues exist, sure, but that has nothing to do with the class. Stealth makes thieves who they are, without it, they are a pointless class.

Im sad as a Ranger we have nothing you felt worth listing

On topic, if a thief is hit in stealth it should drag him out to allow people who see a thief coming or are fighting a thief have a chance to counter stealth by using an AoE or swinging their weapon.

If thief cant kill and other char in 2-3 sec it is noob thief.
And more if AN do nothing with Stealth on end 2012 Y. I stop playing in GW2.

Let me be the first to say, “Aufedersein”

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

buki.3108:

The thief class is basically the noobtube of this game. It is designed for less skilled players to feel like they can compete and have fun with more experienced players. The class won’t be nerfed – it’s a marketing tool to include all players, even noobs, in PvP.

Absolutly true.

If by true, you in fact mean, “I refuse to adjust my presuppositions about this game to adapt to the battlefield conditions and deal with the opponents as Anet designed them” – then yes, that’s true.

Aervius.2016:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Sang.3641:

Air.6452:

The whole point of a thief is to be stealthy…. I really am saddened by peoples response to this…

kitten it, if we want to make classes more fair then lets make all the classes even:

- Remove stealth on thief
- Remove clones on mesmer
- Remove 100 swords (Or whatever its called) from Warriors
- Remove full heals and barriers from Guardian
- Remove minions from necro
- Remove attunements from elementalists

Seriously, the class is fine. Latency issues exist, sure, but that has nothing to do with the class. Stealth makes thieves who they are, without it, they are a pointless class.

Im sad as a Ranger we have nothing you felt worth listing

On topic, if a thief is hit in stealth it should drag him out to allow people who see a thief coming or are fighting a thief have a chance to counter stealth by using an AoE or swinging their weapon.

If thief cant kill and other char in 2-3 sec it is noob thief.
And more if AN do nothing with Stealth on end 2012 Y. I stop playing in GW2.

Let me be the first to say, “Aufedersein”

You not first

Auesis.7301:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Auesis.7301:

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

See where he stealthed? Keep swinging. Thief dies. You win.

I can go ahead and assume by that response that you sit idly and wait for your death the moment the Thief disappears. I see that way too often, and it saddens me.

See tho, when I play my thief I tend to stay away from the kitten swinging his/her sword…. Just sayin, you can’t treat the thief as a piece of wood, they can think and move out of the way much easier than you can swing your sword in the right direction.

But honestly, the easiest way to kill a thief with half a brain is to immobilize or knock’em down then lay into him. (More important against P/D thieves with more health than D/D lolz builds)

That’s not exactly what I meant. You saw where he stealthed – now take in to account your positioning and either swing away where you think he will try and move, or just aoe the kitten out of yourself after waiting for half a second or so. Thief vs Thief, if someone stealths against me, I just Cluster Bomb the floor and they’re usually dead before they’ve even landed a stealth hit. Failing that, just immobilise/CC them immediately, and they’re already sitting ducks.

Exactly.

1.) Thief is raising it’s right hand into the air.
2.) Note direction and average movement speed of Thief.
3.) Estimate projected travel route.
4.) Spam auto-attack, watch to see if your AA Chain progresses to the next attacks.
5.) Profit.

It’s like people forgot how to play ‘Battleship’. I know I get a certain smug satisfaction when I land a Backstab on another Thief who ran into their Shadow Refuge.
Stealth really isn’t crap when you know how to counter it.

Rayya.2591:

sorrow.2364:

For instance, once you hit a thief with any of your skills or the thief is close to you for a not-too-short period of time, you should be able to see its silhouette for an istant. Obviously, this should be counterbalanced giving more stealth duration.

In this way, bad thieves don’t get a real advantage from stealth while good players have a chance to counter stealth and good thieves get advantages due to increased stealth duration, giving more gap to skill floor and ceiling.

sure , so players who use minimum details in options should had an disadvantage compared to the rest.
That would be called skill ? In fact in some players opinion they are skilled when they fight in wvw with an 3000 euro pc and kill an enemy with 5 fps . Just for your information, bad player is not an player who don’t react in time when you attack him, is an player who use wrong skill when he fight you, he refuse to help downed ally and he start resurect after he is dead, is an player who spam all his skills and then run away, is an player wich only use dodge to move from 1 location to another… etc

I don’t know what you are talking about to be honest.

Aervius.2016:

Exactly.

1.) Thief is raising it’s right hand into the air.
2.) Note direction and average movement speed of Thief.
3.) Estimate projected travel route.
4.) Spam auto-attack, watch to see if your AA Chain progresses to the next attacks.
5.) Profit.

It’s like people forgot how to play ‘Battleship’. I know I get a certain smug satisfaction when I land a Backstab on another Thief who ran into their Shadow Refuge.
Stealth really isn’t crap when you know how to counter it.

So, let’s get straight.
How can you actually estimate the route of an invisible entity? How can you know if he want to disengage the fight or land a backstab behind you? How can you know, if he want to leave, in which direction did he lead to? How can you know the average movement speed of the thief? How can you know if he is using the Fleet Shadow trait?
Your suggestions seems lacking in foundations and are based on hypothetical 1vs1 situation where you can give all your attention to your enemy, which is less than 10% of the actual encounters.

So, no. Stealth hasn’t a real counter without considering luck.

stupid people make the thief OP.

sorrow.2364:

So, let’s get straight.
How can you actually estimate the route of an invisible entity? How can you know if he want to disengage the fight or land a backstab behind you? How can you know, if he want to leave, in which direction did he lead to? How can you know the average movement speed of the thief? How can you know if he is using the Fleet Shadow trait?
Your suggestions seems lacking in foundations and are based on hypothetical 1vs1 situation where you can give all your attention to your enemy, which is less than 10% of the actual encounters.

So, no. Stealth hasn’t a real counter without considering luck.

“How can you actually estimate the route of an invisible entity”

-We’re not invisible all the time, we have to come out of Stealth eventually and we have 3 skills total that don’t require we hit you to Stealth us. Most Thieves rely too heavily on Stealth because of people who give up trying to hit us just because you can’t see us.
Tip: The direction the Thief is heading before he/she stealths is, get this, the same direction they’re heading after Stealthing.

“How can you know if he want to disengage the fight or land a backstab behind you?”

Simple, Pistol Dagger will typically put distance (i.e. dodge roll backwards) after Stealthing.
Dagger Dagger (Sword Dagger, too) will typically close the distance or position (refer to answer one for assessing their specific heading, i.e. to your left or right) themselves to your 90-degree rear arc for the backstab damage (for the Daze if Sword Dagger).
Deductive Logic does wonders against Thieves.

“How can you know the average movement speed of the thief?”

Do you see a Swiftness icon when they dodge-roll? Yes? Anticipate. No? Average movement speed for ANY CHARACTER IN THE GAME IN COMBAT.

“How can you know if he is using the Fleet Shadow trait?”
If it’s direct damage, and Steal doesn’t hurt, they have Fleet Shadow. If they don’t hurt with Steal (i.e. Mug isn’t slotted), yet gain Might on a dodge, or Vigor after popping their heal- they don’t have it slotted.
If it’s conditions, Power of Inertia is a much better trait to slot in the Adept bracket, anyway- so if they gain Might and Swiftness for simply dodge-rolling, you know what they are using.
Pay. Attention.

“Your suggestions seems lacking in foundations and are based on hypothetical 1vs1 situation where you can give all your attention to your enemy, which is less than 10% of the actual encounters.”

And I think we found your problem.
Go back to a game where you can mentally check out in PvP and just faceroll your macro’d rotation for the win. GW2 actually requires that you pay attention to the fight, ‘anticipate and counter’.
If you aren’t doing that, you’re dead.
It’s actually not very dissimilar to actual combat in this regard.

Air.6452:

buki.3108:

.

…

Ignore him. Like they say, don’t feed the trolls.

buki.3108:

Thieves are the only class that lacks counter-play. Stealth has no counter – bad design. It reduces the possible actions the opponent can use. 5 > F1 > 1 is not skill.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill

What’s really funny, is the video you linked directly shatters your own argument.
You claim that Steal>C&D>BS combo requires no skill, then you link a video that effectively supports it’s existence because in the higher tiers of STRUCTUREDPvP, Backstab Thieves are as rare as GS Warriors.

Obvious troll is obvious.

More to the point, if you think Stealth has no counters it’s clear to every Thief player in the community that you have no clue what you’re talking about.

“How can you actually estimate the route of an invisible entity”
-We’re not invisible all the time, we have to come out of Stealth eventually and we have 3 skills total that don’t require we hit you to Stealth us. Most Thieves rely too heavily on Stealth because of people who give up trying to hit us just because you can’t see us.
Tip: The direction the Thief is heading before he/she stealths is, get this, the same direction they’re heading after Stealthing.

That is untrue. Once a thief use CnD (which is the main source of stealth thieves) and vanished in stealth, you have no way to know where he is now.
He could have dodged away heading to every direction, he could have moved to every direction, he could even have disengaged the fight and running meters away from you and he could even be behind you.
If you say that you know exactly where the thief is for sure, you are lying. There is no way to know where the thief is, you can guess if the thief is that bad to have a predictable behavior, but if not, there is no counter at all.

Thieves can’t be stealthed all the time, but a x/D thief can stealth for a considerable amount of time and reduce the amount of unstealther time at minimum. CnD, when traited, costs 4 initiative, giving 4s of stealth. 4 initiative are regenerated in 5.32s, so every CnD, you lose ~1 initiative if you are in stealth for the whole duration. That means that you are going to get out of initiative after 5-6 CnD (20-24s of stealth). All this, assuming that you are not running with Hide in Shadows, Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder. Using just one of those skills give you 4s of stealth (12 shadow refuge) plus 2 initiative (10 shadow refuge) when traited, that means 2 extra CnD (or 10).

So yes, a thief, when playing defensively, can nearly perma-stealth.

“How can you know if he want to disengage the fight or land a backstab behind you?”
Simple, Pistol Dagger will typically put distance (i.e. dodge roll backwards) after Stealthing.
Dagger Dagger (Sword Dagger, too) will typically close the distance or position (refer to answer one for assessing their specific heading, i.e. to your left or right) themselves to your 90-degree rear arc for the backstab damage (for the Daze if Sword Dagger).
Deductive Logic does wonders against Thieves.

Dodge roll in which direction? What if he is running away because he is on low health?
How can you know that D/D thief is using Stealth offensively to get behind you and not defensively?
Those you are proposing are only speculation, not actual counters.

“How can you know the average movement speed of the thief?”
Do you see a Swiftness icon when they dodge-roll? Yes? Anticipate. No? Average movement speed for ANY CHARACTER IN THE GAME IN COMBAT.

Swiftness isn’t the only source of IMS. There is the passive signet plus some traits. Also, swiftness can be applied while in stealth (just a dodge) and, you know, you can’t see boons of a stealthed entity. Again, yours is only pure speculation.

“How can you know if he is using the Fleet Shadow trait?”
If it’s direct damage, and Steal doesn’t hurt, they have Fleet Shadow. If they don’t hurt with Steal (i.e. Mug isn’t slotted), yet gain Might on a dodge, or Vigor after popping their heal- they don’t have it slotted.
If it’s conditions, Power of Inertia is a much better trait to slot in the Adept bracket, anyway- so if they gain Might and Swiftness for simply dodge-rolling, you know what they are using.
Pay. Attention.

Again, I see only speculations here. They can slot both traits, they aren’t mutually exclusive.

“Your suggestions seems lacking in foundations and are based on hypothetical 1vs1 situation where you can give all your attention to your enemy, which is less than 10% of the actual encounters.”
And I think we found your problem.
Go back to a game where you can mentally check out in PvP and just faceroll your macro’d rotation for the win. GW2 actually requires that you pay attention to the fight, ‘anticipate and counter’.
If you aren’t doing that, you’re dead.
It’s actually not very dissimilar to actual combat in this regard.

You don’t get the point.
Look at the suggestions you gave. Those need an huge amount of attention to be put on just one entity to counter a broken mechanic in order to have just an unsure chance to counter it.
You can’t afford to put all this attention to one enemy without ignoring the others, that’s the point.