Guild Wars 2

Before I start, let me say I’ve already read all the guides posted in the stickys (big props to Lowell’s Guide) really excellent advice in those. I usually lurk and read posts, but I’d like some feedback on a few questions I have. I’m kind of a newbie so I’m open to any advice.

First, am I correct in assuming PVT gear is the best for me to use while I am still learning the ropes in PvE/PvP, and I should get into zerks gear once I feel confident? Right now I have almost a full temple set, all PVT except for two pieces which are PTC. I am really poor so I can’t afford runes of divinity yet and instead I am just using runes that give toughness and condition damage. All my accessories are zerks but they are just elite with exquisite rubys and not ascended yet.

Second, I am using D/P + Shortbow and my traits are 0/30/15/25/0.

Practiced tolerance/side strikes/hidden killer

infusion of shadow

power of inertia/fleet of foot

Third, I use signets for my utilities because I don’t have the best gear right now and it really helps bring up my stats. Malice, Assassins, Agility, and Shadows. I use Dagger Storm for my elite. Is it okay to run four sigs?

Is this setup okay for a newb? Anything I should do differently for now or anything I should focus on for the future?

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

1. i would disagree with full PTV gear, even for start , because :
you won’t know your potential , starting with poor critical chance and critical damage, and you won’t learn to dodge /avoid corectly
2. do not try to compensate your stats with signet
more raw stats cannot compensate with utility from shadow refuge /shadowstep /blinding powder etc.

2. do not try to compensate your stats with signet
more raw stats cannot compensate with utility from shadow refuge /shadowstep /blinding powder etc.

The signets are more than just raw stats.

Infiltrator signet – 24s cd 900 range shadow step, can be used to break stun.
Signet of agility – party condition removal, party endurance refill as well
Signet of Shadows – passive 25% movement speed, you can’t get 25% movement speed with stats from other places, active blind helps for stomping and instant blind when CC’d.

Just my thoughts:

While PVT is the blanket “safe” gear for just about anyone, it’s not the first choice for a lot of thieves. Generally, Valkyrie (PVC) is the preferred training wheels gear for most direct damage thieves. Vitality winds up being a more useful defense than toughness, thanks to thief having such a low base health pool. There’s also the common belief (not sure how true it is) that lots of toughness will make you pull more agro. In harder hitting dungeons, a durable thief that’s getting hit is probably still a dead thief.

Signets are well and fine, though you’ll get the most out of them if you’re comfortable clicking them where appropriate, rather than just riding the passive train. The exception to this is possibly Assassin’s, though that’s a theorycrafting discussion all its own. With 30 in Critical Strikes, you’re also wide open to take Signets of Power and/or Signet Use, to make clicking them more worth your effort.

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Just my thoughts:

While PVT is the blanket “safe” gear for just about anyone, it’s not the first choice for a lot of thieves. Generally, Valkyrie (PVC) is the preferred training wheels gear for most direct damage thieves. Vitality winds up being a more useful defense than toughness, thanks to thief having such a low base health pool. There’s also the common belief (not sure how true it is) that lots of toughness will make you pull more agro. In harder hitting dungeons, a durable thief that’s getting hit is probably still a dead thief.

Signets are well and fine, though you’ll get the most out of them if you’re comfortable clicking them where appropriate, rather than just riding the passive train. The exception to this is possibly Assassin’s, though that’s a theorycrafting discussion all its own. With 30 in Critical Strikes, you’re also wide open to take Signets of Power and/or Signet Use, to make clicking them more worth your effort.

TY. I use assassin’s signet active all the time actually. It is the one I use the most. With D/P I usually stack stealth from smoke screen and then I pop the signet for the huge damage buff on my next 5 attacks. Backstab, and then HS spam while evading. I should get rid of the precision-to-vitality trait for one of the signet buffs then?

Also, I will look at valkyrie gear thanks. But generally speaking, thieves should always run full zerks gear right? It seems like the consensus everywhere I look that nothing else is acceptable but 100% zerks in every situation for thieves.

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

I don’t understand the last part. Why is sword = infiltrator’s signet and daggers = shadowstep? Also, would it make infiltrator’s signet worth it with D/P if I pick the trait Signet Use for the -20% CD and +2 initiative?

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

I don’t understand the last part. Why is sword = infiltrator’s signet and daggers = shadowstep?

Sword has built in shadow return, dagger doesn’t.

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

I don’t understand the last part. Why is sword = infiltrator’s signet and daggers = shadowstep?

Sword has built in shadow return, dagger doesn’t.

Oh, okay.

I was wondering about condition removal actually. It seems like in WvW the only signets worth using are signet of malice and signet of shadows? Should I use shadowstep and shadow refuge for the other two utilities if I am using D/P?

Thanks for your help.

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

Meyrink.6792:

Excalibur.9748:

I just wanna talk a bit about 4 signet build cuz I use that for PvE.

I think 4 signet build for PvE is okay, but situationally you may want to swap in shadow refuge or smokescreen or maybe shadow step as the situation demands.

I don’t think it’s okay for WvW. Shadow refuge is pretty much a must if you want to get out (used defensively can evade from zergs, offensively used can basically guarantee a stomp). You should also bring at least 1 stunbreaker.

What should I use for a stun breaker?

There are 3 choices. Roll for initiative , Shadow step, infiltrator’s signet.

Personally I like infiltrator’s signet but shadow step is popular as well. They’re both pretty popular it really depends on your taste.

What I like about infiltrator’s signet is it’s instant cast, can be reduced to 24s cooldown, synergizes really well with most builds because of the passive initiative regen. The con is it doesn’t remove 2 conditions like shadow step on return and if used for stun breaking you should maybe combo with a dodge immediately after use since it teleports you TO the target rather than away, also beware to use the stunbreak after you’re already on the ground when it’s a Knockdown otherwise i think it will fail to stunbreak.

Most sword builds will take infiltrator’s signet. Most dagger builds will take shadow step. (for obvious reasons)

I don’t understand the last part. Why is sword = infiltrator’s signet and daggers = shadowstep?

Sword has built in shadow return, dagger doesn’t.

Oh, okay.

I was wondering about condition removal actually. It seems like in WvW the only signets worth using are signet of malice and signet of shadows? Should I use shadowstep and shadow refuge for the other two utilities if I am using D/P?

Thanks for your help.

Signet of malice is not very popular in WvW actually. Withdraw and HIS are a lot more popular since they offer more utility.

Oh, just one more question.

What about Shadow Trap for stun breaker?

When you place it it lasts for 2 minutes and you can destroy it early. If you do you will shadowstep back to it and the range is 10,000 and it breaks stun. That seems very useful. It also breaks stun if someone triggers it and you use it normally.

Meyrink.6792:

TY. I use assassin’s signet active all the time actually. It is the one I use the most. With D/P I usually stack stealth from smoke screen and then I pop the signet for the huge damage buff on my next 5 attacks. Backstab, and then HS spam while evading. I should get rid of the precision-to-vitality trait for one of the signet buffs then?

Also, I will look at valkyrie gear thanks. But generally speaking, thieves should always run full zerks gear right? It seems like the consensus everywhere I look that nothing else is acceptable but 100% zerks in every situation for thieves.

The general consensus is straight berzerker’s, aye. Valkyrie is simply something you can weave into a few pieces to trade a little precision for a little health, if you find that you need the extra damage buffer. Defensive stats are only useful if you get hit. Offensive stats a) are always useful and b) ensure things die faster and have less of a chance to hurt you. Since stuff in dungeons hit hard, you really don’t want to get hit, even if you’re durable. But, we don’t all start out as dodge gods, and a little extra health during the learning phase can alleviate some of the growing pains..

For Assassin’s Signet, there are some threads on here doing the math on what builds benefit from clicking it and when. But without breaking out the thinking cap, it’s obviously better for burst than sustained damage.

The Signet of Power trait does have good synergy with it. 5 stacks of might is +175 Power, which almost completely makes up for losing the 180 from Assassin’s Signet, giving your 5 burst attacks more for their money. That’ll last for about 12 seconds with your boon duration. Assassin’s Signet will be down for 45 seconds (36 seconds if traited with Signet Use), cutting it down to only 33 seconds (24 seconds traited) that you’ll be without a Power buff.

For those off times when I spec down the Critical Strikes line, I like having both signet traits. But Side Strikes is a really good trait too. It’ll be up to you to decide what feels best to you.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Meyrink.6792:

TY. I use assassin’s signet active all the time actually. It is the one I use the most. With D/P I usually stack stealth from smoke screen and then I pop the signet for the huge damage buff on my next 5 attacks. Backstab, and then HS spam while evading. I should get rid of the precision-to-vitality trait for one of the signet buffs then?

Also, I will look at valkyrie gear thanks. But generally speaking, thieves should always run full zerks gear right? It seems like the consensus everywhere I look that nothing else is acceptable but 100% zerks in every situation for thieves.

The general consensus is straight berzerker’s, aye. Valkyrie is simply something you can weave into a few pieces to trade a little precision for a little health, if you find that you need the extra damage buffer. Defensive stats are only useful if you get hit. Offensive stats a) are always useful and b) ensure things die faster and have less of a chance to hurt you. Since stuff in dungeons hit hard, you really don’t want to get hit, even if you’re durable. But, we don’t all start out as dodge gods, and a little extra health during the learning phase can alleviate some of the growing pains..

For Assassin’s Signet, there are some threads on here doing the math on what builds benefit from clicking it and when. But without breaking out the thinking cap, it’s obviously better for burst than sustained damage.

The Signet of Power trait does have good synergy with it. 5 stacks of might is +175 Power, which almost completely makes up for losing the 180 from Assassin’s Signet, giving your 5 burst attacks more for their money. That’ll last for about 12 seconds with your boon duration. Assassin’s Signet will be down for 45 seconds (36 seconds if traited with Signet Use), cutting it down to only 33 seconds (24 seconds traited) you’ll be without a Power buff.

I like having both signet traits, but Side Strikes is a really good trait too. It’ll be up to you to decide what feels best to you.

Wow, thanks a lot for the help again!

I +1’d your posts for what it’s worth. I really appreciate the advice.

Just a quick note on your question about which utilities, the three you mentioned (Step, Refuge, and Sig of Shadows) are pretty much standard in WvW for most Thieves. I’ve been running them with BV and Hide/Withdraw for a LONG time and they’ve never let me down. With your build you could use Withdraw with Centaur runes and Vigorous Recovery for near perma-swiftness and replace SoS with Blinding Powder, or do the same but use different runes for less swiftness up time.

Yeah, I recently rolled a thief too.

After flipping through a few threads I grabbed some PVT and Scholar Runes. I went with Valk daggers and zerker trinkets. I still hit(with food buffs) back stabs of 8K+ on GCs/lowbies, 6K on targets with some toughness, and >3K on all these stupid super tank regen warrs that are running around. I didn’t want a instagib build, so it seemed like a good option. Its done me pretty well, but I will probably move more glass.

Incurafy.6329:

Just a quick note on your question about which utilities, the three you mentioned (Step, Refuge, and Sig of Shadows) are pretty much standard in WvW for most Thieves. I’ve been running them with BV and Hide/Withdraw for a LONG time and they’ve never let me down. With your build you could use Withdraw with Centaur runes and Vigorous Recovery for near perma-swiftness and replace SoS with Blinding Powder, or do the same but use different runes for less swiftness up time.

Thanks. Yeah, actually what I did was I swapped in Fleet Shadow for that 50% speed bonus while stealthed and I dropped signet of shadows, so with my build I am using refuge, shadowstep, and assassin’s signet. Although I realize most thieves run with the stealth heal, I’m actually using signet of malice instead here but only because of my specific build which is designed to milk signets really good, but let me explain that.

Every 12 seconds I can pop signet of malice for x5 stacks of might that last 10 seconds and I also get 2 initiative as well as a big heal. That means I’m getting 175 additional power with only a 2 second CD, on top of the x5 stacks of might I get for popping assassin’s signet. That’s 10 stacks of might, plus I have might on dodge which stacks even more. I can easily get around 14~15 stacks of might up before a fight, which is pretty hardcore when you crit on a backstab from hidden killer while assassin’s signet gives you the +15% damage buff on top of everything else.

When I need to go places I just use shadow refuge to stack stealth and away I go. The 50% speed bonus from Fleet Shadows is better for me than Signet of Shadows because with D/P you have stealth on demand. I can pretty much stay in stealth forever if I just swap my one shadow arts trait from shadows embrace to infusion of shadow so I regain initiative – plus I pop my signet of malice every 12 seconds for more initiative. Once I get close to a fight I just swap back in shadow’s embrace for the condition removal, but I have shadowstep as well so there’s also that.