Guild Wars 2

Honestly, I don’t even know where you’re coming from with this. Shortbow is the LEAST used weapon in the game for thieves as a main weapon. Nobody is complaining about it, and yet you still keep messing with it despite far more serious OP issues with other classes.

The most recent suggested changes combined with the upcoming critical damage nerf is insane. Nerf Detonate? Why? 18% damage + crit damage nerf is enormous. Make Disabling Shot cost more initiative but increase the damage? It wasn’t a damage skill to begin with. Choking Gas duration nerf? Duration considered too OP? Are you kidding me?

This is all on top of the previous nerfs from 1,200 range and the Trick Shot nerf.

With this, you have literally nerfed every skill on shortbow significantly except the utility skill Infiltrator’s Arrow.

Thieves are now still the ONLY class without a 1,200 range weapon now as well.

Please do not go through with these changes. Not only are they poorly though out, they make no sense from a player perspective. Nerfing an entire weapon that nobody is complaining about just kills build variety that is already sorely lacking.

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

Dahkeus.8243:

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

Well kitten , and here I thought I was talking about it as a main weapon… oh wait I was… and what part of what I said doesn’t apply to it as a side weapon? The point is, the nerfs are uncalled for.

Arkard.3970:

Dahkeus.8243:

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

Well kitten , and here I thought I was talking about it as a main weapon… oh wait I was… and what part of what I said doesn’t apply to it as a side weapon? The point is, the nerfs are uncalled for.

I was about to type a counterpoint…but I think you’re just venting. Maybe when you calm down you’ll think this one through, lol.

Counterpoint away and stop trolling.

Arkard.3970:

Nobody is complaining about it

Bad news for you: people do complain about it. Disabling Shot has been a point of irritation for people ever since the initiative change in December, and Choking Gas is devastating with its current effect and the way the duration stacks.

There may be problems with Shortbow, that doesn’t make these changes indefensible. And that bit about “main weapon” is just nonsense. Regardless of what slot you stick a Shortbow in, it is far and away one of the most popularly used weapon types for this profession.

Interceptor.2653:

Arkard.3970:

Nobody is complaining about it

Bad news for you: people do complain about it. Disabling Shot has been a point of irritation for people ever since the initiative change in December, and Choking Gas is devastating with its current effect and the way the duration stacks.

There may be problems with Shortbow, that doesn’t make these changes indefensible. And that bit about “main weapon” is just nonsense. Regardless of what slot you stick a Shortbow in, it is far and away one of the most popularly used weapon types for this profession.

Well, thank you for at least explaining unlike the previous troll poster.

Detonate – Still have yet to see a counter point to this. It’s unjustified in my opinion and the combination of the sheer % reduction and the critical damage nerf is far too large.

Disabling Shot – People are “irritated” by it? That justifies the nerf? Blowing all your initiative for a few seconds of evade. How is this any different then say, block skills, invul skills, or other evade skills like ranger sword/dagger? I can maintain similar levels of defense with the above even with CDs, yet they’re not touched. If you want to reduce that level of defensive ability, do it across the board, and not a weapon that’s been nerfed several times.

Choking Gas – This I can at least see as being reasonable and the change I have the least issues with. I still don’t think it’s OP enough to deserve the nerf bat considering some of the other kitten out there, but fair enough. This in combination with everything else done to the shortbow? Too much.

Range – Still no justification

Main Weapon Distinction – Not nonsense, there are people that use it as a main weapon set. The point is, Everything but daggers and pistols has been culled to shoehorn thieves into just a few builds. That’s kitten, regardless of how many people use it. I see your point if you take what I said to mean that “it’s not a big deal, why nerf it because so few people use it,” but that’s not what I meant, and admittedly, poor wording on my part. The point was, you don’t further kill build diversity that is already endangered for some nerfs that are at best, questionable especially when coupled with an Improvisation buff that just screams OP at the same time.

I was not defending the changes, just pointing out that if you didn’t see people complaining about Shortbow, you weren’t listening in the right places. But as for a defense:

Detonate: now has a more defined role. Cluster Bomb is for raw damage, Detonate is for bleeding and AOE. I’m sort of confused why this change is controversial. Don’t blow up the bomb if you want damage.

Disabling Shot: got increased evade uptime after the Dec 10th change to init regen. This is not in dispute. They are increasing the cost to bring the evasion uptime more into line with what it was before, except we’re getting some extra damage on it in compensation. I don’t see how this is a problem unless you like getting free power for no cost whatsoever (which is what happened on Dec 10th).

Choking Gas: the poison length was a little ridiculous, especially with the plentiful access to condition duration in various Thief builds. At least take heart that they didn’t touch the duration of the field, which is the other part of the skill that’s secretly really good.

Range: they didn’t touch range this patch.

Main/Secondary weapon: Shortbow sits in exactly in the same spot after this patch as it did beforehand. It’s far and away our best utility weapon, which is why everyone and their mother carries one if they have any sense at all.

This is probably a net neutral patch for SB (Detonate change is good, Disabling is a side-grade, Choking Gas is a straight nerf), and at worst it’s only slightly negative.

Disagree regarding Detonate. Compare the ability to avoid Detonate and the speed they can be dropped compared to regular cluster bombs.

I think the change to detonate is good.

First of all, it is an increase in damage. The extra bleed stack per cluster more than makes up for the loss in direct damage. Even for a power build.

Secondly, it adds another dynamic to proper SB use, which I think its great.

Thirdly, it allows Condi-SB to become viable. 6 bleed stacks per CB Detonate? I’ll take that.

Wait…people used Detonate? Where the bombs exploded at was so random that it wasn’t worth exploding most of the time.

There are 3 things that make Shortbow such an attractive side-arm. And considering the alternatives it’s hardly surprising that it’s popular.

• 1. It’s a ranged weapon: In many cases having a ranged weapon is essential. Not because it’s powerful or cool, just because it’s ranged.

• 2. One of the few AoE weapons. When it comes to real AoE, Thieves don’t have many options outside of the Shortbow. And AoE is incredibly important in GW2.

• 3. Infiltrator’s Arrow: It’s just a great (albeit buggy) ability that makes things feel faster, even if you’re not. It also allows for some great shortcuts.

Shortbow isn’t OP and never was. It just does some things that Thieves wouldn’t otherwise be able to do, like really essential stuff (AoE, ranged damage).

If Thieves had more options or if P/P was less kittenty then maybe Shortbow would be a less dominant side-arm. But until then it will continue to remain the most popular side-arm by far, because playing without AoE, without a ranged weapon, puts you at a real disadvantage.

Dahkeus.8243:

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

Obviously, it’s our only viable range weapon and best means of tagging mobs. So we need it for times when melee isn’t the best option. Doesn’t mean it’s the strongest, it just has a lot of uses. Dagger main-hand = strongest. They really need to stop messing with it unless they plan on giving us more range weapons or redesigning pistols.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Wait…people used Detonate? Where the bombs exploded at was so random that it wasn’t worth exploding most of the time.

You Detonate at close range. Especially useful if running Signet of Malice.

Arkard.3970:

Honestly, I don’t even know where you’re coming from with this. Shortbow is the LEAST used weapon in the game for thieves as a main weapon.

Any thief worth their weight spends a majority of their time in shortbow.

Arkard.3970:

Nerf Detonate? Why? 18% damage + crit damage nerf is enormous.

Detonate utterly destroys classes like Mesmer. I would assume this plays into it – I am uncertain that this will be a severe hindrance. Thieves do rely on it heavily when fighting classes like engies, mesmers, eles, and there are quite a few warrior builds that demand its usage – not being able to put a dent into warriors is extremely worrisome.

Arkard.3970:

Make Disabling Shot cost more initiative but increase the damage? It wasn’t a damage skill to begin with.

With the change to initiative that we have had, disabling shot was a bit ridiculous – a possible 4 spammed DS shots in a row instead of about 3. I am uncertain if this is going to severely hamper the thief or not.

Arkard.3970:

Choking Gas duration nerf? Duration considered too OP? Are you kidding me?

This is the biggest hit imo. Choking gas, next to poison grenades, is one of the only reliable ways teams can create a dent into all the passive healing in the game.

Arkard.3970:

This is all on top of the previous nerfs from 1,200 range and the Trick Shot nerf.

The trick shot nerf was needed. FAF (fire and forget) autoattacks are ridiculous. Be glad the surprise shot is still FAF.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Detonate utterly destroys classes like Mesmer. I would assume this plays into it – I am uncertain that this will be a severe hindrance. Thieves do rely on it heavily when fighting classes like engies, mesmers, eles, and there are quite a few warrior builds that demand its usage – not being able to put a dent into warriors is extremely worrisome.

Actually a funny story about that~ I ran into a Warrior in WvW a while back who was AFK on top of a Fort Wall. I could only reach him with my Shortbow so I started pew pewing him. He had Regen Signet on and just kept healing all damage my Cluster Bombs hit him for easily. I poisoned him periodically and kept Cluster Bombing him over and over for like 5-10mins before I finally downed him. o.O Then a Thief showed up and rezzed him at last second and I /facepalm. :/

10/30/30 Full zerker w/ ascended and could not kill a Warrior who was AFK with Cluster Bomb and Poison because of a single auto-functioning signet. .-.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Wait…people used Detonate? Where the bombs exploded at was so random that it wasn’t worth exploding most of the time.

You gotta time the detonation. Doing it right before it hits would drop a lot of damage.

Disabling Shot, nerf was not the way it had to be done. The evade frame, and cast time is what should have been changed. There is still little to no window of opportunity between evades. Now with proper initiative management, it can still be just as annoying. Just another case of Anet not knowing exactly how to balance a skill.

Again detonate cluster. Really? This was used to “shotgun” your feet, when the thief has someone behind them, or for downed cleave. 18% damage is ridiculous, nerfs like this seem like nerfs to compensate for players that don’t know how predict this kind of play, and avoid the damage.

Looks like we are still going downhill.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Disabling Shot, nerf was not the way it had to be done. The evade frame, and cast time is what should have been changed. There is still little to no window of opportunity between evades. Now with proper initiative management, it can still be just as annoying. Just another case of Anet not knowing exactly how to balance a skill.

Yes, but now it will be no worse than it was on Dec 9th. The added cost makes it harder to keep going for longer periods of time, which is the only change that had to be made to bring it back to baseline. And now it will do more damage.

Again detonate cluster. Really? This was used to “shotgun” your feet, when the thief has someone behind them, or for downed cleave. 18% damage is ridiculous, nerfs like this seem like nerfs to compensate for players that don’t know how predict this kind of play, and avoid the damage.

It’s funny that you mention downed people, because they are totally screwed by the current behavior of Choking Gas. Max ticks of Shortbow #4 is basically a death sentence.

But to your point about Detonate Cluster, if you are hitting someone with all three projectiles, they have six bleeds now instead of three. Surely this compensates for the reduced damage (damage which you can still get by NOT detonating the Cluster, mind you).

Thankfully this isn’t happening. So far only the reduction of the poison field is known. None of the rest is known. According to the mod, someone mixed some of what we were told already with stuff they made up.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/RE-Leaked-patch-notes

There are many weapons in current state of game which are not meant to be primary. Necromancer Staff, Warrior Longbow, Thief Shortbow, Ranger Longbow..
I feel like SB for Thief is pretty OK now. Damage from Trick Shot could be even a little bit higher PvE-only and I don’t see any issue with Cluster.
Disabling Shot, however is incredibly powerful kiting skill, something any Ranger can of. about Cripple, evade when retreating, spammable if needed. Stronger version of Quick Shot. As it stands for now, Thief can evade most of direct attacks with it, which mostly hampers Power, not condition builds which are main issue in meta. Very little initiative cost increase for let’s say, a bit longer cripple would be a good option.

just want to pop in and say #5 got nerfed when they kittenly fixed most of the major teleport shortcuts in the spvp maps

Even though i main a thief , i can’t wait until the 3 on the short bow is nerfed , the spam is just painful.

Dahkeus.8243:

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

Shortbow is a utility weapon.

Even if they nerf damage to the ground, I will still use shortbow. Infiltrator shot gets me through the map very fast.

The best fix for this is to increase utility in other weapons and/or create new weapons with different utility in it.

Dahkeus.8243:

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

I only use shortbow for escape (only useful in PvP) and blasting.

Zach.3264:

Dahkeus.8243:

You…do realize that almost every thief has a shortbow as a swap weapon 90% of the time, right? It’s one of our strongest weapons, hands-down, even if we don’t use it as a primary weapon.

I only use shortbow for escape (only useful in PvP) and blasting.

I use it for that, and the poison fields that don’t break me out of stealth, and for the lovely #3 which lets me evade and quickly escape from enemies.