Guild Wars 2

I would like to suggest switching deathblossom with shadow strike and reworking these abilitys slightly.
Imo Deathblossom should never have been put on the dagger dagger set, it created a situation where power builds only really have 4 skills to use and condi builds pretty much spam 1 skill (deathblossom) wouldn’t it be better to have deathblossom on pistol dagger? and give shadow strike to dagger dagger.

The reworks I thought of could be this :

Pistol Dagger : Deathblossom : Do an evasive attack over your target, striking nearby enemys twice and blinding them. (2 bleeds 10s, blind 6 s)

Dagger Dagger Shadowstrike : Stab your target immobolizing them (1s) and shadowstepping away.

Feel free to shoot this idea down, but I just had to put it out there as I’m honestly sick of playing 4 skills DD for 3 years and devs just carrying on like its all good, it’s not.

No. I don’t want to lose Shadow Strike on P/D.

I want to keep my death blossom – improve the evade and maybe bleeding, leave it otherwise as it is, please. Or don’t hamper with it at all- I’m always afraid when something is about to be changed.
I do wonder if those who complain about that skill run D/D or think they would run D/D if only DB was improved.

Death Blossom will receive a significant buff though synergy with the daredevil Gm trait, that lets you on evade hurl multiple daggers at nearby foes.

Was shown in the video, at at the evade portion of the animation, you see the flying daggers, which deal a multitude of negative conditions, making a condi D/D thief with that alot stronger, but D/D was always to be kitten a kind of HYBRID weapon, that goes well if you have both, power and condition damage as high as possible.

The problem was only always, that D/D as a hybrid set is very lacklaster.
It would be alot more better, if the Dagger Auto Attack would create at least 1 condition more to cover better the poison and if Death Blossom would deal also 1 Condition more to cover better the bleeds.

Dagger Auto Attack should deal to an Enemy on the final Hit 1 Stack of Vulnerability and 2 Stacks of poison.

Death Blossom should deal per Hit 1 Stack of Confusion and 1 Stack of Bleeding. Why also Confusion? Because you whirl so fast around the enemy, that you confuse him about where you exactly are, if what he sees is not just a shadow of you, so fast do you whirl around your enemy, hitting them with fast precise hits they didn’t even saw coming.

Confusion additionally to the Bleeds of Death Blossom and increasign thwe Dodge Duration from its currentl laughable short time to a full second until the animation is over and you stand again on your feets would be the right things, Anet shiould do to make Death Blossom a real viable skill with that ypou can make especiall then as hybrid or more as Condi Thief with it then really good pressure to multiple targets around you that you hit. Increase then also the target number from 3 to 5 and D/D wouzld be a real good aggressive crowd controler.

Signet of Malice should also get improved to let you receive also heals, whenever condition damage procs, not just only direct damage. This together with a this way improved Death Blossom would make you really hard to kill, and less reliant of stealth.

Orpheal.8263:

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I don’t think that any serious D/D thief will take the DD line, but it’s great that one trait in it would buff one D/D skill ;)

I really like Shadow Strike being on P/D as is. It’s our best source of Torment, and it reinforces a specific kiting based playstyle that I find very enjoyable.

No thanks.

Running d/d hybrid (and hybrid is the damage setup that actually works for deathblossom) means using deathblossom until you’ve hit the heartseeker threshold, then using the bonus heartseeker damage to offset the power/crit you lost by investing in to condition damage, ur using it as a mobility tool to close on targets for another deathblossom whirl so you can ensure your deathblossom hits all three times.

P/D needs shadow strike to keep its stealth chains going, as the playstyle of p/d is about getting close to stealth, then getting far while unstealthed to pull off all the shots from sneak attack, then getting close again to stealth without getting smashed by melee attacks. Losing shadow strike would mean all someone would have to do to completely counter P/D was just run away or smash face. With shadow strike they can still do that, but it just makes the thief burn more init rather than make him completely unable to run his stealth chain.

Deathblossom doesn’t need to change significantly. it just needs animation and evade adjustments so it’s more useful as a positioning and evade tool for power/crit builds and condi hybrid builds all at the same time.

Orpheal.8263:

Death Blossom will receive a significant buff though synergy with the daredevil Gm trait, that lets you on evade hurl multiple daggers at nearby foes.

That makes no sense. There’s no real synergy here since the Gm trait is on dodge, not on evade.

Although it make some sense since both are condition damage attacks so they go well together somewhat.

As for the OP post. No it shouldn’t. P/D #3 is a distance making skill. D/D is a purely melee set and doesn’t need a distance making skill. And D/D #3 is a melee skill. The only melee skill P/D should use cause you are in melee is a distance making skill :p

Dodge and Evade are practically the same, the only difference is, for dodge to actively evade, you lose endurance, which is limited by it.
Evade instead isn’t based on Endurance, but for the thief limited on initiative and for other classses on the skill cooldown..

However, the mechanic is the same, you avoid getting damaged and its the avoidance effect, that I think lets proc here the effects of the unique dodge style…

Just look at the daredevil video ,the POI one, there you can clearly see, that the lotus training triggers all the time, whenever the thief made a death blossom, without actually dodging with it an enemy attack via a dodge roll.. he whirls just around in the air, the skill has an integrated evade effect, regardless if you perform it now in midsts of enemy attacks, or not.
So I think its whenever you evade (I guess, that dodge there is just an error in the description text)will proc the effects…
This, or actually Lotus Training shares exactly on dodge the same skill animation of deathly blossom, what would be kind of very weird and super confusing.

However, personally I find Lotus Training very cool, if you could really hurl with every kind of damage avoidance the daggers at foes and not just only via dodge roll.. it just looks very awesome to throw daggers at foes while performing a deathly blossom. Makes the skill look alot more ninja stylistic 3

Will always remind be a bit on this :<D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hERF3FvTrB4

Orpheal.8263:

Dodge and Evade are practically the same, the only difference is, for dodge to actively evade, you lose endurance, which is limited by it.
Evade instead isn’t based on Endurance, but for the thief limited on initiative and for other classses on the skill cooldown..

However, the mechanic is the same, you avoid getting damaged and its the avoidance effect, that I think lets proc here the effects of the unique dodge style…

No it’s NOT at all the same. On Dodge is each and every time you press your dodge key even if there’s nothing more threatening around than a white rat critter. On Evade requires you to actively make an attack miss because you were in the evade frames of some action.

The only link those two things have together is that currently, every dodge includes evade frames but that’s all. There’s a lot of skills in the game that include evade frames but aren’t a dodge.

So to be clear, the DD GM trait will make it so that each time you press your dodge button, you’ll throw daggers. And Death Blossom has NOTHING to do with dodge so it’ll not be throwing daggers when you use it, whether you evaded something or not.

Hmm, have looked again, now this time more closely at the video.. and its as I thought sadly just the lotus training which shares the exact same skill animation of death blossom, thats what made the whole thing so confusing :/

Still , id find it awesome, if these traits would proc also in each evade xd, would be super awesome to throw the daggers also while using deathly blossom while evadign attacks.

Orpheal.8263:

Hmm, have looked again, now this time more closely at the video.. and its as I thought sadly just the lotus training which shares the exact same skill animation of death blossom, thats what made the whole thing so confusing :/

Still , id find it awesome, if these traits would proc also in each evade xd, would be super awesome to throw the daggers also while using deathly blossom while evadign attacks.

Yeah and imagine facing a S/X thief – now that would be fun ;)

Nope.

Not a good idea.

Extending the evade to 1/2 second while reducing the bleed would be great.

Or more bleed. More bleed is nice.

I would like it to be turned into more of a dash skill, with a range similar to elementalist’s burning speed, maybe slightly lower, but at least more than it currently has.
Currently, the movement is kind okittenward. You barely move forward and might as well be spinning in place. If you time the dodge badly, you are still right within striking distance of where you used to be. Giving the skill more distance will make it a bit more forgivable with regards to evade timing, as even if you slightly miss the timing, you at least aren’t stuck in virtually the same place. You can evade out of AoE fields and you are harder to chase down.
This might give D/D slightly more application in confined spaces. This change will also make D/D fighting look more fluid. Currently, the death blossom animation is kind of choppy and breaks the flow of combat.

No do not change the base mechanics of DB. It has one of the best animations we have and is fun in a condition build. Increase evade to 3/4 second. Perhaps add one bleed stack. The evade frame increase is key.

Personally I like the hybrid nature of D/D. Poison on auto, bleeds + whirl finisher spam, and a trait that gives a proc chance for more poison per hit.

My suggestion would be to make dagger training 50% better (either 50% chance to proc or increase the poison duration to 3 seconds), and increase the evade time on Death Blossom to 1/2 second.

D/D power vs D/D condition has been the dilemma ever since the beginning. It used to be that D/D power is the best choice but now, D/D condition is more favorable – which is rather odd since 4/5 of the skills are power based.

In my opinion, D/D should be about condition damage (and P/P about power) with its own unique Stealth Attack — probably called Falling Spider (applies poison and bleeding). But you can’t do this unless you separate the D/D weapon set with other weapon sets.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

D/D power vs D/D condition has been the dilemma ever since the beginning. It used to be that D/D power is the best choice but now, D/D condition is more favorable – which is rather odd since 4/5 of the skills are power based.

In my opinion, D/D should be about condition damage (and P/P about power) with its own unique Stealth Attack — probably called Falling Spider (applies poison and bleeding). But you can’t do this unless you separate the D/D weapon set with other weapon sets.

Pretty sure that power D/D still has got more “power” than condi D/D. You can use it as a second set, first would be P/D – but dagger mainhand without backstab is nothing in my opinion. And backstab is nothing with a condi build.

I agree that Death Blossom needs a serious rework, I just don’t think that the idea that you proposed is the right way.
In concept, the idea of DB fits the D/D theme. It’s just the implementation of it that is really weak.

Jana.6831:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

D/D power vs D/D condition has been the dilemma ever since the beginning. It used to be that D/D power is the best choice but now, D/D condition is more favorable – which is rather odd since 4/5 of the skills are power based.

In my opinion, D/D should be about condition damage (and P/P about power) with its own unique Stealth Attack — probably called Falling Spider (applies poison and bleeding). But you can’t do this unless you separate the D/D weapon set with other weapon sets.

Pretty sure that power D/D still has got more “power” than condi D/D. You can use it as a second set, first would be P/D – but dagger mainhand without backstab is nothing in my opinion. And backstab is nothing with a condi build.

If D/D gets a full weapon set of 5 skilss, dagger main hand will keep Backstab because D/D skill #1 will use not just the main hand, but both weapons.

In GW1, Falling Spider is an off-hand attack that deals poison to a knocked-down target. In GW2, they can change the pre-requisite to stealth instead of knockdown and make it dual-wield — meaning attacking with both weapons. The idea is, with D/D and P/P, there is no main-hand/off-hand, all attack skills will use both weapons.

apocom.3172:

Extending the evade to 1/2 second while reducing the bleed would be great.

This, but without the bleed nerf. For how few condis d/d applies, 3 bleeds on a half second evade are completely within reason. Besides, that little evade buff would do wonders for d/d thief.

What the…? Death Blossom is my FAVORITE move on Dagger/Dagger! O_O Why remove/replace it?!

I’m 100% against this suggestion. First, DB gives evade; second, it deals bleeding and three hits of damage; third, it’s one of the coolest looking abilities a D/D thief can have.

I have no interest in Shadowstrike.

No do not change the base mechanics of DB. It has one of the best animations we have and is fun in a condition build. Increase evade to 3/4 second. Perhaps add one bleed stack. The evade frame increase is key.

Second. Death Blossom alone is the reason I mained a Thief at first, and while I stopped using it as much due to practicality, I wouldn’t want any changes to how it basically functions. Making it deal more damage per use, or have more evade to it, or whatever, would be nice, but the timing, animation, all that needs to stay intact.

Death Blossom is fine. It’s actually the best bleed stacking practically in the game and borderline OP with Caltrops. D/D is supposed to allow for hybridization Since S/x is purely power oriented. I like it this way and would be very put off if they made D/D full power.

If anything, they need to buff Poison’s damage (either baseline or make the trait better) so D/D works better in a full condi build.

Jana.6831:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

D/D power vs D/D condition has been the dilemma ever since the beginning. It used to be that D/D power is the best choice but now, D/D condition is more favorable – which is rather odd since 4/5 of the skills are power based.

In my opinion, D/D should be about condition damage (and P/P about power) with its own unique Stealth Attack — probably called Falling Spider (applies poison and bleeding). But you can’t do this unless you separate the D/D weapon set with other weapon sets.

Pretty sure that power D/D still has got more “power” than condi D/D. You can use it as a second set, first would be P/D – but dagger mainhand without backstab is nothing in my opinion. And backstab is nothing with a condi build.

Depends on what you’re doing. Condi D/D is pretty serious business in PvE and larger, less controlled PvP fights. P/D lacks AoE and SB simply doesn’t layer bleeds as effectively (despite what some people seem to assume).

In structured (or small-scale/controlled) PvP, running condi D/D causes you to miss out on too much utility and burst damage, so power D/D tends to work better.

Personally, I don’t want to see Death Blossom changed except for maybe an increase to the evade frame. D/D is a Thief staple and really should be versatile with regard to physical and condition damage.

Lastly, it’s worth noting that Impaling Lotus will make condi D/D more viable.

The suggestion was to make D/D a pure condition build and I don’t agree with that. Whatever “using 2 daggers and still backstabbing because of 2 daggers” means.

Pretty funny to me the dev was just spamming Deathblossom and seemed to be enjoying himself. I guess thats dynamic combat for you. I dont care too much anyway, can be evaded and conditions can be removed on evade.

just throwing it out there i love if they remove the eva an scripon wire merge that skill in to death blossom made it aoe pull + dealing bleed hit.

Ragion.2831:

Pretty funny to me the dev was just spamming Deathblossom and seemed to be enjoying himself. I guess thats dynamic combat for you. I dont care too much anyway, can be evaded and conditions can be removed on evade.

D/D condition isn’t so much about hitting as it is about maximizing number of hits. Positioning basically. Just spamming will usually get you 2 hits from db in stead of the optimal 3, and if you don’t make positioning adjustments you also miss the mini-caltrop bleeds from trickery. You need to stack bleeds from both to get out your damage and keep your stacks high.

The dev was having fun, but he was playing it super inefficiently, similar to running a backstab build and not properly timing c&d to sync up with revealed ending. Anybody can hit 1-5-1-5-2-2-2-2-2 but without the proper positioning and timing you’re cutting your DPS in half. Same thing with condi D/D, if you’re not constantly repositioning before dodges and uses of deathblossom, and making quick decisions about whether to use them for evasion or optimal bleeds, you’re cutting your DPS in half. Those decisions get even more complex in multitarget fights, as you want to maximize the aoe potential of those skills to get the damage out, and that requires even more complex positioning like starting DB stacked on one target while targeting another, dodging to drop trops on one to end the dodge on the other to db back to the first, etc.

Basically, the multiple decisions in a set like d/p are more about what skill to use when, wheras condi d/d is more about where to use skills from at a very fine level of positioning.

That dev video he was having fun, but was playing obnoxiously inefficiently to show off the range of the new dodge trait, or just because he didn’t care/know better since it’s not exactly hard to kill an ettin.