Guild Wars 2

Staff 1: Damage too low. Also, the first hit in the chain needs to come out faster, like the sword and dagger auto attacks. As it stands, the staff auto attack starts up too slowly and deals too little damage.
I propose 10% damage increase on the first two strikes and make the first strike come out fast like the sword auto.

Staff 1 from stealth: Barely deals damage at all.
Staff 1 from stealth into staff 2: ~4.5k damage, 3 initiative, opponent has a chance to stunbreak and dodge.
Backstab: 5k damage, 0 initiative, no tell for the opponent.
It needs to deal at least as much damage as tactical strike.

Staff 2: Is alright. Maybe make the animation a bit faster.

Staff 3: It doesn’t make sense nor is it useful that the evade skill on staff sends you backward.
I propose making the direction of this skill ground-targetable like warriors’ whirlwind attack.

Staff 4: This skill is just bad. 3/4s cast is way too long for a single blind. There’s no reason to use this skill to avoid hits instead of staff 3.
I propose reworking it so that it is instead a sweep around yourself which sweeps enemies off their feet (1 sec knockdown, 180 radius). Reduce the damage to compensate. This also fits the theme of staff much better.

Staff 5: That 1 second cast time without evade frames is like asking to get killed. You could only ever use this skill for downed cleave and even then staff 2 is more initiative-efficient.
I propose shifting the appeal of this skill to the mobility it offers. Increase the vault range to 900.

Please share your thoughts

I think Skill 3 is fine. It’s supposed to be like Withdraw and I actually like that I can use it as a dodge roll. Plus it combos really well with Vault as you can roll back and then leap back in.

Skill 4 is meant to be used from a distance as well. Skill 3 then Skill 4. I just love how Skill 3 sets up 4 and 5. I like the design idea of Skill 4 so far and I’d prefer to keep it as a ranged attack. As it lets you blind an enemy before you jump back into the fight.

As for Skill 5, if the damage coefficient on the build editor is correct, it’s going to nuke everyone it touches and having an evade frame on it would be ridiculously unbalanced.

These are all my opinion though. Also, I’m okay with Stealth 1 as it sets up Fist Flurry and Vault really nicely. I can’t comment on the Auto Attack yet though. If it’s as strong as Sword Auto, I think it could be good.

Let’s wait until Beta weekend to test out the damage values before we determine if its overpowered or underwhelming. Just 3 days away. It’s like saying this food tastes horrible without tasting it.

Very good post, I agree with all of it except that auto attack is slow. have u seen it at all? in action it has like no aftercast, so its way faster than sword and lets you use your 3for evade when u want unlike sword.
Great suggestions, i also think staff wont be a better choice than current weapon sets unless it gets buffs like this. especially the skill5 mobility part(other melee sets are superior) and the skill 3 aiming(theres no time to position your camera on an evade skill)

This is such a good thread. Lets make balance changes before actually playing the thing!

Staff 1 is 0,5s, how much faster do you want it to be?

Your prop for Skill 4 is pretty OP especially with Pulmonary Strike trait.

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Staff 4: This skill is just bad. 3/4s cast is way too long for a single blind. There’s no reason to use this skill to avoid hits instead of staff 3.

1. reason: You are still in melee of your enemy
2. reason: You can blind attacks that would hit your teammates.

lol, why are you discussing balance before anyone has actually played it?
Bad thread is bad.

I kind of have a problem with the notion that a stick,(SOMEtimes a pole), should hit as hard as a sword,dagger,w/etf. I hope staff doesn’t hit as hard as the other weapons to promote the brawl. Beat em’ to death rather than burst em’ to death.
On a serious note. Let us get a taste first like everyone said. Not to say your not right just…hold on.

Staff is fine.

Wait until Monday to post such a thread because you will be more credible that way.

Staff is fine.

Stealth Staff#1 is great. 2 second knocback is more than enough to bring death.
Staff #3 is like SB #3 but better. we got Staff#5 for ground targetting.
Staff #4 is fine as it it. A knockback? A spammable knockback, with a Pulmonary Impact is that it?
Staff #5 needs

While I haven’t played staff yet, I still don’t think it’s going to be bad.
1. It’s a standard autoattack with decent damage and 3 man cleave, with vuln on the last strike. Don’t see why there’s complaining.
1a. This stealth skill isn’t meant to deal damage, it’s a setup/CC skill.
2. Fine as is.
3. It’s an evade skill that deals damage, cripples, and removes immobilize. Seems like it has a lot of different things you can use it for.
4. I think the cast time should be increased, but that’s about it. It’s a cleaving blind, pretty useful in teamfights.
5. It’s a high burst, aoe groundtarget skill with a leap finisher. While it does have a long CD, you can use your other CC to land it. Really doesn’t seem bad. Range is fine for what else it offers honestly.

All that being said, we’ll have to wait to play it to see if it’s good or not. I think it looks pretty good on paper, now we just have to look at the gameplay.

I really need to try staff out before I make any suggestions, but for starters I think the 3rd hit of the auto-attack chain should hit 5 enemies, similar to other profession weapons like warrior hammer.

As far as some of the staff animations go… well, that’s another subject.

To OP: I’m pretty sure the order of things is that you test the new content, THEN give feedback.

Seabreeze.8437:

I think the 3rd hit of the auto-attack chain should hit 5 enemies

5 man cleave would be great but think about how that would interact with signet of malice.

You would have to be a pretty bad thief or casual pve only player to think staff has a serious place for thief in its current design. DullDevil builds will be more of the same, D/P, maybe S/P as well. Staff like many of the other new weapons, look terrible for damage.

Go ahead and continue to tell the OP he needs to actually play it, but its pretty obvious to several thieves what the builds will be. OP spots a problem several of you are incapable of seeing without tangible first-hand game-play but he’s not wrong.

And here we have a pretentious thief scoffing at people because we didn’t completely write a weapon off as not viable without getting our hands on it first.

Stinja, the devs don’t care about theories. They want to hear about experiences. This silly thread completely lacks credibility.

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Staff 1: Damage too low. Also, the first hit in the chain needs to come out faster, like the sword and dagger auto attacks. As it stands, the staff auto attack starts up too slowly and deals too little damage.
I propose 10% damage increase on the first two strikes and make the first strike come out fast like the sword auto.

Staff 1 from stealth: Barely deals damage at all.
Staff 1 from stealth into staff 2: ~4.5k damage, 3 initiative, opponent has a chance to stunbreak and dodge.
Backstab: 5k damage, 0 initiative, no tell for the opponent.
It needs to deal at least as much damage as tactical strike.

Staff 2: Is alright. Maybe make the animation a bit faster.

Staff 3: It doesn’t make sense nor is it useful that the evade skill on staff sends you backward.
I propose making the direction of this skill ground-targetable like warriors’ whirlwind attack.

Staff 4: This skill is just bad. 3/4s cast is way too long for a single blind. There’s no reason to use this skill to avoid hits instead of staff 3.
I propose reworking it so that it is instead a sweep around yourself which sweeps enemies off their feet (1 sec knockdown, 180 radius). Reduce the damage to compensate. This also fits the theme of staff much better.

Staff 5: That 1 second cast time without evade frames is like asking to get killed. You could only ever use this skill for downed cleave and even then staff 2 is more initiative-efficient.
I propose shifting the appeal of this skill to the mobility it offers. Increase the vault range to 900.

Please share your thoughts

I agree with some, but not all. Here’s my adjusted recommendation:

Staff 1: Should hit 5 targets to be an AoE weapon (applies to other staff skills as well. Damage does seem a bit low.

Staff 1 from stealth: Considering the quality of CC, the damage is fine.

Staff 2: Fine

Staff 3: Is fine as is. The backwards movement is great for a disengage and distance can easily be regained with staff 5. This gives us a good in and out movement for dicey combat.

Staff 4: The single blind is pretty weak and I agree that the cast time could be either reduced or eliminated. It’s a great skill from a flavor perspective, but seems to be the weakest link from a performance perspective.

Staff 5: Needs an evade frame…but that complicates things since we’re already balancing on the direction of having too many evades as it is…

Maybe just increase the range. Not 100% sure here.

Hmm seems like the post still holds true staff is indeed just as terrible as it looked.