Guild Wars 2

As the title suggests, surprise is what it’s all about in these multiplayer games.

What I mean by this is in relation to how people deal with surprise versus lack of surprise, I can use two common builds from GW2 as an example, but it also works in other games that have a surprise element.
From GW2 there is the BS build vs the bull rush -> HB build (with quickness), the BR-BH build works by charging a player, stunning them and then killing them however it’s all completely visual in its execution, you can see the warrior, see the bull rush and see the HB and the only surprise felt by the victim is when they initially saw the warrior.
However this is different for the thief, as a BS build will optimally never let the victim see them until the damage has been done, but the greatest difference between BR-HB and BS is the time at which the player is surprised (which leads to a moment of indecision), BR-BH only has surprise when the player sees the warrior giving them plenty of time to react, but for the BS build the player only sees the thief when they are almost dead or in a downed state which causes a greater delay in the time the brain sends out a reaction than in the warriors case.

An example from another game is a sniper vs an assault guy (BF3), an assault guy can just run’n’gun like a warrior, with the same effect from the brains perspective, but a sniper produces the same result as the thief, one moment you are running between points and the next you are dead because someone shot you from 700 meters away.

The damage isn’t what’s killing most people so much as the indecision created when the brain gets surprised which leads to a greater period of inaction for the average human, and that period of inaction is what surprise builds/classes/weapons in games take advantage of… it’s also why they are the most hated/nerfed/changed/complained about items/builds in most games.

In summary, people are fine with 100b warriors killing them in 1.5 seconds for the same reason that they aren’t fine with BS thieves killing them in 1.5 seconds, it all has to do with how the human brain processes a surprising event and kicks into action.

Which is why i cant understand the Devs love of having groups of mobs leap out of the ground in the story line quests. Ok i pull 8 mobs and die its my fault, if im walking towards a little green dot along an empty path then a second later im kitten deep in zombies its not a happy moment

Honestly, I don’t like the constant stealth in-battle especially with Shadow Refuge which is basically restarting a fight or getting away from one. Having no stealth detection allows stealth classes to always get the edge without a counter.

Of course, I have found it to be easier using a profession that has a changing autoattack. I use my axe war and look at my abilities to see if I hit something invisible.

there is stealth detection, its called channeled abilitys, they track stealthed targets.

whether or not this is intended, i do not know. It works very well.

This OP is very well explained and well thought out. I commend you for being one of the few on this forum to rationally explain your point without resorting to name calling or ignorant rumors.

Simply put however, I think this is exactly how the Dev’s designed the thief to be. perhaps they could use some better way to telegraph the combo, but then the combo wouldn’t be viable anymore, because it isn’t the way Anet seems to have made the class function. Perhaps the best fix is to change the Meta by making indirect changes to the combo’s pros and cons.

I suggested changing the placement of Mug to a 30 point trait in the power tree, making the typical glass cannon build a 30/30/0/0/10 setup instead of a 25/30/0/0/15. This seeming small change would mean that thieves using this build would lose the extra 3 initiative from the 15 point trait or else forfeit the 100% crit from stealth by going 30/25/0/0/15. I would assume that the majority would opt for the loss in initiative, meaning that they would no longer be able to have the required initiative to cast the second C&D > stealth stomp combo. This would in effect force them to choose whether to down the player and run, coming back later to finish the job and leaving open a good opportunity for another foe to save the victim’s day, or else risk being downed themselves by trying to get off a stomp with very low hp and no stability.

The only other reliable way would be to use the thief’s only other stealths on hand with this build: Hide in Shadows or Shadow Refuge. Either way, the thief gives up a VERY important survival capability to get a reliable kill. and would run the risk of not getting out alive. The meta (theoretically) would become that this build is designed for Anti Carry suicide assassins, that can get a reliable kill, but will probably not get out alive, considering they will either not have a heal, or not have the more than 5 seconds on shadow refuge to start running away.