Guild Wars 2

I’m really hating my thief. I want to play Sword and Dagger but I cannot seem to find a build that complements those weapons well. I have crap for damage, I die in 3 hits. I’m virtually useless in dungeons, WvW, sPvP… well, everything.
WTF!
Why even give me weapons and tell me that this game is all about playing the way I want to play, and then having terrible and mostly useless choices for traits?

The abilities of S/D are really nice.. on paper. Its too bad there are no traits that really complement them and its too bad that even a Toughness / Healing build is about as durable as soggy paper.

From some searching on the forum tonight, it appears that no one bother with S/D, and apparently for good reason.

Anet… how about you address this while you are busy working on the Thief.. you know, nerfing the couple things that the thief actually can do… maybe you could make Thief viable in other situations and roles instead of nerfing the crap out of the one or two possible pvp builds.

I’m really sorry I wasted my time with the agonizing grind to 80. S/D Thief is a pointless main. : /

You shouldn’t try to go Toughness + Healing with S/D. It’s a weapon set that excels best with Precision + Stealth specialization. This creates a glass-cannon stealth Thief with a constant output of Dazes and superior mobility (via Infiltrator’s Strike).

Against a single target:

• Infiltrator’s Strike > Cloak & Dagger > Tactical Strike > Auto-attacks.

Against two are three targets (like an enemy reviving a downed enemy):

• Dancing Dagger x 3 + Auto-attacks.

Remember, in PvP a Thief depends heavily on Stealth and DPS to avoid damage. It’s hard to hit something you cannot see, and a panicked enemy is more likely to reach for his heals and escape skills rather than attack you (which your Dazes will interrupt).

Nilgoow.1037:

S/D is strong. Sorry you’re bad at thief.

wow.. great response. I really love all the information you provide to back up your point…

wow.. great response. I really love all the information you provide to back up your point…tool.

Power Prec Crit armor/weapons
Power Vit Crit Jewelry
Traits: Power 30, Prec 30, Condition 10
Combo, walk up w e, rinse and repeat
Best used in WvW gank squads, I can kill just about everything in a second or less. Grab the quickness utility skill and the one that adds 15% damage for the next 5 attacks. If you want a more PvE oriented build, I suggest you look at s/p.

Iohanna.4863:

You shouldn’t try to go Toughness + Healing with S/D. It’s a weapon set that excels best with Precision + Stealth specialization. This creates a glass-cannon stealth Thief with a constant output of Dazes and superior mobility (via Infiltrator’s Strike).

Against a single target:

• Infiltrator’s Strike > Cloak & Dagger > Tactical Strike > Auto-attacks.

Against two are three targets (like an enemy reviving a downed enemy):

• Dancing Dagger x 3 + Auto-attacks.

Remember, in PvP a Thief depends heavily on Stealth and DPS to avoid damage. It’s hard to hit something you cannot see, and a panicked enemy is more likely to reach for his heals and escape skills rather than attack you (which your Dazes will interrupt).

Thanks for the reply Iohanna, but this IS what I have been doing. The Stealth talent line IS the Toughness / Healing line by the way. The issue I have seems to be that I don’t do enough damage to kill the target before I get 2 shot (everywhere), my blind / daze / immobilize / cripple never seems to land (in pvp / wvw), my stealth seems to constantly fail / be ignored (everywhere) and I am wearing paper for armor.

Now I say everywhere, but I’m ok when fighting 1 mob and only one mob. Unless I am in a under 40 zone I can usually take out 2-5 mobs without too much trouble. In zones 40+ I get smoked if I get 2 mobs on me. I just cannot seem to put out the damage required to kill them and I dont have the durability to tank them. No im not standing still. Yes I circle strafe and dodge. I have tried a Power and Stealth build, I have tried a power, precision build, as I think about it, i have tried every 2 line combo except power and trickery.
None seem to give me a good balance of damage and durability with the S/D… well, no durability at all even with 30 points Stealth (Toughness / healing) with a full Toughness gear set… im still wearing wet paper. : /

Rovaeden.8546:

Iohanna.4863:

You shouldn’t try to go Toughness + Healing with S/D. It’s a weapon set that excels best with Precision + Stealth specialization. This creates a glass-cannon stealth Thief with a constant output of Dazes and superior mobility (via Infiltrator’s Strike).

Against a single target:

• Infiltrator’s Strike > Cloak & Dagger > Tactical Strike > Auto-attacks.

Against two are three targets (like an enemy reviving a downed enemy):

• Dancing Dagger x 3 + Auto-attacks.

Remember, in PvP a Thief depends heavily on Stealth and DPS to avoid damage. It’s hard to hit something you cannot see, and a panicked enemy is more likely to reach for his heals and escape skills rather than attack you (which your Dazes will interrupt).

Thanks for the reply Iohanna, but this IS what I have been doing. The Stealth talent line IS the Toughness / Healing line by the way. The issue I have seems to be that I don’t do enough damage to kill the target before I get 2 shot (everywhere), my blind / daze / immobilize / cripple never seems to land (in pvp / wvw), my stealth seems to constantly fail / be ignored (everywhere) and I am wearing paper for armor.

Now I say everywhere, but I’m ok when fighting 1 mob and only one mob. Unless I am in a under 40 zone I can usually take out 2-5 mobs without too much trouble. In zones 40+ I get smoked if I get 2 mobs on me. I just cannot seem to put out the damage required to kill them and I dont have the durability to tank them. No im not standing still. Yes I circle strafe and dodge. I have tried a Power and Stealth build, I have tried a power, precision build, as I think about it, i have tried every 2 line combo except power and trickery.
None seem to give me a good balance of damage and durability with the S/D… well, no durability at all even with 30 points Stealth (Toughness / healing) with a full Toughness gear set… im still wearing wet paper. : /

If you can’t kill 2-4 targets insanely fast with this build you are REALLY doing something wrong. The damage coming off of dancing dagger (the 4th skill) is insane and one of the best kiters in the game. Also, shortbow is much better as an aoe weapon. I personally use shortbow and s/d since shortbow is long range aoe and s/d is close range single to 4 target burst.

TheAmpca.1753:

Power Prec Crit armor/weapons
Power Vit Crit Jewelry
Traits: Power 30, Prec 30, Condition 10
Combo, walk up w e, rinse and repeat
Best used in WvW gank squads, I can kill just about everything in a second or less. Grab the quickness utility skill and the one that adds 15% damage for the next 5 attacks. If you want a more PvE oriented build, I suggest you look at s/p.

Thanks TheAmpca I will give this a try….

Does this look like the build you are talking about?

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#2|3|2642|3468|3999|2786|4989|30|1738|1140|2356|30|1195|1726|1728|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|10|786|0|0|10|3|3|28043|28033|53491|53491|53491|53491|53491|25790|48788|0|0|0|0|

Rovaeden.8546:

TheAmpca.1753:

Power Prec Crit armor/weapons
Power Vit Crit Jewelry
Traits: Power 30, Prec 30, Condition 10
Combo, walk up w e, rinse and repeat
Best used in WvW gank squads, I can kill just about everything in a second or less. Grab the quickness utility skill and the one that adds 15% damage for the next 5 attacks. If you want a more PvE oriented build, I suggest you look at s/p.

Thanks TheAmpca I will give this a try….

Does this look like the build you are talking about?

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#2|3|2642|3468|3999|2786|4989|30|1738|1140|2356|30|1195|1726|1728|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|10|786|0|0|10|3|3|28043|28033|53491|53491|53491|53491|53491|25790|48788|0|0|0|0|

I don’t play much SPvP so my build looks a bit different cause of the jewelry/armor/weapon stats. The sigils and runes are what I use though.
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#19|0|2642|4004|3468|3997|4485|30|1738|1143|1704|30|1190|1193|1728|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|10|1711|0|0|0|0|3|28016|0|49970|49970|49970|49970|49970|25790|48792|48792|48792|48792|48792|

S/d spvp
S/p pve

lolwut S/D bad?

note i did not make the vid

Against good players you will have some troubles playing with S/D, but its still a pretty strong 1v1 weaponset. But the video which got posted here is bad players vs thief again.
With all dazes you can block a player at least 2/3 of the whole fight, if he doesnt dodge/evades a cloak and dagger. But you will have problems if you fight 2-3 players kitten D is very much 1v1 centered.

To deal dmg with with that weaponset you need to use your autoattack in between your dazes, which means you cant dodge that much and need to stick to your target which makes you vulnurable.

For PvE you can try to use the ambush trap. It provides you get every 35 sec for 20 sec an additional thief who works as distraction and even damage.

Every thief has problems to go toe and toe with 2-3+ mobs and due to that they tend to use black powder for perma blinds, death blossom for lots of dodges or they kite them. S/D lacks these tools though.

Lol yesterday i hit a group of player for total of 45k dmg(15×3k dmg splash roughly why they where stacking i have no idea) with 1 auto swing of sword and dagger. i think it strongest thief combo in the game.
i use http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY6KmI2PAUeGGNpdPuqV1KA (for a link of traits) or trait below
0
15 5
25 5 6
30 2 4 10
0
gear you run Valkyrie Emblazoned full armor set Superior Rune[s] of Divinity
jewelry Full berserker (untill 25 sigil of precision charges the necklace 1 ring and your cape to power vit crit dmg gear. give you max hp with out having to much crit rate)

weapons you want berserker stat weapons
sword: you want rage sigil for quickness.
dagger: Sigil of Minor Accuracy(till 25 charges)
dagger 2: sigil of force(during day time) 5% dmg
dagger 3: sigil of night(during night time) 10% during night

pistol: sigil of rage = quickness
pistol2: sigil of force = 5% dmg
pistol3: sigl of night = 10% dmg during night

Food: Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew
healing skill : hide in shadows
skill 1: Roll For Initiative
skill 2: Infiltrator Signet
skill 3: Shadow Refuge
Elite: Dagger storm

how to use this build say your inside a keep there 30 people attacking it. Oh noes ! what ever will i do ! so you jump out of the keep cast Shadow refuge(or if your a boss like me just run in use cloak and dagger like no one going to attack you). giving you 8 seconds to set up your first attack you have 3 seconds befor you can recloak if you dont wait out timer so you go 1 1 1 1 then 5 dodge repeat it that simple.

bonus of how this build works. Cloak you gain Hots + 2xMight on top of blinding your targets. when you dodge you gain 2xMight + swiftness. making you more mobile then 70% of builds.

Elite tip: when channeling dagger storm only let it go to 60% befor using a dodge to cancel it recloak right away or they will just destory you.

compair to other thief builds: you will be weak compair most thief build where there hitting for like 5-7k you only be hitting for 3-5k But you be alot more tanky and be able to rip these builds apart.

my build design as a assassin you get in you can stay in outnumber odd you can even stop capping if you are good enough at moving around. i stop one cap from a sever for over 20 minutes. im sorry if you did not want my build but i thought it mite be easier showing you it then just saying i think it good.
i have about 600 hours on my thief ratio in WvW is about 90% kill to death.

I swapped from d/d to s/d and I still use the same build, 25/30/0/0/15.

Using toughness + vitality gear with damage runes + gems, overall im having great damage with decent survivability.

I used 30 in Critical Strikes and 30 in Shadow Arts, plus Knight’s Amulet and Zerker Jewel in sPvP. I was tough as hell due to constant healing and stealth. With Sigil of Paralyzation your Tactical Strike dazes for 3 seconds, tell me how it’s not powerful.

I switched to the faceroll BS builds since then and it’s just better. But S/D is good in it’s own right.

Taobella.6597:

Lol yesterday i hit a group of player for total of 45k dmg(15×3k dmg splash roughly why they where stacking i have no idea) with 1 auto swing of sword and dagger

Of course, considering nearly all AoE in this game is capped at 5 targets, except those like the thief sword attacks which are capped at 3, I doubt you hit 15 targets in a skill.

Rovaeden.8546:

Iohanna.4863:

You shouldn’t try to go Toughness + Healing with S/D. It’s a weapon set that excels best with Precision + Stealth specialization. This creates a glass-cannon stealth Thief with a constant output of Dazes and superior mobility (via Infiltrator’s Strike).

Against a single target:

• Infiltrator’s Strike > Cloak & Dagger > Tactical Strike > Auto-attacks.

Against two are three targets (like an enemy reviving a downed enemy):

• Dancing Dagger x 3 + Auto-attacks.

Remember, in PvP a Thief depends heavily on Stealth and DPS to avoid damage. It’s hard to hit something you cannot see, and a panicked enemy is more likely to reach for his heals and escape skills rather than attack you (which your Dazes will interrupt).

Thanks for the reply Iohanna, but this IS what I have been doing. The Stealth talent line IS the Toughness / Healing line by the way. The issue I have seems to be that I don’t do enough damage to kill the target before I get 2 shot (everywhere), my blind / daze / immobilize / cripple never seems to land (in pvp / wvw), my stealth seems to constantly fail / be ignored (everywhere) and I am wearing paper for armor.

Now I say everywhere, but I’m ok when fighting 1 mob and only one mob. Unless I am in a under 40 zone I can usually take out 2-5 mobs without too much trouble. In zones 40+ I get smoked if I get 2 mobs on me. I just cannot seem to put out the damage required to kill them and I dont have the durability to tank them. No im not standing still. Yes I circle strafe and dodge. I have tried a Power and Stealth build, I have tried a power, precision build, as I think about it, i have tried every 2 line combo except power and trickery.
None seem to give me a good balance of damage and durability with the S/D… well, no durability at all even with 30 points Stealth (Toughness / healing) with a full Toughness gear set… im still wearing wet paper. : /

It appears you haven’t reached level 80 yet. This means that many trait, skill and gear options are not available for you yet. My response assumed you were a level 80 fully exotic WvW player.

For PvE, I’d much rather recommend Sword/Pistol because you can just Pistol Whip your way to victory (mobs are very predictable, just use Pistol Whip as your ‘dodge’). Focus completely on initiative regeneration and damage.

When you’re a level 80 fully exotic WvW veteran however, Sword/Dagger becomes one of the best ‘pursuit’ load-outs, and is one of the best ways to shut-down a particularly disruptive enemy (such as a ballista operator or another Thief).

I’ve been playing S/D from the start and haven’t really noticed any glaring deficiencies. Dunno what you’re going for with your build and style but my 0/0/20/30/20 build has served me well enough. I generally rely on Tactical Strike for free hits, and have myself set up to gain Might on dodge rolls and various boons on steal. I’ve got Caltrops to win by attrition if need be, Shadow Return, Withdraw and Shadow Refuge as escape options and usually use Thieves Guild. I have Dagger Storm too but I generally save that for large scale WvW battles where I can put the reflect to good use. My last utility is Signet of Shadows, quite useful for getting around quickly and avoiding unwanted fights.

Running 0/25/25/20/0 with S/D and it’s one of the best combinations of damage dealing and survivability in the game that I’ve encountered so far. Running solo, I have had no problems, anywhere, ever.

I prefer S/D in the sense that button 3 for an evading attack costs 1 less initiative.

Otherwise I don’t like heartseeker that much either. The port-back when used wisely seems like a pretty useful tool.

for sword dagger (I call this shadow style superthief) I’ve always gone with berserker setup or sometimes a balanced setup with celestial and divinity. I like 30 in shadow for shadow rejuvenation and shadow embrace. this counters power damage and condition attacks well. From there I think 20 and 30 critical points work well and your choice of the other 10 or 20 what you like.

I won’t say the set is bad or the best, I live in w3 and rarely touch the rest of the game. I live by my sword and dagger and nearly always have my 10-30-0-20-10 open template. I can switch traits within it and my utility bar is also free for whatever I want at the moment. I’ve basically geared up by loot, karma, and badges, so I didn’t have any grand plan of how I’d end up, this is simply where I am and it works.

Use everything at some point, there’s no reason not to see how everything works. Sometimes I’m protecting siege or moving a front line forward with Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge, sometimes I’m holding a camp with a force multiplier trap+thieves guild roll out. The sword/dagger set just feels natural for an open build template where my build allows me to play my character rather then playing around a build.