Guild Wars 2

Only 1.5 sec daze totaly useless in spvp.
Backstab and Surprise Shot>>>>Tactical Strike.

Always: Tactical Strike – dodge – no damage (compare with Backstab).
Thieves profession with the lowest cc in the game.
2 sec stun = awesom backstab damage.
And as stealth attacks have cd 4 seconds, then it is very very far from the stunlock. Now warriors can now easily keep in stun 6 + seconds. Ele 4 + sec unstunbreaking cc.

1.5 sec stun without stupid split pvp/pve
Now you can hold in a perma daze www / pve. That is very far from good mechanics.

About FS.
Engineer can 5 sec block all damage. And permavigor. Ranger have dodge on many skill. etk
Dodge trait have all squishy profession. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endurance

What is really too much for this ability: it is unblockable status. Spammable unlockable ability break competitive play.

/discuss

Stun would compensate for the lack of damage from “Tactical strike” and combo finishers.

i think i have to agree here. i always said TS need more dmg …not as much as bs but atleast a 4500 hit for zerk build.

Taking TS out of context of an S/D build surely looks bad as the OP says.

Place it back in context and you’ll understand why it is what it is.

What I don’t like about it is the blind when you struck from the front.

It should stun the target if from the front and knocks them down if from the back.

knockdown is even better than stun xD

Blind from the front is useful. You use it on opponents with stun immunity.

KD is way better than stun lol

TS is a daze not a stun, which means they can still move and dodge. Requires stealth to use, low dps. IMO just not worth doing stealth s/d build in spvp.

Only 2-3 viable builds in spvp.

The s/d evade build for tpvp.
10/30/0/0/30 burst build for hotjoins.
Maybe the X/30/30/X/X build for far point pusher.

Why is KD better than Stun? A Warrior can easily get 50% more crit chance on stunned players but not on KD :p So from a team fight perspective, I’d rather get Stun.

Also you can increase their duration by 1s usually just by taking a Sigil of Paralysation.

stof.9341:

Why is KD better than Stun? A Warrior can easily get 50% more crit chance on stunned players but not on KD :p So from a team fight perspective, I’d rather get Stun.

Also you can increase their duration by 1s usually just by taking a Sigil of Paralysation.

Many stunbreak does not save against KB.

I suggest 1.5 sec stun 1.5*1.15=1.725 == 2 sec stun.
spamable 3 sec stun too op.

Marduh.4603:

Many stunbreak does not save against KB.

I suggest 1.5 sec stun 1.5*1.15=1.725 == 2 sec stun.
spamable 3 sec stun too op.

All stunbreaks work fine against KD and KB. There is just an issue with the “Launch” effects which cannot be broken during the flying animation part and causes you to actually waste your stun removal skill when you do it.

Also, Tactical Strike is already a 1.5s Daze in PvP and is already not spamable that much since it’s on a 4s revealed debuff.

TS needs a buff for sure but is the issue that S/D has to many crappy skills, or that S/D #3 with a few #2 is far too good and you don’t need anything else?

I think TS just needs to be made unblockable when applied to the back and you can keep the Daze in it.

stof.9341:

I think TS just needs to be made unblockable when applied to the back and you can keep the Daze in it.

This is pointless. For it is only one application: break guardian shelter. But CnD will be blocked.
The problem is that you open with “Tactical strike”, target presses dodge and the thief does zero damage. A great tactic for burst profession.

Now crazy meta. Tactical strike from front >> Tactical strike from behind.

In my build Tactical strike does maximum 2k damage. So pathetic damage with near useless effect for stealth position attack.
Bs 6-7k damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bone_Crack
Does same damage as Tactical strike. 2 sec stun in spvp.

If you replace a daze to stun, it would have corrected the imbalance stealth attacks.
Because even now when daze for monsters equal stun. Svanir faster and easier to kill just spam 33333.

Marduh.4603:

In my build Tactical strike does maximum 2k damage. So pathetic damage with near useless effect for stealth position attack.
Bs 6-7k damage.

That’s an unfair comparison and you know it. Like I said above, you can’t take TS out of context of a Sword/Dagger build.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s an unfair comparison and you know it. Like I said above, you can’t take TS out of context of a Sword/Dagger build.

• Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
  What next nerf? Unblockable status is really not needed. Everything else will be overnerf.

Marduh.4603:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s an unfair comparison and you know it. Like I said above, you can’t take TS out of context of a Sword/Dagger build.

• Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
  What next nerf? Unblockable status is really not needed. Everything else will be overnerf.

Unblockable status is definately needed. That would be a huge nerf if unblockable removed because it would not be so good vs bunkers anymore and that is bad because S/D is supposed to be a hard counter vs bunker.

Marduh.4603:

What next nerf? Unblockable status is really not needed. Everything else will be overnerf.

Maybe it’s unblockable so that the anti boon skill in the S/D set isn’t countered by a boon. Think about that.

stof.9341:

Marduh.4603:

What next nerf? Unblockable status is really not needed. Everything else will be overnerf.

Maybe it’s unblockable so that the anti boon skill in the S/D set isn’t countered by a boon. Think about that.

ok
maybe unblockable to hit aegis

By the way
Tactical strike against mesmer/engineer:
1) You daze target
2) Target dodge and autocast clone|bomb
3) You deal zero damage
4) Engineer also buff protection

Compare WWW and spvp.
WWW:
3 sec daze 3 sec revealed
SPVP:
2 sec daze 4 sec revealed

No other controls in the game does not have such a big split.

I like TS as is right now. Up the damage a bit. Hit harder from behind would work with me or add a bleed stack from behind.

Blind and Confusion x3 @ 5 seconds from the front or Daze and bleeding x3 @ 10 seconds from behind.

The freakin icon has a serrated blade for crying out loud.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I like TS as is right now. Up the damage a bit. Hit harder from behind would work with me or add a bleed stack from behind.

Blind and Confusion x3 @ 5 seconds from the front or Daze and bleeding x3 @ 10 seconds from behind.

The freakin icon has a serrated blade for crying out loud.

Interesting idea. But it does not solve the problem of a small number of control skills. And surely does not help in a fight with another thief in another build.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I like TS as is right now. Up the damage a bit. Hit harder from behind would work with me or add a bleed stack from behind.

Blind and Confusion x3 @ 5 seconds from the front or Daze and bleeding x3 @ 10 seconds from behind.

The freakin icon has a serrated blade for crying out loud.

What good is a bunch of condition damage in a direct damage weaponset? Mixing and matching doesn’t work well for D/D or P/P, we shouldn’t introduce it to Sword Mainhand.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I like TS as is right now. Up the damage a bit. Hit harder from behind would work with me or add a bleed stack from behind.

Blind and Confusion x3 @ 5 seconds from the front or Daze and bleeding x3 @ 10 seconds from behind.

The freakin icon has a serrated blade for crying out loud.

A bleed stack on a power build? Whoopdy bloody doo… The confusion stacks aren’t a terrible idea, but I’d rathr they just undo the nerf and up the damage by 10%. It would make an S/D control build viable again, and since CnD is so highly telegraphed, I wouldn’t think of it as OP.

That’s true. I figured a little condition damage never hurts in a power build like what sword can do for warriors but thieves run on a shorter timeline to kill their target than a warrior.

So I guess that leaves us with just increasing the damage and calling it a day.

What about unblockable?

There are a lot of options, there’s just the question of where’s that sweet spot between useful for S/D (And to some extent S/P) without being OP. The blind in front option is good as it gives an option for TS to still be marginally useful against targets with Stability.

The following suggestions are in addition to the daze, unless otherwise noted.

It could just be changed from a daze to a stun/KD, as has been suggested

It could provide protection or stability for a short period (not likely, or particularly useful, since your target will be dazed…)

It could apply poison for a decent length of time (something S/D could make good use of)

It could apply some stacks of might/some swiftness/some fury to the thief

It could apply immobilize (but that would be much stronger than just changing the daze to a stun)

It could apply some stacks of vulnerability

It could grant Aegis

It could transfer a condition to your target (I actually like this one – with Shadow return, you get to make the choice of cleansing a condition or suffering it for a bit to see if you can transfer it to your target)

It could purge a boon (which isn’t all that great considering LS steals 2, but I thought I’d list it)

It could apply weakness

I mean the only major thing I don’t like about TS is its lack of damage. Often after getting hit, a person would naturally evade away and gain a bit of distance allowing the daze to wear off before you can do any real follow up damage.

After the 1 second increase on reveal S/D builds focusing on CnD, auto attack and TS became unplayable.. Even in WvW where daze lasts longer. After the revert in WvW it went back to normal, inb4 they remove the stunbreak on infiltrators strike.

Unlike D/D and P/D, S/D isn’t based around hitting for high dmg and run and restealth, it focuses around staying in melee range dealing sustained cleave dmg. it can’t affort to be stunned or have a gap where the player can put out full burst without any defensive play. And D/P and S/P has a smoke combo field which gives them more defense in melee range, and S/P has a long evade on #3 allthough they are rooted for the duration.

The space between TS daze and restealth is too huge in sPvP.
Currently.
Thief: TS
Target: Dodge
~daze runs out
Target: High dmg and stuns
Thief: Dodge high dmg and stuns
Thief: Dodge high dmg and stuns
Thief: ~reveal wears off
Thief: CnD
Target: Dodge
Target: High dmg and stuns
Thief: CnD, with low hp and escape.

Solutions:

• Increase daze duration
• Fix revealed back to normal
• Make it a stun
• Make TS deal same damage as facestab (frontal backstab) or more to force the opposing player to play more defensively instead of breaking out full burst.

So yeah, only viable S/D currently is variations of FS>LS spam builds.

Incurafy.6329:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I like TS as is right now. Up the damage a bit. Hit harder from behind would work with me or add a bleed stack from behind.

Blind and Confusion x3 @ 5 seconds from the front or Daze and bleeding x3 @ 10 seconds from behind.

The freakin icon has a serrated blade for crying out loud.

A bleed stack on a power build? Whoopdy bloody doo… The confusion stacks aren’t a terrible idea, but I’d rathr they just undo the nerf and up the damage by 10%. It would make an S/D control build viable again, and since CnD is so highly telegraphed, I wouldn’t think of it as OP.

If bleed deal 3k damage it’s good.

relevant again?

TS definitely needs more umph but there are already too many stuns/dazes/interrupts in this game. I always thought adding chill to it would be reasonable. S/X needs a reason to go into stealth and seeing how the whole set is about having high mobility while reducing the enemies it makes sense to me. Besides, they can’t just add more damage and make it rival backstab…