Guild Wars 2

What utils/traits/weapons are good for solotaking camps? D/P seems rough/inefficient.

D/P. Stack the camp and lay down that blinding field as soon as it runs out every time, then auto attack your way to glory. Gotta make sure to stack the camp though, and kill scouts first.

Edit: S/P would be good too, that way you get the evades from pistol whip. I still like D/P better though, it conserves initiative.

I find staff works best. I use with P/P build might and have them gather, Then a few vaults and AA and they go down fast. You have much better cleave with staff over dagger and the AOE in vault can not be matched. Added to that there a nice blind/vuln stacker , built in evades and an Immob breaker. Weakening charge is also effective against the blob as all strikes will hit.

The staff AA also niceley reflects projectiles for any scouts that are shooting from distance.

Unlike players the camp guards do not dodge vault.

If you’re just looking to solo camps and needing a power weapon:
Sword/pistol.
Just spam that pistol whip like no tomorrow and you should pull enough damage while evading to easily kill all those idiot NPCs

Should be noted it doesn’t really kill players that move out of it. . .

Something like this healing signet and trait that heal when crit and blindfields and caltrops and S/P.

S/P and Pistol Whip (PW) is the hardest hitting attack a thief has. PW also isn’t effected very much by the blinds scouts drop since it fires multiple attacks, it evades the entirety of attack and it has a built in stun to stop a supervisor healing.

Once you learn how to group each camp, S/P becomes one of if not the fastest camp clear attacks in the game. I can almost cap a camp solo before camp swords pop.

I’m not sure if pistol whip is the hardest attack on thief, but I can tell you that for killing groups of mobs Staff does the best job with it’s high dps, cleave, aoe, mobility and evades, it’s perfect for killing brainless mobs even if you don’t manage to group them up perfectly. If you’re weary of defenders, you should just use the weapon sets you feel most comfortable with when killing players. Might take more of a set up and time to take the camp, but if it get’s you out of trouble, staying alive comes first, right?

Not saying that staff can’t be a good weapon to kill certain professions and builds… it can be part of your main weapon sets in WvW too.

I find D/P very ineffective at clearing camps.

S/P was a significant & mindless improvement. I’ll explore Staff as well.

Anything, even shortbow.

NuhDah.9812:

I’m not sure if pistol whip is the hardest attack on thief, but I can tell you that for killing groups of mobs Staff does the best job with it’s high dps, cleave, aoe, mobility and evades, it’s perfect for killing brainless mobs even if you don’t manage to group them up perfectly.

PW has a 3.5 coefficient vs Vault at 2.25. PW hits are 33% stronger for the same init. More importantly Scout Blinding Power doesn’t mess up their attack like Vault. As I noted PW also has a stun which is great for stopping the Supervisor heal.

I have run both for a long period of time and S/P is a superior weapon set for camp clears and for fighting in general.

Straegen.2938:

NuhDah.9812:

I’m not sure if pistol whip is the hardest attack on thief, but I can tell you that for killing groups of mobs Staff does the best job with it’s high dps, cleave, aoe, mobility and evades, it’s perfect for killing brainless mobs even if you don’t manage to group them up perfectly.

PW has a 3.5 coefficient vs Vault at 2.25. PW hits are 33% stronger for the same init. More importantly Scout Blinding Power doesn’t mess up their attack like Vault. As I noted PW also has a stun which is great for stopping the Supervisor heal.

I have run both for a long period of time and S/P is a superior weapon set for camp clears and for fighting in general.

If you say so… anyways my point was I feel like staff is a safe and quick mob clear choice, at least for me that’s how it feels even if you’re right and S/P takes the first place (not that experienced with that weapon set, though I know it had better application in some pve environments then D/P when I checked it out some time ago). I’m not sure why staff feels like it gives me more freedom when I go against groups of mobs, but I guess everyone has their tastes.

Straegen.2938:

NuhDah.9812:

I’m not sure if pistol whip is the hardest attack on thief, but I can tell you that for killing groups of mobs Staff does the best job with it’s high dps, cleave, aoe, mobility and evades, it’s perfect for killing brainless mobs even if you don’t manage to group them up perfectly.

PW has a 3.5 coefficient vs Vault at 2.25. PW hits are 33% stronger for the same init. More importantly Scout Blinding Power doesn’t mess up their attack like Vault. As I noted PW also has a stun which is great for stopping the Supervisor heal.

I have run both for a long period of time and S/P is a superior weapon set for camp clears and for fighting in general.

Vault hits 5 targets and the staff AA is stronger, though. I like staff for fighting groups of enemies.

AliamRationem.5172:

Vault hits 5 targets and the staff AA is stronger, though. I like staff for fighting groups of enemies.

Problem with Staff and Vault is that hitch before it lands which allows those blinding fields, blinding shots, stuns and pulls to completely invalidate a Vault. S/P is simply a faster camp clear on average with very little risk of taking damage during the attack or wasting init. Also it performs better when roaming IMO. Staff is a novelty weapon these days thanks to players realizing how easy it is to interrupt, evade, block, etc its major attack.

The AA’s are now on par since the Staff AA nerf and the Sword buff. Staff rotation does 3.1 every 2.1s. Sword rotation does 2.9 every 1.9s.

I ran both for months and S/P to me is a better weapon set especially for upgraded camps.

Straegen.2938:

AliamRationem.5172:

Vault hits 5 targets and the staff AA is stronger, though. I like staff for fighting groups of enemies.

Problem with Staff and Vault is that hitch before it lands which allows those blinding fields, blinding shots, stuns and pulls to completely invalidate a Vault. S/P is simply a faster camp clear on average with very little risk of taking damage during the attack or wasting init. Also it performs better when roaming IMO. Staff is a novelty weapon these days thanks to players realizing how easy it is to interrupt, evade, block, etc its major attack.

The AA’s are now on par since the Staff AA nerf and the Sword buff. Staff rotation does 3.1 every 2.1s. Sword rotation does 2.9 every 1.9s.

I ran both for months and S/P to me is a better weapon set especially for upgraded camps.

Vault is also an evade so I doubt there is to much time gap where the enemy can hit you when you’re using it. Also the AA reflect is also a tool to negate blinding projectile along with sending dmg back to it’s source.

I would like to see videos on how people take t3 camps, which has both scouts and protectors (who pull).

d/p vs s/p (5 1 1 1 5 1 1 1…): dagger 1 hits 2 targets while sword 1 hits 3 targets. Sword has 1/2 sec cast times.

While not the OPs question as I am to describe a Condition build , THIS is very fast and will take out fully upgraded camps fast.

This includes all mercenary stocked camps.

SOM traited DB build taking Caltrops AND being an Asura. Load up radiation field from racial skills. This a 15 second poison field. Drop on the clustered group. Drop caltrops and DB away in the poison field. A daggerstrom in said field is also effective albeit leaving you subject to attacks.

NuhDah.9812:

Vault is also an evade so I doubt there is to much time gap where the enemy can hit you when you’re using it. Also the AA reflect is also a tool to negate blinding projectile along with sending dmg back to it’s source.

Go duel Staff and see how accurately a player will interrupt, dodge, etc. I can do it about 90% of the time half in the bag. It will also miss 100% of the time trying to land in a blinding field as the hitch happens before it lands. Staff just gets obliterated by good players.

Best way to flip a camp is to find its gathering spot, put everything in one place and spam damage. Either the player is using AA on the group while taking damage or spamming Vault with the occasional misses, stuns, pulls. S/P does not have any of that mess to deal with since it evades the entire time and pops a stun each time.

Try them both on an upgraded camp… I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how efficient PW is and how nice an extra teleport with condi removal can be.

Straegen.2938:

NuhDah.9812:

Vault is also an evade so I doubt there is to much time gap where the enemy can hit you when you’re using it. Also the AA reflect is also a tool to negate blinding projectile along with sending dmg back to it’s source.

Go duel Staff and see how accurately a player will interrupt, dodge, etc. I can do it about 90% of the time half in the bag. It will also miss 100% of the time trying to land in a blinding field as the hitch happens before it lands. Staff just gets obliterated by good players.

Best way to flip a camp is to find its gathering spot, put everything in one place and spam damage. Either the player is using AA on the group while taking damage or spamming Vault with the occasional misses, stuns, pulls. S/P does not have any of that mess to deal with since it evades the entire time and pops a stun each time.

Try them both on an upgraded camp… I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how efficient PW is and how nice an extra teleport with condi removal can be.

I was talking about fighting camp guards, not players. I mean, wasn’t that the topic? And I’m also not denying what you say about your preferred S/P version, I was just pointing out some things you ignored about the staff capability in clearing groups of mobs.

NuhDah.9812:

I was talking about fighting camp guards, not players. I mean, wasn’t that the topic? And I’m also not denying what you say about your preferred S/P version, I was just pointing out some things you ignored about the staff capability in clearing groups of mobs.

When clearing camps, you are going to fight players. Camps don’t exist in a vacuum. Consideration must given to that fact and Staff is at a fairly large disadvantage against many players.

Even with camp guards particularly on upgraded camps, Vault is still vulnerable. Upgraded camps with mercenaries are no picnic when grouped up especially when an attack chain goes wrong which is more likely to happen with Staff.

Run with both for a few weeks. Outside of Staff as a change of pace offhand weapon, I gave up on it.

I take a bit over a min total (with ring) to cap a camp with my D/D SB thief – that usually isn’t enough for anyone to show up and stop me. I’ve perfectioned the mind games where to go next back in the day and that would still work even with sentries who give me away. I can avoid enemy players perfectly fine.

Anyway: My thief carries all weapons thief can use with him, I can swap them after taking a camp.

Before June last year camps were way harder to cap (npcs were tougher because they forgot to nerf the wvw mobs when they introduced ferocity and nerfed all other mobs – they fixed that last June). But even then Metabattle had a video of a guy who solo capped a 200 camp (which took me several minutes) in “under fourty five seconds” (+24s when the ring is up) – he used: Smoke Screen, S/P, thieves guild. Personally I would still use Daggerstorm but I’m a die hard fan of that skill as you all know.

ETA: My zerker thief is the fastest to cap camps, unsurprisingly. But only by 1 or 2 seconds.

I usually D/P and engage with BP→Steal to land the BP on their feet, then auto-attack then HS before BP wears off which puts me in stealth for a BS finish — then disengage. Rise and repeat. I target the ranged first. In case there are other players, I swap to P/P then kite them around while focusing on the player.

S/P can work also and it has better damage output, however, the set is very expensive to use thus it is very limiting. You basically have to ignore half of your weapon skills just to use 2 of 5 skills. The mobility on S/P is horrible too. I can use HS with D/P as an escape, while S/P is SoL, and in addition D/P has stealth. I only use S/P during siege taking out siege engines. Since I can’t crit on structures, Pistol Whip is the best anti-structure. However lately I find Staff auto-attack more efficient since it doesn’t require initiative and has comparable damage.

You can also use Staff to clear the camp faster. Like others have said, you need to stack them so you have a good return on your Vault. Keep in mind that you need to keep at least 5 initiatives in reserves just in case you need to disengage due to lack of stealth. It may not look like it, but Weakening Strike travels the same distance as HS for the same cost, so you can use this as a disengage.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I usually D/P and engage with BP->Steal to land the BP on their feet, then auto-attack then HS before BP wears off which puts me in stealth for a BS finish — then disengage. Rise and repeat. I target the ranged first. In case there are other players, I swap to P/P then kite them around while focusing on the player.

S/P can work also and it has better damage output, however, the set is very expensive to use thus it is very limiting. You basically have to ignore half of your weapon skills just to use 2 of 5 skills. The mobility on S/P is horrible too. I can use HS with D/P as an escape, while S/P is SoL, and in addition D/P has stealth. I only use S/P during siege taking out siege engines. Since I can’t crit on structures, Pistol Whip is the best anti-structure. However lately I find Staff auto-attack more efficient since it doesn’t require initiative and has comparable damage.

You can also use Staff to clear the camp faster. Like others have said, you need to stack them so you have a good return on your Vault. Keep in mind that you need to keep at least 5 initiatives in reserves just in case you need to disengage due to lack of stealth. It may not look like it, but Weakening Strike travels the same distance as HS for the same cost, so you can use this as a disengage.

With the SP set I use bounding dodger in the smoke field for stealth if needed. Ini wise this is cheaper then the d/p method. Added to that when you have stacked might via p/p and swap to your s/p a bounding dodge into the midst of the mob will do great damage ini free.

Yeah, leaping with Bounding gives S/P stealth, however Bounding is a no-no unless you’re in a group.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yeah, leaping with Bounding gives S/P stealth, however Bounding is a no-no unless you’re in a group.

I find this to be more or less true.

Stealth handicaps several thief builds including S/P. Black Powder is good for stomps, can make camp caps painless and is solid around other thieves but mostly it sits unused in combat on my builds. It is far better to become proficient on IS and IR coupled with defensive skills like Bandits and Shadow Step.

Mastering D/P tends to handicap players shifting to other weapons due to the reliance on stealth. Stealth isn’t necessary and in some cases sub-optimal.

Straegen.2938:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yeah, leaping with Bounding gives S/P stealth, however Bounding is a no-no unless you’re in a group.

I find this to be more or less true.

Stealth handicaps several thief builds including S/P. Black Powder is good for stomps, can make camp caps painless and is solid around other thieves but mostly it sits unused in combat on my builds. It is far better to become proficient on IS and IR coupled with defensive skills like Bandits and Shadow Step.

Mastering D/P tends to handicap players shifting to other weapons due to the reliance on stealth. Stealth isn’t necessary and in some cases sub-optimal.

Stealth is necessary at gaining tactical advantage regardless of build. However, to trade Dash to Bound just to gain stealth is never a good idea unless running with a group or zerg. Besides, S/P is a very expensive set costing 6 init + 50 endurance just to Bound on BP. That’s 50 endurace that could have been used to trigger “on evade” abilities.

IS/IR is very costly for a marginal damage and really only useful when used in S/D because the immob can benefit both CnD and FS/LS. You also lose cleanse with IR if you use any other skill after IS — it would be nice if it functions like FS/LS. But, yes, I agree that BP in S/P don’t really see much play for me either.

Now I feel stupid – I run into camps, daggerstorm them, blast until only 2-3 are still standing and then switch to D/D – takes me ~30 seconds (+29 s for the ring (stopped the time, I think 24s is for when more than one are in the ring). Fully upgraded camps are a tad harder but by far not hard as they used to be.

And you guys sound as if it’s a science!

I can go in the camp with Thieve’s Guild and triggered Ambush using P/P and clean it up in no time…but what’s the fun in that?

Then show us: topic of this thread: “How to cap a camp the fastest” :P

And that does make sense: I have often been the only one from my server who was online for several hours. When I started solo roaming I used my new skill to solo cap camps to go onto a 6 hours camp capping marathon. The other server tried to get 695 PPT, so I had at least 3 groups of 5 chasing me over all maps – they never got their max PPT.

That is more fun to me than to analyze how to kill npcs to have the most fun while at it :P

Well the discussion is taking into the account that there might be players nearby responding to the camp being contested. Thus a certain build is necessary to take out the player(s) in addition to the NPC. I know for a fact that my fastest camp take over strategy will crumble when a single player shows up to prevent me from capping it. With that in mind, other posters have posted their own approach and what their exit plans are — which is essential for those who don’t choose “blood-port” as an efficient exit plan.

That wasn’t the question and capping a camp in 1 min is too little time for most players as they’re rarely standing around waiting for a roamer.
And in even in that case: SB/staff + D/P or whatever your favourite set is good enough to do both.

ETA. Just saying because you make it sound far more complicated than it actually is and the OP is obviously pretty new at wvw – no need to confuse them.

And I’m not completely helpless, even with D/D. I deal with not being able to kill 2 or some classes like berserker – but in that case I have bliding powder and shadow refuge to run.

Ah, but it’s implied, otherwise what’s the point of this thread?

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

best way currently is probably just go dagger storm stand by scout put on staff vault couple times camp done. probably clear it in 30 seconds.

Jana.6831:

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

Nope, but I was curious to see what people’s preferences were!

I found D/P + BP→Auto very slow. The S/P PW suggestion has massively sped it up and is super easy to equip when I get to a camp.

Fernshade.9016:

Gotta make sure to stack the camp though, and kill scouts first.

How do you get the two scouts to stack? Or is the solution to gib one and then stack on the other?

Blaqatak.1395:

Jana.6831:

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

Nope, but I was curious to see what people’s preferences were!

I found D/P + BP->Auto very slow. The S/P PW suggestion has massively sped it up and is super easy to equip when I get to a camp.

Fernshade.9016:

Gotta make sure to stack the camp though, and kill scouts first.

How do you get the two scouts to stack? Or is the solution to gib one and then stack on the other?

Either do that, or LoS behind something roughly in a line with the two scouts, so they run the same direction to attack you. They should end up pretty close together if you do it right.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Blaqatak.1395:

Jana.6831:

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

Nope, but I was curious to see what people’s preferences were!

I found D/P + BP->Auto very slow. The S/P PW suggestion has massively sped it up and is super easy to equip when I get to a camp.

Fernshade.9016:

Gotta make sure to stack the camp though, and kill scouts first.

How do you get the two scouts to stack? Or is the solution to gib one and then stack on the other?

Either do that, or LoS behind something roughly in a line with the two scouts, so they run the same direction to attack you. They should end up pretty close together if you do it right.

Can you typically pull that off quickly?

Do swords show up once theyve aggroed, dealt damage, or received damage?

Blaqatak.1395:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Blaqatak.1395:

Jana.6831:

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

Nope, but I was curious to see what people’s preferences were!

I found D/P + BP->Auto very slow. The S/P PW suggestion has massively sped it up and is super easy to equip when I get to a camp.

Fernshade.9016:

Gotta make sure to stack the camp though, and kill scouts first.

How do you get the two scouts to stack? Or is the solution to gib one and then stack on the other?

Either do that, or LoS behind something roughly in a line with the two scouts, so they run the same direction to attack you. They should end up pretty close together if you do it right.

Can you typically pull that off quickly?

Do swords show up once theyve aggroed, dealt damage, or received damage?

It’s a certain time after they’ve aggro’d or dealt damage I think, as towers have got swords just from me running past the guards and getting blinded before.

It’s normally pretty quick, I use infiltrators to aggro/return, place black powder and start autoing as they turn the corner, then pistol whip after flanking strikes trait wears off. That normally does the job.

swords show up 30 s after you attacked (until it’s bugged out lately as I didn’t pay attention to it – give me a few mins)

ETA: Jepp 30s after you first attacked or have been attacked.

Jana.6831:

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

The OP was asking for the “best” build not the “fast” build. The “fast” build is not always the “best” build and the “best” build may not always be the “fastest”. The term “best” implied that it’s capable in most scenario, which means including other player(s) trying to defend it. You can’t really Dagger Storm your way into the camp when a player is defending it, thus that is not the “best” build or strategy for that matter. Thus this thread contains posts from different perspectives, approaches, and builds. Not rocket science, just an Asura Strategical Simulation.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jana.6831:

To help the OP to cap camps (because that was their question) – even that isn’t rocket science :P

The OP was asking for the “best” build not the “fast” build. The “fast” build is not always the “best” build and the “best” build may not always be the “fastest”. The term “best” implied that it’s capable in most scenario, which means including other player(s) trying to defend it. You can’t really Dagger Storm your way into the camp when a player is defending it, thus that is not the “best” build or strategy for that matter. Thus this thread contains posts from different perspectives, approaches, and builds. Not rocket science, just an Asura Strategical Simulation.

That’s a bit nit picking, isn’kitten and I can daggerstorm into a camp even if there’s a player defending it – and in that case the question should’ve been “I want the best build for capping a defended camp”.
ETA: For the best build for D/P rest of wvw: get the build from metabattle. But remember that you need aoe damage for camps.

To make it simple: The best build to cap a camp is full zerker because camps are PvE. The best weapon to cap a Tier 1 to Tier 2 camp is SB, T3 would be S/P – again in full zerker.

Any more questions? And I would’ve left the forums for good if anyone had answered me a genuine question like “well if it’s defended then you better roll berserker warrior”

ETA: “Well then why don’t you leave? you see we’re pros and you’re not – a female player can’t play, we all know that!” – because you guys have no clue about D/D and constantly try to ruin it.

if a camp is defend it become to what class you are fighting. WvW to vague to give you a solid answer on how to deal with it but more then likely answer remain the same.

focus on nuking the scouts then whatever class is in the camp. if your running a power build scout should only take 3 hits to kill.

Jana.6831:

~snip~and in that case the question should’ve been “I want the best build for capping a defended camp”.~snip~

Step: Buy an Arrow Cart schematics

You know the rest.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jana.6831:

~snip~and in that case the question should’ve been “I want the best build for capping a defended camp”.~snip~

Step: Buy an Arrow Cart schematics

You know the rest.

Good luck with that, especially since you have 25 supps max if solo capping.

Jana.6831:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jana.6831:

~snip~and in that case the question should’ve been “I want the best build for capping a defended camp”.~snip~

Step: Buy an Arrow Cart schematics

You know the rest.

Good luck with that, especially since you have 25 supps max if solo capping.

Regardless, it’s the best build.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Straegen.2938:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yeah, leaping with Bounding gives S/P stealth, however Bounding is a no-no unless you’re in a group.

I find this to be more or less true.

Stealth handicaps several thief builds including S/P. Black Powder is good for stomps, can make camp caps painless and is solid around other thieves but mostly it sits unused in combat on my builds. It is far better to become proficient on IS and IR coupled with defensive skills like Bandits and Shadow Step.

Mastering D/P tends to handicap players shifting to other weapons due to the reliance on stealth. Stealth isn’t necessary and in some cases sub-optimal.

Stealth is necessary at gaining tactical advantage regardless of build. However, to trade Dash to Bound just to gain stealth is never a good idea unless running with a group or zerg. Besides, S/P is a very expensive set costing 6 init + 50 endurance just to Bound on BP. That’s 50 endurace that could have been used to trigger “on evade” abilities.

IS/IR is very costly for a marginal damage and really only useful when used in S/D because the immob can benefit both CnD and FS/LS. You also lose cleanse with IR if you use any other skill after IS — it would be nice if it functions like FS/LS. But, yes, I agree that BP in S/P don’t really see much play for me either.

Disagree entirely on dash versus bound. Firstly I have 100 percent uptime swiftness and multiple immob breaks in the build. I also have multiple ways to clear chill and cripple. Dash does nothing more for the build in this regard. I do not need all those immob breaks. it overkill.

Bound on the other hand can get me 6k AOE damage with ease and is a blast finisher for using water firelds I steal off rangers ethereal fields and the like.

To Bound to stealth I am not sure where you get the idea this does not proc an evade. Of course it does. When flipping a camp more often than not a ranger shows. The first thing a ranger does is used Rapid Fire. Your HS to stealth with Black powder is not an evade. It will not clear the vuln stacks or avoid the channel of the RF. Bound to stealth will do both. Further to that if the camp still has guards I am all but assured an evade and all of its procs due to their own attacks launched as I evade.

I am now stealthed and can decide to enage the ranger or move in another direction entirely. The Vuln the ranger applied is cleared and a good part of the RF avoided. I am ahead of the guy who stealthed via Powder and HS in all aspects but endurance, but avoiding atttacks and proccing on evade traits is what endurance is for..

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IS/IR is very costly for a marginal damage and really only useful when used in S/D because the immob can benefit both CnD and FS/LS. You also lose cleanse with IR if you use any other skill after IS — it would be nice if it functions like FS/LS. But, yes, I agree that BP in S/P don’t really see much play for me either.

You aren’t using IS/IR properly if being used for direct damage. IS is used to position for a second or third PW, the thief then has 15s to pop IR. That is a teleport to a target with Immobilize and a return 15s later with condi removal for a total of 5 init. Only 3 if the player doesn’t return.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Stealth is necessary at gaining tactical advantage regardless of build. However, to trade Dash to Bound just to gain stealth is never a good idea unless running with a group or zerg. Besides, S/P is a very expensive set costing 6 init + 50 endurance just to Bound on BP. That’s 50 endurace that could have been used to trigger “on evade” abilities.

Stealth is absolutely not necessary on a thief. I believe it is heavy compared to using pure mobility these days. D/P uses 9 init for a few seconds of stealth. Add on SA and a thief handcuffs themselves to a sub-par damage line. Once a player frees themselves from the stealth shackles several new variations of builds open up. Players with good situational awareness particularly excel.

Our crew stopped using stealth about a year ago and instead focused on builds that hit harder with higher mobility. We are far more dangerous running without stealth and every bit as slippery.

To stealth itself since Daredevil and Acro revamp I find I use it way less than I did when I first started. Dodges and ports and the evades on a given weaponset are used far more often while still keeping up the pressure withh damage.

That said the occasional stealth to misdirect or escape does not hurt. It nice to use once in a while on staff, and the P/d condition build will use it more.

babazhook.6805:

Disagree entirely on dash versus bound. Firstly I have 100 percent uptime swiftness and multiple immob breaks in the build. I also have multiple ways to clear chill and cripple. Dash does nothing more for the build in this regard. I do not need all those immob breaks.

What are you running for 100% swiftness uptime and multiple immob breaks?
If the swiftness is coming from thrill of the crime + pack runes, are you burning steal on CD to get around in WvW?

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Straegen.2938:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yeah, leaping with Bounding gives S/P stealth, however Bounding is a no-no unless you’re in a group.

I find this to be more or less true.

Stealth handicaps several thief builds including S/P. Black Powder is good for stomps, can make camp caps painless and is solid around other thieves but mostly it sits unused in combat on my builds. It is far better to become proficient on IS and IR coupled with defensive skills like Bandits and Shadow Step.

Mastering D/P tends to handicap players shifting to other weapons due to the reliance on stealth. Stealth isn’t necessary and in some cases sub-optimal.

Stealth is necessary at gaining tactical advantage regardless of build. However, to trade Dash to Bound just to gain stealth is never a good idea unless running with a group or zerg. Besides, S/P is a very expensive set costing 6 init + 50 endurance just to Bound on BP. That’s 50 endurace that could have been used to trigger “on evade” abilities.

IS/IR is very costly for a marginal damage and really only useful when used in S/D because the immob can benefit both CnD and FS/LS. You also lose cleanse with IR if you use any other skill after IS — it would be nice if it functions like FS/LS. But, yes, I agree that BP in S/P don’t really see much play for me either.

Disagree entirely on dash versus bound. Firstly I have 100 percent uptime swiftness and multiple immob breaks in the build. I also have multiple ways to clear chill and cripple. Dash does nothing more for the build in this regard. I do not need all those immob breaks. it overkill.

Bound on the other hand can get me 6k AOE damage with ease and is a blast finisher for using water firelds I steal off rangers ethereal fields and the like.

Well yes, in certain builds Dash may be overkill. However, the beauty of Dash is that it opens up an option to add more overall damage at the same time a very good engage/disengage ability. Dash has the farthest travel distance compared to other dodge augmentations (i.e. Bound) — it’s not just about the anti-immob.

To Bound to stealth I am not sure where you get the idea this does not proc an evade. Of course it does. When flipping a camp more often than not a ranger shows. The first thing a ranger does is used Rapid Fire. Your HS to stealth with Black powder is not an evade. It will not clear the vuln stacks or avoid the channel of the RF. Bound to stealth will do both. Further to that if the camp still has guards I am all but assured an evade and all of its procs due to their own attacks launched as I evade.

I think you misread my post about this. I never posted anything to that notion that it does not proc evade, in fact, I said that opposite. What I said was, I could’ve used the 50 endurance to proc an evade instead of using it to go in stealth.

I mean come on, who tries to go in stealth while being channeled with Rapid Fire? Rapid Fire has a channel time of 2.5s while Bound only have .75s of evade frame…meaning, you’re still getting hit by Rapid Fire even in stealth. Dash is actually the best counter to Rapid Fire because not only you evade the arrows, you can also get out of range while proc’ing on-evade effect.

You can then re-engage in stealth while out of range. HS to BP + Steal (no Mug) can set you up for a BS from 1500 range.

I am now stealthed and can decide to enage the ranger or move in another direction entirely.

Not really. BP has a casting time of .5s and Bound has .75s of evade, meaning you’re eating 1.75s of Rapid Fire even in stealth. Because of this, the Ranger can see where you at and besides, what exactly does S/P do from stealth? Daze? Blind? The damage from Tactical Strike is pathetic. You can surely use Pistol Whip but that’s an expensive way of doing it and stealth is unnecessary.

The Vuln the ranger applied is cleared and a good part of the RF avoided. I am ahead of the guy who stealthed via Powder and HS in all aspects but endurance, but avoiding atttacks and proccing on evade traits is what endurance is for..

I disagree. As I mentioned above, you’re eating 1.75s out of 2.5s of channeled RF even in stealth. Escapist Absolution will only remove 3 out of 10 stacks of vulnerability due to its ICD. If you delay the removal of the stacks so you can remove more than 3 stacks, the damage is already done because each consecutive arrows will benefit from the current stack of Vulnerability. If you remove it too early, you’re going to eat 8 out of 10 arrows from RF.

The only practical way to avoid further damage and stacks of Vulnerability is to evade the first volley, thus removing/preventing the stacks of Vulnerability, then get out of range to prevent damage and further stacks. Dash can grant you that kind of protection that Bound cannot.