Preface-Both classes were had today in discussion of our class, thief in case you forgot. Thanks to all who came and future thanks to those who care to offer more insight to this thread that were not able to come. Remember, the goal here is to help those new to the profession or maybe even add some spice to already existing fighting styles in regards to weaponsets that one may not find themselves using as often as others (Just don’t do only pistol mainhand by any means). These were also discussed in terms of Player vs. Player environment. PvE will likely be discussed later…if ever. Not every skill will be covered by me since not every single skill was discussed. That does not mean however that one cannot contribute to its usefulness or lack thereof in the comments below.
D/P: The PvP Meta
Foreword-A versatile weaponset that can handle almost any situation
Heartseeker- Staple in Dagger mainhand, it gains an extra use in DP, its leap finisher is used to gain stealth in tandem with Blinding powder. A slightly more advanced technique one should get familiar with is aiming the camera down so the HS doesn’t travel far, allowing one to get off up to four HS+ BP combos.
Shadowshot- A very useful initiator/ chaser that gives a blind and a very powerful strike. Obviously not to be spammed as with any skill that uses initiative, but it should be a familiar skill seen on your combat log.
Headshot- Not much was said here, but if you roll D/P, you should familiar yourself with other class’ cast times and animations to get the full bang from this skill. Invaluable as it interrupts healing and interrupts skills that may possibly hurt/down you if you don’t take advantage of the moment. Do not spam this however. Don’t spam any skill, but if for some reason you spam, don’t let it be this. It’s strength comes from it’s utility, not its power.
Black Powder- One of the more infamous skills of a D/P, this should also be a familiar skill to one wishing to primary the D/P set. A good strategy to use with skill is to fight inside of it when fighting a melee enemy. Right before the field goes away, get off a heartseeker to at least be given stealth in its final moments so that you may get off a Backstab. It has a relatively small area of effect so the Heartseeker trick mentioned above will help one get a longer stealth period if they desire to cast this skill and gain stealth right away. A counter to this method, by the way, is standing in the smoke field a thief casts; this is because the thief will HS into you and reveal themselves. Not only that but their camera will be aiming down disorienting them. So if you want to get off multiple combos, be wary no one is near enough to pull off this counter.
D/D: The iconic weaponset
Foreword- The most bursty weapon set thieves have, this is balanced, sadly, by its limited tools
Heartseeker- Essentially, same as D/P only you do not have a smoke field to work with, usually. However this skill will be used more as it adds to D/D’s power. It also will be used as a gap closer as D/D does not have a built in shadowstep.
Deathblossom- Part of D/D controversy stems from this move. If you are a power build, this skill is almost useless, but if you are a condition build, this skill is practically the only one used. So what is it? It can build up bleeds very well, and has a small evade window, but if you are a power thief, it’s best to try and save initiative for your other core move(s). If you are a condition D/D, then use this move to your heart’s content. Supplement yourself with other utility bleeds and methods to keep yourself over your opponent however such as caltrops, steal/shadowstep etc.
Dancing Dagger- If you are new to thief, then I am sorry that you did not experience this skill when it was 50% stronger. It is the only ranged attack D/D has and it offers a cripple, however it is pretty situational. Use it to keep dangerous melee enemies away for a bit like hammer warriors so that you can get the distance drop on them. Or use it when someone is starting to run away to cripple and catch up to them. Do not use it when they are running as the dagger travels too slow and you will be wasting initiative. This skill bounces up to three times also, so if used on say a ranger, if the pet is close enough, the dagger will hit the ranger twice. This only applies to one companion following an enemy, any more and the dagger will bounce between companions.
Cloak and Dagger- This will be your best friend/worst enemy if you role D/D. A very strong attack that grants you stealth and the enemy vulnerability. It is a staple move in D/D as it allows you to perform backstab. Another controversy for D/D also comes from this move though as it actually needs to hit in order for D/D to do maximum damage. A good opponent will try to play footsies with you if they know what a D/D is/isn’t capable of. If used in conjunction with a blink (i.e. steal, Infiltrator’s Signet, etc.) then that usually solidifies a hit assuming they do not dodge. More advanced technique is to start casting CnD and before it can finish, initiate a steal or a shadowstep or whatever kind of blink so that way your target gets stabbed instantly. Buffing CnD with Basilisk Venom is an awesome way to secure a backstab.
S/D: Agility set
Foreword- This set can be initiative hungry if one rushes to get their moves out, but a nice steady and confident use of skills should keep initiative starvation at bay whilst giving the thief survivability.
Infiltrator’s Strike: This move can be used as a bread and butter attack (this does not equate to spamming) as it can get you ontop of an enemy and circle around them while they are immobilized for a second. you may also retreat with I. Return is you need to (and cure a condition as well). This is also very great at confusing your foes with the sheer amount of teleporting you can do, just mind your initiative! Advanced technique is that you can “cancel” the Return if you jump and cast the return at nearly the same time. if one correctly, the skill will roll back to I. Strike but you will have not traveled backwards. This allows you to chase down someone very quickly. It is also worth noting that even if the enemy is out of range, you can still use this skill to travel its distance toward them anyway.
Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike- These are very handy moves that allow one to hit and not be hit if used correctly. Even if the enemy is not seen (stealth) FS can be used as a makeshift dodge to prevent a potential burst. This move should be incorporated into your combos frequently as it allows you to fight toe-to-toe with hard hitting specs and also because the roll-over, LS, is a hard-hitting move that also steals a boon. You can help LS hit by using the same techniques mentioned for Cloak and Dagger.
Dancing Dagger- Will , in my opinion, be used less in this set as you have better chase options….obviously.
Cloak and Dagger- This skills makes a return but will be used more or less depending on your S/D playstyle. Regardless, it gives stealth giving you tactical strike. This stealth skill is a great controller as it dazes if hit from behind or blinds if hit from the front, allowing you to get more damage out and/or make your foe panic.
S/P: This roots you.
Foreword- We are looking at a hybrid of S/D and D/P so it has a mix of both tools, and its very own which is used often.
Infiltrator’s Strike- See S/D however do not use this as much as you would on an S/D build. Only because you will need to save some initiative for another move you will find yourself using a lot called
Pistol Whip- In total, a very powerful attack. This roots you but you evade everything coming you way during the flurry. The starting stun it not very long and most won’t stay in the full flurry. However, you can ensure that most of the flurry hits in various ways. Starting with IS can offer a slight immobilize to help the daze, this allows more of the flurry to hit the foe. Devourer venom may also help as it applies immobilize.
The key thing here is is that if there is anything you want to hit, it is the flurry, combine that with mechanical knowledge that blinks do not interrupt skills, you can pre-cast PW and once the stun attack is over, blink to the target to have them get almost the full duration of the flurry. Basilisk venom or even devourer venom attached to this method will ensure a powerful burst.
Headshot-See D/P
Black Powder- See D/P, although fighting in it is more potent here due to PW.
P/P-Seems bad@$$, feels bad@$$
Foreword-This was not touched today, so feel free to post techniques below for those who are adept at the set, also touching on what build you use.
P/D-The “troll”
Foreword This set likes CnD as well but it has other tricks up its sleeve, and it is very frustrating to fight against.
Bodyshot- This skill wasn’t discussed, I wonder why. It’s vulnerability isn’t long nor is the skill very powerful. Try to imagine it’s not there.
Shadow Strike-This skill will be a very nice skill. Even for a condition based skill for the torment, this skill can hit really hard. If pre-casted when you are just out of melee range, you can compensate for potential lag and secure a hit. Comboing this together is also very strong.
Dancing Dagger- See D/D
Cloak and Dagger- Still as useful as ever, you’ll need this to get off Sneak Attack which hits pretty hard and stacks some nice bleeding for condi builds.
-A nice starting combo chain with this weaponset is to pre-cast Cloak and Dagger>Steal>Sneak attack> Shadow Strike, this gives a lot of pressure right away.
Shortbow- What every thief carries
Foreword- Not really much for a foreword here, this weapon, or tool rather is just so useful.
Clusterbomb- The skill that many wish were further and faster, this is the “burst” skill of SB. Spamming this is actually a technique if called for to detonate the cluster. This is also used if you’re playing the ranged game and need to do more damage than your autoattack.
Disabling Shot-Probably one of the best gap openers in the game as it puts you further away and applies a decently lengthed cripple. It also acts as a usually reliable evade if playing the ranged game and you want to dodge around. Careful though, all this dodging and going crazy is addicting and you may run out of initiative
Also a projectile finisher which may come in handy in certain situations.
Choking Gas- Another once great skill that was hurt, this now deals physical damage, getting rid of the technique of popping it while in stealth, nor does the poison last as long as its unholy days. Still has some use though for destroying healing potential and keeping a target downed while you work your way to finish them.
Infiltrator’s Arrow- yeah you’ll be using this to move around a lot, it’s a great movement skill to disengage as well. You ca also use it to engage as it provides a lengthy blind. Be sure to switch to your other weaponset to start your burst combo, because you’ll totally have shortbow on you always, at least until HoT.
Utilities:
Deception:
We will focus on the ones discussed starting with Shadowstep-
Shadowstep- Hands down one of the best utilities for the thief, stun-breaking, gap-opening, gap closing, juking, condi-clear. the only thing you’d get annoyed about it is with it’s CD but hey, it’s too kitten useful. I don’t need to say how to use it, it speaks for itself. Also has some limited three-dimensional movement instead of just side to side or front and back.
Shadow Refuge- One of the most powerful spells in the game. Also easily countered. You can dodge while inside of this mind you, just move to one side. And never leave the circle before it disappears. Can be used to initiate, or if you want, a disengage/fight restarter.
Smoke Screen-Very situational, most thieves don’t touch this. PvE is an exception every now and then but that’s another thread’s worth of information. All it has going for it PvP-wise is the projectile blocking. But it can be clusterbombed for a group stealthing.
Blinding Powder- This skill isn’t bad, it’s just that you’ll need more useful utilities on your bar like stun breakers and conditions clearers. This is outshined by those that can due the aforementioned.
Tricks:
Scorpion Wire- This skill would be outstanding if it weren’t for it buggy pulling and the foe stopping halfway. It has a very long reach and actually does a respectable amount of damage to soften prey up a bit as you pull them into your jaws. Also, I’ve been informed we want our thieves to shout “GET OVER HERE” when casting this skill if we ever use it, because it is buggy.
Roll for Initiative-No not Dungeons and Dragons to see who goes first, you’ll be using this as a means to stun-break, regain initiative, or gain distance. This is another popular skill for good reason. You can also use this to close gaps by facing away from the foe and using it. If a thief for some reason doesn’t have Shadow step, they will most likely have this to replace it.
Haste- Another skill that gives you good things, but it’s CD is too long to warrant it, and there is a trait that gives you Haste as well. In theory it is awesome for DPS, which it is, but then it’s on a minute CD. So for the most part, ignore this utility.
Caltrops- And awesome utility that adds extra damage, especially on condi builds. stacks an unholy duration of cripple and is on a short CD. This is awesome for area control and can be used in a variety of situations. No one will want to fight in these. Casting them while in stealth is a nice surprise as well as the enemy will already be in them. Wiring them back in (if it worked right!) is a fun and hilarious tactic if they try to escape.
Signets:
Assassin’s Signet- The extra power is appealing, so if you ever feel as though you want this on your bar, don’t ever activate it. The 15% dmg comes out to about the same extra damage as the initial 180 power it gives you. You’ll be wasting a CD. Besides, there are other cool signets like
Signet of agility- Awesome awesome signet. This is a great one to have on your bar. The extra precision adds some DPS and if you ever are in a dire situation that calls for it, activating this bad boy cures a condition on not only you, but nearby allies! AND refills your endurance!
Infiltrator’s Signet- (Am I the only one who thinks Signet of Shadows and this signet’s pictures should be swapped?) A competitor for Signet of Agility, this doesn’t cure conditions, but it does refill initiative by 1 every every ten seconds….okay you caught me, the main reason this is used, outside of stunbreaking, is for it’s shadowstep, which travels the distance stated to the target, so even if you are out of range, it will still travel the distance toward them, like Sword skill #2. Great opener if steal is on CD and chaser as well.
Signet of Shadows- You’ll rarely if ever use this in sPvP. This is a PvE and even WvW signet for it’s speed boost. The blind is really cool for securing a stomp actually or just mitigating some damage, but if you expect to regularly incorporate this into your combos, you’ll be disappointed. WvW is a bit more risky because you will essentially be down a utility bar, but it is doable, just harder.
Venoms:
Lol unless venom share
Traps:
Needle Trap- Pretty good for the conditions is gives out, however, it works best coming from Trapper’s Respite rather than the actual utility bar so as to save you another skill.
Trip Wire- Pretty trolly and unblockable. Not really something anyone uses really. It doesn’t offer much beside a small CC and a base 5 second cripple.
Shadow trap- From personal experience, this can be a cool trap to “goose guard” a position. The stealth it gives you when activated is pretty lengthy as well as the might and fury so capitalize on it. It can be broken early to teleport back to it and break stun, yet that has a cast time so how the kitten that works is beyond me. I don’t think it does but someone can correct me on that.
Ambush- Calls in a fellow thief. It’s a weaker Thieves’ Guild. This guy also benefits from venom share but as tempting as a buddy is, I personally don’t think it’s worth it on your bar for SPvP.
Heals:
Withdraw- Popular in sPvP due to it’s very short CD and gap opening, or closing if you turn away. It’s healing seems a bit weak however but that doesn’t stop most from rolling it. It cures movement conditions. It’s up to you ultimately if you want to use this or
Hide in Shadows- Popular healing skill. Heals for a lot and applies stealth at the cost of doubled CD time. Cures damaging conditions. Awesome if used with Trapper’s Respite to hide the trap casting.
Skelk Venom- See Venoms.
Signet of Malice: This synergizes very well with skills that deal pulsing damage such as caltrops, since each tick gives the player health back. This can allow one to even tank more than one person if fought within one’s own damage fields (caltrops, choking gas, etc.)
I expect yolo swaggins to come in here and correct and/or add things. Elites were not discussed in length.