Guild Wars 2

The whole weekend I did WvW & sPvP up until now . I find S/P Too clumsy.

I tried all kind of builds to make it work:
ACRO/ Tr/ DA or ACRO/CS/DA will all kind of skill. It still feels heavy, easy to read.

Pistol Whip needs a refreshing change, and I don’t even think Daredevil trait will save the day. I was really into this hype S/P meta hype because it would be a somehwat really new gameplay, but even with Bound it will feel be too clunky.

Does anyone agree?

Pistol Whip needs either a steadier stun or a lower initiative or a complete change or a faster casting speed. I am putting it the same category D/D #3 now.

Pistol Whip is too slow so there can be only TWO alternative to using it

- Read ahead / precast
- Shadowstep / Pistol Whip

Not to mention sometimes you get teleported ON the character, leaving you kitten ing in a lethal 1v1 against the wind.

Rarely do i ever get to pull even 6 hits on one target – 9 hits would be a mircale- and after I pull my two alternative, i am just dodge around chasing, with S/P#2, Signet, or Steal.

From Friday to Wednesday non stop S/P.

Anyways, I am done. At this point, I don’t even think Bound + Black Smoke could save the day.

Discuss.

The hype behind s/p largely comes from pulmonary impact, the alternative to pistol whip being too slow. S/p has a ridiculous amount of interrupts. So the playstyle behind the hype isnt there yet.

I would rather have a daze in PW and have it start up immediately like blurred frenzy on mesmer. That way you could combo it better with infiltrators strike or use the evasion to actually dodge reactively. The extra initiative it costs in pvp would assure that it won’t get abused too badly, but that long windup just kills the skill for me. Remove the windup and have the gun hit be part of the flurry with multiple 0.25 second dazes instead.

Use haste profit.

You can rack off 2x PW’S for your spike.

A trickery S/P Daredevil running Haste, Flanking Strikes, and Sleight of Hand could completely abuse the crap out of Pulmonary Impact once an enemy’s stab is gone. That’s where the potential for the S/P lies. Right now, S/P isn’t that good but having that really nice damage spike from Pulmonary Impact could potentially make S/P one of the best single target DPS sets to run.

S/P utilizes a bait tactic. You fake your pistolwhip and cancel it prior to the stun occuring. You bait their dodges and punish them with some AA. Stun them in key moments or when they run out of dodges. One way to make the bait easier is to jump right after using PW. This will delay the first hit slightly and sometimes you don’t even have to cancel it cause if they roll “right” you’d hit them in the window after a dodge. It’s not the optimal build out there, but far from useless. It’s not a skilless setup as some say cause once you play against more experienced players, just smashing PW won’t save you.

When combining with a shadowstep, always walk away from the target, this will put him in the stunzone after shadowstep (even if it’s just 1 step)

Bound+black powder won’t “save” S/P because S/P isn’t a stealth build. Black powder is more an area control in melee duels but I rarely use it except for finishing.

Acrobatics isn’t strong enough to support S/P anymore; the only trait really worth mentioning is Hard to Catch, and you can replace most of what you lose there with a utility skill like Infiltrator’s Signet or Roll for Initiative.

I’ve been experimenting with DA/CS/Trickery instead, and while not as good as S/P in its heyday, it’s fairly solid. You just need to make sure that you are picking the right traits to go together.

Trickery: Thrill of the Crime (need consistent Fury access), Trickster (turns Withdraw, RFI, and Dagger Storm into condi removal options), Sleight of Hand.
Critical Strikes: Invigorating Precision (gives you the sustain that Acrobatics no longer gives, and there’s no need for Hidden Killer).
Deadly Arts: Trapper’s Respite (sticks an unblockable Needle Trap on the end of your Withdraw… extraordinarily useful for duels, stacks with regular Needle Trap utility), Deadly Trapper (makes traps more deadly for you, available more often).

I like Withdraw for a heal, and Improvisation + Sundering Strikes as the floating trait options (I prefer those for my style, but they don’t have any particular synergy with the build, so alternatives are just fine).

It’s a fun build. I run it with Strength runes and sigils, since you have easy access to long-duration sources of Might.

PW has been problematic from the very beginning due to the rooting animation. However when used with DD, the mini 100-blades is not a big deal if they all didn’t connect.

I’m not implying that PW doesn’t needs improvement, rather I’m saying that the value of PW is on the daze/intrerrupt triggering PI, not on the damage from the slashes.

I certainly think that S/P could come back as meta. Yea, it may seem clumsy on its own, but it’s been meta before and not much has changed since it fell out of meta (I believe it was just an increased ini cost that killed it).

The increasing prevalence of quickness alone is a huge boost for this set since landing a full pistol whip becomes much easier with it. With the new Flanking Strikes and the buff to Haste, I don’t think it’s that far off.

One thing to remember too is that you don’t always need to land every hit of pistol whip for this set to be good. If you can keep up enough initiative to dish out more stuns than your opponent has of stun breaks/evades/stab, then it pulls ahead.

Here’s my prediction: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsalk0MhinY5qo8mgR4D6WgpLAmf+rv7B-TZBFABCcCAEvMwCHCAd2fAgnAAA

Here’s why I think this can bring S/P back: The ini gain on evade along with the extra evasion possible with the Daredevil spec bring more ini regen to offset the higher cost of pistol whip. The haste from Trickster and Haste also allow pistol whip to land more hits in. Combo this with the extra 10% damage you get after an evade and you have some solid burst.

Dahkeus, I don’t see how the DD trait line defines your build at all. I don’t think a couple of extra dodges for some more initiative so you can use more clunky pistol whips will bring s/p into the limelight.

What makes DD so appealing for s/p is impacting disruption. If gw2 skills calculator is right, thats 2k damage on every interrupt (hilt bash, headshot, pistol whip, steal, distracting daggers, bandits defence, basi venom).

^^^^^ Thats a ton of potential interrupts at 2k damage per interrupt!

So instead of maxing out pistol whip potential, you can devote your build to other things. Example: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn0MBdPhFmCOmC8PhFkiyLGCiegrBCgFY+9v/9H-TJBFABC8AAEvMgO7PAwJAAA

For a more offensive variant, swap in DA instead of SA.

Interceptor.2653:

Acrobatics isn’t strong enough to support S/P anymore; the only trait really worth mentioning is Hard to Catch, and you can replace most of what you lose there with a utility skill like Infiltrator’s Signet or Roll for Initiative.

I’ve been experimenting with DA/CS/Trickery instead, and while not as good as S/P in its heyday, it’s fairly solid. You just need to make sure that you are picking the right traits to go together.

Trickery: Thrill of the Crime (need consistent Fury access), Trickster (turns Withdraw, RFI, and Dagger Storm into condi removal options), Sleight of Hand.
Critical Strikes: Invigorating Precision (gives you the sustain that Acrobatics no longer gives, and there’s no need for Hidden Killer).
Deadly Arts: Trapper’s Respite (sticks an unblockable Needle Trap on the end of your Withdraw… extraordinarily useful for duels, stacks with regular Needle Trap utility), Deadly Trapper (makes traps more deadly for you, available more often).

I like Withdraw for a heal, and Improvisation + Sundering Strikes as the floating trait options (I prefer those for my style, but they don’t have any particular synergy with the build, so alternatives are just fine).

It’s a fun build. I run it with Strength runes and sigils, since you have easy access to long-duration sources of Might.

I would like see your build with DD Line added into it if you don’t mind.

Spurrlock.3219:

Dahkeus, I don’t see how the DD trait line defines your build at all. I don’t think a couple of extra dodges for some more initiative so you can use more clunky pistol whips will bring s/p into the limelight.

What makes DD so appealing for s/p is impacting disruption. If gw2 skills calculator is right, thats 2k damage on every interrupt (hilt bash, headshot, pistol whip, steal, distracting daggers, bandits defence, basi venom).

^^^^^ Thats a ton of potential interrupts at 2k damage per interrupt!

I agree with the whole logic behind what you said. However I think SA is a waste, but you did suggest DA. so it’s a 50-50% agreement here.
With DD line, interrupt becomes the real killer not PW.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

S/P utilizes a bait tactic. You fake your pistolwhip and cancel it prior to the stun occuring. You bait their dodges and punish them with some AA. Stun them in key moments or when they run out of dodges. One way to make the bait easier is to jump right after using PW. This will delay the first hit slightly and sometimes you don’t even have to cancel it cause if they roll “right” you’d hit them in the window after a dodge. It’s not the optimal build out there, but far from useless. It’s not a skilless setup as some say cause once you play against more experienced players, just smashing PW won’t save you.

When combining with a shadowstep, always walk away from the target, this will put him in the stunzone after shadowstep (even if it’s just 1 step)

Bound+black powder won’t “save” S/P because S/P isn’t a stealth build. Black powder is more an area control in melee duels but I rarely use it except for finishing.

It won’t save it but it’ll definitely help. Sword’s stealth attack dazes from behind so if the enemy is trying to hit you, like they will most likely do, you can get behind them and interrupt. You could also use sword 2’s return while in stealth or channel the new heal. The only thing you’ll not be doing is pistol whip.

Here is what I usually use as s/p right now and it works great. I use it mostly to evade and time during them during skills as you are the kanye west of gw2.http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gFRV;1Vw-1-6-wOFd0;9;4ILM;0147258237;4INl3L;16Rk06Rk0a0c

Use a bask until strike steal opener followed by pistol whip dodge towards them and pistol whip again, depending on what defensive cooldowns they popped you can use a third pistol whip or auto attack chain for a while then dodge to them and pistol whip them again. If u need a gap closer u still have inf sig or inf strike just pick which is better. In-between you pistol whip chains u have other dodge and ports in the form of withdraw and roll for initiative and shadow step.

IMO pistol whip has always been meta it just costs more and takes smart training setup and skill to pull off. This version of my pistol whip focuses on perma swiftness to stay mobile and on target to land auto attacks and land more pistol whips, also remember you can move during the pistol smack part of the animation to help land the stun/rupt and better position yourself to land most of the rest of the sword animation.

If anyone want to see me use it in game send me a mail and I will try to play this weekend and show it off. I will also be making a daredevil version which I think will really put pistol whip back on the map but my build for that won’t be revealed till pvp ladders and I join a team.

Spurrlock.3219:

Dahkeus, I don’t see how the DD trait line defines your build at all. I don’t think a couple of extra dodges for some more initiative so you can use more clunky pistol whips will bring s/p into the limelight.

What makes DD so appealing for s/p is impacting disruption. If gw2 skills calculator is right, thats 2k damage on every interrupt (hilt bash, headshot, pistol whip, steal, distracting daggers, bandits defence, basi venom).

^^^^^ Thats a ton of potential interrupts at 2k damage per interrupt!

So instead of maxing out pistol whip potential, you can devote your build to other things. Example: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn0MBdPhFmCOmC8PhFkiyLGCiegrBCgFY+9v/9H-TJBFABC8AAEvMgO7PAwJAAA

For a more offensive variant, swap in DA instead of SA.

Idk, I’m not sold. That’s a really initiative heavy build. As I mentioned, the main reason PW fell out of meta was because it became too ini heavy. You’ll be able to land a lot of Pulmonary Impact, sure, but I don’t think you’ll land much damage from Pistol Whip. If I were to go for an interrupt build, I’d probably just stick with dagger/pistol and utilize headshot for PI and be able to utilize the extra ini for the utility (i.e. HS stealth and Shadow Shot mobility/blind) and more reliable damage of dagger mainhand.

Kocoff.7582:

I would like see your build with DD Line added into it if you don’t mind.

I’d never use Daredevil with this build; DD doesn’t have anything synergistic with traps. With Daredevil, you’d be looking at an entirely different playstyle; probably I wouldn’t even bother with Swords at all.

Interceptor.2653:

Kocoff.7582:

I would like see your build with DD Line added into it if you don’t mind.

I’d never use Daredevil with this build; DD doesn’t have anything synergistic with traps. With Daredevil, you’d be looking at an entirely different playstyle; probably I wouldn’t even bother with Swords at all.

I am surprised you say that. I think DD will greatly enhance S/P gameplay. Granted it obvisouly want have any traps involved, but a different playstyle? I have to disagree.

Oh well. I asked .you answered. Your build is interesting tho.

I tried CS/DA/TR, without the traps. the signet pop is truly welcomed.

Dahkeus.8243:

Idk, I’m not sold. That’s a really initiative heavy build.

No more than yours. It regenerates initiative in stealth. Not sure if you caught that.

You’ll be able to land a lot of Pulmonary Impact, sure, but I don’t think you’ll land much damage from Pistol Whip.

1. There’s an additional 2k damage on pistol whip if you interrupt. I really don’t follow how I’ll be doing less.
2. Regardless this build doesn’t rely on pistol whip for damage.

I don’t think that this is the new meta or anything. It just makes s/p viable in the current meta.

Kocoff.7582:

I am surprised you say that. I think DD will greatly enhance S/P gameplay. Granted it obvisouly want have any traps involved, but a different playstyle? I have to disagree.

If you’re fishing for interrupts and not using traps — which is what you get when you drop DA for DD — it’s definitely a different playstyle. Might be OK-ish anyway, but we’re 100% theorycraft until such time as people can actually test out these new traits. DD does seem like a better version of the old Acrobatics, all things considered.

Oh well. I asked .you answered. Your build is interesting tho.

I tried CS/DA/TR, without the traps. the signet pop is truly welcomed.

You’re missing out if you don’t use traps, but agreed that the Signet pop is nice. I run Withdraw, Dagger Storm, a Trap (Tripwire or Needle), a Signet (Shadow or Infiltrator), and a Deception (any of them… they are all good). There’s a really good chance that Improvisation resets something useful there.

Worth noting: if Improvisation resets Traps, it also resets the Trapper’s Respite trait. That’s not worth much if you are using HiS, but it’s handy if you run Withdraw or Signet of Malice, since their cooldown is shorter than the trait’s.

Spurrlock.3219:

Dahkeus.8243:

Idk, I’m not sold. That’s a really initiative heavy build.

No more than yours. It regenerates initiative in stealth. Not sure if you caught that.

You’ll be able to land a lot of Pulmonary Impact, sure, but I don’t think you’ll land much damage from Pistol Whip.

1. There’s an additional 2k damage on pistol whip if you interrupt. I really don’t follow how I’ll be doing less.
2. Regardless this build doesn’t rely on pistol whip for damage.

I don’t think that this is the new meta or anything. It just makes s/p viable in the current meta.

Yea, if you burn 6 initiative and a dodge, then you regain a small amount of that back…that’s not really initiative management.

Your build is also really vulnerable to conditions. You’re simply not going to be able to stealth enough with S/P to justify the stealth benefits from SA.

And if you’re not using PW for damage, then there’s really no reason to pick sword over dagger. Head shot is a much more efficient CC. It’s instant and costs 2 initiative less.

The only reason to go S/P over D/P or S/D is for pistol whip, so if you’re not focusing on that, you might as well just use a different weapon set.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

S/P utilizes a bait tactic. You fake your pistolwhip and cancel it prior to the stun occuring. You bait their dodges and punish them with some AA. Stun them in key moments or when they run out of dodges. One way to make the bait easier is to jump right after using PW. This will delay the first hit slightly and sometimes you don’t even have to cancel it cause if they roll “right” you’d hit them in the window after a dodge. It’s not the optimal build out there, but far from useless. It’s not a skilless setup as some say cause once you play against more experienced players, just smashing PW won’t save you.

When combining with a shadowstep, always walk away from the target, this will put him in the stunzone after shadowstep (even if it’s just 1 step)

Bound+black powder won’t “save” S/P because S/P isn’t a stealth build. Black powder is more an area control in melee duels but I rarely use it except for finishing.

It won’t save it but it’ll definitely help. Sword’s stealth attack dazes from behind so if the enemy is trying to hit you, like they will most likely do, you can get behind them and interrupt. You could also use sword 2’s return while in stealth or channel the new heal. The only thing you’ll not be doing is pistol whip.

Oh it’ll definitely help. But OP seemed to think that S/P was useless and that even bound/blackpowder won’t save it. I was pointing out that S/P was (won’t be anymore) a low stealth build. You didn’t build for stealthing a lot. And I think a good S/P build post-expansion will still hold up these principles because it’s way of playing differs greatly from S/D or D/P.

Personally I’m still not sure which dodge I’ll be taking with my S/P. I can think of ways to use all 3 of them competitively.