Guild Wars 2

Hello,

first of all I’d like to tell you that I’m not a pro, not even a little better than average (though I hope to be). Many threads that go along the lines of ‘teefz are OP’ or ‘teefz suck’ bring up the question of the poster’s skill level. So now you know from whom this is coming. (On the leaderboards it says 59% next to my name so I’m average or a little below that.) With this being said – I’m struggling with a dilemma:

Is it worth it to put effort in learning how to PvP with a thief? With PvE I’m totally satisfied, and accept the strenghts and weaknesses of the class, and it keeps me motivated as I see a lot of room for improvement. So if I work on being better, the results will come accordingly. The reason why I’m hesitating about PvP is – ingoring the lot of BS thats going on pro-thief and anti-thief – that it seems there is a huge jump in the reguired skill level as you progress with a thief. As far as I could understand knowledgeable players (who are humble enough to collect proper experiences before forming their opinion) all say that for a while theif will make you feel good. As it is easy to gain a huge advantage from stealth against noobs. But as you move up in the ranks, and you get to fight more and more players who know thief mechanics, you gonna be destoryed. And this point is the above mentioned ‘wall of bricks’ that takes a kitten lot of work to break through. So much that maybe only hardcore players have a chance (and time and dedication and…) to do that. And any average Joe will be stuck in their progression once they reach said wall. I dont have a crapload of time to play this game so I’m trying to choose wisely what to invest my time in.

So all in all: Does this wall really exist? And how hard is it to break through?

Ty

I have not hit that wall yet but rule of thumb: firsthand experience is never a waste to get.

I say go for it.

Well, first of all, you can’t “move up in the ranks”, the matchmaking, while it takes into account rank, does not take into account anything else, the matches you get vary wildly, and you end up at rank 70 still playing against brand new players.

That being said, such a gimmicky class like Thief in GW2 was bound to have this happen to it: extremely dreadful to new players that do not know the ins and outs of the class, thus completely destroying by them, but completely useless at higher levels.

It happens in the best of the multiplayer games, the best of the tactics and strategies and the best of the classes.

Do you ever see anyone doing a 6 pool or a cannon rush on diamond level Starcraft 2 games? no because it just doesn’t work anymore. Do you see people playing Axe in high level competitive matches in Dota 2? no, because while Axe is a very solid hero on lower levels, and even if you like him a lot and play him exclusively, there will always be better choices at higher levels, the hero will always unavoidably fall behind, because it’s just a gimmick, it’s not meant to be viable at high level competitive games.

And this extends not only to videogames, many chess strategies are just useless against veteran players, etc…

This “wall” you talk about is nothing more than hitting the maximum attainable with a thief in PvP.

Pie Flavor.1647:

This “wall” you talk about is nothing more than hitting the maximum attainable with a thief in PvP.

Pls dont take it personally as I dont mean to attack you in any way, but this just cant be true. If it was, we would not see guys like Dustin, Caed or Sizer ranked so high. They hardly could make it to the top 200. But there are quite a lot of thieves in the lets say top 200-300 players. My question was not about whether it is possible to get up there with a thief, it was about the diffculty of getting there. It has always have hurt my dignity to choose the easier way and go with a warrior, somehow the greater challange (that you can do the same or even more than a warr with half the HP in both PvE and PvP) made me feel ‘special’. (lol, this sounds nerdy) But maybe this time I’ve put myself to a too hard challange.

Anyways, ty for the input.

Yes, it is worth it.
At first you will only be able to kill PvErs who wear zerker gear with odd builds. As you get better, you will understand a lot of tricks and strategies which can turn useful when you are fighting a certain class.

Regardless of the class/spec you are playing, the most important thing to know when you are fighting someone is “What to expect from your opponent”. It’s all based upon your general knowledge of the game.
Personally, I think that most thieves’ specs are able to win against any opponent if played right (maybe the only exception is PU condi mesmer, but they are not so common in sPvP). But you have to play differently against each class.
If you see a ranger with spirits, you must expect lots of bleeds, protection, burning. Your shortbow and your stolen skill help a lot, by using cluster bomb on the waterfield you can easily dispatch the spirits, do a lot of damage to the ranger and keep your HP up.
Or, for example, a necro. Necros have a lot of conditions and can fear you a lot of times, so you must be ready to use your stunbreaks.

Anyway, I suggest you go spectate to the most crowded 1v1 server of your zone (Angz in EU, don’t know about NA anymore). There you will find a lot of thieves usually, so try to follow them and see what they do.

:/ TBH it seems like philosophical problem than a game/class one.

I had a teacher once, that actually got me to want to go into the field I’m in. She said, for everyone in the class in general, that for some of you there will be a giant brick wall that you won’t be able to overcome… if you can foresee the wall, save yourselves the trouble and switch paths. Nonetheless I persisted with my interest but having this constant fear of seeing that wall she had mentioned. Through my experiences, I’ve learned that nothing is perfect… And some things solely exist because things aren’t perfect, and take advantage of it. I started to believe that even though that wall might exist and I might encounter it, it’s far from perfect… and I will find it’s imperfection and take advantage of it to overcome it. Although I shed that fear and belief that a brick wall will stop me, I kind of understood why she said that to us… to lose the “weak”, if anything a favor for them so that they switch into something they are more persistent at. :/ In the unfortunate event that I can’t overcome that wall, I’m prepared to “die” by it after bashing my head to death on it in the last hope of breaking it. Though… doubt that can happen, as I will just leave it (yes you can do that… magic…) for the time being, go somewhere else, then come back with new experience and keep trying. In a weird way you can also think of this way, given enough time and experience you should be able to overcome everything… unfortunately, we’re limited by the time we have (and so may choose to stop persisting, and spend time somewhere else).

The distance between you and the wall, varies from person to person, as it’s a skill thing… I can’t foresee your wall for you, no one on these forums can. Either way… It does and it doesn’t exist.

Plus what yolo said…

Now a bit more technical… game related…

“PvP” I define as general, player v player… not a certain mode. “Is it worth it to put effort in learning how to PvP with a thief?”… Well with my definition it becomes more like “Is it worth it to put effort in learning how to PvP?”, and with what you’re doing it with simply makes it more enjoyable for you. So if you enjoy playing a thief and want to better yourself in PvP, sure… You can’t get worse. Actually if you master the class a little bit, it will help you even further in learning general PvP’ing as you wont have to worry about nuisances of the class as you will be comfortable with it (hope that makes sense…). Obviously at a certain point you might want to learn other classes, and that will obivously also increase your PvP’ing skill.

sPvP/tPvP… I think the only real problem with the thief is the ability to hold/cap points. Though you might be able to overcome that if you come up with something (using general PvP skill).

WvW… Aside from roaming and dueling, you’re not made for zerging or grouping. Again, if you’re comfortable with the class and enjoy it, it’s not going to matter, and you will find ways around it.

In the end, have fun, it’s a game after all… Plus you said it yourself, you don’t have a crapload of time, so enjoy it rather than trying to become an “MLG” player (o.O is there even MLG for GW2?).

Thanks Zero, you pretty much summed it up. Truth is I’m insanely in love with thief and ranger. (Played hunter and rogue for 6 years in WoW.) I just love stealth and the quick playstyle of the thief. As for the ranger… BOWS! Bows are my thing! But it was a heartbreaking experience with my ranger in PvE to find out how hard rangers suck. (Yep, I know… 1H sword and Moa and stuff, but I wanted to pew-pew like in WoW.) It takes a lot of work and a lot better gear just to be on par with dominant PvE classes, and after a while its just impossible to keep up no matter how skilled you are.

This was my experience with my ranger. And this is what I dont want to see again on my thief. Especially that PvP is 10times more complex and skill-based therefore invested effort based – which all can go waste if I dont choose my path of progression wisely.

But this is the point where I should stop unless I want to end up QQing here.

Pie Flavor.1647:

Do you ever see anyone doing a 6 pool or a cannon rush on diamond level Starcraft 2 games? no because it just doesn’t work anymore.

I’m just going to refer to Gaulzi, a NA Ladder grandmaster who cannonrushes in every single game he plays, as he is not 1, but 2 ladders above diamond I’d say it obviously works.

Lue.6538:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Do you ever see anyone doing a 6 pool or a cannon rush on diamond level Starcraft 2 games? no because it just doesn’t work anymore.

I’m just going to refer to Gaulzi, a NA Ladder grandmaster who cannonrushes in every single game he plays, as he is not 1, but 2 ladders above diamond I’d say it obviously works.

:D personally, with two other friends, we’ve managed to get to platinum (placement matches) in 3v3 solely by zerg rushing… man that was a fun day… so much hate, so much raging from the opponents… the tears… were delicious… -.-’ and then we couldn’t play 3v3 because all we knew was zerg rushing lol

Zero Day.2594:

:D personally, with two other friends, we’ve managed to get to platinum (placement matches) in 3v3 solely by zerg rushing… man that was a fun day… so much hate, so much raging from the opponents… the tears… were delicious… -.-’ and then we couldn’t play 3v3 because all we knew was zerg rushing lol

I was mostly trying to illustrate that his concept of a certain kind of cheese not being viable on higher leagues is wrong.. and I’d say you know precisely how to play 3v3, you’ll never win a game of attrition as tripple zerg; which is why everyone in 3v3 plays 6-9pool into mass-mutas/banelings or roach/hydra for a fast finish.

Keep playing thief. The learning curve is high, but once you understand the class there is literally nothing you can’t do. I mean nothing. It is one of the more difficult classes in the game, but once understood, it can 1v1, 1vX, small group roam, solo towers, solo keeps, even Zerg, contrary to what many say. I command on my thief and I am ALWAYS the last one to die. You can spec thief for anything, it just takes knowledge of how the class works.
For example, I have a perma regen tank build on my thief that out tanks regen warriors. How many people imagine a thief doing that? Not many, but if you know the class and game well enough, the possibilities are endless.
Now something to keep in mind. I have played thief and only thief since Beta. So I learned the game with everyone else, there wasn’t really anyone to turn to for help, and, IMO, this helped me learn the game even better. Also, it means I have tons of experience, so mastering thief does take some time.