The Counterplay to Stealth

The Counterplay to Stealth

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Posted by: Craig.2403

Craig.2403

So, as people have evolved from the old “stealth is op” to the new “stealth is op because there is no counter play” I began to have hope. Hope that people would listen to logic now that they had a legitimate reason. But, given the number of times this keeps coming up, I decided to make a thread showing that stealth DOES have counter play, and maybe… just maybe, convincing more people that thieves are, if anything, in need of a buff (yea, I know, it won’t happen, but whatever, worth the try at least). Ok, so here goes.

The main thing people say about stealth showing that it has no counterplay is that “once they are in stealth, there is no way to make the thief revealed but to get hit,” aka, there is no skill or trait that makes stealthed thieves visible. However, people miss a key word in here that is hiding all the counterplay behind stealth: ONCE. WHAAAAT!?!?!?!?!? How does that work? Well, it’s quite simple: thieves have only 1 uninterruptible stealth move: blinding powder, that is an instant cast. However, it is 3 seconds of stealth on a 40 second cooldown… thus it is balanced. There are many other ways to stealth, like smoke field->leap/blast finisher, shadow refuge, hide in shadows, and cloak and dagger. Every one of these skills is interruptible (even shadow refuge, which also has the obvious counterplay to that few people complain about). This is where the word “once” comes in. People always complain about ONCE the thief is in stealth, forgetting all together that they allowed the thief to get into stealth in the first place.
So, before people complain about you not having enough interrupts to keep a thief out of stealth every time he tries to, take in mind that attempting to stealth takes a lot of initiative. Interrupting one stealth may not kill the thief (unless he’s complete glass), but it will give you a huge advantage in the fight and put the thief on the defensive, allowing you to gain your bearings and prepare for a long fight, or, if you’re glass yourself, capitalize on the opportunity and quickly dispatch the thief.
So, what happens when a thief does get into stealth? So maybe he is good and managed to recover before you finished him, and has his stealth up before your interrupt is back up, what happens now? Do you sit there and let him hit you? NO! There are a few things to watch for: first, has he used steal yet? If not, he will most likely position himself behind you then port and backstab. If he has, try to remember if he is using infiltrator’s signet, and if so, pan behind you and watch for the signet (that appears while he’s in stealth I might add) pop up above his head, and dodge as soon as you see it. Finally, if he’s d/p, pay attention to if you get hit by a light attack, as it may be the pistol 3 port that a good thief can use backstab with. All of these things create some counterplay to the thief who is actually in stealth. While this is all small and very detailed (something you might have picked up if you, say, played the thief for a bit… hmm, that sounds familiar) counterplay, coupled with the counterplay to stealth BEFORE stealth happens, I think most people would agree that stealth has plenty of viable counterplay.
Ok, so I wanted to convince you that thieves need a buff…why? Ever notice how many thieves play d/p backstab? Now, I know you think that it’s because it’s op and everyone obviously only wants to play an op build… but that’s not it. d/p is the only perfectly balanced weapon set on the thief, aka, it’s the only one that you need to use every skill on the set to reach your full potential. What thieves need is for every weaponset to have that “completeness,” such that every skill is useful in some way. How to do that is a very long story that is not for this topic, but it is something that does need to be addressed eventually.
tl;dr the counterplay to stealth happens mostly BEFORE the thief goes into stealth, not after. Also, thieves need more “complete” weaponsets to give them more variety in the types of builds that they can use.

Bummkin – ranger | Netherdark – thief | Crescor – mesmer | Gears Up – engi
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The Counterplay to Stealth

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Posted by: Master of Timespace.2548

Master of Timespace.2548

Now, I know you think that it’s because it’s op and everyone obviously only wants to play an op build… but that’s not it.

lol. You know, I play thief too so you can cut off this bs about d/p not being op. Perhaps not in tpvp, but thats quite differend place that.

? <(^-^><)>^-^)> <(^-^)> ?

(edited by Master of Timespace.2548)

The Counterplay to Stealth

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Posted by: Fiorrello.8126

Fiorrello.8126

well heck, the 4 second stun on the warriors mace isn’t over powered at all by that logic. after all its a short ranged telegraphed weapon skill that does nothing unless you get hit by it or have stability. you can even end the stun early by using stunbreakers.

one of the main reasons people are upset about stealth is because of the many ways thieves have to get stealth. its not an enjoyable mechanic for the person on the opposite end when most of the fight is carried out swinging where you think the thief may be.

some people say that if the thief stealths away from the fight then you should just be happy because you won. i say that that isn’t true, a lot of enjoyment from a fight comes from finishing the fight. that moment of victory when you know that you have won.
also consider if it would be alright if in WvW you no longer got loot and experience from player kills because often you get no loot or experience for getting “victories” over good thieves.

right now the thief is kind of just a troll class, i would hardily agree that the thief could use some substantial buffs in a lot of key areas and quite a few strait up changes. i think the biggest change and buff that would help the thief class as a whole would be the removal of stealth, or at the very least make it a lot harder to come by. as it stands any change to the class for the better, any real quality of life change has to be tempered against the possibility of substantial stealth abuse. as a result all other builds suffer for it.

The Counterplay to Stealth

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

This is why stealth is OP.

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