Guild Wars 2

Can someone explain to me why this supposed “perma” stealth is op? I play every thief spec. And being able to stealth a lot has really only bonus: annoyance. The spec is laughable for zergs, it’s inefficient for tpvp/spvp(node capping lol), and doesn’t have a whole lot of evasion(talking typical 0/30/30/10 build). There ARE counters to this “perma” stealth. It’s not hard to disrupt this stealth spamming: stand in the powder so they hit you with heart seeker, interrupt them, knock them out, fear them out,etc. Stealth is about the only defense this spec has. No stability, no ridiculous evasion spam, little to none condition clearing(Shadow’s embrace looking like it will being ineffective with short duration stealth). When a thief sits in stealth, they aren’t killing anything. Its only good at small scale roaming. And even then it is outclassed by other professions.

It all boils down to one thing to me: people are just annoyed by it. A dodging player who knows how to keep his back away from you sure as hell already makes it a pain to get a good backstab in with only 4-5 seconds to position behind someone’s back(Excluding you do a steal/shadowstep backstab, in which case time is not of an essence).

So does all it take is a whining population to nerf something that’s marginally annoying? Play a level 80 thief for a day or two. You’ll realize how ineffective you can make other thieves vs you in the short windows they have to get at your back in stealth.

I laugh at this idea that s/d evasion spam is somehow more talented/honorable. Spamming my dodge key is a lot easier than stealth spam. And on top of that, the stealth spam with s/d is still really easy. An on command shadow return on top of that. I realize s/d is getting nerfed, but it is not getting a ground breaking nerf like d/p.

After all is said and done, people will kitten about all the d/d thieves running around and still staying in stealth. But somehow, d/p stealth is this shunned idea. I can’t find a good argument anywhere for it. Sound like a bunch of women not using logic. In fact, it’s a little easier to stay in stealth(d/d) with pve mobs and groups of players with their pets/illusions.

The only way to sustain very long durations with JUST heartseeker/black powder combo is to pan your camera and get 4 heart seekers off(not easy to do continuously). If you can’t stop a thief doing that while he can’t even see you coming because of your over-head camera angle, you really are bad.

If you really are obsessed with stopping stealth duration with that trait, try a small change first. 2 initiative when entering stealth, 1 initiative returned while already in stealth.

Let the flaming begin by a bunch of fanboy s/d elitists(a far more effective and unbalanced build when played correctly) and people who don’t have a clue about countering stealth.

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

Fanboy s/d elitist here. Permastealth is a silly gimmick and no good thief should rely on it to win fights. Regardless if you can counter it or not, it shouldn’t even be in the game. If getting rid of this gimmick breaks the thief class, and it won’t, then the devs will make changes in the future to fix that. If you have a lot of fun using this gimmick, well you still have a month :P

Frenk.5917:

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

Most of those fights were against VERY inexperienced pvpers. None of those players used any strategy to stop you from using stealth.

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

Frenk.5917:

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

Most of those fights were against VERY inexperienced pvpers. None of those players used any strategy to stop you from using stealth.

Yes, you are right. Nevertheless even against expert duelers I can’t fail to run away and permastealth. I can always use shadowstep, or infiltrator’s signet, or steal, or even withdraw, to open a wide gap from my opponent and then vanish into stealth, forever. Standing in my blinding powder won’t help. I use the combo only when I have at least 9 ini, by the time I have done the combo 1 time and stealth disappear I still have enough ini to start another black powder combo, but this time I’ll just be in a random and unpredictable position (since I was already stealthed).

Is this not achievable by heart seeking twice and running away? I fail to see the difference. And yes you can get some good duration stealths by waiting for the right init amount before chaining them. But its certainly not permanent by JUST heartseeker and powder. You can only chain 2 sets of 3 heartseekers and powder(unless you run quick recovery). All I see still is complaining about annoyance. I see nothing imbalanced. Saying its a gimick and never intended and should not be in the game…..the games been out over a year. Clearly, it was intended. Furthermore, that’s an opinion. Thief has been chipped away like the carcass of a dead animal because of these “shouldnt be there” arguments that have no real logic behind the nerf. Where does it stop? Mark my words, when d/d is the popular way to chain stealth effectively, people are gonna kitten and whine and that will be gone. Zomg hes running around in stealth not hurting me, i better stand around and wait for his cooldowns to return and stay in a vulnerable position instead of moving away from the thief so he can’t get a backstab.

I think I’m very far from being a good Thief but i played for the most of time D/P build. I dont like spam combo for stealth but i think, as Quietus, is only annoying, A good player know what to do, i saw few player run in the field during the combo, but a lot use immobilize, stun, fear, chill etc etc etc.

But seems they prefer (and anet too) to be owned by a full glass cannon build that do a 20k damage in 5 seconds that see a thief pop every time in stealth.

I played d/d and d/p for a total of 1 week before getting bored out of my mind.
The majority of wvw players are lacking in skill/running to a zerg/specced to spam 1 over and over. I am a decent player/thief. Not an expert at all, D/P is outrageous because of the average level of players, and I was very rarely challenged. Didn’t win all the time, but I died once an hour at most.

People who defend D/P are the ones who hate to lose. Who rage when they get downed. Cry about stacks and lag. The people in denial that abusing a mechanic wasn’t actually skill based…

The vigor Nerf worries me as a P/D, but I’ll adapt and survive. So will the people who have any tiny bit of skill. I expect to see a large drop in thief population for the first few weeks.

In b4 someone claims I have no thief

The same kitten reason they nerf CnD+Mug+BS combo. Noobs can’t counter it.

The same kitten reason they buff the hell out of Warriors. So it is noob friendly.

Omnitek.3876:

The majority of wvw players are lacking in skill/running to a zerg/specced to spam 1 over and over. I am a decent player/thief. Not an expert at all, D/P is outrageous because of the average level of players, and I was very rarely challenged. Didn’t win all the time, but I died once an hour at most.

People who defend D/P are the ones who hate to lose. Who rage when they get downed. Cry about stacks and lag. The people in denial that abusing a mechanic wasn’t actually skill based…

So because some zerg player can’t put up a fight that means its an OP spec? If you’re any specced class who has an idea of what to do, you’ll beat 85% of roaming players just looking to link up with the zerg.

And I don’t rage or cry. It takes very little skill to deny a thief perma stealthing.

A big part of the thief class is….wait for it….STEALTH. It’s a huge defensive mechanic and one of very few options available to thieves. Just because people refuse how to counter it isn’t a good reason to nerf it.

Edited out my last name calling rant. I’m lobbying against way too many people for my voice to be heard. Oh well.

Yeah everyone else, including anet just needs to l2p, lol

i am honestly not worried about stealth nerf… w/e, never abused it despite playing d/p

i am more worried about initiative regen and vigor nerf…

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

Frenk.5917:

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

Most of those fights were against VERY inexperienced pvpers. None of those players used any strategy to stop you from using stealth.

how do you block a leap finish tho?

It’s not OP, but it is broken.

You shouldn’t have the ability to stay in stealth for the majority of the fight. Why is that considered skill? The post above by Frenk pretty much covers anything. I have an alt 80 thief, and I used to play D/P. It’s so easy to just #5>#2 move around a bit #5>#2 …etc etc.

While doing this you’re prohibiting your opponent any chance of counter play. Mesmers can’t possibly target to summon a phantasm, ranger pets are useless, melee classes are just flailing their weapons and rolling around, ele/necro is spamming aoe. The most they know is that you’re still around, since they can see the black powders, (that obviously they should be able to run into right as you’re putting them down). I always put my black powder right next to my opponent when I’m stealthing. (sarcasm)

The thief should have stealth, that is correct. Thieves should not be allowed to stay in stealth with such ease, there has to be some kind of effort involved. D/D thiefs, for example, have to run up to something to stealth. That in itself regulates some kind of counter, as a smart player will use that to his/her advantage. Dueling D/P thieves in wvw is literally a joke, and I just ignore them. I’m not wasting my time with someone who depends on a cheap mechanic.

And lastly, the ‘nerfs’ that are going to happen, just get over it. Adapt, get better as a player. Maybe you’ll realize you weren’t as great of a thief as you thought when you can’t stealth at every whim.

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

Can someone explain to me why this supposed “perma” stealth is op? I play every thief spec. And being able to stealth a lot has really only bonus: annoyance. The spec is laughable for zergs, it’s inefficient for tpvp/spvp(node capping lol), and doesn’t have a whole lot of evasion(talking typical 0/30/30/10 build). There ARE counters to this “perma” stealth. It’s not hard to disrupt this stealth spamming: stand in the powder so they hit you with heart seeker, interrupt them, knock them out, fear them out,etc. Stealth is about the only defense this spec has. No stability, no ridiculous evasion spam, little to none condition clearing(Shadow’s embrace looking like it will being ineffective with short duration stealth). When a thief sits in stealth, they aren’t killing anything. Its only good at small scale roaming. And even then it is outclassed by other professions.

It all boils down to one thing to me: people are just annoyed by it. A dodging player who knows how to keep his back away from you sure as hell already makes it a pain to get a good backstab in with only 4-5 seconds to position behind someone’s back(Excluding you do a steal/shadowstep backstab, in which case time is not of an essence).

So does all it take is a whining population to nerf something that’s marginally annoying? Play a level 80 thief for a day or two. You’ll realize how ineffective you can make other thieves vs you in the short windows they have to get at your back in stealth.

I laugh at this idea that s/d evasion spam is somehow more talented/honorable. Spamming my dodge key is a lot easier than stealth spam. And on top of that, the stealth spam with s/d is still really easy. An on command shadow return on top of that. I realize s/d is getting nerfed, but it is not getting a ground breaking nerf like d/p.

After all is said and done, people will kitten about all the d/d thieves running around and still staying in stealth. But somehow, d/p stealth is this shunned idea. I can’t find a good argument anywhere for it. Sound like a bunch of women not using logic. In fact, it’s a little easier to stay in stealth(d/d) with pve mobs and groups of players with their pets/illusions.

The only way to sustain very long durations with JUST heartseeker/black powder combo is to pan your camera and get 4 heart seekers off(not easy to do continuously). If you can’t stop a thief doing that while he can’t even see you coming because of your over-head camera angle, you really are bad.

If you really are obsessed with stopping stealth duration with that trait, try a small change first. 2 initiative when entering stealth, 1 initiative returned while already in stealth.

Let the flaming begin by a bunch of fanboy s/d elitists(a far more effective and unbalanced build when played correctly) and people who don’t have a clue about countering stealth.

Well then take D/D with same 0/30/30/10 and stop crying about D/P nerf u big kitten. But you wont cause you cant pull of same stunts with d/d as with d/p now can you. Maintaining stealth with CnD vs good players will lead to your death. Maintaining it with Bp+Hs combo will not. And stop the “stand in BP” to stop d/p from maintaining stealth bullkitten excuse. By doing that you will only get blinded (blinds no longer gets cleaned auto attacking air if u arent aware of that), get damaged by a hs, and if u are squishy that might actually hurt. So what that u will reveal him or even manage to cc him afer (wich is unlikelly since u kitten ed around inside bp and u are blind)? D/P Can just withdraw away (couse withdraw is actually d/p friendly and d/d usually cant afford using it) and keep doing his thing while spiting blinds left and right.
Oh and little to none condition cleanse with D/P and Shadows embrace ? D/P+ SA is pretty much best condi removal + in stealth healing thief can get.

D/P is the most abused Spec a thief has in WvW.
Get below 50% health BP+HS away to heal up and reset the fight.

Takes almost no skill since you can literally pick and choose who you fight and when to fight.

at least with D/D you had to CnD of something to re-stealth. with D/P you can stay in stealth almost 100% of the time without having to be in melee range.

come on guys, every good thief knew this kitten was broken as hell.
I really like what anet is doing.

I only hope valor doesn’t get too much hurt!

WhiteRose.6934:

And lastly, the ‘nerfs’ that are going to happen, just get over it. Adapt, get better as a player. Maybe you’ll realize you weren’t as great of a thief as you thought when you can’t stealth at every whim.

“I am extremely skilled. I used to beat everyone, now I can’t beat anyone. If this class isn’t broken how am I losing to noobs? Did I get worse!?!” – Rogue

“No, you were never any good” – Mute

Seriously. After the announcement of the December patch, the thief forums have reminded me of vanilla wow when rogues got balance changes and required more than 2 buttons to kill anyone. The forums were flooded with players saying that rogues were now the worst class. There were 100s of threads with 100s of circlejerking replies all QQing about the same thing. It’s not THAT bad here but I’m seeing multiple threads all with the same topics with plenty of angry replies saying the same thing. I saw some quality topics in the thief forum but they quickly went to page 3 after the patch announcement.

Yes, the Sword #2 and vigor nerfs will hurt. However, I will adapt. Nothing is going to stop me from playing my thief the way I want. It’s not like thieves are the only profession that’s getting nerfed. The warrior nerf on their mace burst is going to help me a ton in pvp.

I’m somewhat conflicted with the d/p change since it mainly appears to target WvW, which by it’s nature is all about fighting unfairly 95% of the time. On the other hand though, since the team may finally be sort of considering WvW in their balancing decisions maybe they’ll target some other issues down the road, like the ridiculous mobility cheese warriors can pump out, toning down perplexity runes with a cooldown on #6, making rangers not a laughing stock and a free kill, etc.

I dont understand why they wouldnt take a middle ground step first. Make it so abilities that grant stealthed while in stealth grant 1 initiative. You go from 1 extreme to the other with this nerf.

Doesn’t bear discussing if it was OP or not.
D/P permastealth was clearly at odds with the way stealth was designed in this game, it was an abuse of poor playtesting, and I’ve said as much in the past. Be happy its fixed.

Nobody should be able to roam solo, come face to face with a group, fight them head on, maybe kill one of them, then just go his merry way unscathed.

There have been a lot of stealthy classes in MMO’s but none that had the ability to stealth for so long and so often. This nerf was bound to happen.

What if they removed HS from being a leap finisher? Would the d/p still whine about it? Would it be worse? I think so.

DanielGames.5198:

WhiteRose.6934:

And lastly, the ‘nerfs’ that are going to happen, just get over it. Adapt, get better as a player. Maybe you’ll realize you weren’t as great of a thief as you thought when you can’t stealth at every whim.

“I am extremely skilled. I used to beat everyone, now I can’t beat anyone. If this class isn’t broken how am I losing to noobs? Did I get worse!?!” – Rogue

“No, you were never any good” – Mute

Seriously. After the announcement of the December patch, the thief forums have reminded me of vanilla wow when rogues got balance changes and required more than 2 buttons to kill anyone. The forums were flooded with players saying that rogues were now the worst class. There were 100s of threads with 100s of circlejerking replies all QQing about the same thing. It’s not THAT bad here but I’m seeing multiple threads all with the same topics with plenty of angry replies saying the same thing. I saw some quality topics in the thief forum but they quickly went to page 3 after the patch announcement.

Yes, the Sword #2 and vigor nerfs will hurt. However, I will adapt. Nothing is going to stop me from playing my thief the way I want. It’s not like thieves are the only profession that’s getting nerfed. The warrior nerf on their mace burst is going to help me a ton in pvp.

Part of being a good player is knowing what is powerful and what is not. The same reason you max and min stats to get the best out of the class. If a certain spec allows you to take 1vX, then exploit and ride it out for as long as you can.

The people that never used it are either too stubborn or didn’t know how strong D/P is/was.

The camera exploit let thieves stay in stealth for a very long time, if they felt like doing it. I personally found it to be pretty lame and not very fun to use. Sure I still used it in wvwvw, but as mentioned, I got bored and bored of stealth in general and started using stealthless Sword instead, which to me personally is way more fun.

I wonder if anet actually know how thieves are doing that tedious exploit, or if they just don’t know how to fix it and are improvising. Without the exploit though it does take a pretty massive amount of ini just to stealth once with D/P.

When I actually face them on my S/D Thief the battle can generally go either way. He can actually manage to land his backstab perfectly and eventually land a heartseeker to kill me, or he meets the sad fate of running into my sword whether in stealth or not. I’ve actually killed a lot of D/P Thieves in WvWvW with literally 1-2 sword auto attacks because of how squishy they are, and the fact that I can daze instantly with steal or shadowstep away and back from their attacks and usually get them first. Other classes can do the same thing probably better since I only get 1 daze and no KDs, Stuns, Knockdowns, etc, as long as they don’t stand in the black powder like a… you know what.

roamzero.9486:

I’m somewhat conflicted with the d/p change since it mainly appears to target WvW, which by it’s nature is all about fighting unfairly 95% of the time. On the other hand though, since the team may finally be sort of considering WvW in their balancing decisions maybe they’ll target some other issues down the road, like the ridiculous mobility cheese warriors can pump out, toning down perplexity runes with a cooldown on #6, making rangers not a laughing stock and a free kill, etc.

This better sums up my mentality. To the person that said a thief can kill someone in a group and go on their marry way: you must roam in some pretty bad groups. The thief may be able to get away, however warriors can do that better, but the thief certainly cant kill anyone. The level 2 up leveled guy maybe.

To the random kitten say play D/D and see how hard it is to stay in stealth: its not(unless youre of course fighting another thief 1v1…but how often is anything 1v1 in wvw).

Doggie.3184:

The camera exploit let thieves stay in stealth for a very long time, if they felt like doing it. I personally found it to be pretty lame and not very fun to use. Sure I still used it in wvwvw, but as mentioned, I got bored and bored of stealth in general and started using stealthless Sword instead, which to me personally is way more fun.

Yeah too bad no mechanic for sword lasts more than month without it getting nerfed to kitten. And apparently that ‘acrobatic fighting’ style is next on the list.

@Aesthetic
you can perma stealth in a keep/tower and rez a mesmer or 3 others or just take it back… After a proper sweep. That is OP.

from wvw aspect i agree to the fact d/p perma stealth needed a nerf. but the cause of the nerf is from all the d/p perma annoying stealth who dont know how to play.

nevertheless the reason is bit unclear to me beside the only fact that thieves could restart the fight with full health and initiative points but doing to low sdps against any decent player so leaving it only to annoying ppl.

sure the perma stealth in keep/tower is just an abuse!

any other class have the ability to restart the fight
signet warrior can run back fast with sword, GS etc gain full health and restart
ele can do so with d/d spec with massive healing skills and fast rotations
engineer also with rifle or boots and stealth bomb combo
necro with double health pool from DS
mesmer with clones and stealth
ranger…. maybe not or just almost perma swiftness

so the only reason has left it was annoying to play against. but as i also play mesmer and necro i can say its really easy to take down d/p. so rarely i had any problem with them. sure they were hard to kill as the tend to run away when their hp went below 50%

Sifu.6527:

DanielGames.5198:

WhiteRose.6934:

And lastly, the ‘nerfs’ that are going to happen, just get over it. Adapt, get better as a player. Maybe you’ll realize you weren’t as great of a thief as you thought when you can’t stealth at every whim.

“I am extremely skilled. I used to beat everyone, now I can’t beat anyone. If this class isn’t broken how am I losing to noobs? Did I get worse!?!” – Rogue

“No, you were never any good” – Mute

Seriously. After the announcement of the December patch, the thief forums have reminded me of vanilla wow when rogues got balance changes and required more than 2 buttons to kill anyone. The forums were flooded with players saying that rogues were now the worst class. There were 100s of threads with 100s of circlejerking replies all QQing about the same thing. It’s not THAT bad here but I’m seeing multiple threads all with the same topics with plenty of angry replies saying the same thing. I saw some quality topics in the thief forum but they quickly went to page 3 after the patch announcement.

Yes, the Sword #2 and vigor nerfs will hurt. However, I will adapt. Nothing is going to stop me from playing my thief the way I want. It’s not like thieves are the only profession that’s getting nerfed. The warrior nerf on their mace burst is going to help me a ton in pvp.

Part of being a good player is knowing what is powerful and what is not. The same reason you max and min stats to get the best out of the class. If a certain spec allows you to take 1vX, then exploit and ride it out for as long as you can.

The people that never used it are either too stubborn or didn’t know how strong D/P is/was.

And now it’s going to be gone in a month and we’ll see how all these ‘good players’ are going to react :P

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

You can only chain 2 sets of 3 heartseekers and powder(unless you run quick recovery).

THAT’S precisely the point. I run both quick recovery and infiltrator’s signet. I can achieve permastealth where I want, for a limitless amount of times. I am basically immortal. That’s why it needed to be reworked, and I perfectly agree with the changes they are going to implement.

Note that I will still be able to chain 2 or even 3 heartseekers on a smoke field BUT I will not be able to continue doing that eternally.

Charak.9761:

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

Frenk.5917:

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

Most of those fights were against VERY inexperienced pvpers. None of those players used any strategy to stop you from using stealth.

how do you block a leap finish tho?

It’s actually pretty easy. You don’t have necessarly to run interrupts you just need to step inside the black powder field, in order to prevent the thief from doing the second leap finisher. If he did it, he would trigger revelead.

Frenk.5917:

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

you aren’t even permastealthing in your video.

Frigid.6027:

Frenk.5917:

Check my video. I can achieve permastealth very easily, allowing me to not to lose a duel, an encounter or a fight, ever.

you aren’t even permastealthing in your video.

Of course I’m not, my point was to show how with that trait combination I can achieve permastealth and still not sacrifice too much DPS.

It is getting rightfully nerfed. But not because it is op in pvp combat (where it is not op) but due to the sole fact of being able to stay away from combat for extended periods of time.
A stealth-built D/P is not going to kill any decent player. Harass – maybe. Achieve something – no way.

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

If you think d/p has it`s strength in stealth you are mistaken, the point in d/p is that it has 2 different finishers a combofield and a “hard” interrupt.

With the incoming changes to initiative d/p will be even better, once people start to understand that initiative regaining traits are a waste of a slot (and they are even now) our happless victims will stand even less of a chance because everyone will stop ideling away in stealth, the thief QQ will go to even more absurd proportions.

Bazzoong.7145:

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

I’m sorry sir, but could you please enlight me about how can you do that?

Frenk.5917:

Bazzoong.7145:

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

I’m sorry sir, but could you please enlight me about how can you do that?

Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth
Then use blindin powder or health for more stealth
Then use Shadow Refuge
By this time smoke screen should be off cooldown and repeat the above

Sifu.6527:

Frenk.5917:

Bazzoong.7145:

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

I’m sorry sir, but could you please enlight me about how can you do that?

Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth
Then use blindin powder or health for more stealth
Then use Shadow Refuge
By this time smoke screen should be off cooldown and repeat the above

shhhhhh. Don’t give away secrets! They will nerfed when noobs realize this can be done! Zomg 2 thiefs took my keep because not a single person happened to walk into it and totally disrupt 15 min of time taken to assault a keep with a few people inside it.

“Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth”

how are you getting 15 secs of stealth with this? I only get 8-9 seconds.
(thats asuming I take off the trait that gives 2 init when doing each HS, because thats how its going to be after dec 10)

Sifu.6527:

Frenk.5917:

Bazzoong.7145:

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

I’m sorry sir, but could you please enlight me about how can you do that?

Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth
Then use blindin powder or health for more stealth
Then use Shadow Refuge
By this time smoke screen should be off cooldown and repeat the above

you are using utilities where D/P does not need to waste its utilizes to achieve perma stealth

Sanduskel.1850:

Yeah everyone else, including anet just needs to l2p, lol

Your messages always make me lol. You come across as bitter.

As to everyone else… Personally, I do not care whether permastealth is nerfed or not. It is really only effective in 2 areas: WvW roaming to escape, or in PvE to regenerate health. It is not a viable spec in sPvP or tPvP or in WvW zergs.

I think thieves should be much more upset about the changes to evades

aaron.7850:

“Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth”

how are you getting 15 secs of stealth with this? I only get 8-9 seconds.
(thats asuming I take off the trait that gives 2 init when doing each HS, because thats how its going to be after dec 10)

You might want to read the trait descriptions and reconsider your build, I do not say you can get permanent stealth for free with d/d like with d/p at the moment but you can have it.

Create your own build…

Sifu.6527:

Frenk.5917:

Bazzoong.7145:

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

I’m sorry sir, but could you please enlight me about how can you do that?

Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth
Then use blindin powder or health for more stealth
Then use Shadow Refuge
By this time smoke screen should be off cooldown and repeat the above

A part from the fact that is not perma unless you run master of deception, you need 3 utlity skills.. while D/P only needs its initiative. It’s like saying “I can have more dps than a thief without being a thief!” and reroll a warrior.

The obvious answer is the ridiculous amount of init regen that is done while the thief is in relative safety. Engage a fight, the enemy pops their load, D/P stealth to near full init, kill said target with BS/HS.

Another reason is the stealth has no cooldown. CnD is expensive if it misses and other stealth skills are one some pretty big timers.

Lets not forget about making sweeps ridiculously tedious. Dead players in an enemy keep with a D/P running around is beyond annoying.

Absolutely no reason to play D/D as D/P has a much better stealth mechanism with virtually none of the downsides. D/P will be on par with D/D after the patch.

Lastly, it makes the class almost impossible to kill. If a competent D/P doesn’t want to die, they generally don’t. This was kitten ing almost everyone off.

Sifu.6527:

Frenk.5917:

Bazzoong.7145:

I can permastealth with d/d without CnD…

I’m sorry sir, but could you please enlight me about how can you do that?

Smoke Screen + HS = 15 secs of stealth
Then use blindin powder or health for more stealth
Then use Shadow Refuge
By this time smoke screen should be off cooldown and repeat the above

Shadow Refuge completely gives away your location. Can’t really compare that to the actual “permastealth” being discussed here.

Doggie.3184:

Shadow Refuge completely gives away your location. Can’t really compare that to the actual “permastealth” being discussed here.

And refuge is often a giant billboard that says AoE the hell out of this spot. Even worse if a thief is pulled from it they get instantly revealed.

Straegen.2938:

Doggie.3184:

Shadow Refuge completely gives away your location. Can’t really compare that to the actual “permastealth” being discussed here.

And refuge is often a giant billboard that says AoE the hell out of this spot. Even worse if a thief is pulled from it they get instantly revealed.

Dat giant neon sign, always grabs attention of the nearest Mesmer to immediately use greatsword aoe knockback to push the Thief out of it.

This is why they should apply “revealed” whenever initiative is spent. No more perma stealthing………

Perma stealth is still going to be possible, just more difficult to achieve.

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

When a thief sits in stealth, they aren’t killing anything.

When a warrior is charging up a kill-shot, he isn’t killing anything. -_-

wow
such skills needed for d/p
much stealth spam
many LOL