Guild Wars 2

Concerning this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Karl-McLain-Appreciation-Thread

This is the not thread, zero appreciation here.

Thief got totally messed up, everything that worked and was fun was either totally destroyed or removed, mindlessly stacking damage multipliers is all that is left.

Daredevil is just a weaker form of stuff we had and that got removed, it is the stupid attempt to introduce warrior like gameplay for thieves, this will not work and get you killed faster than you will “appreciate”.

Mindless AoE damage everywhere, utilities that are basically the same as certain weapon skills, zero appreciation here.

Do not get me started on a healing skill that makes you unable to move.

No access to resistance, still no access to stability….

Appreciation level sub-zero.

Okay, you hate the Daredevil, got it. The only thing I agree with in your post is the healing skill is lackluster. However, apparently you can move while you cast it according to WP. No idea how that would work, though, and he did not seem sure.

I don’t really see where resistance or stability is necessary here. All classes operate differently, and those are hardly things that we need to “check in the box.” Our defense is dodging anything that would be damaging us or hindering us. DD seems quite adept at it.

As for the DD trait line that I believe you are comparing to the old acro line, they are very comparable. I think the DD line is a little better, but I can at least understand the complaint of them killing the acro line.

Lastly, I would like to hear what weapon skills are new utilities are like. You lost me a bit on that one.

Actually, I think Daredevil has a lot going for it as an elite specialization… but that it won’t be enough to overcome three years of accumulated developer neglect. If our core skills and traits aren’t adjusted at all, nothing meaningful will change.

I’ve been a Thief main since the game first came out and while I do agree that S/D Thief right now isn’t that good in pvp, D/P is still strong as hell. I feel if they can just properly balance Ele and Mesmer, D/P will be one of the top meta builds. S/D would also rise back up a bit too. I mainly play S/D thief with acro even right now and in a 1v1, I can take on any class and build and hold my own but the two things that always feel so unbalanced to fight are Ele and Mesmer. These two can accidentally kill you just by facerolling the keyboard in PvP. In WvW, not so much because you don’t have to stand on a point. Imo, the buffs to those two are the reason Thieves are feeling so underpowered. I do think some small buffs are needed for Thieves just to make other sets more viable like blind on Cloak and Dagger baseline but for the most part, Daredevil will add some great new stuff to Thief and once Ele and Mesmer are balanced, I feel the Thief won’t feel like a +1 class.

Can’t tell if that no-effort troll post was targeting me or someone else, but…

I did just say DD has a lot going for it as an elite spec. At the moment, I am genuinely excited by what DD brings to the table. But like I said before… without some core changes, it’ll ultimately be for naught.

Turns out you can’t build a stable house on a shaky foundation! Who knew?

Amante.8109:

Can’t tell if that no-effort troll post was targeting me or someone else, but…

I did just say DD has a lot going for it as an elite spec. At the moment, I am genuinely excited by what DD brings to the table. But like I said before… without some core changes, it’ll ultimately be for naught.

Turns out you can’t build a stable house on a shaky foundation! Who knew?

Troll post was for the OP.

Why does it turn out that way? You nor I know how this is going to turn out. None of us have played it yet. Your post is hearsay. As for Rain’s post, it was definitely directed at the OP. He was the one complaining about lack of stability (for some reason).

No one knows how it’s going to turn out: welcome to life!

People not knowing everything is a given for any particular form of communication. We meet to discuss things BECAUSE we don’t know, or we’d just be off in the corner by ourselves, knowing exactly how specs will turn out and getting rich from our inborn knowledge of futures on the stock market.

Amante.8109:

No one knows how it’s going to turn out: welcome to life!

People not knowing everything is a given for any particular form of communication. We meet to discuss things BECAUSE we don’t know, or we’d just be off in the corner by ourselves, knowing exactly how specs will turn out and getting rich from our inborn knowledge of futures on the stock market.

I’m just saying I think it was a little brash to just say DD is a lost cause because of core Thief needing work. If you wanted to, you could have almost nothing on your skill bar from the core Thief. The Thief mechanics are solid and we have trait lines that everyone agrees are good. So if you take those good trait lines, add DD, take good or synergistic weapons, and add staff if it ends up good along with good utilities from DD and the core class, You can end up with something that is very good. It does not matter if the core class has issues if you can just take what is good from it and leave the rest.

I do want the issues with acro, S/D, main hand pistol, and all the other issues we have to be fixed, but those issues will not automatically decide whether or not DD will be a performer.

If we assume that everything stays the same as it is now, other than what’s been revealed (which is quite an assumption to be fair), I don’t think a lot of the new stuff will see play in SPvP other than the DD traitline and the stunbreak. The rest looks interesting but probably won’t displace stuff like Shadowstep, Shadow Refuge, D/P+Shortbow, et al. Unless more changes between now and HoT release, which I certainly hope it does…

Rainman.6978:

The Thief mechanics are solid and we have trait lines that everyone agrees are good.

Actually, that seems to be a sizable point of contention, judging by the tone of both this thread and rest of the Thief subforum. It suggests that a large amount of dedicated Thief players are NOT satisfied with the current state of their class and its core competencies.

Steal is a reasonably useful—but still clunky—class mechanic that has a lot of issues that come with it. One is that you are forced to go Trickery if you want Steal to be genuinely worthwhile; most of the other trait lines enhance it, but in ways that are not good enough on their own.

So yeah, I’d say Trickery is the only Thief trait line that is widely agreed upon as “good”, but in a sense where it’s so vital that it’s not even a choice… you really need that +3 Max Initiative in particular. This leaves the following trait lines as choices:

Acrobatics: Universally agreed upon as a bad traitline, except in S/D builds where it is borderline TOLERABLE. This will improve in HoT with S/D builds using the DD traitline, but that’s probably it.

Critical Strikes: A gimmicky trait line that has some good stuff but is real hit or miss. It is good for D/P and great for Pistols, but you can rarely fit it in regardless.

Deadly Arts: Suffers from some focus issues, but is up there with Trickery as one of our best lines (or really, the only other one that comes close to being good).

Shadow Arts: Seems to be a real point of contention. Some people think it’s a great line, some think it’s awful. My take is that it’s a clunky, badly arranged trait line that you shouldn’t HAVE to take, but in today’s awkward SPvP meta, are often forced to.

Amante.8109:

Rainman.6978:

The Thief mechanics are solid and we have trait lines that everyone agrees are good.

Actually, that seems to be a sizable point of contention, judging by the tone of both this thread and rest of the Thief subforum. It suggests that a large amount of dedicated Thief players are NOT satisfied with the current state of their class and its core competencies.

Steal is a reasonably useful—but still clunky—class mechanic that has a lot of issues that come with it. One is that you are forced to go Trickery if you want Steal to be genuinely worthwhile; most of the other trait lines enhance it, but in ways that are not good enough on their own.

So yeah, I’d say Trickery is the only Thief trait line that is widely agreed upon as “good”, but in a sense where it’s so vital that it’s not even a choice… you really need that +3 Max Initiative in particular. This leaves the following trait lines as choices:

Acrobatics: Universally agreed upon as a bad traitline, except in S/D builds where it is borderline TOLERABLE. This will improve in HoT with S/D builds using the DD traitline, but that’s probably it.

Critical Strikes: A gimmicky trait line that has some good stuff but is real hit or miss. It is good for D/P and great for Pistols, but you can rarely fit it in regardless.

Deadly Arts: Suffers from some focus issues, but is up there with Trickery as one of our best lines (or really, the only other one that comes close to being good).

Shadow Arts: Seems to be a real point of contention. Some people think it’s a great line, some think it’s awful. My take is that it’s a clunky, badly arranged trait line that you shouldn’t HAVE to take, but in today’s awkward SPvP meta, are often forced to.

So then this would still go back to why I believe that DD can be good in spite of the core class. I pretty much agree with all of your assessments when it comes to trait lines, which means we can have three good lines ( I think DA is good). So we run DA, TR, DD, and that covers our traits. I also believe s/d will see a resurgence. The reason it stopped seeing use before was due to the dismemberment of Acro, but it has the support it needs back with DD trait line. I am also curious if we might see a return of d/d players, which have been pretty few for quite a long time. I’m mostly just basing that on lotus training, though. Alright, fine, I’m grasping at straws on that one.

Stop derailing my thread, this is the NOT thread, if you want to “appreciate” post in an appropriate thread.

In my oppinion this pofession got destroyed and daredevil does not change anything about that. I want to know if there are people who think about this the same way as I do.

This is what this threadis about. So stop posting off topic.

Rainman.6978:

Okay, you hate the Daredevil, got it. The only thing I agree with in your post is the healing skill is lackluster. However, apparently you can move while you cast it according to WP. No idea how that would work, though, and he did not seem sure.

I’m pretty sure you can heal. The first instance where we saw the heal skill in action if I remember well was when they were killing the NPCs in the mists as a demo and not when going through all the new skills. And there we can clearly see the thief run and channel the heal at the same time.

Found it : https://youtu.be/bcEoC0j8mlU?t=755

If you have an argument to make as to why thief actually is not destroyed you are allowed to post. But make a good argument. Do not give me some “omg insane crit” BS I know all that also spare me all your +1 spvp BS, spvp is a hopless game mode and thieves are just a liability there, also spare me all that venom share BS.