Every Thief in this game will be happy: better build variety (no more forced to pick Infusion of Shadow and Shadow’s Embrace), no mandatory Last Refuge and a general utility trait is now minor.
I’ve sugested this before too, though with a decrease of 1 initiative from 2 on Infussion of Shadow to compensate for giving it “for free” without needing to spend trait slots.
This way:
- You no longer die because of a trait that you’re forced to pick.
- The 5 pt mechanic, as in many other cases, works combining the profession mechanic (initiative) with the trait tree theme (stealth). You can see this in multiple trait lines.
- It gives more freedom to pick traits (if you had doubts between IoS and remove conditions when stealthed, you can now have both).
- It serves as a semi-nerf for builds that exploited the 2 initiative gain to spam heartseeker over Black Powder fields to get insane amounts of stealth, so while helping players as you’re getting rid of Last Refuge and letting them have IoS in adition to another trait they wanted, you’re limiting the effectiveness of that combo that is very abused currently, so you take a bit while giving another bit and everyone is happy.
Shadow Embrace for free would be too much I think (maybe Shadow Embrace with an inner cooldown, but that would hurt a lot thieves that rely on it to clear conditions).
Shadow Embrace for free would be too much I think (maybe Shadow Embrace with an inner cooldown, but that would hurt a lot thieves that rely on it to clear conditions).
Then just swap it further down the tree with meld with shadows, making meld with shadows a 5pt trait.
Shadow Embrace for free would be too much I think (maybe Shadow Embrace with an inner cooldown, but that would hurt a lot thieves that rely on it to clear conditions).
Then just swap it further down the tree with meld with shadows, making meld with shadows a 5pt trait.
It’s still for free without needing to chose that or the other. If I had to chose the reduced IoS or MiS as 5pt trait, I would prefer IoS and is a great synergy between the main mechanic and the tree mechanic. I don’t see Shadow Embrace being available without wasting a slot unless the nerfbat makes it pointless.
I think that swapping Last Refuge and Infusion of Shadow without changing the IoS effect is good and wouldn’t make anything OP.
Right now, without that trait, you barely can enter in stealth reliably. It makes sense that a mandatory trait for stealth-oriented thieves is cheap to reach.
Then, the further you go into the Shadow Arts traitline, the better your stealth become.
As Anubarak pointed out, it helps also build variety in PvE without making it OP.
25/30/5/0/15 would be OP, but you don’t have enough traitpoints.
What it helps is making the Black Powder + Multiple Heatseekers combo available for every single build as you only have to use 5 pts for that, instead of 10 including a wasted Major slot.
This is why I think it would be a good idea to place it there, but with a reduction to 1 initiative instead of 2. D/P is popular enough now, stealth too and that would make it too good in any possible spec. It’s like Guardian’s Valor tree (I think it is Valor) that have a 5pt trait that grants an extra block at 50% HP and literally every competitive build has 5pts there.
When you make a 5pt trait (that should be complementary but not build defining) that everyone spends 5pts in that tree only to pick that one, then you know that trait shouldn’t be a 5pt trait.
This change eliminates the suicide trait and gives a completly free Major Trait Slot. Right now without those 2 advantages, SA is the most popular tree we have by faaaaaaar. If you’re going to make the changes, then you have to give something in return or the status quo would rise to new levels. And even a 1 initiative IoS could be good enough to spend just 5 pts to get it. Honestly I don’t think it would damage builds that much, only the scapist BP+HS*3 combo that is being abused to death. You can’t give those bonuses to the best tree we have without taking something in return.
I see all your ideas as nerfs rather than simple and non impactful buffs.
This. I see nerfs all over with nothing to compensate.
Getting rid of Last Refuge is the dream of most Thieves. And in adition to that you get a free Major Slot because you transform one of the most useful slot traits into a free 5pts trait. I don’t see where is the lack of compensation here… If anything we could argue that reducting IoS from 2 to 1 would be too little to compensate for the enourmous boost to our already best trait line. (No more accidental deaths because of Last Refuge and no longer needing to choose between embrace and infusion).
Have Black Powder trigger instead of blinding powder. The only issue I could see with this is in it’s current form black powder is a weapon skill and applies damage which would be upsetting to be ripped out of stealth when low health. I envision a black powder that just drops the 4 second smoke field.
A victor gives no quarter when the victor shows no clemency or mercy
and refuses to spare the life in return for the surrender at discretion (unconditional surrender)
of a vanquished opponent.
Likely Last refuge will never be changed for a trait that doesn’t cause stealth because it breaks the flow. If the trait doesn’t give you stealth than you can’t trigger 15 or 25.
Likewise If you look at DA serpent’s touch is a catalyst for Lotus poison and Exposed weakness. If Serpent’s touch suddenly became Mug, you’d have to trigger Lotus poison and Exposed through means which you may not normally have (eg P/P, P/D, S/D, and S/P lacking poison).
If they were going to swap traits then Hidden thief makes sense since pretty much 15 SA and 25 SA build up on it far better and reliably than they do Last Refuge, but then thieves would complain about hidden thief being impossible to play around or some bullkitten like that.
If they were going to swap traits then Hidden thief makes sense since pretty much 15 SA and 25 SA build up on it far better and reliably than they do Last Refuge, but then thieves would complain about hidden thief being impossible to play around or some bullkitten like that.
No one would complain about Hidden Thief implemented on Steal. It means you save 6 (or 4 if traited) initiative from the CnD + Steal combo and now you can just steal to get the effect.
Switching it with any of the normal traits people pick is fine with me. Be it clear conditions in stealth, blind on stealth or gain 2 ini on stealth. Even changing it to something simple like dropping a blinding powder field would work for me.
