Guild Wars 2

I love the idea of a thief and along with my elementalist, it was going to be my other main char to play. but what puts me off playing it is the fact that the thief doesn’t play how a thief should.
When I think of a thief I don’t think of a person skilled in the art of stabbing someone to death as fast as possible. it’s someone skilled in the art of stealth and deception. The thief in GW2’s main playstyle is to kill as quick as possible with stealth being used mainly as a way to escape if it goes kittens up. Why not lower the damage (which is fair to say way higher than any other class) and increase the amount of stealth type playstyle, I would rather deceive and vanish more often and whittle away at someone than kill them with a few spammable buttons before they have time to react or run away

Anyone else agree?

And I know people may say a thief can perma-vanish, but that’s because of a current bug which isn’t making a thief re-appear when he should. AFAIK

Then don’t play a backstab thief. Pistol/Dagger and Sword/Dagger are both stealth-based without being burst-centric.

firstly, the thief is exactly how I want to play a thief. if it doesn’t fit YOUR ideal image of a thief, then play something else. thief in this game works as intended.

Pretty much any build aside from the gimmicky I-can-kill-you-every-45-seconds Backstab will play stealthy and deceptive. Have you tried out a Trap build? Or, as someone already mentioned, a S/D Daze build? Those are very Thief-like imo, and revolve more around controlling your opponent than bursting them down.

I’ll stick with my S/D evade + stealth + shadowstep based build. If you don’t use a backstab build, then you’re already in the ballpark of your definition.

I’d love for a more “natural” style of stealth.. Using blind corners for ambushes, and such. Like Pyro in TF2, or Dark Souls PvP.

Unfortunately, I don’t see it working with the mechanics of the game. You can do it, but it doesn’t feel very useful in most situations. Worthless in PvE, sPvP has wide-open control points, and in WvW, lone wolfing is suicidal.

its called d/d rottaran, and use sbow too. very common build thats used for exactly what your saying. you dont have to go assasins signet for it to work.

Thief: A person who steals another person’s property, esp. by stealth and without using force or violence.

Of all the skills, abilities and weapons we have available… only one steals something and yet we are called a Thief for some reason, we are less thieves and more rogues/assassins regardless of what the profession is called or what the devs say.

I have to say I too was very disappointed at how the thief was designed. Like the OP I was expecting a stealthy type. I mean a thief, by it’s very name, MUST be sly, hidden, stealthy etc. I was also surprised that my thief, who wears leather, is squishier than my cloth wearers. I was very disappointed. Besides my ranger, my thief was supposed to by my main as I -always- play this type of class in every MMO I’ve ever played over the last 15 years. (Yeah, I’m an old fart, LOL!) Sadly, my thief is shelved for the time being in favor of my ranger, my necro, and my warrior. I’m also just starting to level an elementalist.

MY only advice for the OP is to play whatever class you find fun. Give thief a real try. You may find yourself liking it after you’ve adjusted to a different play style. If you don’t, then it’s okay to be disappointed but then just put your thief on the shelf for a time and roll another class until you find one that you have a blast playing. One of the things AN has done right, imo, is making so many classes and how each race can be any of the classes. I also like the fact that every class can do a bit of everything. You aren’t stuck being -only- a healer or -only- a tank, etc. I have confidence you will find at least one, if not a few, classes you will LOVE to play. Who knows? Thief might even be one of them once you adjust to it. Good luck!

I think the issue here is that the OP ‘wants’ a World of Warcraft rogue and not a Guild Wars 2 thief. I agree with mrsachelm in the fact that there are many other classes out there that the OP can try, however this should not turn into a debate of what is and what is not a thief. I don’t care by whose definition a ‘thief’ is. this is a game and the ‘thief’ is by Guild Wars 2 definition, we all know definitions change over time. adapt and learn is my advice.

Just pretend Thief=Assassin. Problem solved and from the very basic research I did before even buying GW2 I found out that the Thief didn’t play like a thief…it played like an Assassin.

ddrake.5436:

I think the issue here is that the OP ‘wants’ a World of Warcraft rogue and not a Guild Wars 2 thief. I agree with mrsachelm in the fact that there are many other classes out there that the OP can try, however this should not turn into a debate of what is and what is not a thief. I don’t care by whose definition a ‘thief’ is. this is a game and the ‘thief’ is by Guild Wars 2 definition, we all know definitions change over time. adapt and learn is my advice.

True enough. In every MMO I’ve played (EverQuest, EverQuest2, WoW, RIft, etc etc etc ad nausea, lol) the “rogue” styled class has always relied heavily on stealth. It has been one of the staples, even. Yes, in -this- game the thief is different and this game is NOT the others mentioned above. This doesn’t mean, imo, that it’s not an initial shock after having gotten so used to this type of class being styled a certain way for so long. The OP isn’t “wrong” for expressing their viewpoint of what they expected, or what they think the specialties of the class generally would be based on the name given it. It’s an understandable expectation initially, at least.

I have grown fond of the “old way” of stealthy rogues type play so I play my rogue in Rift rather then in GW2 as it fulfills the style of play I enjoy in that particular general class. I will likely go back to my thief at a later date, dust her off and see if I can find a way to play her in -this- game that is both fun and successful. If not, so be it and no biggie. I would also say that there is definitely something to be said for not always doing things the way everyone else does and as far as the thief class is concerned, AN is not letting them rely so heavily on stealth which makes the class in -this- game it’s own unique thing. If I can adapt to this uniqueness and enjoy it, then I will have discovered something new I enjoy. If I find I do not adapt or adapt but do not enjoy it, that’s okay. There are many players who -do- enjoy it very much and it’s not necessary or even likely that everyone will like every class.

@ddrake.5436 – you do realise that the GW2 Thief plays exactly like the WoW Rogue right?

My point was that it’s called a thief but it plays more like an assassin… so am I not correct in saying that calling it a thief is wrong? If they called it “Assassin” that would make more sense. Read my title and what I wrote. don’t dwell on on what I said i personally want.

Angel.1435:

@ddrake.5436 – you do realise that the GW2 Thief plays exactly like the WoW Rogue right?

My point was that it’s called a thief but it plays more like an assassin… so am I not correct in saying that calling it a thief is wrong? If they called it “Assassin” that would make more sense. Read my title and what I wrote. don’t dwell on on what I said i personally want.

@Angel, no.. in WoW the class is called rogue, in GW2 it is called thief, and no they do not play exactly alike. please don’t make the assumption they are the same, as this is falacy. and you are giving out incorrect information.

to answer your ‘point’. It does not play more like an assassin, It plays exactly as intended ‘as a thief’, by your definition is not ‘the’ definition. your title is an incorrect statement and I am correcting you! what you want is by my definition a ninja – we don’t have ninja’s in this game, sorry. however if you want to stealth more and play deceptive, maybe a mesmer might be to your liking? otherwise don’t go D/D and burst your foes, try another spec maybe?

P/P?
P/D?
S/P?
S/D?
D/P?

I am using P/P and I use far more of what you call deception than you might think, Utility Thieves Guild is deceptive, is it not? which is the real thief?

BabelFish.7234:

Just pretend Thief=Assassin. Problem solved and from the very basic research I did before even buying GW2 I found out that the Thief didn’t play like a thief…it played like an Assassin.

Not true at all. There is a single spec, that being the gimmicky Backtab build, that plays anything like an Assassin. If you stop pretending that the BS build is the only way to play your Thief, you’ll have much more fun with the class. Try traps, a daze spec, or maybe even a condition build like Wild Bill’s.

People really need to get it into their heads that Thieves have more options at their disposal for control, deceit, and stealth than the insta-gib spec. Thieves =/= Assassin’s outside of ONE very specific build that kills people in 2-3 hits.

I think he might be referring to a GW1 Assassin, which the Thief does have a lot of similarities to.

“Some” similarities, not “a lot.” Thieves were designed to be completely different from GW1 Assassins, which I’d say they achieved with about 75% accuracy. They may have a few similarities, but they do not play the same at all.

Angel.1435:

I would rather deceive and vanish more often and whittle away at someone

Throw in frequent dazes and dodging, and that’s how I play.

I pointed this out in a post a long time ago:

GW Assassin = Thief

GW2 Thief = Assassin

The GW Assassin was exceptionally mobile and deception based who had to apply pressure where it needed to be when it needed to be. That was the key. A GW2 Thief is a burst powerhouse specializing in assassinations. Personally I liked the Assassin better because I like movement and guise better than simple raw damage. That’s what I thought I was going to get with the Thief. I was sad to find out this was wrong.
So yes… they got something mixed up and lost sight of the original namesake.

As the other posters have said, Theif has the option to play backstabby, but is actually very viable is survival and condition-centric builds that make heavy use of stealth.

I play a pistol/dagger condition theif, and I am literally incapable of killing people in seconds. What I am capable of doing is spending more than half of the fight in stealth, cackling madly while my target blows all of his cooldowns, condition removal, and dies anyway blind, poisoned, bleeding, crippled, and with whatever effects from the multiple things I stole from him.

In group PvP my job is simply that: force the target to blow condition removal or die. Then he has nothing left to escape the group with. If he runs from the main fight it is my job to track him down and make sure he dies via spammable and permanent cripples, poisons, and bleeds.

Does a non-backstab theif boast HUUUUGE damage numbers or measure kills in seconds? No. What you get in stead is the option of some of the nastiest and most reliable condition applications in the game, whenever you want them in stead of when the cooldown is ready. You get one of the most survivable characters in the game, rivalling a full tank guardian in its ability to just plain not die. The thing is, you have to choose to build the theif that way in stad of assuming that because your class says “theif” you should be picking up nothing but crit/power gear and traits.

Yeah, I feel like thieves should almost be like the physical versions of mesmers. Lots of damage through small attacks, rather than big chunks of burst.

This is a fast paced game. Doing what you suggest would ruin the class.

Really? WE do the highest damage? Our damage was nerfed! If you noticed! PW was nerfed by 15%. That is 15%! Assassin’s Signet was nerfed!

There are so many posts about stealth being too long and now you want to reduce our damage as well? As some other guy said on the post, might as well call us low damage, low toughness, medium armored warriors!

Sco.9615:

…A GW2 Thief is a burst powerhouse specializing in assassinations…

Are you high? There is a SINGLE build that plays like that. Just. One. Build. None of the other ways to build a Thief revolve around insta-gibbing an enemy. Conditions take time to run their course. Daze spec picks at a foe while essentially stun-locking them. Traps, although underwhelming at the moment, are built around playing with peoples minds to keep them on their toes; watching their step. The Backstab setup is not even CLOSE to being the only viable spec for any part of the game, so stop tunnel-visioning and calling Thieves something they are NOT.

PopeUrban.2578:

As the other posters have said, Theif has the option to play backstabby, but is actually very viable is survival and condition-centric builds that make heavy use of stealth.

I play a pistol/dagger condition theif, and I am literally incapable of killing people in seconds. What I am capable of doing is spending more than half of the fight in stealth, cackling madly while my target blows all of his cooldowns, condition removal, and dies anyway blind, poisoned, bleeding, crippled, and with whatever effects from the multiple things I stole from him.

In group PvP my job is simply that: force the target to blow condition removal or die. Then he has nothing left to escape the group with. If he runs from the main fight it is my job to track him down and make sure he dies via spammable and permanent cripples, poisons, and bleeds.

Does a non-backstab theif boast HUUUUGE damage numbers or measure kills in seconds? No. What you get in stead is the option of some of the nastiest and most reliable condition applications in the game, whenever you want them in stead of when the cooldown is ready. You get one of the most survivable characters in the game, rivalling a full tank guardian in its ability to just plain not die. The thing is, you have to choose to build the theif that way in stad of assuming that because your class says “theif” you should be picking up nothing but crit/power gear and traits.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. When you sacrifice the gimmicky burst damage, you gain incredibly RELIABLE damage and some pretty intense control options like spammable CC and mobility.

I enjoy the thief mechanics as of right now. I’ve been playing around with D/D and love popping in and out of stealth. It’s like a free evade, couple that with some skill points into Acrobatics, and you’ve got an untouchable thief that evades just about everything.

Thief is probably one of the most mobile of the classes (imo at least). We can dip in and out of combat practically at will.

The damage nerf on some of skills hurt, but I would believe that Anet is working on a way to give us more sustained damage. PvE dungeons are the only place where my thief feels lackluster in the damage department. I make up for it with blinds, slows and some of the better combo fields (dark).

Cris Croix.2370:

Sco.9615:

…A GW2 Thief is a burst powerhouse specializing in assassinations…

Are you high? There is a SINGLE build that plays like that. Just. One. Build. None of the other ways to build a Thief revolve around insta-gibbing an enemy.

Yup. Saying that thieves are all glass cannon burst powerhouses is like saying that all warriors are knockdown → 100b spammers, or that all necros are minion masters, or that all guardians are immortal bunkers. You can’t look at one build and use that to make judgements about the class as a whole, even if that build is a little too popular.

It’s purely semantics basing how you think a class should play based on what it’s called. If you can get past this minor hurdle, thief plays just fine.

ITT many various people either support or decry the “design” of the thief based on their particular play style regardless of the fact that you can play a thief however you want.

Making generalizations about how a thief is meant to be played and whether or not that fits with what is in your head is useless, GW2 isn’t that restricting on playstyles. If you want a high-survivability stealth thief that is impossible to catch, it is viable, do it. If you want an assassin that can jump into combat an kill someone in a couple seconds before getting out, go ahead. If you want a duelist that can use agility and clever swordplay to stay in the melee indefinitely without resorting to flighty tactics, have fun. And those are just some of the more common archetypes it is easy to be successful with as a thief.

GW2 is less about finding a profession that meets the playstyle you enjoy and more about applying said playstyle to your profession.

Uhhh what.

Thieves have always been about:
-High criticals
-Stealing items
-Medium health, Medium-Light protection
-Poisons
-Stealth (more recent concept)
since the dawn of videogaming. Stealth is the newest of those concepts and criticals the 2nd oldest after stealing.
The only thing actually straying from the thief archetype is the use of noisy pistols. Thieves have traditionally used daggers, swords and rarely shortbows throughout vidya game history.

@kKagari.6804 – Thankyou! that’s exactly how I feel it should play.. I don’t care what the tradition in videogames to make them play with this style is, but it’s not what a real thief is. think back to the old Victorian times of pickpockets and thieves, they didn’t run around stabbing people up then taking their wallets and kitten. They blended in with the crowd and used deception to take from people. I know this is a more combat based comparison to real life, but it should still be more about the deception (similar to a mesmers magical version of deception) only in a more melee format. rather than delivering a massive backstab to some dude. that isn’t what an actual thief does.

Angel.1435:

it should still be more about the deception (similar to a mesmers magical version of deception) only in a more melee format. rather than delivering a massive backstab to some dude. that isn’t what an actual thief does.

So play that way? You can definitely build a highly effective thief that utilizes heavy stealth and summoned thieves to confuse and disorient an opponent.

Well I often play pvp and know a lot of the games classes are balanced mainly around PvP, but those builds don’t seem viable at all, I can only speak from experience as an elementalist and guardian, but I know neither of my characters have had issues dealing with those types of players, and the only ones who pose any threat are the glass cannon sneaks who hit you then run when you’re still standing, and they just come back trying to pick at you… It never works though. but I see them dropping most people in a few spammable hits, which seems pretty boring. I tried it in pvp and it was so easy and the mundane I gave up straight away.

Angel.1435:

Well I often play pvp and know a lot of the games classes are balanced mainly around PvP, but those builds don’t seem viable at all, I can only speak from experience as an elementalist and guardian, but I know neither of my characters have had issues dealing with those types of players, and the only ones who pose any threat are the glass cannon sneaks who hit you then run when you’re still standing, and they just come back trying to pick at you… It never works though. but I see them dropping most people in a few spammable hits, which seems pretty boring. I tried it in pvp and it was so easy and the mundane I gave up straight away.

There’s a dozen threads on this forum if you want to read up on why glass cannon assassination builds aren’t the only way to play. To put it simply, though, you’re wrong about only those setups being viable. Many thieves fall into the trap of “well, X is effective, therefore X is the only viable way to play”.

Saying that thieve can only Steal→C&D→Backstab and you don’t like to play that way is like going to the warrior forums and complaining that you don’t like Signets therefore warriors are the problem. Find an effective way to play your profession that utilizes the aspects you enjoy, it isn’t as impossible as some people make it out to be.

Yeah no. Sounds like what you want is a ninja.

Ninjas strike and disappear in a puff of smoke, never to be seen again.
Thieves sneak around, try to take things, and get into skirmishes to claim their prize.

As far as play-style goes, I believe thieves are exactly where they are suppose to be.

I feel that games like WoW, have mixed the two, and polluted the concept of a “thief”.
Too many games have classes called “Thief” where they disappear in a puff of smoke like a fricking ninja.

The two are actually worlds apart, and I find GW2’s thief very refreshing.

Lol.

Just lol.

Makes me all warm&fuzzy inside to how out of hand this post got because people get defensive when you reference backstab or any of the other combos a Thief uses to deliver high burst damage. Only viable build? No, of course not. But you’re kidding yourself if you don’t admit it isn’t a huge aspect of the class. The point of this thread which was kind of poorly put is this;
Thief’s Goal = Kill target and/or cause mayhem
That you cannot deny. Yes, he has many ways to do it and many sneaky ways to avoid death but that’s the goal.
Assassin’s Goal = Positioning
The Assassin was the one who would be in your base screwing with you and then vanish after he forced your teams hand and capitalize on opportunities gained by opposing player’s actions.
Which one is a Thief and which is the Assassin? That’s the point. GW2 is not GW however and the Thief’s deception ability is near to the only thing you’re going to get to “Thief-like” so therefore it may not feel exactly as “Thief-y” as you want but with how GW2 is designed it is still actually more of a “Thief” than anything else. Not what I was personally hoping for and I do feel the namesake was lost however it’s what you get in this particular game. Just to make everyone feel better about it here’s another similar case they lost sight of;
Ranger- “Rangers are proficient with the bow. They rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature to slay their targets. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance.”
So don’t feel bad the Thief may not be as much of a Thief as you want, at least it functions and that’s the important part.

ddrake.5436:

firstly, the thief is exactly how I want to play a thief. if it doesn’t fit YOUR ideal image of a thief, then play something else. thief in this game works as intended.

so your way to play thief is how they intended it to be played?

Again, the thief was supposed to be called “assassin”, which is how the class kind of works right now.

They couldn’t call it assassin because assassins were trained in Shing Jea Monastery (Cantha) in GW1. Anet didn’t want any confusion between these two classes

I’d like to know what kind of assassin jumps around their opponents heads, cutting them and waiting for them to bleed out.

Seems counter-intuitive to the whole “kill without people knowing” to let your enemy run around for a long time shouting, and screaming that he’s going to die.

“Psychological warfare, and attacking the enemy’s psyche was another often employed tactics of the hashashins, who would sometimes attempt to draw their opponent to submission than risking to kill it.”

Bleeding them ‘till they cry for their mommy’s seems a good way to draw them to submission

My main prob is that there are many other prof I would like to play, but the initiative-playstyle ruined it for me;) some use it as burst like HS, I use it to time:D I know cd works the same but still feels like u got more control.

Back to topic, I would like it more to be the assassin, though I love guns and the gunslinger feeling.. Just give us the ability from the halloween pvp event xD