Yellow,
I would like to hear the opinions of more skilled thieves on the impact that d/p is having in thieves reputation, population and playstyle.
Often I see videos of d/p thieves taking out 5 poor noobs or just fighting along them and escaping. Getting out of LoS in duels so they can stack 4 hs repeatedly in the blindfield to get 10s stealth. Doing it for minutes till cd’s are ready.
I think this build, this thieves and the weather in Germany are having a terrible influence on our external affairs department.
Srsly, grow some beard and play d/d!
:)
X/D FTW!
To all d/p thieves that think they run special builds and are exceptions:
You are bad and you should feel bad too. :-P
Cheer guys, have a nice slaughter weekend, the next patch is around the corner, so brace yourselves!
real men use S/D :P
Yep, d/p is the noobiest build of Guild Wars 2 so far.
I disagree, D/P played well is a pain and very hard to beat but for the most part D/P thieves are just spamming like the others.
the only thing that gives you guys n gals (thief’s) a bad name are the people spamming heart-seeker, you instantly know if a thief’s worth anything its either ‘’spam spam spam’’ and still net a good amount of damage or its a ‘’hit, hide, hit, hide, hide, hide, smash and grab, hide’’ etc no matter the spec thief’s i meet tend to go into stealth, except the artful dodgers bunker trait lines.
i personally think thief s are easy to pick up and win(newer players) / damage people to there hearts content but difficult to truly play to there full potential, especially with S/D and to be honest D/P is not that easy either, its the stealth people moan about and that’s it, so i’m afraid thief’s will always be called what your being called unless stealth is tuned down which i really do NOT think should ever happen, its a core class mechanic.
on the other hand, while being difficult to catch that’s what there all about, once caught they dip in HP like a asteroid plummeting from space.
We have initiative and are supposed to be bursty. By definition the entire class is meant to spam abilities. If we weren’t supposed to spam we’d have cooldowns. Spamming done properly isn’t noobish, cheap, lame, or wrong. It’s what we are. Time to deal with it.
Where are we talking about d/p?
PvE – no one cares
Spvp – I have no experience on thief in structured tourney, hot join, who cares
WvW – d/p is not the #1 troll, invisibility spam build. That belongs to any x/d build in WvW where zergs, noobs and the hordes of red and yellow NPCs do not dodge CnD.
D/P that plays 30 shadow arts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZJg-V1B4xA
-Pros.
*good survival (stealth)
*interrupt
*can easily remove conditions
*healin capability is great! and tougher
*good @ blind foes (Blinding Powder)
*backstab dmg is sick! if u can land it most of the time
*easier to take down 3v1 fight compared to S/D
*very good in WvW Roaming with few friends or Solo
-Cons
*not good in team clash sPvP/tPvPwhile you guys wants to hold the capturing area cuz D/P usually do invi which is not helping your team in holding/capturing points
*lots of Aoe, Traps, Marks and Aoe Condition field is a good counter for D/P invi spam
*lack of break stun compared to S/D
*hard to deal with hybrid or bunker boon guardians/engineers. Beast Master/Condi Regen Rangers, M M necros cuz of many Minions bacsktab is less effective
flanking evade spam S/D
-Pros.
*bunker/boon breakers! easy to deal classes who depends on boons
*very Evasive! untouchable
*Mobility is very good! port in port out (i use infiltrator’s strike/shadow return for breakstun)
*many shadow steps. u can even catch the runnin foe even if hes too far ranging 600 – 3,600 distance
*very hard to counter
*lots of endurance gain and initiative gain when u traited it well
*hard to catch
*very good in team clash i feel like i really helpin the team in this build in sPvP/tPvP compared to my D/P way
*2 secs. daze #1 skill while invisible is good putting pressure on foe
-Cons.
*hard to play this build the gameplay is fast pace unlike stealthy thief build u have plenty of time to think.
*less Stealth just the Cloak and Dagger (but i usually using it for dazing or escaping)
*less healing capability and Squishy
*lack of condi remove on this build i feel burden when many conditions/stacks on me unlike D/P Shadow Refuge or stealth and you’re safe with those many conditions!
*impossible to do 3v1 situation unlike D/P (unless if theyre newbie)
*not good in WvW roaming. if u encounter zerg pretty hard to escape. and lack of stealth kills you as always in WvW thief
D/p isn’t a noob build. It’s just simply the best weapon choice for stealthing.
In spvp there is 4s revealed. X/d is dead in spvp because of that. 4s is an eternity if you are not standing in a black powder.
In wvw, sorry to say, but stacking stealth is needed. People cry so much about heart seeker spam over black powder. How is that any different from x/d spamming cnd off creatures?
Noobs will be noobs. In wvw d/p is king. If you aren’t running it you are stubborn and gimping yourself. In spvp you have 2 choices. D/p or s/d evasion build.
Way I see it, thief is locked into a small amount if builds simply because everything else has been nerfed into the ground. Thanks anet!
nah more like we don’t want to get accustomed to something that is about to get nerfed. like you said, everything besides D/P is nerfed, what makes you think D/P is not next?
I dislike D/P thieves because they can get into stealth and I, as another thief, can’t stop it. I simply do not have the required CC tools, and a lot of different professions are lacking in that department as well. I do not mind D/D or S/D as it requires a bit of tactic that can be disrupted. D/P is too powerful because of that, at least in my opinion. And FYI; I have it as an alternate set (I main S/D) and when I am about to get screwed, I switch to it and (ab)use it to no end just like any other thief. :-)
Yep, d/p is the noobiest build of Guild Wars 2 so far.
No, sorry. That would be Pistol Dagger. Now that build is straight kitten!
I have mixed feelings about a build like that. I will compare it to a D/D burst build.
It is great for stealthing without having to land a C&D. However, it eats initiative like nothing else and in a drawn fight I often find myself running low. Stealth from P/D is also shorter than C&D, if you’re going for a backstab. Also, you’re losing a lot of damage from C&D, and your damage will be generally quite low. Fights are going to be longer, thus increasing the chance that enemy reinforcements will kick in.
It’s a really good build to solo camps, but it’s not that great against players. You still have problems against bunkers like ele, guardian, ranger. Also, considering the ability of said classes to keep the fight going for a long time, you’re running low on initiative. It also has a worse matchup against phantasm mesmer, that you can just burst down with a D/D build. So, basically, you can’t kill builds/classes you wouldn’t already be able to kill with a D/D burst. As a worth to mention exception, I’d say you can crush warriors that rely on cc to Hundred Blades that will bring you down if they catch you unaware with D/D.
It works better than D/D burst against a group of players, provided they’re inexperienced and there aren’t tanky characters among them.
So I can’t really pick a set. When I’m on D/D I feel I can’t do anything useful, while on P/D I can’t take my damage being so low.
(edited by Lucky Shot.7650)
I dislike the ability to attain perma-stealth with dagger/pistol and I don’t think it’s what the developers had intended, but even without it the weapon set offers the best all round selection of skills imo and there is skill involved in using it effectively.
I well timed stun/knockback can be used to prevent them from entering stealth through heartseeker through blackpowder, but if they’re in stealth there’s little you can do to stop them from ‘abusing’ the game mechanics to stay in stealth and heal up.
Where are we talking about d/p?
PvE – no one cares
Spvp – I have no experience on thief in structured tourney, hot join, who cares
WvW – d/p is not the #1 troll, invisibility spam build. That belongs to any x/d build in WvW where zergs, noobs and the hordes of red and yellow NPCs do not dodge CnD.
You forget that hotjoin is the heart and soul of pvp in guild wars 2. You can get a lot more glory and rank points in hotjoin. It is by definition the end game in pvp.
I dislike the ability to attain perma-stealth with dagger/pistol… but if they’re in stealth there’s little you can do to stop them from ‘abusing’ the game mechanics to stay in stealth and heal up.
Try standing in their b/p, one HS in and they are revealed.
Where are we talking about d/p?
PvE – no one cares
Spvp – I have no experience on thief in structured tourney, hot join, who cares
WvW – d/p is not the #1 troll, invisibility spam build. That belongs to any x/d build in WvW where zergs, noobs and the hordes of red and yellow NPCs do not dodge CnD.
You forget that hotjoin is the heart and soul of pvp in guild wars 2. You can get a lot more glory and rank points in hotjoin. It is by definition the end game in pvp.
Endgame is #1 on leaderboards… winning LCS/MLG/IPL.
You forget that hotjoin is the heart and soul of pvp in guild wars 2. You can get a lot more glory and rank points in hotjoin. It is by definition the end game in pvp.
I lol’d. 15 chars?
I dislike the ability to attain perma-stealth with dagger/pistol… but if they’re in stealth there’s little you can do to stop them from ‘abusing’ the game mechanics to stay in stealth and heal up.
Try standing in their b/p, one HS in and they are revealed.
Well a half decent thief wouldn’t use heart seeker if you’re in the way, so it should still work on most people in WvW :P
But if a thief wants to stealth he can just move out of sight and spam blackpowder & heartseeker. Unless they’ve used all their utility skills and are in a dire position, a thief is able to heal up or run away if they want to with very little you can do to stop them.
Why would I play d/d when I can match that damage with d/p and have higher mobility/survivability? You can go ahead and be a “man” with your d/d build. I’m a wvw scout for my server and frankly I like not getting ran over by zergs and keeping my bloodlust stacks.
No, you can’t match that burst but yes, by running P/D you can obtain more results in wvw.
A player of minimal skills can absolutely make people look like fools in wvw with d/p. If you are losing out in wvw using d/p that is 100% your own fault. The stealth and still having so much burst makes that insane. I am not a good thief at all and have always run s/d and love it but I tried d/p and no clue why anyone would run anything else. It is the closest thing imo this game has to easy mode. #1 anyone running it and dies it is 100% their own doing. Because the ability to get away with no problems is always an option. I wish more would start running it because that way there would be some type of fix for it.
Lol? I assume you think X/D is harder because dagger off-hand, and DB or so incredibly nerfed. D/P is just superior, S/D is great in terms of a weapon set, except that your 4 and 5 blow.
P/D, and D/D are far more inferior because they are vastly behind in synergy compared to D/P. Has nothing to do with skill required of the weapon set.
I agree d/p is far superior I think most agree with that. Also, I don’t blame anyone for running d/p. But, no class should have the ability that combo gives. Huge burst and the ability to constantly disengage at will. Which also nicely enough allows us to regen while in stealth mean while the other player isn’t regening he is stuck in combat. LOL don’t get me wrong for someone like me I need all the help I can get but players that are better then me can absolutely kill groups of people. No class should be able to do what this combo allows.
As a thief I run many different weapon-sets.
I like d/d//sb the most as the dmg gain from CnD is quite nice on small fights and sb is great on bigger fights when you need to back off from the aoe area.
IMO d/p can be better than d/d on some situations.
when you need more cond removal or when the opponent(s) are hard to keep in melee range.
But in larger fights, the smoke field gets under other fields and its hard to get your stealth (fire aura is not what I had in mind with my HS!).
the problem with this combo is also ranged ground-target aoe. If the opponent has any idea how you work he can really give you problems.
The stealth from the combo is much shorter than your utils and you need to pass by the combo, sometimes more than one time. Placing ranged AoE over the smoke field is going to hit the thief.
When Im on my thief and find someone with d/p I use shortbow and place a poison field and some cluster bombs over the field while taking distance. Thiefs guild and ambush trap are also great as the melee thief will mess up the combo standing in the way of the HS.
We have initiative and are supposed to be bursty. By definition the entire class is meant to spam abilities. If we weren’t supposed to spam we’d have cooldowns. Spamming done properly isn’t noobish, cheap, lame, or wrong. It’s what we are. Time to deal with it.
It sure is cheesy and easy though.
I’m a wvw scout for my server and frankly I like not getting ran over by zergs and keeping my bloodlust stacks.
Scout? In my server we just have spies in the enemy server lol. But be a man all you want.
No, sorry. That would be Pistol Dagger. Now that build is straight kitten!
It is. I can tell because I run it a lot. But at least you can “dodge” the cloack and dagger.
D/p isn’t a noob build. It’s just simply the best weapon choice for stealthing.
Brilliant logic right here. Also, I win buttons aren’t noob buttons, they are just best choices of buttons for winning.
(edited by Master of Timespace.2548)
Speaking from a WvW standpoint, D/P having much more utility than D/D, I can still see why people (including myself) prefer dagger offhand. The setup is faster to burst with D/D, and for some people the risk of missing a Cloak and Dagger is worth that small amount of time. With all of the NPCs in WvW, it’s even easier to use. That’s really the only clear reason (besides fun) I can think of why so many still choose X/D, other than being stubborn.
(edited by Thorp.7982)
Speaking from a WvW standpoint, D/P having much more utility than D/D, I can still see why people (including myself) prefer dagger offhand. The setup is faster to burst with D/D, and for some people the risk of missing a Cloak and Dagger is worth that small amount of time. With all of the NPCs in WvW, it’s even easier to use. That’s really the only clear reason (besides fun) I can think of why so many still choose X/D, other than being stubborn.
Burst is faster, but also higher, and if you time it right, more successful. Venom, Steal (Mug), Cloak and Dagger, Backstab, Heartseeker.
Compared to, Blackpowder, heartseeker (hits a full life enemy, cloak and dagger does more damage), steal (Mug), backstab, heartseeker.
I find dagger/dagger better, mainly for its ability to stealth stomp faster. Stomping in spvp will win or loose the fight, the point, and will decide the game.
IMO D/P could use a tweaking (mostly 2 ini on stealth is pretty ridiculous on all thief classes besides S/P P/P. It promotes massive stealth spamming)
For the most part with CnD you can easily mitigate the stealth via dodge/cc
With D/P there’s not very much you can do to prevent 90% of their stealth. Stacking blinds on top of it already make it a powerful class. But getting 2 initiative everytime you stealth just doesn’t seem right imo.
I disagree, D/P played well is a pain and very hard to beat but for the most part D/P thieves are just spamming like the others.
the only thing that gives you guys n gals (thief’s) a bad name are the people spamming heart-seeker, you instantly know if a thief’s worth anything its either ‘’spam spam spam’’ and still net a good amount of damage or its a ‘’hit, hide, hit, hide, hide, hide, smash and grab, hide’’ etc no matter the spec thief’s i meet tend to go into stealth, except the artful dodgers bunker trait lines.
i personally think thief s are easy to pick up and win(newer players) / damage people to there hearts content but difficult to truly play to there full potential, especially with S/D and to be honest D/P is not that easy either, its the stealth people moan about and that’s it, so i’m afraid thief’s will always be called what your being called unless stealth is tuned down which i really do NOT think should ever happen, its a core class mechanic.
on the other hand, while being difficult to catch that’s what there all about, once caught they dip in HP like a asteroid plummeting from space.
I completely agree with you. Easy for new players to kill equals, but really tough to master.
To the OP:
They could fix much of the stealth qqing by making it impossible to stack stealth and give 3 seconds of revealed each time you leave stealth, for any reason. One more thing could be to have any physical attack reveal the thief and have channels broken if the thief stealths while being channeled. That would fix a lot, and force us thieves to be more selective of when to stealth – in other words: more skilled play.
Real men use S/P.
Just remove 100% leapfinisher or smokecombo and watch them tears.
D/p isn’t a noob build. It’s just simply the best weapon choice for stealthing.
In spvp there is 4s revealed. X/d is dead in spvp because of that. 4s is an eternity if you are not standing in a black powder.
In wvw, sorry to say, but stacking stealth is needed. People cry so much about heart seeker spam over black powder. How is that any different from x/d spamming cnd off creatures?
Noobs will be noobs. In wvw d/p is king. If you aren’t running it you are stubborn and gimping yourself. In spvp you have 2 choices. D/p or s/d evasion build.
Way I see it, thief is locked into a small amount if builds simply because everything else has been nerfed into the ground. Thanks anet!
This.
D/P is very powerful play style. Downside to it is you trade a lot of your burst to achieve its max effectness. it a very strong scout play style awesome for being used to set up supply trap.
Downside is your more or less useless in PVP itself. the amount of trait you have to take to effectly use D/P heart seeker + black powder. lower your burst by to much to be useful. if you try to spec in to more burst over d/p you should just switch to D/D because you wont have the initiative cost to keep up with combo.
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3
The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
Except the high initiative cost and terrible damage. Better off to use sword 2 or dagger 2 to stay on a target. Only use for dancing dagger is to apply basi venom from range if you need to with a melee set
D/P is currently the strongest set. I’ll use it until they nerf it. Sorry but I prefer to play the strongest set available. I can’t see them nerfing it to D/D levels of uselessness though. It just has the abilities that create the perfect synergy together. D/P is what all thief weapon sets should strive for, not hated on because the majority use it.
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
0.o
D/P users who are good use 1,2,3,4 and 5. If you don’t, you don’t understand it’s full potential.
That’s what I said
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
Sorry the init cost makes this skill worthless almost.
It’ll be better after next patch tho
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
Sorry the init cost makes this skill worthless almost.
It’ll be better after next patch tho
How do you know it’ll be better after next patch?
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
Sorry the init cost makes this skill worthless almost.
It’ll be better after next patch tho
How do you know it’ll be better after next patch?
Jinks knows all
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
Sorry the init cost makes this skill worthless almost.
It’ll be better after next patch tho
How do you know it’ll be better after next patch?
Jinks knows all
In other words you have no kittening idea, lol. :P
D/P users who are good use abilities 1-5.
S/D use 1, 2, 3, 5
D/D use 1, 2, 5
P/D use 1 5
P/P use 3The best weapon sets are known by all and just happen to be the most polished
Food for thought
4 on x/D is actually really good…it’s just that you only want to use it for cripple.
Nothing wrong with a ranged spammable cripple.
Sorry the init cost makes this skill worthless almost.
It’ll be better after next patch tho
How do you know it’ll be better after next patch?
Jinks knows all
In other words you have no kittening idea, lol. :P
You tears will flow.
I have prepared myself for what is coming…..I hope
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