Guild Wars 2

Is changing it from 2s to 4s good enough? Or do you have other thoughts? I personally think we might as well get the old Feline Grace back as a new Grandmaster or Master trait to choose from.
PS: Karl, please change potent poison.

The added vigor is good. Means they saw that FG was lack luster. I do think successful dodges should give a little something extra, though. -cough-Superspeed-cough-

Woohoo….. still lackluster though. Dex is right, at least they’re recognizing how underwhelming it is.

Acro is dead, without the dodges u cant play the build effectivly.
And giving a 2 second more vigor as solution is RLY poor play..
I rly hope u guyz at Anet come to senses before its too late.

They could have just gave the instant regen on successful evade not sure why they turned it into vigor.

I’ll say this here as well: even if they made Vigor last 300s with no ICD, it would still be a garbage trait in a garbage traitline.

It can never be good enough so long as it requires evade procs to function. I want to be able to just dodge and restore my energy, not have to time my dodge to hit exactly when an attack does, or even be in combat in the first place. Any changes they make without fixing this fundamental problem is just shuffling deck chairs.

Having played acro quite a bit since the changes, i was very excited to see this change. A lot of doomsayers will continue to whine about having to be more judicious with their dodges, and it is certainly true that acro is less rewarding still for a lot of set ups- but this is a good change. Thieves who have been learning to maximize acro since the overhaul should be overjoyed for this. Acro has a lot to love in it, and every little buff helps.

I think this a good change and a step in the right direction. That said other changes still warranted in this traitline in particular then in the length of the evades for various weaponsets.

Having played acro quite a bit since the changes, i was very excited to see this change. A lot of doomsayers will continue to whine about having to be more judicious with their dodges, and it is certainly true that acro is less rewarding still for a lot of set ups- but this is a good change. Thieves who have been learning to maximize acro since the overhaul should be overjoyed for this. Acro has a lot to love in it, and every little buff helps.

A buff is a buff, nobody is saying that they shouldn’t have done it, but neither should they consider Feline Grace “fixed” yet. It’s like if someone punctures your car tires, and then replaces them with those tiny doughnut spares. Well, thanks for that, but replace them with actual tires.

I don’t know, it’s like a “hey, let’s promote and reward active play” in an environment plagued with passive, fire and forget, instant, aoe, spammable everlasting and uber forgiving things that two shot you (or two seconds melt you).

What’d be awesome though, would be to tweak a kitten load of skills and traits on every class to work with this type of active play in mind.

But it’s not the case.

So, yea, meaningless. And what’s the point of vigorous recovery on top of it, also.
It’s pretty much like hihey says.

Its still way worse than old feline grace. The other on evade traits need a huge buff in acro too and the sd weapon set needs buff in general

hihey.1075:

I’ll say this here as well: even if they made Vigor last 300s with no ICD, it would still be a garbage trait in a garbage traitline.

Out of the all the comments I couldn’t agree more with this. Giving us Vigor back isn’t enough. The first FG was perfect as it is, Geez classes like Elementalist are seriously great examples of unskillful play (crit them and they get Vigor) but that’s not the problem here. The problem is that some people just wants to make this class harder and harder to master. Useless! Even if you’ve played this class long enough, some newbie can just get on a medi guard and go brain dead to crush you if you make ONE mistake. sigh what am I ranting? Bet I’m obviously not the first one stating this. Plus the same screw up is still working on 3 classes \o/ Why Anet?! Why?!!!

I like how tempest stole feline grace from thieves and signet of inspiration from mesmers… brilliant.

Anyways, I’ve said this before, vigor alone is not enough to keep a thief alive. They need the old feline grace especially in sword/dagger builds which was more dependent on sustain. Thieves had two forms of defense, blind spam/invis and evade/dodging. Evade/dodging was unnecessarily nerfed thus destroying a whole style of thief gameplay.

Karl! Change portent poison please!

A couple of things; first off any buff is a buff and I’ll take it. Gives me tons of vigor during fights especially when coupled with bountiful thief (which every thief has pretty much). However, its a little troublesome that it doesn’t really address what the complaint actually is about Feline Grace. It really should give us vigor (revert it back to 2s idc) along with some portion of endurance back on successful dodge. Doesn’t have to be a lot, but some would be very nice. Also with this update, anet completely has destroyed and make useless a major trait of ours. Who is going to take vigorous recovery (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Recovery) which is 5s of vigor on heal when you can simply just dodge 1 attack and get 4s of vigor? I get more vigor isn’t a bad thing, but it seems a little silly that a major trait that has at minimum a 12s cd (signet of malice) gives 5s while dodging 1 attack gives 4s of vigor on a 1s cd. Even random dodging during fights you’re going to get more benefit from the minor than the major and really ruins the major trait.

After the changes, the thief community is experiencing 3 levels of nerf with Feline Grace.
1) The vigor nerf, which of course affects every profession, but thieves rely on evading much more. So, endurance/vigor are of great importance.
2) The trait now requires successful dodges to activate.
3) The trait now gives vigor, not an immediate amount of endurance back. Disregarding the amount of endurance gained back from this trait, thieves have to let vigor take effect from its duration.
For me, reason #2 forces the thief to be more skillful with their dodges. Reason #1 seems fair, since all professions are affected. Reason #3: vigor is a boon and can get converted/stripped.
Of course, this is all my opinion. Some will disagree, but all (thieves) will experience these nerfs.

Thief really needs more than just vigor when other classes get 20% or 50% endurance regen flat which means that rangers get -from a minor trait- 180%endurance regen with vigor or 120without vigor(thief gets 175/100)+they get PROTECTION on the end of dodge instead of thieves getting less SWIFTNESS because its at the begginig of a dodge roll so 0.75s wasted and has the same duration as protection (2s)
Could cry for a day about other classes having more dodges and way better on dodge effects but

the point is acro -which ought to be about evades- should get feline grace revertd then the vigor on evade could move to Swindler’s Equilibrium as an addition. Upper hand is also really weak i’d suggest merging it with assassins reward but also changing assassins reward to heal on evade beforehand.

Ohoni.6057:

It can never be good enough so long as it requires evade procs to function. I want to be able to just dodge and restore my energy, not have to time my dodge to hit exactly when an attack does, or even be in combat in the first place. Any changes they make without fixing this fundamental problem is just shuffling deck chairs.

Translation: “I want brainless gameplay… I don’t want to actually THINK of skills I need to dodge, I just want to dodge! Anet what are you THINKING?”

Like, I’m all for rewarding more than 4s of vigor for successfully dodging an attack (ranger only gets 5s of vigor on successfully dodging btw , and it’s in a horrible trait line) , but this ….

Smh

blitzkrieg.2451:

Translation: “I want brainless gameplay… I don’t want to actually THINK of skills I need to dodge, I just want to dodge! Anet what are you THINKING?”

Like, I’m all for rewarding more than 4s of vigor for successfully dodging an attack (ranger only gets 5s of vigor on successfully dodging btw , and it’s in a horrible trait line) , but this ….

Smh

No, it’s more like … there’s an endless amount of situations where you can dodge an attack but it doesn’t count as a successful dodge. Dodge out of an AoE that’s just going down? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because you anticipated your opponent’s moves, rather than reacting to the attack? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because your opponent has telegraphed an attack with a large windup time? You don’t get rewarded.

This design really punishes thieves for actually playing smart. The design as it currently holds, forces you to be risky by always dodging at the last possible moment, just to make sure the game recognizes it as a successful dodge. If you play smart, by reading your opponents and how they telegraph their attacks, or by anticipating what they are about to do, and you dodge before the game recognizes it as a successful dodge (because the attack hasn’t begun yet), you are effectively punished because FG didn’t apply its vigor.

This is a terrible design.

Then, you add this on top of the other changes to FG (no instant endurance regen, only vigor, and not even a lot of it) and FG is just a terrible trait to take right now.

EDIT: Actually, most of the entire Acrobatics trait line is terrible now. Anet is effectively telling us to use stealth for survival or have fun dying a lot.

Now that is something you should be shaking your head at.

Ausfer.1853:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Translation: “I want brainless gameplay… I don’t want to actually THINK of skills I need to dodge, I just want to dodge! Anet what are you THINKING?”

Like, I’m all for rewarding more than 4s of vigor for successfully dodging an attack (ranger only gets 5s of vigor on successfully dodging btw , and it’s in a horrible trait line) , but this ….

Smh

No, it’s more like … there’s an endless amount of situations where you can dodge an attack but it doesn’t count as a successful dodge. Dodge out of an AoE that’s just going down? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because you anticipated your opponent’s moves, rather than reacting to the attack? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because your opponent has telegraphed an attack with a large windup time? You don’t get rewarded.

This design really punishes thieves for actually playing smart. The design as it currently holds, forces you to be risky by always dodging at the last possible moment, just to make sure the game recognizes it as a successful dodge. If you play smart, by reading your opponents and how they telegraph their attacks, or by anticipating what they are about to do, and you dodge before the game recognizes it as a successful dodge (because the attack hasn’t begun yet), you are effectively punished because FG didn’t apply its vigor.

This is a terrible design.

Then, you add this on top of the other changes to FG (no instant endurance regen, only vigor, and not even a lot of it) and FG is just a terrible trait to take right now.

Pretty much this.
If a Warrior is using Hammer F1 and you dodge out of the circle, you will not get any “evaded” message. But you still dodged it.

Ausfer.1853:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Translation: “I want brainless gameplay… I don’t want to actually THINK of skills I need to dodge, I just want to dodge! Anet what are you THINKING?”

Like, I’m all for rewarding more than 4s of vigor for successfully dodging an attack (ranger only gets 5s of vigor on successfully dodging btw , and it’s in a horrible trait line) , but this ….

Smh

No, it’s more like … there’s an endless amount of situations where you can dodge an attack but it doesn’t count as a successful dodge. Dodge out of an AoE that’s just going down? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because you anticipated your opponent’s moves, rather than reacting to the attack? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because your opponent has telegraphed an attack with a large windup time? You don’t get rewarded.

This design really punishes thieves for actually playing smart. The design as it currently holds, forces you to be risky by always dodging at the last possible moment, just to make sure the game recognizes it as a successful dodge. If you play smart, by reading your opponents and how they telegraph their attacks, or by anticipating what they are about to do, and you dodge before the game recognizes it as a successful dodge (because the attack hasn’t begun yet), you are effectively punished because FG didn’t apply its vigor.

This is a terrible design.

Then, you add this on top of the other changes to FG (no instant endurance regen, only vigor, and not even a lot of it) and FG is just a terrible trait to take right now.

EDIT: Actually, most of the entire Acrobatics trait line is terrible now. Anet is effectively telling us to use stealth for survival or have fun dying a lot.

Now that is something you should be shaking your head at.

Well if u dodge early because they have a long attack animation thats pretty much ur fault but also dont forget about the tons of instant casts that guardians mesmers and eles have the most of, just like stealth attacks you have to dodge them preemptively because u cant see them coming

Often you also dodge behind ppl resulting in making their skills fail but that doesnt show up as an evade either

Ausfer.1853:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Translation: “I want brainless gameplay… I don’t want to actually THINK of skills I need to dodge, I just want to dodge! Anet what are you THINKING?”

Like, I’m all for rewarding more than 4s of vigor for successfully dodging an attack (ranger only gets 5s of vigor on successfully dodging btw , and it’s in a horrible trait line) , but this ….

Smh

No, it’s more like … there’s an endless amount of situations where you can dodge an attack but it doesn’t count as a successful dodge. Dodge out of an AoE that’s just going down? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because you anticipated your opponent’s moves, rather than reacting to the attack? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because your opponent has telegraphed an attack with a large windup time? You don’t get rewarded.

This design really punishes thieves for actually playing smart. The design as it currently holds, forces you to be risky by always dodging at the last possible moment, just to make sure the game recognizes it as a successful dodge. If you play smart, by reading your opponents and how they telegraph their attacks, or by anticipating what they are about to do, and you dodge before the game recognizes it as a successful dodge (because the attack hasn’t begun yet), you are effectively punished because FG didn’t apply its vigor.

This is a terrible design.

Then, you add this on top of the other changes to FG (no instant endurance regen, only vigor, and not even a lot of it) and FG is just a terrible trait to take right now.

EDIT: Actually, most of the entire Acrobatics trait line is terrible now. Anet is effectively telling us to use stealth for survival or have fun dying a lot.

Now that is something you should be shaking your head at.

Yep, this is a pretty succinct list as to what’s wrong with the design of Feline Grace now.

So you’re saying anet glorifies by designing evade spam over rewarding successful evades because of the way they made a few aoe attacks?

If so, that’s pretty much the entire reason why s/d evade spam thief was cheese in the first place.

The problem isn’t feline grace, it’s that they don’t reward players for successfully dodging aoe attacks, based on your logic.

If they add evade succession to aoe attacks it should be fine, keep feline grace the way it is. That way you get rewarded for it.

There was never a problem with acrobatics. It was a strong build but even still not as strong as shadow arts. The nerf was unnecessary and now the risk thieves have to go through far outweighs the rewards. Acrobatics is weak and not worth the investment.

LOL@ all you feline grace/Acrobatics lovers.
Garbage trait in garbage tree is garbage.

Odyssey.2613:

LOL@ all you feline grace/Acrobatics lovers.
Garbage trait in garbage tree is garbage.

It is definitely redundant now. It seriously wasn’t before though. Show some respect will you? cough cough swine

Nephrite.6954:

Show some respect will you? cough cough swine

Lmao. Great way to talk to your guild mate.

Overall, the person who “re-designed” the trait line was completely drunk when he was working on it. cough cough the screw up who forgot the trait names during livestream. cough dipkitten….

Pot, meet kettle.

Anyways, getting off topic.
_________________________________________________________
Acro needs a total rework from the ground up, imo. It just isn’t salvageable in it’s current state. Hopefully, by someone new that isn’t currently on the unbalance team.

Odyssey.2613:

Nephrite.6954:

Show some respect will you? cough cough swine

Lmao. Great way to talk to your guild mate.

Overall, the person who “re-designed” the trait line was completely drunk when he was working on it. cough cough the screw up who forgot the trait names during livestream. cough dipkitten….

Pot, meet kettle.

Anyways, getting off topic.
_________________________________________________________
Acro needs a total rework from the ground up, imo. It just isn’t salvageable in it’s current state. Hopefully, by someone new that isn’t currently on the unbalance team.

Apologise ma8, truly. I was just really fed up with you know who NEVER taking his job serious thus leading to irrational nerfs. Pm me if you’re in EU Bro.

why are people still hung up about feline grace….

lets talk about the real problem for s/d acro builds…..really low damage…

Michael.9517:

why are people still hung up about feline grace….

lets talk about the real problem for s/d acro builds…..really low damage…

You compensate to low damage by having enough survivability to make you able to dish out more damage in the long run.
If Feline Grace hadn’t been nerfed, the damage would still be low but AT LEAST you would stay alive long enough to make your damage meaningful.

You want to have damage? Take CS.
You want to have survivability? Take SA, even with S/D it is not bad.
You want to hit like a wet noodle and have bad survivability, thus harming your team performance? Go Acrobatics.

Michael.9517:

why are people still hung up about feline grace….

lets talk about the real problem for s/d acro builds…..really low damage…

Hihey is right. There’s supposed to be a tradeoff in survivability for damage when you take acro, but it’s just not worth it. Go CS and the damage is great.

Maugetarr.6823:

Michael.9517:

why are people still hung up about feline grace….

lets talk about the real problem for s/d acro builds…..really low damage…

Hihey is right. There’s supposed to be a tradeoff in survivability for damage when you take acro, but it’s just not worth it. Go CS and the damage is great.

You know what I’d pay to watch? Karl play against other meta classes/builds on his newly “Re-designed Acrobatic Thief”. Bet he’d go condition out of desperation. Bet he can’t even go against Chieften or Svanir. I sincerely hope the devs read through this specific comment. Psh! Reward for dodging. Please. Dragon Hunter… Hah! Were you drunk bro?

lol u could leave these forums for years and nothing changes
same old same old

I remember when they released “assassins equilibrium” they said it was a skilled trait and u could counter a warrior hammer by coming out of stealth to gain stability ……

WHEN NO ONE IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD DO THAT..
if u r in stealth and u have time to see a hammer stun coming u would DODGE !

caveman.5840:

lol u could leave these forums for years and nothing changes
same old same old

I remember when they released “assassins equilibrium” they said it was a skilled trait and u could counter a warrior hammer by coming out of stealth to gain stability ……

WHEN NO ONE IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD DO THAT..
if u r in stealth and u have time to see a hammer stun coming u would DODGE !

AE’s stability was obviously too short. Most of us know these threads would be some where redundant but if any of the devs decide to read the thread then the first thing they’ll see are complaints about acro therefore increasing the chance of them doing something about it. I highly doubt they read but it’s definitely worth a shot. Much better than sending them a private message. Look at assassin’s reward, it still exist==

Nephrite.6954:

caveman.5840:

lol u could leave these forums for years and nothing changes
same old same old

I remember when they released “assassins equilibrium” they said it was a skilled trait and u could counter a warrior hammer by coming out of stealth to gain stability ……

WHEN NO ONE IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD DO THAT..
if u r in stealth and u have time to see a hammer stun coming u would DODGE !

AE’s stability was obviously too short. Most of us know these threads would be some where redundant but if any of the devs decide to read the thread then the first thing they’ll see are complaints about acro therefore increasing the chance of them doing something about it. I highly doubt they read but it’s definitely worth a shot. Much better than sending them a private message. Look at assassin’s reward, it still exist==

But last refuge is selectable now! They listen!

Ausfer.1853:

No, it’s more like … there’s an endless amount of situations where you can dodge an attack but it doesn’t count as a successful dodge. Dodge out of an AoE that’s just going down? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because you anticipated your opponent’s moves, rather than reacting to the attack? You don’t get rewarded. Dodge early because your opponent has telegraphed an attack with a large windup time? You don’t get rewarded.

This design really punishes thieves for actually playing smart. The design as it currently holds, forces you to be risky by always dodging at the last possible moment, just to make sure the game recognizes it as a successful dodge. If you play smart, by reading your opponents and how they telegraph their attacks, or by anticipating what they are about to do, and you dodge before the game recognizes it as a successful dodge (because the attack hasn’t begun yet), you are effectively punished because FG didn’t apply its vigor.

This is actually really interesting. For example, if you see an incoming Cluster Bomb(which is relatively slow moving) and evade out of the impact area it will hit before the projectile reaches you, you will not get an evade message although you basically just evaded the attack. You could say to just walk out of the area instead, but if you are crippled or chilled you might not move fast enough to be able to. In this case, evading “early” might get you out of the impact radius, but it wouldn’t register as a successful evade, thus not proccing a trait like Feline Grace.

Thief all around is in a frustrating place right now in pvp. Acro does not have enough dmg and dodges, d/p is OK if you play perfectly shadow shotting and head shotting everything but still has trash condi clear so if you get condi bombed you either die in the 3 seconds it takes for your condi clear to activate after you go into stealth or you are in stealth for 10+ seconds while your team rethinks having a thief on the team. while other classes are kitten ing around on their keyboard and winning because oh man the thief should have headshotted that one ability and now he is dead, or for acro man he dodged and didn’t take dmg the whole fight until he got hit by one thing becasue he ran out of endurance because every attack incomming is high impact to the thief (this however is not the case for the thief’s attacks on other classes) and now is dead. I guess i’m just uspet but its also the reason i love thief is because you have to try so much more god kitten hard and be better than every one else on this class to do the same ting as all the other classes are doing by just slamming their face into the keyboard as a side note if i hear another person say d/d ele takes skill i’m going to jump off a cliff :P

Akumetsu.8591:

Thief all around is in a frustrating place right now in pvp. Acro does not have enough dmg and dodges, d/p is OK if you play perfectly shadow shotting and head shotting everything but still has trash condi clear so if you get condi bombed you either die in the 3 seconds it takes for your condi clear to activate after you go into stealth or you are in stealth for 10+ seconds while your team rethinks having a thief on the team. while other classes are kitten ing around on their keyboard and winning because oh man the thief should have headshotted that one ability and now he is dead, or for acro man he dodged and didn’t take dmg the whole fight until he got hit by one thing becasue he ran out of endurance because every attack incomming is high impact to the thief (this however is not the case for the thief’s attacks on other classes) and now is dead. I guess i’m just uspet but its also the reason i love thief is because you have to try so much more god kitten hard and be better than every one else on this class to do the same ting as all the other classes are doing by just slamming their face into the keyboard as a side note if i hear another person say d/d ele takes skill i’m going to jump off a cliff :P

+1. I can’t really agree on the elementalist part though but I can say that if you’ve played the cele ele well then its truly more rewarding compared to thief.

they fixed the condi clear in stealth. its once again an instant clear + another after 3 seconds. so its actually pretty good again.

JaeleCt.3967:

they fixed the condi clear in stealth. its once again an instant clear + another after 3 seconds. so its actually pretty good again.

Isn’t the change a few weeks old?

JaeleCt.3967:

they fixed the condi clear in stealth. its once again an instant clear + another after 3 seconds. so its actually pretty good again.

This thread is about Feline Grace buddy.

Nephrite.6954:

JaeleCt.3967:

they fixed the condi clear in stealth. its once again an instant clear + another after 3 seconds. so its actually pretty good again.

This thread is about Feline Grace buddy.

hihey said this and he is completly right.
Even if you change the duration to 300 secs without internal cooldown FG will still be trash.

It’s hard to believe but it’s true. No matter how high you stack Vigor, you have 1 dodge more in a 20 secs timeframe than the meta d/p build iff wildstrike never hits.

They nerfed FG to the ground and buried acro with it, because it was the reason to spec into acro.
I’m still a bit salty that the devs have shown again that they have no idea what they are doing and refuses to play a thief (that’s why the BS bug could made it into the game) so they bury acro for the lols. But ok, time to move on.

apocom.3172:

Nephrite.6954:

JaeleCt.3967:

they fixed the condi clear in stealth. its once again an instant clear + another after 3 seconds. so its actually pretty good again.

This thread is about Feline Grace buddy.

hihey said this and he is completly right.
Even if you change the duration to 300 secs without internal cooldown FG will still be trash.

It’s hard to believe but it’s true. No matter how high you stack Vigor, you have 1 dodge more in a 20 secs timeframe than the meta d/p build iff wildstrike never hits.

They nerfed FG to the ground and buried acro with it, because it was the reason to spec into acro.
I’m still a bit salty that the devs have shown again that they have no idea what they are doing and refuses to play a thief (that’s why the BS bug could made it into the game) so they bury acro for the lols. But ok, time to move on.

Yeah, that’s pretty stupid. The assumptions made are also that the acro thief will have permanent vigor while the D/P will only have it for 10 seconds from bountiful theft.

Math (in case anyone is interested or the devs skim through):

8.75(endurance/sec) × 20 (sec) = 175 enduance

7.5(endurance/sec) × 10 (sec) + 5 (endurance/sec) × 10 (sec) = 125

175-125=50 or literally 1 dodge difference.

If the acro thief can’t maintain permanent vigor (1 steal + 3 successful evades) the gap becomes even smaller.

Another problem is that fights are short now. Old FG was helpful during both short and long fights. Now you won’t see a difference in the short fight and taking acro over CS cuts your damage in that short fight significantly. Additionally, if you take Signet of agility and signets of power, you can get 280 endurance in a 24 second timeframe (100 of that is on demand) versus the 210 from taking the acro line in a 24 second fight. If you really want more dodges and more damage simultaneously CS is the better choice now.

Acrobatics is ruined because someone looked at the line and decided to take the one trait that made the class considerable and gut it, on a class that requires active defense to exist for more than a couple of seconds.

It doesnt even count technical dodges.

Shame on whoever thought this was a good idea.

I understand and am partial to the allure of risk and reward, but in the game scene as it stands now where big damage is being dumped on people in a manner of seconds, there comes a point where there’s no point in risking the entire outcome of the match for a paltry, removable boon that only procs if the game recognizes you’ve evaded something, while ignoring any dodges made that still achieved a desired result without being counted as evades.

Do you want us to play Acro, Anet? If so, you need to fix both the weapons that synergize well with it and the fact that thieves have no defense that does not depend on stealth. Extra evades used to remedy this, and in retrospect maybe it was a bit too strong. But what was done to tone it down made it simply unattractive to anyone looking to play competitively.

Its fine for thief to be hard to play, but changes like this are insulting when we already have borderline useless weapon sets for general use. There needs to be work done on the area between [forgiving] and [practically impossible].

Across the entire board, on all classes, you are simultaneously heavily rewarding the playstyles that required less focus and response time, while at the same time removing all of the facets that made high complexity, high reward play possible and enticing.

Stop doing that.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Acrobatics is ruined because someone looked at the line and decided to take the one trait that made the class considerable and gut it, on a class that requires active defense to exist for more than a couple of seconds.

It doesnt even count technical dodges.

Shame on whoever thought this was a good idea.

I understand and am partial to the allure of risk and reward, but in the game scene as it stands now where big damage is being dumped on people in a manner of seconds, there comes a point where there’s no point in risking the entire outcome of the match for a paltry, removable boon that only procs if the game recognizes you’ve evaded something, while ignoring any dodges made that still achieved a desired result without being counted as evades.

Do you want us to play Acro, Anet? If so, you need to fix both the weapons that synergize well with it and the fact that thieves have no defense that does not depend on stealth. Extra evades used to remedy this, and in retrospect maybe it was a bit too strong. But what was done to tone it down made it simply unattractive to anyone looking to play competitively.

Its fine for thief to be hard to play, but changes like this are insulting when we already have borderline useless weapon sets for general use. There needs to be work done on the area between [forgiving] and [practically impossible].

Across the entire board, on all classes, you are simultaneously heavily rewarding the playstyles that required less focus and response time, while at the same time removing all of the facets that made high complexity, high reward play possible and enticing.

Stop doing that.

You see this Karl?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Extra evades used to remedy this, and in retrospect maybe it was a bit too strong.

Too strong in which circumstances?
Prior to the patch, 60206 D/P with Vamp runes was used by every thief in any sPvP match basically, even Sizer switched.
In 1v1s, the trait that carried thieves was Shadow Rejuvenation (hence why it is still banned in the Angz 1v1 Server [in EU]).
Feline Grace was a strong trait, and certain specs really struggled against it (Shatter Mesmers and Warriors mostly). But that’s it.
Even if they reverted Feline Grace to its former version, 60606 D/P would still be the go-to choice for sPvP due to how strong Blinding Powder & Shadow Refuge are, when traited with SA, in a teamfight.

hihey.1075:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Extra evades used to remedy this, and in retrospect maybe it was a bit too strong.

Too strong in which circumstances?
Prior to the patch, 60206 D/P with Vamp runes was used by every thief in any sPvP match basically, even Sizer switched.
In 1v1s, the trait that carried thieves was Shadow Rejuvenation (hence why it is still banned in the Angz 1v1 Server [in EU]).
Feline Grace was a strong trait, and certain specs really struggled against it (Shatter Mesmers and Warriors mostly). But that’s it.
Even if they reverted Feline Grace to its former version, 60606 D/P would still be the go-to choice for sPvP due to how strong Blinding Powder & Shadow Refuge are, when traited with SA, in a teamfight.

+1 This.