The lower you initiative, the slower it regenerates
Regenerating initiative on a curve isn’t necessarily a bad idea, but initiative management itself is such a departure from every other profession’s mechanics that perhaps it is best to keep it relatively simple.
No thanks, thief is already impotent after using their ini, and unlike other classes they can’t swap weapons to continue doing workable DPS. If anything Thieves tshould have faster ini regen to match the ability of other classes who can switch weapons and pretty much constantly fire off skills. But I would settle for mere faster ini regen out of combat the way health does.
People finally have to see Initative as what it is,
a global Cool Down for all weapon skills on both weapon sets.
It’s not some super complicated resource, or even a free ticket to use every ability whenever you want without any risk or downfall.
When any other class uses one ability, that one ability goes on CD.
When the Thief uses one ability, all abilities go “a little bit” on CD.
If any other class uses a few abilities (~5) all their skills are on CD (but they can weapon swap, using 5 more skills).
If the Thief uses a few abilities (2-4) all their skills are on CD, period (but generally for a shorter time).
It’s not as much of a “departure from every other profession” as most seem to believe.
And btw, if any class is spammy, then it’s the Warrior, Guardian, Necromancer, Ranger, Mesmer, Engeneer and most of all, Elementalist.
Thief is the class with the lowest amount of possible abilities being pumped out in a few second window.
Sure, they can “spam” one button 2-5 times (not really a difference to “spamming” 1-5), but thats generally not effective, and “countered” by clicking the dodge button one time.
I am aware of Initiative being slightly more complicated than how i just stated, but in a “good” way. It creates more options and actual choices (and therefore a higher skillcap, even if the noobs try to bring that down with "hep kitten just spam what you have, which is actually exactly what all other classes do).
It’s not broken, nor does it need a change.
People just have to finally realize how the Thief works, and the QQ would disappear.
But we are talking about a world where humans would be intelligent here.
/E:
The Idea of holding the Resource on a high level for more effectiveness is already in the game btw.
If you have at least 25 Points in Critical Strikes, you get a trait which increses your dmg by 10 % if your Initiative is over 6 (50 %, untraited).
Thats what i use, and it’s actually quite a interesting mechanic.
But i don’t think it has to be emphasised even further, by crippling the Thief with a lower Initiative regen, and therefore higher cooldowns.
Even more so since the Thief uses up already 50 % of his resource pool by just using a skill like CnD.
(edited by Asum.4960)
It’s not as much of a “departure from every other profession” as most seem to believe.
It absolutely is, mostly due to things like initiative regen traits/skills allowing you to effectively manipulate cooldowns, rewards for having X initiative, etc. Just because it is somewhat analogous to how other professions work doesn’t mean that it isn’t a massive change to how the game is played.
You seem to have taken the OP’s suggestion as a nerf request, but it could just as easily be an overall boost to thief effectiveness and skill cap. The question, however, is whether the thief needs an increase in skill cap.
As i pointed out, that would actually limit the choices a Thief can make, if he wants to be effective. That alone theoretically is a added choice in itself, but if that’s meant with skill cap, I’m not sure.
That initiative gives the player more control (like getting x initiative when doing y, instead of just CD reduced by X of other classes) isn’t anything i deny.
But overall it’s the same principle.
Rewards for having X Initiative (or a penality for having under X, point of view) is actually just what the OP suggested.
But again, it’s already in the game to a lesser extend – and i think it’s in a good spot the way it is.
For your last question, my answer would be no.
I think the Thief is probably the best (and most interesting) profession design wise.
If anything, the other classes need some work.
Elementalists and Engeneers are pretty interesting too with attunement swapping and kits.
But honetsly, the other classes don’t have really cool mechanics to offer (at least not to me).
And i further think that this is one of the, actually few, reasons for the Thief QQ.
Envy among misunderstanding of the Thief class and it’s mechanics.
Quite some time before the game came out, they had some really cool ideas for every class, and I’m really sad most of them didn’t made it in, or at leats got tuned down to a nearly generic level of play.
Except the Thieves Initiative system – which makes him the most fluid and dynamic class in the game.
Deathshroud turned out to be a pretty boring second health pool.
The weapon master with frequent access to weapon swapping and multiple weapon options (more than 2) got into a generic durable high dps fighter without anything to it.
Mesmer just got shatter 4 times. While it’s a decision since they all have different effects, it’s still 4 times shatter.
The ranger got his pet, ok, thats his thing. But it doesn’t really seems to be appealing or a interesting mechanic. Just that NPC fighting for you like hundred times before.
And the list goes on in classes, and for every class.
The only really innovative thing left is the Thief.
And guess what, people hate when they have to learn new things.
They just want their old and generic crap over and over again, and QQ that they don’t get new and cool stuff meanwhile.
The Thief is cool, new, innovative, interesting and complicated – pretty much everything little minds hate.
While i enjoy new ideas and theorycrafting alot, i think the Thief really needs it the fewest of all, and is power as design wise in a pretty good spot (except in alternative weapon choices).
People should stop complaining about how cool the Thief is (not really adressing the OP here, but i think thats clear by now), but putting their energy on making the other classes more interesting, so they can keep up with the Thief (not talking about power, but gameplay and design).
First I was up for a lot of rework for this profession.. But I become more and more sceptical. I mean lower intiative reg would force us to manage it carefully, but then they need to let us keep or burst, since we can’t spam those high numbers.
I can compared it to warriors or engineers, those got CD, our init, as ppl stated, are both Cds and GCD for both weapon set. So strong if you are good at manage it, weak if you spam HS.
Also n side-note to stealth nerf and other things, just be careful you not render it useless, or even worse take out the fun in it. We SHOULD be high on dmg and mobility, no doubt imo.
If they nerf us, they have to nerf other profession in the future, and this will make those even more lacklust… Nerfing is usually bad.
I’m sorry but I’m going to have to disagree with Asum’s entire sentiment regarding the Thief class.
It’s probably the spammiest, “user-friendly” and straight-forward class in game.
Yes, there is skill to playing a Thief and Stealth opens up quite a few tactical options but the ability and profession design itself is very straight-forward and not “deep”.
My suggestion would add such depth without fundamentally altering the play-style.
However if we disagree on such a fundamental level of how well the Thief class is designed, then I doubt we’ll have a very constructive debate.
Well there is a trait that makes you hit harder for each niative you got.. Maybe that could just be intergrated in the thief.. So thou you would still generate init fast, you would be punish in form of dmg for spamming too much:)
I’m sorry but I’m going to have to disagree with Asum’s entire sentiment regarding the Thief class.
It’s probably the spammiest, “user-friendly” and straight-forward class in game.
Then you are honestly playing your Thief fundamentally “wrong”, by which i mean, not even close to it’s fullest potential.
Whenever i see a Thief spamming anything, i nearly fall off my chair from laughing, which is the only case that kind of Thief may have a chance of even touching me.
What does a Staff Necro for example do? Pressing 2-5, then spamming 1. Thats it.
Thief is so much more about making decisions.
Do i keep initative for a Infiltrator’s Arrow to escape without killing the enemy i was chasing, or do i risk getting killed after jumping on him with a heartseeker (one, really, who spams that thing, it’s a gap closer), with no way to survive a long escape after taking the kill?
Do i go for a backstab on a enemy at 60 % health, taking half my initative and getting the kill for sure, or do i try to get him down to 25 % with autoattacks, fallowed by a HS, taking less of my initiative, but risking the use of a dancing dagger for the cripple if the enemy might dash/teleport away, so i can keep up with them, costing me more initative over all if it doesn’t work out how planned?
There is way more to the Thief than spamming one skill (worst. Thieves. ever), or pressing 1,2,3,4,5 like other classes do in most cases.
Not even dippin into Traits, which for the Thief actually make a huge difference in playstyle, instead of simple and boring flat CD reduces for more spammy spammy on other classes or the like.
this is not SWTOR, ppl stopped playing it for a reason. this is Guild Wars 2 a completely different game with different objectives, different play style, different mechanics, was PvE based and balanced, GW2 PvP based and balanced.
you can always go back to SWTOR it is about to be FT2.
So let every other class have a build they can burst with and not the thief? They were intended to be a dps burst class.
That’s actually a very good concept.
It would allow to give Thieves better sustained damage because they could use their skills more frequently without increasing the frequency a Thief can put out a heavy spike.
I don’t see how any Thief can be against this suggestion…
thieves have no ability cooldown for a reason, to allow hight bust dmg (which were not doing that well atm and after the next nerf even less) what you are suggesting is that after a thief bursts he is useless for a longer period of time than it currently is!
not to mention that the classes you mentioned from SWTOR had ability cooldowns and did not have weapon swamp. as i said before these games are both MMO’s but are NOTHING alike you cant compare them the way you are.