Guild Wars 2

There is still a lot of QQ around the community on thieves. To be honest I am also one of people who occasionally nerd rages about them. What is interesting, I dont actually think that thieves are OP. In fact I think thief is a middle of the pack class in terms of overall PvP contribution with the only aspect of the game where they are broken and probably a bit OP being WvW roaming.

Then again as I said, I keep getting thrown off balance after some encounters with thieves when I want to smash my proverbial keyboard. I think the reason of this is the fact that a thief class due to its specific can still make a winner out of a rather poor player. While in case of other professions getting any results with simple play will be much harder. Before you start sharpening your pitchforks, no I dont think or say that all or even most thieves are nabs. I encountered several skilled thieves during PvP and I acknowledged that in my in my post-fight chats with them. I can see when a thief is good and I know it. That being said, generally if a player performs rather poor, he is easily countered. Most of the times. This also applies to thieves in several cases. But due to how bursty and single-focused they sometimes are, they can still yeld results even with very minimal effort. For example I might be distracted by something for a moment, happen to have my stun breaker on cooldown or endurance depleted. What happens? BOOM! Backstab, heartseeker, heartseeker, heartseeker, shadow refuge, safestomp, win. This sort of playstyle requires very little effort and can still dominate even a very good player if you have a bit of luck. The same principle also applied to 100b warriors but in that case it was much more gimmicky and prone to failure if warrior missplaced the 100b wheres in case of the thief he can continue to spam and still end up victorious.

Thief class has some potential for a very spectacular and effective play. A bad thief player who only spams his 1,2,2,2,2 will probably not win a match. In fact he will not. He will also probably die often and be a liability for your team. Yet in the meantime he may still randomly gank some unsuspecting players (since that is what he tries to do most of time, at some point the “crits will align”). And those players may get really kittenhurt when they check the combat log and realize what the thief done to them (or rather, what he did not done). I know I do. I rage about eating a 8k HS even if we just stomped their team and won the match. This leads to hate on class which we can observe in community pretty much since the release of GW2. Meta and actual strenght of each profession will not change that. So as long as this issue prevails, I dont think that trying to prove that thief is not OP (becouse as I said, overall I dont think it is) will do any result. People will keep raging on thieves for exact reason I outlined above.

“What happens? BOOM! Backstab, heartseeker, heartseeker, heartseeker, shadow refuge, safestomp, win”

This are the main reasons, stealth and backstab.

Although BS only hit one target and many classes do more ae dmg and have a much better survivability, the people look always only on the dmg numbers from the thief and not on the rest of the class.

Without stealth or massive evade a thief wouldn’t had any chance to win a battle.

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

I think it has to do with the impression stealth based classes leave on others in every game that has them.

There’s just something about being attacked when you don’t see your opponent that rubs people the wrong way. I love playing thief/assassin/rogue classes, and the complaints are always the same – and I’m beginning to think it’s really just psychological.

You even said it yourself OP, most stealth +backstab thieves won’t a match. At best they’ll annoy a few people, get a few kills, but for the most part be really ineffective as every contested area is usually blanketed with AoE almost the entire time.

And one reason I think people hate them even more is due to the nature of travel in WvWvW. So much running. If you get killed while running from one place to catch up to the group or defend a point, it really is aggravating to be killed from stealth and have to do it over. If you’re a stealth + BS thief, why would you go with the zerg? Of course you’re going to roam and it’ll just kitten people off, but you do it because there’s no use for you anywhere else.

Awe.1096:

There is still a lot of QQ around the community on thieves.

The same principle also applied to 100b warriors but in that case it was much more gimmicky and prone to failure if warrior missplaced the 100b wheres in case of the thief he can continue to spam and still end up victorious.

Hundred blades is STILL far more gimmicky. See the newly buffed skull crack > hundred blades on a 10 second cd. Instant, no “tell” to look for. Have a stun break? Bet it doesn’t have a 10sec cd. This doesn’t even get into bull’s rush or any of the immobolize-HB combos. HB warriors have arguably the lowest skill cap of any class atm.

No, people aren’t kitten ed about 6-10k+ backstabs (well, the glass cannons are). What people are kitten ed about is the constant ability to restealth and do it all over again. For the rogue community, it means we can never really expect good survivability buffs because when combined with spamable stealth it will be OP. For the GW2 community, it means they have to fight a class that for the majority of a fight they can’t target. Spammable stealth is stupid (especially with access to backstab), and in-combat stealth should really be on longer cooldowns like in every other MMO ever.

Black Teagan.9215:

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

not sure if serious.

steal>Backstab, 6-9k, 3seconds of autos (3-5k), CND (3-5k), Backstab (6-9k). 18k-28k in 6 seconds. Followed by what will likely be HS spam x3, for 4k every 1sec for 3 sec in a row.

as a mostly s/p thief with medium crit damage, i still do more than 8k in 6 sec.

Awe.1096:

There is still a lot of QQ around the community on thieves. To be honest I am also one of people who occasionally nerd rages about them. What is interesting, I dont actually think that thieves are OP. In fact I think thief is a middle of the pack class in terms of overall PvP contribution with the only aspect of the game where they are broken and probably a bit OP being WvW roaming.

Then again as I said, I keep getting thrown off balance after some encounters with thieves when I want to smash my proverbial keyboard. I think the reason of this is the fact that a thief class due to its specific can still make a winner out of a rather poor player. While in case of other professions getting any results with simple play will be much harder. Before you start sharpening your pitchforks, no I dont think or say that all or even most thieves are nabs. I encountered several skilled thieves during PvP and I acknowledged that in my in my post-fight chats with them. I can see when a thief is good and I know it. That being said, generally if a player performs rather poor, he is easily countered. Most of the times. This also applies to thieves in several cases. But due to how bursty and single-focused they sometimes are, they can still yeld results even with very minimal effort. For example I might be distracted by something for a moment, happen to have my stun breaker on cooldown or endurance depleted. What happens? BOOM! Backstab, heartseeker, heartseeker, heartseeker, shadow refuge, safestomp, win. This sort of playstyle requires very little effort and can still dominate even a very good player if you have a bit of luck. The same principle also applied to 100b warriors but in that case it was much more gimmicky and prone to failure if warrior missplaced the 100b wheres in case of the thief he can continue to spam and still end up victorious.

Thief class has some potential for a very spectacular and effective play. A bad thief player who only spams his 1,2,2,2,2 will probably not win a match. In fact he will not. He will also probably die often and be a liability for your team. Yet in the meantime he may still randomly gank some unsuspecting players (since that is what he tries to do most of time, at some point the “crits will align”). And those players may get really kittenhurt when they check the combat log and realize what the thief done to them (or rather, what he did not done). I know I do. I rage about eating a 8k HS even if we just stomped their team and won the match. This leads to hate on class which we can observe in community pretty much since the release of GW2. Meta and actual strenght of each profession will not change that. So as long as this issue prevails, I dont think that trying to prove that thief is not OP (becouse as I said, overall I dont think it is) will do any result. People will keep raging on thieves for exact reason I outlined above.

Agree. But what do you suggest?

it is the permastealth,
the trolling of permastealth thief in keep telling everyone, u ll never catch me,
its the thief that spawn camps to gank u as u exit to catch up with a group.
its high dmg for a buttonspam.
its the speed, boons, cleansing and healing in stealth but mainly it’s because of the attitude of a lot of thieves. very often it happens that players got insulted by thieves after they got ganked.
ganking people out of permastealth, they didnt see u, so how can the counter that nr 2 spam?u are already stunned or locked down and lost around 40 percent of your health.
the insanely low cd’s for attacks that do soo much dmg

the ultimate trollclass. that’s why the hate

i think people are just very frustrated. in spvp its a little different, but in wvw…i think a lot of people ragequit at some point or gave up chasing that annoying thief in keep.

@BLack Teagan:mesmer 15k in 3 sec?!? are u level 2 and armorless? i have never ever seen a number like this before on my mesmer not even close,….not even if i was full glasscannon phantasm build!

Do people not realize you can still attack a thief even if they’re stealthed? If they are a backstab thief, you know EXACTLY where they’re gonna be when you see them stealth, so start swinging. Plant AoEs around you. Do SOMETHING besides just stand there complaining that thieves are OP because they are so predictable in their stealth/backstab routine. If you know what they’re going to do, stop them from doing it. That’s always been the name of the game in GW2

Pinny.9018:

Do people not realize you can still attack a thief even if they’re stealthed? If they are a backstab thief, you know EXACTLY where they’re gonna be when you see them stealth, so start swinging. Plant AoEs around you. Do SOMETHING besides just stand there complaining that thieves are OP because they are so predictable in their stealth/backstab routine. If you know what they’re going to do, stop them from doing it. That’s always been the name of the game in GW2

not everyone uses a sword and a lot of attacks require a target.some aoe dont work without target. and blindly swinging without seeing numbers,makes this even more a guessing game. when thief gets hit he should be revealed.

selan.8354:

Pinny.9018:

Do people not realize you can still attack a thief even if they’re stealthed? If they are a backstab thief, you know EXACTLY where they’re gonna be when you see them stealth, so start swinging. Plant AoEs around you. Do SOMETHING besides just stand there complaining that thieves are OP because they are so predictable in their stealth/backstab routine. If you know what they’re going to do, stop them from doing it. That’s always been the name of the game in GW2

not everyone uses a sword and a lot of attacks require a target.some aoe dont work without target. and blindly swinging without seeing numbers,makes this even more a guessing game. when thief gets hit he should be revealed.

You don’t need to see numbers, your #1 skill rotation will trigger. I’ve killed dozens of thieves while they’re in stealth with that alone, especially on my warrior with his OP sword auto attack.

Doggie.3184:

selan.8354:

Pinny.9018:

Do people not realize you can still attack a thief even if they’re stealthed? If they are a backstab thief, you know EXACTLY where they’re gonna be when you see them stealth, so start swinging. Plant AoEs around you. Do SOMETHING besides just stand there complaining that thieves are OP because they are so predictable in their stealth/backstab routine. If you know what they’re going to do, stop them from doing it. That’s always been the name of the game in GW2

not everyone uses a sword and a lot of attacks require a target.some aoe dont work without target. and blindly swinging without seeing numbers,makes this even more a guessing game. when thief gets hit he should be revealed.

You don’t need to see numbers, your #1 skill rotation will trigger. I’ve killed dozens of thieves while they’re in stealth with that alone, especially on my warrior with his OP sword auto attack.

mine wont hit without a target.scepter and staff requires a target

selan.8354:

Doggie.3184:

selan.8354:

Pinny.9018:

Do people not realize you can still attack a thief even if they’re stealthed? If they are a backstab thief, you know EXACTLY where they’re gonna be when you see them stealth, so start swinging. Plant AoEs around you. Do SOMETHING besides just stand there complaining that thieves are OP because they are so predictable in their stealth/backstab routine. If you know what they’re going to do, stop them from doing it. That’s always been the name of the game in GW2

not everyone uses a sword and a lot of attacks require a target.some aoe dont work without target. and blindly swinging without seeing numbers,makes this even more a guessing game. when thief gets hit he should be revealed.

You don’t need to see numbers, your #1 skill rotation will trigger. I’ve killed dozens of thieves while they’re in stealth with that alone, especially on my warrior with his OP sword auto attack.

mine wont hit without a target.scepter and staff requires a target

What class? Elementalist? o.O If you’re Necromancer you’re actually a heavy counter to Thief and shouldn’t be having a lot of trouble.

Raven.9603:

Awe.1096:

There is still a lot of QQ around the community on thieves.

The same principle also applied to 100b warriors but in that case it was much more gimmicky and prone to failure if warrior missplaced the 100b wheres in case of the thief he can continue to spam and still end up victorious.

Hundred blades is STILL far more gimmicky. See the newly buffed skull crack > hundred blades on a 10 second cd. Instant, no “tell” to look for. Have a stun break? Bet it doesn’t have a 10sec cd. This doesn’t even get into bull’s rush or any of the immobolize-HB combos. HB warriors have arguably the lowest skill cap of any class atm.

No, people aren’t kitten ed about 6-10k+ backstabs (well, the glass cannons are). What people are kitten ed about is the constant ability to restealth and do it all over again. For the rogue community, it means we can never really expect good survivability buffs because when combined with spamable stealth it will be OP. For the GW2 community, it means they have to fight a class that for the majority of a fight they can’t target. Spammable stealth is stupid (especially with access to backstab), and in-combat stealth should really be on longer cooldowns like in every other MMO ever.

First off no stealth.
Second full melee.
Third can not be spammed.
Fourth Stability is a pure counter.
Fifth stun breakers
Sixth defeated by range and condition overload if you play smart

Every class (for the most part) runs a rotation or some gimmick build that instagibs. The lowest skills caps have primarily to do with classes that can hit their near I win combo and do it safely. Prominent offenders are thief and mesmer but just about every class at one point or another had some kittenty build that does this. Fact is warrior is pretty easy counter play. So as simple as the skills are you have to work twice as hard to land things other classes can easily. that being said the cheese level in this game is insane but most builds with out heavy stealth or ports are just defeated or matched by just knowing the proper counter play .

IMHO its the mobility plus stealth. You should get one or the other but not both. Its the spamming. S/D is really guilty of this (btw lowest skill cap in the game is this without a doubt). Its the lack of counter play. Stealth is hard to counter hard to stop. Its the blinds. Honestly it is everything. Its just not a fun fight or one that is ever going to feel fair. The QQ has been going on for what 9 months now.

TheGuy.3568:

First off no stealth.
Second full melee.
Third can not be spammed.
Fourth Stability is a pure counter.
Fifth stun breakers
Sixth defeated by range and condition overload if you play smart….

IMHO its the mobility plus stealth. You should get one or the other but not both. Its the spamming. S/D is really guilty of this (btw lowest skill cap in the game is this without a doubt).

the odds that your enemy will have stability are very low and predictable by class. not a war/guard/ranger? probably good to insta-gib! stun breakers are not really a counter to a 10sec cd on skull crack. while condition overload is very much a warrior weakness, being kited is not (we live in the age of lemongrass, melandru and dogged march).

Of course it can be countered, the point was simply that it was still gimmicky and has a good chance of succeeding and instagibbing someone without much thought.

Never heard someone call s/d the lowest skill cap before, but i suppose there is a first time for everything.

@selan 15k against a glass cannon isnt that hard.

Cloak and Dagger hits for about 3,5k, mug hits for about 2k, then backstab for more 8k and another 1,5k from superior sigil of air proc. If it hasnt kille your enemy yet just throw in a heartseeker for another 5~7k. Since cloak and dagger and mug hit at the same time, you only need to move behind you enemy’s back to backstab and then do 1 heartseeker. Easily done in less than 3 seconds.

Of course, this only happens when:
1 – Both are full zerker and have no toughness
2 – Thief has used up all his utilities to gain a 19 might stacks
3 – Thief runs a 30/30/0/0/10 build for mug and perma fury
4 – all attacks were critical hits ( with food and fury on wvw it can go up to 80% crit chance )
4 – Your target doesn’t try to break stun, has no 25% hp auto defense (such as stealth, mini, stability, and so on) and doenst evade
5 – The thief doesnt runs perma stealth cheese, since you cant afford to put points in shadow arts, and also runs dagger/dagger. It could put a pistol on the off hand swap, but it is rare to do so, since it also wont be able to regain initiative fast enough to do perma stealth
6 – The thief has superior armor / weapons (full exotic / ascended )
7 – the enemy didnt had any protection boon on then (such as aegis, protection, block)

Raven.9603:

TheGuy.3568:

First off no stealth.
Second full melee.
Third can not be spammed.
Fourth Stability is a pure counter.
Fifth stun breakers
Sixth defeated by range and condition overload if you play smart….

IMHO its the mobility plus stealth. You should get one or the other but not both. Its the spamming. S/D is really guilty of this (btw lowest skill cap in the game is this without a doubt).

the odds that your enemy will have stability are very low and predictable by class. not a war/guard/ranger? probably good to insta-gib! stun breakers are not really a counter to a 10sec cd on skull crack. while condition overload is very much a warrior weakness, being kited is not (we live in the age of lemongrass, melandru and dogged march).

Of course it can be countered, the point was simply that it was still gimmicky and has a good chance of succeeding and instagibbing someone without much thought.

Never heard someone call s/d the lowest skill cap before, but i suppose there is a first time for everything.

I have had this discussion with the originator or at least one of them of this build. GS will give you some mobility but not the type you cannot be kited with. Considering your using this build you keep yourself out of the perma swiftness of warhorn and lyssa builds so anyone who has it can and will kite you. You lack the range CC to actually stop them for doing this. If you want an easy counter build is bomb engineer. If you close the gap your kittened is you stay ranged you get ticked down. Honestly if I see some one run this is switch to elixir X in one case I will just keep him blinded and pop out of it move and cc with rifle in another case if I get rampage its over he can’t stun me, out run me or out CC me.

So you understand depending on the build you can get upwards of 90% condition duration. Each percent of condition duration cancels out each percent of – condition duration. When I run 3 kits I usually do not care about melandru. My condition will land and proc. Even the most basic build has 30% duration for engineer.

All that hypothetical out of the way its WvW. the warrior simply doesn’t have enough mobility to actually pressure you unless you allow him to close the gap. GS alone wont do all the work you have to land the skull crack and quite frankly with blinds, CC and ranged it wont happen vs a player who knows the build.

It should also be noted due to the comment traits with the skull crack build the cd is 8 seconds that why you are likely getting caught by it.

SD spam 3 skills with 2 buttons to be effective. One skill dodges the other ports. Yes truly only a masterful hand can pull this off (sarcasm intended). It is one of the easiest builds in the game and much easier than any warrior build. Have you even played it?

I personally don’t play thief but you say repeaditly that bad thieves can just spam 2 and win. But at the same time spamming 2 is terrible. I found this quite funny actually. I find when a thief spams 2 alot of people don’t know what to do to escape it and even some decent players will go down to the heartseeker spam. It’s a skill that thieves have and they’re just utilizing what they have. Some builds dont have what’s needed to escape heartseeker after heartseeker so it’s not a skill matchup as much as being at a disadvantage.

Inverted.7439:

I personally don’t play thief but you say repeaditly that bad thieves can just spam 2 and win. But at the same time spamming 2 is terrible. I found this quite funny actually. I find when a thief spams 2 alot of people don’t know what to do to escape it and even some decent players will go down to the heartseeker spam. It’s a skill that thieves have and they’re just utilizing what they have. Some builds dont have what’s needed to escape heartseeker after heartseeker so it’s not a skill matchup as much as being at a disadvantage.

Can not spam 2 (Dagger main hand I am assuming) and win vs most other players. If you have already pulled off your initial burst combo including you CnD ->Backstab etc then yes its possible if you ate half their health with it. Just spamming it from the start of a fight to the end is a waist of initiative and wont net you good dps anyway.

Its really, really hard to kill someone by only spawning 2. I mean this!

Lets imagine a normal zerker thief, that has 12 initiative and no initiative regain bonus. Since each HS uses up 3 initiative, you can do at maximum 4 heartseekers. If your target is at full health, you deal at maximum about 2,5k dmg on a crit hit. Lets assume all attacks crit, so you do 7,5k dmg with your first 3 HS ( since you cant have less then 10k health, all attacks so far where in 100%-50% range of the heartseeker dmg ), and then the fourth one may hit for 3,8k, totaling 11,3k dmg.

If you try to dodge, you can evade 2 spammed heartseekers with only one dodge, so you can avoid 2,5k ~ 6,3k damage by simply rolling once. If you do it twice, then you can take no damage at all. You can also heal, block, aegis, protection or anything else to avoid some damage. Basically if you are not afk than you should not die by a heartseeker spam.

And what happens aftwerward is that the thief has burned his entire initiave and has became a sitting duck. He will have to auto attack you to death with a 130 dagger range, which is really easy to kite and counter.

Now, if you are at less than 50% health, has burned all your dodges, blocks and heals and see a thief approaching with full initiative, than you should die. This is how it is supposed to happen.

Thief class isn’t OP, but it’s annoying in wvw. I play both Mesmer and Thief classes in wvw/pvp. The reason I picked thief because my mesmer couldn’t kill some thieves easily/efficiently. I tried to learn that class. I tried several wvw roam builds in wvw; I could feel the opponents’ anger, bicoz they couldn’t catch me; I feel I am like an evil and excited every moment i troll a bunch of ppl around,,, ‘nana-nana-naana, you can never catch me!’; it indeed makes me feel ‘Jezz, I am so talented!’; i am actually no pro at thief class in tpvp as i’ve only picked this class up for few weeks only.

I would guarantee it will be massive reduce of whining on thief class if all classes have stealth access. imo, thief is an easymode in wvw, hard mode in tpvp.

Black Teagan.9215:

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

The reason people complain about thieves is because they have that damage on top of the massive mobility, spamming stealth, control of fights, and the ability to reset the fight when ever they want to.

Stealthy + high damage characters look overpower to new players (until they learn how fight them), happens on almost all RPG games.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Black Teagan.9215:

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

The reason people complain about thieves is because they have that damage on top of the massive mobility, spamming stealth, control of fights, and the ability to reset the fight when ever they want to.

exactly.

Doggie.3184:

selan.8354:

Doggie.3184:

selan.8354:

Pinny.9018:

Do people not realize you can still attack a thief even if they’re stealthed? If they are a backstab thief, you know EXACTLY where they’re gonna be when you see them stealth, so start swinging. Plant AoEs around you. Do SOMETHING besides just stand there complaining that thieves are OP because they are so predictable in their stealth/backstab routine. If you know what they’re going to do, stop them from doing it. That’s always been the name of the game in GW2

not everyone uses a sword and a lot of attacks require a target.some aoe dont work without target. and blindly swinging without seeing numbers,makes this even more a guessing game. when thief gets hit he should be revealed.

You don’t need to see numbers, your #1 skill rotation will trigger. I’ve killed dozens of thieves while they’re in stealth with that alone, especially on my warrior with his OP sword auto attack.

mine wont hit without a target.scepter and staff requires a target

What class? Elementalist? o.O If you’re Necromancer you’re actually a heavy counter to Thief and shouldn’t be having a lot of trouble.

mesmer..scepter/focus and staff. both dont hit without target, the block protects though from an initial backstab if i am aware of a thiefes presence. ele’s and necros have great aoe’s that will protect them. before major confusion nerf, i was able to put nullfield or veil down and the more the thief spammed the more he would hurt himself, but now it only tickles him.

i think though, that the major issue is permastealth, not necessarily the dmg as i can evade them if i see he thief. everything else is a guessing game.

It’s just like the warrior:
– low skill floor; anyone can learn it.
– high skill ceiling; it takes a lot of dedication and practice to be the best.

People complain about warriors in PvE. Thieves are the WvW/PvP equivalent.

XxNoahxX.7813:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Black Teagan.9215:

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

The reason people complain about thieves is because they have that damage on top of the massive mobility, spamming stealth, control of fights, and the ability to reset the fight when ever they want to.

exactly.

Thats it’s for what this class is build, but everybody can counter this easily and kill him with one attack.

My post refers also on the pve, where 4 of these 5 things doesnt work

And hate for the thief exist there too.

Viking Jorun.5413:

It’s just like the warrior:
– low skill floor; anyone can learn it.
– high skill ceiling; it takes a lot of dedication and practice to be the best.

People complain about warriors in PvE. Thieves are the WvW/PvP equivalent.

no PvPer would complain thief in PVP. 4s reveal timer, no food buff, shadow troll build is nearly useless to tournaments. maybe, the blind aoe spam might give the team a bit help. Shadow build only takes the disadvantage in the current PVP conquest mode. It might be good and benefits the team when death match mode comes out in the future, not now.
when the game doesnt give credits to a stealth master going stealth, what else this master can do…
i am not saying other builds in tpvp aren’t viable but just isn’t as efficient as other classes for holding/caping the points.
the latest tier list-https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30/first#post1467369

The Game Slayer.7632:

Black Teagan.9215:

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

The reason people complain about thieves is because they have that damage on top of the massive mobility, spamming stealth, control of fights, and the ability to reset the fight when ever they want to.

and the reason thieves hate every other class is bc they can afford mistakes. we cant afford even 1 or is game over

XxNoahxX.7813:

Viking Jorun.5413:

It’s just like the warrior:
– low skill floor; anyone can learn it.
– high skill ceiling; it takes a lot of dedication and practice to be the best.

People complain about warriors in PvE. Thieves are the WvW/PvP equivalent.

no PvPer would complain thief in PVP. 4s reveal timer, no food buff, shadow troll build is nearly useless to tournaments. maybe, the blind aoe spam might give the team a bit help. Shadow build only takes the disadvantage in the current PVP conquest mode. It might be good and benefits the team when death match mode comes out in the future, not now.
when the game doesnt give credits to a stealth master going stealth, what else this master can do…
i am not saying other builds in tpvp aren’t viable but just isn’t as efficient as other classes for holding/caping the points.
the latest tier list-https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30/first#post1467369

noah really has it right on the money here. thieves are annoying if u try fine them 1 v 1. but fortunate for not thief classes ….the game has no benefit in any way playing 1 v 1. at all. and those builds dont help scores…or teams win or anything. they are just fun. and fun doesnt mean op.

Black Teagan.9215:

XxNoahxX.7813:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Black Teagan.9215:

Its funny that all cry about the thief with his singeletarget dmg of around 8k points every 6 secs, but ignore it that mesmer or engineers e.g can hit you (and till 4 more) with 15k dmg or more within 3 seconds.

The reason people complain about thieves is because they have that damage on top of the massive mobility, spamming stealth, control of fights, and the ability to reset the fight when ever they want to.

exactly.

Thats it’s for what this class is build, but everybody can counter this easily and kill him with one attack.

My post refers also on the pve, where 4 of these 5 things doesnt work

And hate for the thief exist there too.

mate, i feel you. Thief class only shines when it’s roaming in wvw. I am speaking on a neutral stand. i hardly see any good thief player in dungeons or high level FoTM (38+). in tPvP, i have mentioned the earlier reply, Thief class is on a slightly better position than warrior.

I spent around 200g + close 100 laurels in gearing my thief up for the best Troll experience in wvw (sorry for the rabbits). i do like the feel when i troll ppl around into the death. I said that, i am enjoying… however, i also understand the downed players are not someone un-skilled but they just dont have clue where i am and they waste their skill CD/utilities to escape or chase me by guessing; I just need to CnD any red/yellow NPC’s to keep myself invisible.. too easy… no pressure… if i do get some pressure, i just run away, i have too many jail break cards- blind powder, shadow step, short bow#5… too easy… no one can really catch me if i dont want the fight. well, it’s wvw, the entire field is painted by blood. you dont want to be downed from BS, you better stay with zerg. I dont tell the whiners to go L2P. You + all your 4 party mates just couldn’t kill a good shadow thief, seriously. (again, i am still way far to reach the ‘good’ level)

I spent months to get a good level of confidence being a mesmer roamer in wvw; I spent less than 2 weeks to have superior confidence being a thief roamer in wvw.
or, just because i am born as a thief?!

People don’t like thieves because they try to run berserker or half berserkers items in wvw and qq when a full berserker thief hits them for 10k+. Wvw stats and foods just make everything over the top. We gain such high offense between the bloodlust and food and stats compared to spvp. Thieves are perfectly fine and balanced in spvp. Wvw is just different. People are meant to die quickly there because its. 100 vs 100 not 8v8. Thief can’t Zerg for anything. Worst zerging class in game. They are only good at dropping bodies in small skirmishes. Everyday, some noob wants to take that away from them. If u ask me thieves need buffs not nerfs in wvw because its supposed to be about zerging and they are hands down the worst class at it. In spvp 4s reveal could go back to 3.

in my opinion, thief class needs more nerfs!
this will only promote more skill play!

DanH.5879:

in my opinion, thief class needs more nerfs!
this will only promote more skill play!

Yes! Rotation = skills! :D

People don’t like thieves because the way Stealth is designed in this game, You can keep telling yourself its because they run berserkers, they’re bad, whatever…Stealth in this game is silly.

The Ability to stealth in any game is always powerful, Being able to do it over and over in combat really kitten es people off…People get angry that they dodge all the thieves burst and what not, do some damage to thief and boom, He’s gone…few seconds later he repops with full health and you go again, and you do this over and over again….If you get him low, boom vanishes again..

Oh wait, misses his stealth? Don’t worry he’s got teleports…

Stealth is a very powerful ability, The ease at which it is granted to the Thief is pretty silly.

The original reason of them having it (not having perma stealth) also doesn’t apply anymore as well, Since you can perma stealth all day long on a D/P Thief while still maintain large amounts of burst, and not having to worry about people dodging your C/D

Anyway, don’t kid yourself on stealth, It should of never been un-nerfed in WvW..

It’s just unfair to say nerf this or nerf that one or two main skills for thief class. I agree with Xsorus at the point of stealth is an advanced skill in game or even the most strategic technology in the modern warfare. You blind you dead, how simple is that. Guess almost ppl played C&C Red Alet; that very high cost commando has the skills of stealth, 1 shot 1kill sniper rifle and bomb which is used for demolishing any enemy base constructions. That dude was absolutely the one of most popular ‘weapon’ picked. So no one can see and get close to the mad commando? The answer is No. The Westwood( not EA yet at that time) veteran devs brought up the Shepard military Dogs which is low cost and the best anti-stealth mechanism in the game. It’s something balancing the game. Or simply give every class the access to Stealth, but not as good as thief classes. Look the very recent change to ranger long bow skill, that is a great step up in my opinion. Meanwhile, I hope Anet could provide thief class something more useful for the team/zerg/tpvp. Your gonna give something else to be good at for the thieves.

Even if you replace stealth with evades people will still QQ because Thief is a glass cannon class that is hard to hit.

Major Kaldash.3542:

Even if you replace stealth with evades people will still QQ because Thief is a glass cannon class that is hard to hit.

i highly doubt it. Stealth can’t be replaced. it’s a huge work for Anet.

in the real life, will anyone of you fight a Kungfu master when your eyes are covered?? after ur beaten, the Kungfu master says- Noob, L2P! what do yo feel? do you feel get trolled? absolutely Yes, I would say. the condition engi players believe they are good skilled people. Bull crap.. that’s because your class has good AOE skills can spam around. this game isn’t like EVE, it’s a simple casual game for every age 15+.

as I said earlier, i have invest too much on my thief. i dont want my gold, laurel and time wasted. I hope Anet dont nerf this class but bring up some change to other classes. i feel my thief is very less useful comparing to my mesmer and guard in pvp matches… i need my thief to be more useful for the team.

XxNoahxX.7813:

It’s just unfair to say nerf this or nerf that one or two main skills for thief class. I agree with Xsorus at the point of stealth is an advanced skill in game or even the most strategic technology in the modern warfare. You blind you dead, how simple is that. Guess almost ppl played C&C Red Alet; that very high cost commando has the skills of stealth, 1 shot 1kill sniper rifle and bomb which is used for demolishing any enemy base constructions. That dude was absolutely the one of most popular ‘weapon’ picked. So no one can see and get close to the mad commando? The answer is No. The Westwood( not EA yet at that time) veteran devs brought up the Shepard military Dogs which is low cost and the best anti-stealth mechanism in the game. It’s something balancing the game. Or simply give every class the access to Stealth, but not as good as thief classes. Look the very recent change to ranger long bow skill, that is a great step up in my opinion. Meanwhile, I hope Anet could provide thief class something more useful for the team/zerg/tpvp. Your gonna give something else to be good at for the thieves.

i agree. thieves are ment to be fast and deadly, so high dmg and mobility are important, but combining this with stealth like that,creates a problem. the whole mechanic of stealth is broken, but simply nerfing it to the ground will be too harsh, the class does need heavy rework.

XxNoahxX.7813:

Major Kaldash.3542:

Even if you replace stealth with evades people will still QQ because Thief is a glass cannon class that is hard to hit.

i highly doubt it. Stealth can’t be replaced. it’s a huge work for Anet.

I never said they should or would just that people hate Thieves because they have many active defenses and high damage. Not saying Thief is Overpowered or anything just saying people just want to hate class that can’t be killed easily but kill fast.

Well after typing that I think it’s also people hate quick and short fights which is what the thief will give you even if you win or lose.

Major Kaldash.3542:

I never said they should or would just that people hate Thieves because they have many active defenses and high damage. Not saying Thief is Overpowered or anything just saying people just want to hate class that can’t be killed easily but kill fast.

Well after typing that I think it’s also people hate quick and short fights which is what the thief will give you even if you win or lose.

i dont think ppl have huge problems on getting ganked by 2hits from thief. that’s simply their gearing problem. if you wear full set of zerker, you expect to be killed by 2 big hits. if your stunned, a PVE warrior can HB you down. the dmg output is way over than thief’s backstab. i haven’t seen any ppl complained warrior HB is OP in wvw or pvp. have you?

Thief are absolutely not OP and itself doesnt deserved a nerf but requires a buff at some aspects. the balance between Stealth and Anti-stealth needs to be introduced.

More Anti Stealth needs to be introduced to the game, Its like zerging, has to many benefits, very few if any negatives (in this game, the only negative for stealth is in this game is the ability to not capture a point)

Xsorus.2507:

More Anti Stealth needs to be introduced to the game, Its like zerging, has to many benefits, very few if any negatives (in this game, the only negative for stealth is in this game is the ability to not capture a point)

Or they could make it they way every other successful MMO has done stealth: Make it permanant, tie in-combat re-stealthing to long, limited cooldowns.

Want to double backstab? Well its going to cost you your only vanish, which will limit your ability to escape. From there, they could actually improve the class to make it less glassy since it will be spending more time “in the fight.”

But, Anet probably would rather do stealth wrong and be unique and different than do stealth right and be just like everyone else. kitten you Hipster-Anet!

Raven.9603:

Xsorus.2507:

More Anti Stealth needs to be introduced to the game, Its like zerging, has to many benefits, very few if any negatives (in this game, the only negative for stealth is in this game is the ability to not capture a point)

Or they could make it they way every other successful MMO has done stealth: Make it permanant, tie in-combat re-stealthing to long, limited cooldowns.

Want to double backstab? Well its going to cost you your only vanish, which will limit your ability to escape. From there, they could actually improve the class to make it less glassy since it will be spending more time “in the fight.”

But, Anet probably would rather do stealth wrong and be unique and different than do stealth right and be just like everyone else. kitten you Hipster-Anet!

I’d actually have no problem with that..But I doubt Anet would redesign the class for that.

Though world vs world would end up with giant stealth zergs i imagine.

Reasons for hate: Perma stealth and general slipperyness (ie able to escape a losing battle better than most classes).

This has gone unchanged for a number of balancing patches and other areas where the thief is weak (non stealth combat and group combat) have also been left unaddressed.

The conclusion?

Working as intended.

I’d happily lose perma stealth in return for some buffs to s/x, venoms and a p/p rework. Won’t happen though.

shadowraith.9124:

Reasons for hate: Perma stealth and general slipperyness (ie able to escape a losing battle better than most classes).

This has gone unchanged for a number of balancing patches and other areas where the thief is weak (non stealth combat and group combat) have also been left unaddressed.

The conclusion?

Working as intended.

I’d happily lose perma stealth in return for some buffs to s/x, venoms and a p/p rework. Won’t happen though.

Any step in reducing one of thieves tyranny: Perma-Stealth, would be gladly welcomed.

But Unfortunately,

As long Arena net support it

It won’t ever happen.

The reason for the hate is that they do not fit into the class system. Everyone is bound by cooldowns so they must select appropriate times to use an ability or waste the skill; thieves have no such limitation (initiative simply is not a good enough limiting system); they can repetitively use the same skill best suited to the moment.

Teleport In, Teleport Out, Teleport In, Teleport Out, Teleport In, Teleport Out.
Boon steal, Boon steal, Boon steal.
Target drop Stealth, Blinded, Target drop Stealth, Blinded, Target drop Stealth.
Evade, Evade, Evade.

No other class can use the same ability several times in a row to suit the suitation like thieves. That’s why they’ll never be balanced.

I don’t think thieves are particularly powerful, I just thinking they’re $!%^&ing annoying.

Thiefs need a overhaul, in every aspect: Stealth, Evade, Steal(special in this), Dmg, Mobility and general in survivability.

Weak in WvW, much weaker in PvE and not strong enought agains kleriker-boons -bunker Gaurdians in pvp.

But I dont think the should change the Inisystem , its has to much potential.

I can’t possibly be the only one to hate Thieves only for their behavior and visual aspects.

so, they are spamming skills (hs/backstab etc.) and perma stealth and have best evasion ?!?