Guild Wars 2

XII.9401:

Rezzing while stealthed: I can’t even see the person I want to stomp. So if my AOE CC -assuming I have one- is down or I don’t have one like the majority of the classes I wait for the thief to rez him? What kinda crap is that where the downed target disappears?

With a warrior?

1. You know exactly where the downed guy is.
2. Stand there and use Hundred Blades or any other big-damage melee attack.
3. Two downed guys for the price of one.

Pestilence.3184:

dont forget the ability to stealth finish a player in a downed state that goes for ele mist form finishers too.

Mist Form makes you invulnerable. Stealth does not. As has been said here repeatedly, there’s very little I get from stealth that I don’t get from just blinding you (in fact, as a thief I prefer to use blindness over stealth, since I can instantly pop it during the stomp animation and it stops guardians, too). Or using stability, if I am playing a class with easy access to stability.

XII.9401:

I keep posting them. Check my posts. Pics, Videos etc. I encourage everyone to post screenshots and videos displaying the broken mechanics.

And for a previous thief poster: Stop using the gear difference in wvw as a crutch for why thieves are imbalanced.

The main issues are entering and leaving fights -repeatedly- on a thieve’s terms. Have you seen a warrior rush a group of 3-4 people? How about A necro?A ranger? No..Know why? Because they don’t have a broken mechanic that lets them get away like a thief. Worst broken stealth mechanics in any game so far.

If your a glass cannon you should be punished if you miss your chance..not rewarded by allowing you to repeat the attempt repeatedly unhampered.

If the thief class was ok..then why do we see this thread 23 pages long and growing filled with complaints and no similar ones in any other class forums? Sheekitten’s a petition now..

Im willing to bet that there aren’t a ton of unique posters in this thread.

You can’t compare classes since its not based on 1v1. I see you didn’t include mesmers in your post cause you know they have stealth. Also rangers get a free escape from immoblize. Engi’s get stealth also.

Glass cannons do get punished rushing into a group of 5 people they kill 1 person and probably proceed to die. Its called blinds and aegis really if a thief comes in and downs 1 person among 5 then they didnt see that house from 900-1200 meters away. Or the puff of smoke or the big glowy heal that turns the thief invis. A bs is popped in stealth a thief isn’t perma stealthing if they are bs 5 people.

I have seen warriors jump in a group of 5+ people then proceed to block everything on their way out. I have seen necro get focused fire from like 10 people but since they have stability while in plague and take less damage they don’t die then as they exit plague they pop deathshroud for even less damage.

There are videos of necro’s running into a zerg applying conditions and gettng out. I can grab that if you like.

How can you all complain about a class on that classes forum thread, without even playing the class? Play a thief up to 80. Experience the PVE and PVP and then come back and make your “claims”. Honestly it takes 8 hours to level and 80 through crafting. If YOU think its OP roll a thief and record it and show us all how OP it is. For every one of those video’s we can point out a 100b warrior vid, a mesmer burst vid, ele survive vid ect. Such a bunch of babies… crying about this.

Thieves need to be nerfed, ASAP.

I’m tired of eating 20k Combos in a kitten bunker spec.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
That was in a full bunker spec with ~3000 Armor and through protection.

Mug needs to go.

Buff P/P for all I care (Yes it is bad), but this instagib kitten needs to go. This is not 2006 WoW, Comboing someone is dumb.

Hi,

I’m happy with my thief but there’s a couple things that i think don’t work well.

I play Dagger/Pistol and switch to Pistol/Dagger. I also have that trait that will stealth me when I steal.

Problem is that trait doesn’t work as it should be :

1) I steal.
2) that gets me into stealth
3) I auto unstealth right after

Why it doesn’t work the same as Cloak & Dagger is still a mystery to me…
(and no I shouldn’t have to have to shift-unclick the auto-attack and shift-reclick it after : that would be cluncky and is only a poor workaround)

The second thing is a trait I have that launches caltrops when I dodge :

1) I dodge
2) it launches caltrops in the air
3) I never get to see where they are on the ground so as to plan and fight around : no white circle on the ground

Shoogli.6185:

The second thing is a trait I have that launches caltrops when I dodge :

1) I dodge
2) it launches caltrops in the air
3) I never get to see where they are on the ground so as to plan and fight around : no white circle on the ground

There’s no indicator because they’re not an ongoing effect. Whoever is standing next to you when you dodge gets hit, and that’s it. Doesn’t work like the skill Caltrops (in fact, the animation is actually a bit wide — I recommend practicing a bit on the dummies in Heart of the Mists to get a feel for the real range of the dodge-caltrops).

ASP.8093:

There’s no indicator because they’re not an ongoing effect. Whoever is standing next to you when you dodge gets hit, and that’s it. Doesn’t work like the skill Caltrops (in fact, the animation is actually a bit wide — I recommend practicing a bit on the dummies in Heart of the Mists to get a feel for the real range of the dodge-caltrops).

I don’t get it ? You mean if I run away from a monster and dodge in front of me to put more distance between him and I then since he wasn’t next to me when I dodged then he won’t eventually run through my caltrops and be slowed ?

Why isn’t this class named ‘Assassin’? I have ~3000 toughness and still get hit for over 5k in heartseekers alone. Not a fan.

Pestilence.3184:

and in reply to the guy above asking for evidence he needs to scour you tube there’s plenty on there

Sure, I can find a bunch of terrible players combo’ing glass cannons, but none of them are low level alts that were rolled “just to prove how OP thieves are” like I see so many detractors claim.

XII.9401:

The main issues are entering and leaving fights -repeatedly- on a thieve’s terms.

Sounds like someone is having a hard time dodging C&D. We’re still there, ya know, it’s not that we’ve gained stability and invulnerability, but the way some people act, you’d think they’d thought we did.

Think about other builds like S/D that rely on stealth for utility rather than stupid damage. Nerfing stealth like the masses are calling for would completely destroy that build, and resort to a “1” spamming class on a hope and a prayer because god knows every other ability on our toolbar is worthless (sans Infiltrator’s Strike, but this again is a gap closing/utility ability rather than damage.)

Fix the obvious problems, first. Culling, check. Mug & C&D dropping players to below 50% for executioner bonus on BS, check. Heartseeker’s range of 450 that can be spammed multiple times after the combo for stupid damage if it somehow doesn’t initially drop their opponent, check.

Perma stealth thieves? Pistol number 5 and heartseeker combo?

Thraize.9608:

Perma stealth thieves? Pistol number 5 and heartseeker combo?

So you’re scared of someone that has to spend 9 initiative (3/4s of their entire pool) to enter stealth? It’s not very sustainable, and people that do that are rarely any good.

Xae.7204:

Thieves need to be nerfed, ASAP.

I’m tired of eating 20k Combos in a kitten bunker spec.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
That was in a full bunker spec with ~3000 Armor and through protection.

Mug needs to go.

Buff P/P for all I care (Yes it is bad), but this instagib kitten needs to go. This is not 2006 WoW, Comboing someone is dumb.

How about a 33k Kill shot , that has to go too?

Thraize.9608:

Perma stealth thieves? Pistol number 5 and heartseeker combo?

thieves dont have perma stealth, its a rendering issue that for some reason they STILL HAVENT FIXED

pistol number 5….black powder? it costs over half our initiative to use once and you can nullify it by moving out of the small stationary radius that is clearly marked…lol sorry you want to hundred blades me.

heartseeker combo? there is no combo, just heartseeker, and its not strong, i do more dps autoattacking the first 50% of the enemies hp.

fail is fail <3

Xae.7204:

Thieves need to be nerfed, ASAP.

I’m tired of eating 20k Combos in a kitten bunker spec.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
That was in a full bunker spec with ~3000 Armor and through protection.

Mug needs to go.

Buff P/P for all I care (Yes it is bad), but this instagib kitten needs to go. This is not 2006 WoW, Comboing someone is dumb.

I completely agree with this. I have been killed several times this weekend, taking over 20k damage in the standard steal-c&d-bs combo. Every piece of armor I have had toughness or vitality and I am speced into a defensive line. It is one thing to do that to someone in full zerker gear, but someone who invests into defense should never be downed almost instantly.

I tried to learn, I made a thief because people who play them said it helps you counter them. I only learned how ridiculous they are and how simply they are to play. There is no set up or skill required to do this combo, it is just a cheap I win combo.

purpleskies.3274:

Xae.7204:

Thieves need to be nerfed, ASAP.

I’m tired of eating 20k Combos in a kitten bunker spec.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
That was in a full bunker spec with ~3000 Armor and through protection.

Mug needs to go.

Buff P/P for all I care (Yes it is bad), but this instagib kitten needs to go. This is not 2006 WoW, Comboing someone is dumb.

I completely agree with this. I have been killed several times this weekend, taking over 20k damage in the standard steal-c&d-bs combo. Every piece of armor I have had toughness or vitality and I am speced into a defensive line. It is one thing to do that to someone in full zerker gear, but someone who invests into defense should never be downed almost instantly.

I tried to learn, I made a thief because people who play them said it helps you counter them. I only learned how ridiculous they are and how simply they are to play. There is no set up or skill required to do this combo, it is just a cheap I win combo.

QFE – I also made a thief and did the same thing. You do not even have to go crazy and pop every utility skill to get this sort of result. Fights can be over in a matter of a few seconds and if the thief is unsuccessful then they can just disappear. All this on top of the rendering bug – it is just frustrating.

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

XII.9401:

The main issues are entering and leaving fights -repeatedly- on a thieve’s terms. Have you seen a warrior rush a group of 3-4 people? How about A necro?A ranger? No..Know why? Because they don’t have a broken mechanic that lets them get away like a thief. Worst broken stealth mechanics in any game so far.

If your a glass cannon you should be punished if you miss your chance..not rewarded by allowing you to repeat the attempt repeatedly unhampered.
You should have only one chance to initiate the fight stealthed -and be thankful for that since no other class in the game can do that- and nothing else after it. If you don’t know how to use that already unfair advantage to win, then guess what..you were relying on broken mechanics to win.

Stealth is currently the biggest issue with the thief. Not because of how it works, but because of what you can do while it’s active.

The problem is that the only way to break stealth is by dealing damage. Here’s how you fix it:

• Stealth breaks on skill use (not damage)
• Stealth breaks on channel action (rez/stomp)
• Stealth breaks on dodge roll

The only thing any class should be able to do in stealth is move about. The moment you allow actions to be taken in stealth, you break the balance of the mechanic and give the stealthed player an undeserved upper-hand. You’re completely invisible. That’s enough of an advantage on its own.

We don’t have a thief problem, we have a stealth problem.

lay down blindpowder, heartseeker through it? resulting combo finisher is stealth. add traits where you gain initiative faster through stealth and gain health through stealth and there you go. high reward build with no risk involved.

There is no reward at all. Why are you getting all worked up about an ineffective gimmick?

Black powder + two heartseekers will empty your initiative. Traiting for faster init gain and additional stealthing utilities will push the boundaries of what is possible, but also limit the thief in what they can actually accomplish to nothing. When there is No Reward even Low Risk means it is LAME.

traiting into those leaves about 40 points for you to work with. unless you go 10/10/30/10/10. well lol.

i dont see how its ok that a class has a heal that stealths, an aoe stealth and another blind stealth and stealth from a weapon combo.

purpleskies.3274:

Xae.7204:

Thieves need to be nerfed, ASAP.

I’m tired of eating 20k Combos in a kitten bunker spec.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
That was in a full bunker spec with ~3000 Armor and through protection.

Mug needs to go.

Buff P/P for all I care (Yes it is bad), but this instagib kitten needs to go. This is not 2006 WoW, Comboing someone is dumb.

I completely agree with this. I have been killed several times this weekend, taking over 20k damage in the standard steal-c&d-bs combo. Every piece of armor I have had toughness or vitality and I am speced into a defensive line. It is one thing to do that to someone in full zerker gear, but someone who invests into defense should never be downed almost instantly.

I tried to learn, I made a thief because people who play them said it helps you counter them. I only learned how ridiculous they are and how simply they are to play. There is no set up or skill required to do this combo, it is just a cheap I win combo.

It isn’t a problem with thief class then.

If you are defensive spec’ed then maybe some buff to defensive spec’ed stuff should be in order.

I would have no problems with classes getting a buff that actually invested into defense, however I would not like to see them shrug all defensive investment and still get a buff to defense since they went glass.

NightyNight.1823:

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.

Thraize.9608:

lay down blindpowder, heartseeker through it? resulting combo finisher is stealth. add traits where you gain initiative faster through stealth and gain health through stealth and there you go. high reward build with no risk involved.

I really don’t see the problem with it, now that we can’t contest capture points with it anymore. It’s a low risk, even lower reward build.
Yes, we can permastealth by equipping a weak weapon set and doing nothing useful at all, and while people can still see where we are because of the combo field.

i see it as a problem. readily available get out of jail for free cards without having to spec for it. and i dont think doing that combo finisher roots you in place.

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.

Yes , it is story telling.Some numbers on some screenshot doesn’t prove a thing.I could sit in place , let myself killed by some random guy ,then show the numbers , ohh Warrior is so OP.Thieves are fine , no ones having problems in sPvP or tPvP whit them.All the complaints come from idiots whit 0 experience in WvW.

Just gonna pop in here and say that the sword is the best thing in WvW for thief. Yeah, backstab is all cute and all, but it’s not what really does the damage in the big fights that actually matter. Infiltrator’s strike is great for nailing someone trying to get away for just long enough for your team to wreck him and can come out of just no-where, and you can just get out of trouble too whenever you like. The basic chain is incredible damage and is crushing amounts of damage when used with haste for no initiative cost.

Also, I don’t quite understand why people complain about being hit with Cloak and Dagger and then Backstab, for that to work, they have to walk up to you while fully visible or use shadow shot or something, I can always dodge roll either the C&D and heal before the stab, or prevent the initial C&D even hitting. Back-powder or whatever. Then again, I’ve never been about to manage these crazy 9k backstabs either, maybe you have to hit an underlevelled player with white armour quality to do that, in which case the argument is more against the unbalanced nature of WvW scaling.

If the thief has an issue at all, it’s the fact that they’re way too mobile in combat and can pick and choose their targets with impunity and then escape easily. Even something as simple as a shadowstep trail from start to end of the jump would make chasing them down much easier.

hi,
I’ll go straight to the point

1) I recently discovered the wonders of S/D and I’m loving it! the only thing i do not like about this weapon set is Flanking strike… its just too slow and the second hit misses the majority of times, i know it has been “improved” by adding more utility to it but that was not its problem… its the “casting time” for the second hit that is the issue…
reduce its dmg is you want but make it faster… atm its a waist if init since we use it ONLY to remove one boon from the opponent and not for its dmg since it very rarely lands.

2) Pets/Clones/Phantoms chasing ppl wile in stealth… is this intended?! if not pls fix it. Wile you are at it pls fix channeled abilities homing on stealthed players… unless it is intended, if so pls tell us that it is!

3) AWESOME job! im loving every minute of your game!

NightyNight.1823:

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.

Yes , it is story telling.Some numbers on some screenshot doesn’t prove a thing.I could sit in place , let myself killed by some random guy ,then show the numbers , ohh Warrior is so OP.Thieves are fine , no ones having problems in sPvP or tPvP whit them.All the complaints come from idiots whit 0 experience in WvW.

You can skew anything to look like it is something else if you present the evidence that is in your favor. That is a no brainer. That does not mean that there isn’t a problem. Btw, if thieves are ‘fine’ then why is there an entire developer made thread setup for people to talk about how they are not fine? They don’t need nerfing imo but some pretty good tweaking is in order.

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.

Yes , it is story telling.Some numbers on some screenshot doesn’t prove a thing.I could sit in place , let myself killed by some random guy ,then show the numbers , ohh Warrior is so OP.Thieves are fine , no ones having problems in sPvP or tPvP whit them.All the complaints come from idiots whit 0 experience in WvW.

You can skew anything to look like it is something else if you present the evidence that is in your favor. That is a no brainer. That does not mean that there isn’t a problem. Btw, if thieves are ‘fine’ then why is there an entire developer made thread setup for people to talk about how they are not fine? They don’t need nerfing imo but some pretty good tweaking is in order.

This tread exists only because of the ammount of whiners that don’t know how to play.Doesn’t mean thief actualy needs tweaking.If anything thief needs some improvements because on a proffesional level Thief doesn’t perform as good as some other classes.But I realy don’t expect you to see beyond a ridiculously bad build and WvW.
95% of you whiners never even brought a valid argument to any of your complaints , only shown some Screenshots whit numbers that don’t prove A SINGLE THING.

Raise time between invis, now you have a 5 sec debuff, change it to 7-8 sec, thief fixed.

NightyNight.1823:

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.

Yes , it is story telling.Some numbers on some screenshot doesn’t prove a thing.I could sit in place , let myself killed by some random guy ,then show the numbers , ohh Warrior is so OP.Thieves are fine , no ones having problems in sPvP or tPvP whit them.All the complaints come from idiots whit 0 experience in WvW.

You can skew anything to look like it is something else if you present the evidence that is in your favor. That is a no brainer. That does not mean that there isn’t a problem. Btw, if thieves are ‘fine’ then why is there an entire developer made thread setup for people to talk about how they are not fine? They don’t need nerfing imo but some pretty good tweaking is in order.

This tread exists only because of the ammount of whiners that don’t know how to play.Doesn’t mean thief actualy needs tweaking.If anything thief needs some improvements because on a proffesional level Thief doesn’t perform as good as some other classes.But I realy don’t expect you to see beyond a ridiculously bad build and WvW.
95% of you whiners never even brought a valid argument to any of your complaints , only shown some Screenshots whit numbers that don’t prove A SINGLE THING.

Constructive. People will not take you seriously if you constantly belittle people with opinions. There are ‘whiners’ and there are people with valid complaints.

And…Professional level? What? Give me a break. Don’t take yourself so seriously.

urdriel.8496:

Raise time between invis, now you have a 5 sec debuff, change it to 7-8 sec, thief fixed.

Fist, the “reveled” condition lasts 3 seconds not 5 (whitch shows how much you know about the thief profession) and second if this condition cd is to be increased then the thieves base HP and thoughness need to me raised as well since stealth is the thieves main defense.

The stealth bug of course hurts PVP badly, but thats more of a bug to be fixed than anything else.

As for the thiefs OP state, its not really going to be fixed (fixed as in balanced)

The way I see it its going to one of two ways.

1. Little or no change, in which case thieves will continue to be VERY powerful against every other class.

Or

2. The thief gets nerfed into nothingness. Rendering it a stupid class to play as.

The reason those are the only two possible ways for this to go is simple, the thief as a concept is broken. No other class can spam abilities like a thief can. The initiative system is what is broken. its simply not meant for this game. If other classes had mana and energy (whatever resource you wanted to call it) then it could be balanced, but changing a game to fix a class would be rather extreme.

Just consider any other class that has access to a spammable attack system. Imagine 100b over and over again, and it homed into the target, it would be nightmarish. Same with any other class. Engie chaining 3 rifle blast (no 3) would be stupidly powerful as well.

The problem is the class just doesnt work in this regard. Every other class has cooldowns to work in, thief has none.

This is for PVP mind, PVE is a different story.

DaliIndica.9041:

The initiative system is what is broken. its simply not meant for this game. If other classes had mana and energy (whatever resource you wanted to call it) then it could be balanced, but changing a game to fix a class would be rather extreme.

I think the initiative system is fine.

I would love it if they implemented an “initiative type” system for all the rest of the classes. I have a harder time playing others because of the individual timers.

Concerning PvP:

Let us capture points in stealth please. We can still easily be hit by abilities so I’m not sure I understand why it would be a problem. Also, I would like a Trait that allows a Thief to remove his name from view of the enemy so we can actually hide behind objects and flank more efficiently. Neither of these suggestions directly mess with our damage output but rather build unique and cohesive abilities that players would expect from a Thief. Thanks for the consideration Anet.

Volrath.1473:

urdriel.8496:

Raise time between invis, now you have a 5 sec debuff, change it to 7-8 sec, thief fixed.

Fist, the “reveled” condition lasts 3 seconds not 5 (whitch shows how much you know about the thief profession) and second if this condition cd is to be increased then the thieves base HP and thoughness need to me raised as well since stealth is the thieves main defense.

No it isn’t, but I agree that if revealed is going to increase from 3 seconds then thieves will need to be overhauled with offense/defense retuned to suit the new duration.

I don’t think that people like urdriel suggesting these changes really understand how they’d affect thief build dynamics. A revealed duration increase would weaken more conservative options like using stealth offensively to daze or apply conditions as with sword and pistol main-hands, respectively. As a result, more thieves would be pushed into backstab “assassin” style play wherein being able to repeatedly stealth isn’t as important as simply downing your target in 2-3 seconds.

NightyNight.1823:

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

Bastionhawk.7120:

NightyNight.1823:

The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.

Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.

Yes , it is story telling.Some numbers on some screenshot doesn’t prove a thing.I could sit in place , let myself killed by some random guy ,then show the numbers , ohh Warrior is so OP.Thieves are fine , no ones having problems in sPvP or tPvP whit them.All the complaints come from idiots whit 0 experience in WvW.

You can skew anything to look like it is something else if you present the evidence that is in your favor. That is a no brainer. That does not mean that there isn’t a problem. Btw, if thieves are ‘fine’ then why is there an entire developer made thread setup for people to talk about how they are not fine? They don’t need nerfing imo but some pretty good tweaking is in order.

This tread exists only because of the ammount of whiners that don’t know how to play.Doesn’t mean thief actualy needs tweaking.If anything thief needs some improvements because on a proffesional level Thief doesn’t perform as good as some other classes.But I realy don’t expect you to see beyond a ridiculously bad build and WvW.
95% of you whiners never even brought a valid argument to any of your complaints , only shown some Screenshots whit numbers that don’t prove A SINGLE THING.

Actually, people are bringing up some very valid points. While you don’t have to agree with them, they are there.
Lets take a look at a few things that a lot of people are seeing as a problem:

Stealth – by itself, not completely crazy; but when you add the fact that it can increase ini gain, and give better regen than a lot of classes, you start to see it gain a lot more power. The culling/rendering is also a factor to consider into stealth. One thing that A few of us were talking about earlier in game, was the fact that the “revealed” debuff really isn’t doing it’s job. We have been noticing that some builds are basically by passing this, hence the permanent stealth appearance, or at least like the P/D condition build, attack, disappear, rinse/repeat . Basically it comes down to Stealth having way too much synergy with itself.

Burst damage – Yup, thief is suppose to have good burst dps. Ok, burst should not mean 100% to 15%-10% in one preloaded keybind. Steal+CnD+BS = free kill. There is no setup from might, or other build ups, it’s hit 3 attacks to win. Now, each one of these three attacks don’t seem too bad on their own, but being able to front load them all we quickly see where the problem comes from. Mug is pretty low on the trait table, and does some amazing damage. CnD also can do solid damage, which also gives stealth, and can add vulnerability to the target. Finally we get to back stab, for all intense purposes, it should be the big hitter. Though it should not completely end most fights if it lands. It also should not be setup so easily. Heck, thieves even have abilities that already put you right behind your target.

PvP types – sPvP/tPvP, pretty sure they still have a rather strong showing there. While the culling and rendering may not give them as much of an advantage due to smaller scale combat, they still bring a lot to the table. Especially in mobility side of things.
- WvW, yeah, this is where a lot of the complaints come from, rendering/culling gives them a major advantage. They also have very large open spaces where they can easily capitalize on with their mobility. It seems that Thieves are becoming a lot more common now. Earlier when I was defending a tower, and running supply, I noticed 7 of 10 players running by to attack my tower where thieves.

While I don’t want to see the class made useless, they certainly need to tone down some of their burst, and mobility to prevent them from being able to come and go as they please. They should have to relay on team work just like other classes.
Lastly, and this is just more of a pet peeve, it’s spelled “with”, not “whit”.

I have a really simple solution for the people that seem to have rage all over thieves or anything else that they find challenging.

I propose a difficulty adjuster, so if you encounter an enemy, whether player or npc, you can just adjust it to easy and finish the fight in sweatless style. Getting frustrated with a jumping puzzle? Easy button and there is a path straight to the end! Levelling? Bah, easy button bumps you to 80 while you leisurely enjoy a cup of camomile tea. You too can remove any challenge in GW2 with the easy button!

Personally, I feel that thieves need a small buff you health. Aside from that maybe a small buff to Tactical Strikes damage; in PvE if nothing else. I mean it is a SWORD being shoved into the target after all. So why is it next to useless for stealth primary builds, when any assault type builds just aren’t viable do to survivability issues?

I’m not saying give Thieves a huge buff to health; maybe add 2-3 thousand to base health maybe a bit more. Stealth is great but it won’t save you when EVERYTHING in the game is to punishing to melee classes.

Tactical Strike just needs a small buff and it becomes viable, with no real gear progression at 80. Aside from ascended and MAYBE legendary gear (if they give us ways to get legendary armor [I think that would be cool]) play style is probably one of the most important things in the game. Shouldn’t I be able to play thief the way I want to play it as long as I’m not trying to play something outside of the base class philosophy?

I personally would like to see thieves get rifles. Snipers are after all meant to sneak around and shoot people without being seen. But this seems to be something that people don’t thing fits. But really that’s an other matter entirely.

XII.9401:

I’m sorry but your discussion is kinda..wrong. And no..my stats are not glass canon. And no..I didn’t win that encounter.

As for people who keep posting L2p and troll more etc.. I thank you..this will only bump the thread up and demonstrate the mentality of players abusing a broken class.

I will keep providing evidence in pics and videos. Everyone who isn’t a thief experiences it. I simply show proof. I encourage everyone to take snapshots of the damage and show it here otherwise the broken class will never get fixed.

As for people who say L2count..I suggest the non-theif players pop that video and count the seconds between stealths.

If you don’t state your opinion and complaints in this game you will keep getting trolled by thieves.

Why does every other class have to equip AOE and spam it hoping it lands when fighting a thief while we aren’t forced to do that with every other class? Its easy for a thief to avoid AOEs since they SEE them while we can’t see the thief coming.
So our defense is to play whack the invisible mole?

That sounds like broken mechanics. The majority have spoken. If people thought the thief class was ok..this thread wouldn’t be this long.

From what I remember of this Pic you showed, at the bottom of the combat log you hit someone with your rock, then gained XP…so I assume you rallied. Now either you used vengeance and didn’t manage to kill him, or he killed you afterwords and that XP was from killing someone else. Either way, you were outplayed by a better player. 20k HP on a warrior is pretty glass cannon. I’m sorry. You might have a few points in vit, but for the most part, your stats are located elsewhere (we have just your word that your toughness is through the roof).

As for us bumping this thread, you are not the cause of this. The mods are merging EVERY complaint thread into this one. Notice how clean the Thief forums are getting? There is a reason why so many people are posting here, and it might not be because they are replying to this thread.

Pic are not proof. They can be altered by someone with little to no skill. Vids are better, but if you are going to post a vid, make sure you capture the whole encounter, and don’t turn the camera away every few seconds. That vid that was shown of two P/D thieves going into stealth was laughable. Half the time the thief destealthed outside your view, or just on the edge, and this time was still counted as “in stealth”.

As for AoE being easy to avoid, I can think of plenty of classes with AoE that doesn’t show a red circle on the ground (PBAoE).

I don’t think you have the right to say the majority have spoken either. I suggest you play a Thief first, then come back and tell us of your experiences (better yet, make a vid of it and upload it for us). But make sure when you present this “proof” that it will be able to hold up.

Actually, people are bringing up some very valid points. While you don’t have to agree with them, they are there.
Lets take a look at a few things that a lot of people are seeing as a problem:

Stealth – by itself, not completely crazy; but when you add the fact that it can increase ini gain, and give better regen than a lot of classes, you start to see it gain a lot more power. The culling/rendering is also a factor to consider into stealth. One thing that A few of us were talking about earlier in game, was the fact that the “revealed” debuff really isn’t doing it’s job. We have been noticing that some builds are basically by passing this, hence the permanent stealth appearance, or at least like the P/D condition build, attack, disappear, rinse/repeat . Basically it comes down to Stealth having way too much synergy with itself.

Burst damage – Yup, thief is suppose to have good burst dps. Ok, burst should not mean 100% to 15%-10% in one preloaded keybind. Steal+CnD+BS = free kill. There is no setup from might, or other build ups, it’s hit 3 attacks to win. Now, each one of these three attacks don’t seem too bad on their own, but being able to front load them all we quickly see where the problem comes from. Mug is pretty low on the trait table, and does some amazing damage. CnD also can do solid damage, which also gives stealth, and can add vulnerability to the target. Finally we get to back stab, for all intense purposes, it should be the big hitter. Though it should not completely end most fights if it lands. It also should not be setup so easily. Heck, thieves even have abilities that already put you right behind your target.

PvP types – sPvP/tPvP, pretty sure they still have a rather strong showing there. While the culling and rendering may not give them as much of an advantage due to smaller scale combat, they still bring a lot to the table. Especially in mobility side of things.
- WvW, yeah, this is where a lot of the complaints come from, rendering/culling gives them a major advantage. They also have very large open spaces where they can easily capitalize on with their mobility. It seems that Thieves are becoming a lot more common now. Earlier when I was defending a tower, and running supply, I noticed 7 of 10 players running by to attack my tower where thieves.

While I don’t want to see the class made useless, they certainly need to tone down some of their burst, and mobility to prevent them from being able to come and go as they please. They should have to relay on team work just like other classes.
Lastly, and this is just more of a pet peeve, it’s spelled “with”, not “whit”.

What exacly is their ‘’VALID POINT’‘?’Some screenshots whit some damage, In WvW? If I bring you a screen shot whit kill shot 33k now Warriors are OP?
Everyone can do high numbers, its about dealing them and how they can be countered.Some screens whit some thief killing you doesn’t prove a thing other than you getting killed because you did nothing to defend yourself.
And BS build is hardly viable in tPvP.That build will never work on someone whose actualy using brain.3 hits combo its so obvious ,too stupidly easy to counter.Its a bad build for 1v1 ,only good for killing the large mass of stupid.
That build is so defenceless against most cases its pathetic.Try killing a necro whit 3 health bars, a guardian, a warrior whit 30k HP, an elementalist you know , the kind of elementalist everyone plays .Its never possible.So to come here and request to nerf already a bad build its just insane.

I main thief myself we bring nothing more then dps. We can’t tank as guardians or support as elemental. We are raw dps class with high mobility.

There is a demographic at play here and that is that rogue type classes attract more Nostromo and Naga users per capita than anything else… reason is to get them right you have to twitch.

Healing classes are for chicks or lads who want to meet/be chicks and tanky types are almost always blokes with goatees.

My tongue may be in my cheek… but there is fire in the smoke. The thief class has chewed a few 50% damage reduction nerfs already and still the tears flow. They will flow after the next round. If it ever gets nerfed hard enough to move this crowd onto mesmers the river of tears will simply drown the lands. My ranger (which is a well-geared level 80 WvW / PvP toon) treats GC thieves as food and walks away from condition thieves (stalemate). And in high level PvP I simply do not see any. PvP is the best test of balance and power.

This game unfortunately pits the best of the FPS twitch community against the non RvR / PvP / WvW community and of course there will be shock and horror at the inhumanity of it all.

Faeyd.5094:

There is a demographic at play here and that is that rogue type classes attract more Nostromo and Naga users per capita than anything else… reason is to get them right you have to twitch.

Healing classes are for chicks or lads who want to meet/be chicks and tanky types are almost always blokes with goatees.

My tongue may be in my cheek… but there is fire in the smoke. The thief class has chewed a few 50% damage reduction nerfs already and still the tears flow. They will flow after the next round. If it ever gets nerfed hard enough to move this crowd onto mesmers the river of tears will simply drown the lands. My ranger (which is a well-geared level 80 WvW / PvP toon) treats GC thieves as food and walks away from condition thieves (stalemate). And in high level PvP I simply do not see any. PvP is the best test of balance and power.

This game unfortunately pits the best of the FPS twitch community against the non RvR / PvP / WvW community and of course there will be shock and horror at the inhumanity of it all.

The “rogue” type classes always generate the most hate. I’m 99% certain that if the thief were to get nerfed to the point where each hit could deal no more then 100 damage, we would still see posts like “Nerf thieves, they are impossible to kill because they never leave stealth” (no point right, since we could only kill people near death at that point anyway). Stealth = OP in most games, at least in the minds of the players not playing a stealth class.

I think most people posting here though have no clue how the thief in this game actually works. Some of these suggestions are a little ridiculous. Lets take the revealed lasts 2 seconds longer (seems to be a favorite). This wouldn’t change BS builds as much (since according to these forums the BS thief kills everyone in under 2 seconds), but it would destroy the other stealth reliant builds (P/D and S/D). 2 seconds = 40% less stealth attacks (assuming you are stealthing on CD). So before suggesting things, please think of how it will affect other thief builds.

Wilow.3061:

Faeyd.5094:

There is a demographic at play here and that is that rogue type classes attract more Nostromo and Naga users per capita than anything else… reason is to get them right you have to twitch.

Healing classes are for chicks or lads who want to meet/be chicks and tanky types are almost always blokes with goatees.

My tongue may be in my cheek… but there is fire in the smoke. The thief class has chewed a few 50% damage reduction nerfs already and still the tears flow. They will flow after the next round. If it ever gets nerfed hard enough to move this crowd onto mesmers the river of tears will simply drown the lands. My ranger (which is a well-geared level 80 WvW / PvP toon) treats GC thieves as food and walks away from condition thieves (stalemate). And in high level PvP I simply do not see any. PvP is the best test of balance and power.

This game unfortunately pits the best of the FPS twitch community against the non RvR / PvP / WvW community and of course there will be shock and horror at the inhumanity of it all.

The “rogue” type classes always generate the most hate. I’m 99% certain that if the thief were to get nerfed to the point where each hit could deal no more then 100 damage, we would still see posts like “Nerf thieves, they are impossible to kill because they never leave stealth” (no point right, since we could only kill people near death at that point anyway). Stealth = OP in most games, at least in the minds of the players not playing a stealth class.

I think most people posting here though have no clue how the thief in this game actually works. Some of these suggestions are a little ridiculous. Lets take the revealed lasts 2 seconds longer (seems to be a favorite). This wouldn’t change BS builds as much (since according to these forums the BS thief kills everyone in under 2 seconds), but it would destroy the other stealth reliant builds (P/D and S/D). 2 seconds = 40% less stealth attacks (assuming you are stealthing on CD). So before suggesting things, please think of how it will affect other thief builds.

I wouldn’t mind if the stealth aspect of P/D was toned down a notch, as long as they’re compensated with a buff in damage output.

Korrtz.3510:

I have a really simple solution for the people that seem to have rage all over thieves or anything else that they find challenging.

I propose a difficulty adjuster, so if you encounter an enemy, whether player or npc, you can just adjust it to easy and finish the fight in sweatless style. Getting frustrated with a jumping puzzle? Easy button and there is a path straight to the end! Levelling? Bah, easy button bumps you to 80 while you leisurely enjoy a cup of camomile tea. You too can remove any challenge in GW2 with the easy button!

I wonder if you are a thief talking about ‘easy buttons’. That would be interesting.

NightyNight.1823:

What exacly is their ‘’VALID POINT’‘?’Some screenshots whit some damage, In WvW? If I bring you a screen shot whit kill shot 33k now Warriors are OP?
Everyone can do high numbers, its about dealing them and how they can be countered.Some screens whit some thief killing you doesn’t prove a thing other than you getting killed because you did nothing to defend yourself.
And BS build is hardly viable in tPvP.That build will never work on someone whose actualy using brain.3 hits combo its so obvious ,too stupidly easy to counter.Its a bad build for 1v1 ,only good for killing the large mass of stupid.
That build is so defenceless against most cases its pathetic.Try killing a necro whit 3 health bars, a guardian, a warrior whit 30k HP, an elementalist you know , the kind of elementalist everyone plays .Its never possible.So to come here and request to nerf already a bad build its just insane.

You are far to biased to have a discussion with about this. Thieves could have a one hit one kill button and you’d probably still think there was nothing wrong. Try looking at these issues from the outside and be objective. I think it is you that needs to use your brain a little bit. Also – what valid proof are you looking for? Osaliske laid out some pretty good points. I think you might not have the ability to defend your own case. It is easier to discredit everyone else rather than formulate your own defense isn’t it?

spvp/tpvp : i think HS does a little too much damage above 50%, hence everyone spam HS(+haste often) to kill. i don’t like spamming skills with thief and i would prefer something that discourage spamming HS but still make it competitive.
and i would like some kind of revamp on #3 d/p .

Bastionhawk.7120:

I wonder if you are a thief talking about ‘easy buttons’. That would be interesting.

Really?

Thank you for providing such a perfect reply to my post. Completely removing any sort of personal responsibility and placing the fun of the game, or lack thereof, entirely on the shoulders of a single class you feel plays the game in an unfair way.

And yes, I play a thief. But also a mesmer, guardian, and elementalist, but please, continue to throw excrement like a child and avoid having to rise to any sort of challenge presented by the game.

You may think your post was in jest, but it still proves my point beautifully. You feel cheated and feel the the thief class should be handicapped. In order to improve your gaming experience you are calling for someone else’s to be reduced, how noble of you.

" Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters. "

Said by:
JonathanSharp
Game Designer

On the update notes the 14th (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012)

Seems to me they are working as intended

Bastionhawk.7120:

Korrtz.3510:

Bastionhawk.7120:

I wonder if you are a thief talking about ‘easy buttons’. That would be interesting.

Really?

Thank you for providing such a perfect reply to my post. Completely removing any sort of personal responsibility and placing the fun of the game, or lack thereof, entirely on the shoulders of a single class you feel plays the game in an unfair way.

And yes, I play a thief. But also a mesmer, guardian, and elementalist, but please, continue to throw excrement like a child and avoid having to rise to any sort of challenge presented by the game.

You may think your post was in jest, but it still proves my point beautifully. You feel cheated and feel the the thief class should be handicapped. In order to improve your gaming experience you are calling for someone else’s to be reduced, how noble of you.

Hyper-defensive as you are, I still got a nice laugh out of your severity. You take yourself and this class too seriously. Facts are facts. The class needs tweaking.

Tweaking yes, every class still needs tweaking. But many of the people attacking thieves are calling for flat out nerfs (ala 50% less damage on abilities). I would be up for abilities doing less damage, but they need to compensate us with something. So far, the balance has been a little one sided, making some abilities flat out not worth using…ever. When a nerf to an ability makes that ability not usable, you go too far.

As for facts are facts, yes, I guess I can’t argue with you there. I still haven’t seen any “facts” in this thread though. I’m sure if you really wanted you could have fraps or something running with your hero window up, and show us something that is broken backed up with your ability (aka not staying still afk, or in the middle of frenzy, or wearing your zerker gear then claiming you have 3k+ toughness with 25k+ health afterwords). Many posters are saying all the see in PvP (they probably mean WvW) are pacts of thieves, so such a video shouldn’t take too long to produce. Just exit your starting area and you are bound to be waylayed by a group of perma stealthed thieves waiting for meat.